Thank you for participating in our online poll.

Click here to see our previous polls, or go to your main page.

Poll: What do you think is the single biggest factor that contributes to road accidents in Ireland?

* Please note that the results of the online poll represent just a snapshot of opinion from the site members who participate. The results of each poll do not necessarily represent the national picture. Participants are only allowed to vote once in each poll.

Anonymous   Posted: 03/07/2006 22:44

people think their invincible, or simply people just don't think.(nothing's ever gonna happen to me attitude)

fifi  Posted: 04/07/2006 12:06

Young male drivers on the road. Also foreign drivers. Looks at the statistics.

Anonymous   Posted: 04/07/2006 12:56

Fifi, I agree - so many fatal accidents seem to involve young male drivers. While drink may be involved, I reckon it's more the thrill of speed, ending in the car going out of control.

fifi  Posted: 04/07/2006 14:25

Absolutely Anon. I hate painting all the young male drivers with the one brush but facts speak for themselves. Really, there should be no male drivers allowed on our roads under the age of 25. Only then do they start to have some cop-on.

Charlotte  Posted: 04/07/2006 16:53

I agree fully with Fifi that young males should be 23-25 before being allowed to drive. This is a pure and utter unnessary slaughter of our young people. We have to do something fast. I can't stand it anymore.

Rob  Posted: 05/07/2006 08:34

I have to agree with some of the writings on this topic and others on this site dealing with death on the roads. Just listening to the news it is obvious that most of the serious accidents are single car,late at night, young healthy males. Speed cameras on dual carriagways would not have prevented them. A lot of serious accidents are due to inexperience, drivers not realising what a tenuious grip their car has on the road at high speed. Advice from their instructor driver (certified or not) will not replace experience. Our politicians are wringing their hands and vowing they will bring the speeding, drinking drivers to heel with penelty points etc. and nothing improves. I do not claim to have the answers no more than the experts do. A different approach is required, young drivers need to be brought to a track where they can have a skid and survive to learn, wrecked cars could be kept all around this track to let them see what happens to their shiney pride and joy after an accident. Our gardai should have portable cameras that can be placed on country roads with the observing garda a few hundred meters along in a safe place ready to stop an erring driver, as a result the gardai would have video evidence. Garda overtime would be best spent during the night instead to standing around in groups of two or three in the daytime in shopping malls, or lining the road when ministers are moving amoung their subjects. Excuse the rant re the cops they just never seem to be where they are most needed. I have 43 years driving, most of this in a professional capacity, and I have seen some strange chances taken on the road by drivers (not all young)who obviously have no regard for other drivers, and think they are invincable, you would think they were playing a video game, this is probably part of the problem we are dealing with the video generation.

Maggie  Posted: 06/07/2006 09:27

I think nit's unrealistic to expect any male (or female) nhever to sit behind the wheel of acar until they're 25. However, I think Rob has a lot of good points in relaiton to training and how to handle cars in an emergency situation

Dublindude(TCW48979)  Posted: 06/07/2006 13:14

It would be considered sexual descrimination to allow young female drivers to drive from 18 and males not until 25 . Its also socially impossible . The small number of male drivers who do drive dangerously should be dealt with by the law and educated rather than a blanket ban on all people based on their sex.

Anonymous   Posted: 06/07/2006 14:26

I dont want to sound ageist or anything of the sort but I do believe that people over a certain age(perhaps 70) should have to take another form driving test or assessment as I know of many near accidents caused with relation to elderly people pulling out on to roundabouts and major roads at very slow speeds. Im not saying its all people of this age causing the accidents but age is certainly a factor in reaction times and sometimes driving too slowly is just as dangerous as driving too fast!

grainne(IBT11981)  Posted: 06/07/2006 17:11

Its speed thats causing all the carnage on our roads esp. by young people. while I dont think young people shouldnt drive I do think their cars should be fixed so they cant go over a certain speed till they get more experience.When you pass your test in nth. Ireland you must replace L plate with an R plate it means you are a restricted driver I dont know for how long surely anything is worth a try if it might reduce the accidents.

trixiebelle  Posted: 06/07/2006 18:20

Any bad experience I have had over the years is Arrogant middle aged men driving their big cars on country roads thinking they own the road, overtaking long lines of traffic, with little distance between vehicles. Also another group of drivers that cause so many problems are indecisive drivers. ps just bacause you have a full drivers licence does not make you a God on the road and exempt from any criticism.

Blondie  Posted: 06/07/2006 18:25

I'd get over older people getting killed on the roads. Sorry but you are on your way out anyway! But the young fellow of 19 or 20 is just starting out. Think of all the young women who won't be able to drool over him or all the children that he won't produce in the future. Parents delighted after getting them this far only to have it all come crashing down. I wish young fellows could just stop and think for a few moments every time they sit into the car.

LifeHandle  Posted: 06/07/2006 18:35

I think there should be a psychometric test to assess if they have the mindset to take the responsibility to drive seriously. In that way you catch the men and women of all ages who really should not be allowed to drive. People view it as a right and forget about the responsibility. It has also been shown that the more safety features you put into a car, the more risks people seem willing to take. This has been shown with a recent survey of SUV drivers who know that because their vehicles are bigger, they corresspondingly take more risks. The idea regarding the track days by an earlier contributer is good. I motor-race myself and there is a HUGE difference between experienced driver and non-experienced drivers. What we haven't mentioned in the survey is drugs and driving. This is a far more serious issue that people realise, and I think anybody involved in any accident should be blood tested to determine if they were in their full senses at the time.

Anonymous   Posted: 06/07/2006 18:45

I think it is typical if the Irish to be in denial of the the drink driving problem we still have here in Ireland, look at every pub carpark in the country at 11pm and count the cars. Now tell me they are all drinking soft drinks! The statistics show most accidents are in the early hours and are single vehicle accidents and from drink driving. Thats the facts - speed when sober and an experienced driver is perfectly acceptable on motorways and straight roads.

gallion  Posted: 06/07/2006 19:04

Same old story over and over again, blame the youg male drivers!! It is not the young male drivers that are at fault, it is the state's policy on road traffic laws and gardai revenue generating practices. For example 1. Why is it that any individual on a provisional lic. can go do a driving test, fail, and walk out and drive home!! and continue to drive on the roads. 2. How is it that a 17 year old driver can sit into a car above 1000cc with no driving experience. 3.Why are the gardai doing speed checks during the day when majority of accidents happen at night. 4. Why are gardai doing speed checks on soft target areas like dual catriageways & motorways. 5. Why cant speed restrictors be installed compulsory on all provisional driver cars. I could go on and on with statements like this all day, we are supposed to have road safety experts in this country(me arse)it dosent take an expert to do the obvious.

Mary(IBK17340)  Posted: 06/07/2006 19:37

Drink Drink Drink and overtiredness Pity the guards are not outside pubs every night as many peoples lives would be saved

Maria(XYK26706)  Posted: 06/07/2006 20:10

a test that fails nearly half that take it and then lets them drive away! This encourages drivers to never get their full licence. Have a test that is practical and realistic and helps people get their full licence and then crack down on those who don't.

Anonymous   Posted: 06/07/2006 20:47

I am astonished at the response of my fellow countrymen. How sad is it when people use a speed as a scapegoat for the carnage on our road. Poor driving skills clearly is the biggest issue at hand. I think 75% of the people driving cars have no right to be on the road. This is coming from a young driver with an advanced license btw. Drivers failing to use their mirrors when they, should, driving with one hand on the steering wheel, smoking or using the mobile while driving. Let not forget about the full license holders in this country who never sat a test. What kind of an example does that set. It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest if some of the examiners, belong to that elite, who never took the test. Yet these very same people will decide if you are worthy to drive on our poorly designed, poor mantained and ill concieved road. After this drink comes into play as the next big factor. One of the biggest factors involved in this debactle is older drivers, who think they know better. These drivers are over confident in their abilities and skills, and assume because they are such great driver, they are okay to drive after a few lager.

arthur  Posted: 06/07/2006 20:47

young adults, who are hyper competitive at getting ahead on the road - male and female. They do not realise that stopping the car may be more difficult at high speeds and in wet weather conditions. They show intolerance towards those who heed the speed limits therefore they are guilty of general disobedience of the legal speed limits. I see it every day.

Rosaleen(garrybutler)  Posted: 06/07/2006 21:24

Every driver, every day, witnesses incidents of speeding, dangerous overtaking and sheer stupidity but there are never any gardi in sight. Secondary roads are by far the worst yet what few gardi there are, are usually to be found on dual carraigways and motorways.

Roisin  Posted: 06/07/2006 21:27

Sorry folks I have to say I have seen some reckless speeding by young women also. More and more they are becoming just as aggressive as young males.

Pat(myvore)  Posted: 06/07/2006 21:42

suggesting male drivers should not be allowed to drive is simply stupid. sorry if that sounds rude, i don't mean for it to sound so, but clearly no thought has gone into making such a statement. i imagine those making this suggestion live in larger cities with masses of subsidised public transport to hop on and of with ease. young males in rural areas and the smaller towns around ireland have often no option but to drive as soon as they leave school, if they want a decent job they do for sure. your ban on males under 25 would return them to the good old days of being on the dole and standing about annoying the very people spouting such rubbish. good lord, will common sense ever prevail in ireland in the 21st century? yes, young drivers are involved in car crashes late at night, or early in the morning to be accurate. why? because numerically that's the age group that is on the roads at that hour. it is long past the time to stop making scapegoats of various groups and shine the light where it belongs, at the damned, innefective politicians we repeatedly inflict upon ourselves election after election. the main cause of traffic mayhem and chaos on our roads is the failure to properly legislate for effective traffic control and to provide the gardai with the numbers, and the proper tools to do the job of enforcement. drink driving is a large contributing factor in the road death toll, no one would suggest otherwise. can anyone recall when the drink driving laws were introduced? doubt it, but however long it is, and it is a long time now, drunken drivers are still having charges dismissed by aged judges who are more interested in the letter of the law than common justice. shame, shame shame on our system where loopholes still exist 25 years on, it's a disgrace, pure and simple. who finds these loopholes? not 25 year old males who need a car to just earn a living, the drunken drivers are facilitated in using, and abusing, loopholes by 50y/old barristers, who find these loopholes to help themselves escape paying the price. get off the backs of our young people and climb all over the wasters we have in dail eireann.

Charlie  Posted: 06/07/2006 22:20

Do insurance companies give drivers a reduction on their insurance when they take driving instruction from a licensed instructor. Lets face it young drivers drive more kilometres/miles than their aged friends. So statistics may be misleading !.

mrspock  Posted: 06/07/2006 23:19

when are they going to stop the young male drivers from speeding? all they have to do is stop them stop them now.

Stoner  Posted: 06/07/2006 23:35

People go to school to become lawyers etc and it could take 18 years or more. How the hell can people expect to learn to drive after a few lessons. I'm 42 and i started to learn when i was 14. And i know for a fact because i'm telling you, that even when i was 25 i still had a lot to learn. And i'm still learning today. I'm no lawyer. But you will agree when i say that knowledge is power and if people knew what they were doing how could they let these accidents happen. An advanced driving instructor in the uk once said "Accidents don't just happen, People let them happen" I recon people dont just let accidents happen, I think they are too young, too old, too careless, inconsiderate... the list goes on. If we can teach our children to survive in society today, Then we can teach them to drive. As for the here and now, Please.....Please stand up and walk over to a mirror. YOU are the only person who can help this situation. PEOPLE MATTER! YOU MATTER. SAVE A LIFE.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 07/07/2006 01:04

idiots who are allowed on the roads, without any whatsoever exam being passed in relation to to the safe method of driving. pass or fail, do a test before you go on the road. there are a lot of people about who think that they are invincible, they are responsible for most of the preventible accidents,

Hoolie  Posted: 07/07/2006 07:03

Speed combined with very poor roads in my part of the country (Sligo/Leitrim/Donegal) is a major contributing factor. As part of my job I drive around this area and continue to be astounded by drivers who clearly have no regard for their own lives, never mind others. Also witness drivers who have no idea about rules of the road and attempting to negotiate junctions in the wrong lanes - age has no bearing on this because it seems all sorts are ignorant. Finally again, totally agree about the dangers of mobile phones - they are deadly when used in a moving vehicle and guess what yesterday I witnessed an off duty member of the Gardai deept in conversation on one as he sped by me - he was laughing a lot and was in his own car, so it obviously was not a duty call!

Anonymous   Posted: 07/07/2006 08:48

I cannot believe how many people voted for speed in this poll. Obviously the government’s lazy, simplistic attitude is diverting attention away from the root causes with their current campaign with a few catchy slogans (“get the point, not the points”, “heed your speed, arrive alive”) and this simplistic message is pulling the wool over many peoples' eyes. It’s not speed per se that is the prime cause of our horrific road deaths, but a combination of 1. Speeding in the wrong places. 2. Performing overtaking and other manoeuvres when it's not safe to do so 3. Poor judgement by overconfident, careless, impatient and/or inattentive drivers. 4. Lack of proper enforcement, leading to casual attitudes and more risk-taking. 5. Poor roads, limited maintenance or continual improvements. 6. Driving while under the influence of drugs (including alcohol). The root cause, in my opinion, is lack of adequate training mixed with lack of enforcement. This leads to poor judgement from a large percentage of road users, and no incentive to continually improve ones driving abilities as you gain experience. Add in the large number of dangerous poorly maintained roads (http://www.nra.ie/PublicationsResources/DownloadableDocumentation/RoadSafety/file,1403,en.PDF - see pages 5 & 6); The government is well aware that it would cost many millions to sort out the roads and provide proper driver education. They would lose popularity if they insisted on age limits (younger or older) for driving. They would lose popularity with the voters if they brought in continual assessment. Also the economy would be negatively effected if too many drivers were put off the roads. They cannot remove provisional drivers from the roads due to backlog of tests pending (yet another debacle due to lack of proper funding). There are still many thousands of drivers on our roads who were never given instruction or tested in the first place before getting their licences. We also have a percentage of immigrants who drive very dangerously and often don’t know how to use the roads correctly and are not required to take lessons. The Guards are unable to enforce the legislation we hear so much about. The court system is a joke and most drivers know the worst they will get is a slap on the wrist, maybe a fine and a few penalty points. The speed campaign is a whitewash to save money by diverting our attention from the real problems with our road system and the people who are unable or unwilling to use it responsibly. Also remember folks, there have always been, and will always be, high fatalities as long as we use motorised transport. Sad, but true.

Paul  Posted: 07/07/2006 09:30

I've seen a lot of poor driving on the road. Some by foreign national cars ( I cannot say the nationality of the driver, just the car ) and some by local cars. The quality of driving is far poorer here than, for example in the UK. And it's not just due to speed no matter what the news says. Here I have frequently seen drivers turn right at a two lane roundabout from the left hand lane, swap lanes to try to speed up their trip without looking for other cars, ignore box junctions, speed, drive erratically and I'm pretty certain a lot at night are drunk. Sadly it's not just the young male drivers doing it. The statistics also show that males drive more than females, so that needs factored in. The main reason for the accidents is poor driving quality and poor enforcement of the law. The traffic branch here is laughable in quantity and capability. They do not have the powers as the police in the UK for stopping people etc. Something serious needs done, not just a witch hunt on young males (and I'm now 35 so I'm not (sadly) a young male anymore).

Jo  Posted: 07/07/2006 09:38

I think young males are more likely to have a drink and drive and also i do not notice drug driving included inthe online poll which is why i voted for 'other' I think the drug drivin problem is overlooked because the Gardai and ministers cannot get it together to cope with the drink drivers to even thik about the numbers of people who are high on cocaine and ectasy amongst others while driving at high speed along dangerous stretchs of road at night time. Is there no such offince as Driving while on drugs?? Because I have never heard of anyone being charged for this??? Also I have seen speed vans on dublin roads which have a 50 km limit in the height of rush hour traffic but at 6 o clock they are gone where are they at night in a gara lock up somewhere!!! Time to get real the statistics speak for themselves.

Anonymous   Posted: 07/07/2006 09:46

Driving a car is one of the most dangerous things you can do. Some people forget this and become complacent, think nothing can or will happen to them until it is too late. I think young drivers drive too fast but have often seen older drivers overtaking while on the phone. Male drivers seem to overtake dangerously more often than female drivers in my experience. I think people should be encouraged to phone the gardai and report reckless driving.

Chana  Posted: 07/07/2006 10:00

Life handle who do you imagine should set this test and what questions do you think should be in it? Also how are you going to stop sample tests doing the rounds as happens with all psychometric tests. Anon "speed when sober and an experienced driver is perfectly acceptable on motorways and straight roads." - If thats a serious statement I think it's ludicrous. Sped is NEVER acceptable. What happens when some idiot pulls out in fron t of you or strays accross the road. No amount of expereicne can stop a speeding car inside 10 metres. Gallion has a point re: Garda revenue generating practises and soft target areas.

Dinnysj  Posted: 07/07/2006 10:04

Fair points by everybody. Personnaly i think with the amount of foregin nationals in this country i think there should be one communal drivers licence for all EU member states. I think this owuld be of great use because if a person is banned from driving in another country for dangerous driving, careless driving, drink driving, driving causing death or accidents then it would be known in other countrys. As the law stands at the moment anybody can apply for an Irish drivers licence and the may well have been a lunatic driver in their home country and could be banned for life. I think the Irish governement shoud know who they are issueing drivers licence to. I know it has been discussed about this but i believe it is not happening for another 6 or 7 years !! I am not by any means being racist in the above statement. I am being realistic and looking at the facts and statistics. Also regarding all young drivers, i do belive that they all think they are invisable on the roads and that "it won't happen to me attitude" kicks in once they get behind the wheel. Another fact with recent car fatalities is they are all in the early hours of the weekend mornings which suggests drink driving and they are mostly on country roads also. Bad potholes, windy roads, speed and drink .....no body stands a chance with that combination. Try improving the roads, it might make a small difference !

Anonymous   Posted: 07/07/2006 10:08

Let's have a bit of enforcement. We need a dedicated traffic corps. Attitudes also need to change.

Claire  Posted: 07/07/2006 10:17

Thank God for anonymous of the 6/7 for giving some real clarity to this discussion. Speed speed speed...that message is constantly banndied about and held up as the cause of all accidents. True statistics dont lie, young men are dying on the roads. But there is a bigger picture here...whom are they overtaking? why are they doing so in one ltr engine cars? Why are they waiting 52 wks to take a ten minute test? Afterwhich they can drive off home regardless of the result? What of the now penalty point offence of trucks in right hand lanes? Why arent drivers who choose to drive in a non progressive manner not pulled in? A driver doing 50 miles per hour in a 70 zone, 45 mph on a main primary road where other drivers are doing the regulation 60? These people are as much of a source of accidents as the young driver. It is convenient to say speed and moreover,it takes the impetus for action from the governments and gardai's hands and makes citizens responsible for the carnage. The structures for testing, of drivers and also of cars, monitoring by gardai, insurance and tax are treated in this country which the usual paddywhackery that it is no wonder we have such an appalling death toll on our roads. We cant sit back and blame speed and young people. How convenient is this slating of the "video generation" as one earlier commentator ventured!?

Andra  Posted: 07/07/2006 10:30

Fifi, Anon and Charlotte you all need to get a grip on reality. We all know men are better drivers than women - have you ever seen a women trying to parallel park? It always makes for good entertainment! Think about it - who drives more? Men do. All the long haul journey's, truckers are men. When you go out with your boyfriend or husband in the majority of cases it's the man who drives. After a party in the majority of cases women are driven home by men. So when you take all these 'higher' risk situations and see that the majority of drivers in these instances are men then obviously more accidents will be caused by men. That is the simple logic which media always conviently ignores. Insurance companies do the exact same thing when discriminating against males with car insurance - because it generates more money for them. If situations were reversed so that all truckers and long haul driving were female and females also drove the majority of times in social situations you would see a reverse of accident statistics and worse. Granted that males do have a more competitive streak which accounts for a tendancy to speed but then again that same competitive doggedness that males have has given us the most brilliant scientific, medical breakthroughs and inventions. Aside from all this here is the reason for high accidents in Ireland: Road engineering. The government is quite fast to always point the blame to drivers but they never look at themselves. It is far cheaper for the government to run traffic campaigns which have been proven over and over that dont work in reducing accidents. Running campaigns is also high profile so it seems to the public that they are doing something. However creating a better raod network and widening roads WILL reduce accidents but it will be expensive so government ignores this view of things. Here is simple test to prove this. Take a stretch of road known for high accident rate and run a campaign for 2 months on this road then on the same raod just widen it by 1 meter per side and compare accident figures. The Swedish governmet has realised this and they are the first to say that enginnering of raods accoubts for 1/2 of all accidents. Here in Ireland though the government is just interested in creating revenue by fining drivers and laying the blame elswhere. I cant believe how gullible the Irish public are.

Anonymous   Posted: 07/07/2006 10:38

The underlying cause for me has to be the development of the "Me Fein" society. Too mant people just don't care. Speed is obviously a factor but no amount of regulations or checks will have any effect on the mindless.

Anonymous   Posted: 07/07/2006 10:39

Young male drivers/passangers who think they are invincible. My 17 year old son cannot understand why I worry so much when he is out with his mates. He cannot see the danger even though one of his close friends died as a result of speed earlier this year. He reckons that'Michael was just unlucky'

ROTTMAN  Posted: 07/07/2006 10:57

I voted for speeding, but I also think poor driving skills goes hand in hand. The number of deaths is a different matter, and I think a lot is due to no seat belts and trying to fit more people in acar than it is supposed to carry

Mick  Posted: 07/07/2006 11:09

I share the dismay of anonymous that we have been led to believe that speed is the main cause of accidents. Think about it for a moment. Any accident is caused by many reasons in combination. Our behaviour is moulded by experience, possible punishment etc etc. We cant control other drivers (just watch out for them) we cant control the road surfaces, we cant control the amnesty, lessons, testing fiasco. But who is supposed to control (or at least strongly influence) those factors? Politicians! and they do not seem to have the foresight and guts to fix the problem. So what do they do to cover up this failing? They (along with the dubiously motivated Gardai) play the only message they know can be aimed solely at drivers (speed) leaving them blame and responsibility free. And we believe this message, because we want to believe "the authorities". Think about all the factors, dont be a mug and swallow the message withouit thinking. Have a nice day

franky  Posted: 07/07/2006 11:25

i believe that alot of older people drive too slow on the main road not taking into consideration other drivers on the road. Then the people behind want to overtake taking a risk. There are so many bad drivers on our roads. Its unbelievable...

Mary  Posted: 07/07/2006 13:05

Np Charlie insurance companies do not give a discount when you take instructions. Perhaps becuase there is no method for licensing diving instructors to instruct in thsi country, Any licensed drver can set up school as a driving instructor tho' I hear legislation is about to put a stop to this. Actually, Jo, I think the middle aged male is more likely to drive with alcolhol. Young people (my peer groups anyway) seme to be far more aware. Wheras my uncles (in their 60's) will say, ah sure 've only had three (pints) sure I'll be grand. Good point Dinny re: an eu driving licene and the state of the roads

Jim(NIV37941)  Posted: 07/07/2006 14:03

Grainne advocates the use of the R plate required in Northern Ireland after the L plate imposition is removed. Only this week we read in the paper that in this part of the island there is no legal requirement to display an L plate if you are a learner. The benefits the people of N.Irl deride from their system is dubious as when their drivers enter the roads of the Republic they seem to think that our laws particularly speed restrictions do not apply to them or worse that they are impervious to prosecution. They all seem to drive in a demented reckless manner. So in conclusion I hold the view that for years they are far more dangerous than the majority of our young drivers or any of the non nationals friends from the eastern european countries. At least that is my perception.

Chris  Posted: 07/07/2006 15:27

I would be happy to bet that those who voted "Speeding" in this survey have Poor Driving Skills

Pat(myvore)  Posted: 07/07/2006 15:54

may i make one other point please? several posters have repeated the suggestion that the gardai do not enforce the speeding regulations at night, and gatso vans go home early to a lock up. well, if i were a garda, i certainly would not be prepared to risk my life and limb by standing out on pitch dark roads with the lunatic carry on that passes for driving. parking a van on the same dark roads presents an additional danger, to those in the van and to other drivers. not just the drunk or careless drivers would be put at risk, sensible, careful drivers trying to avoid the idiots trying to avoid the parked vans would be endangered. well lit sections on accident blackspot roads with fixed cameras might work, but we really need expert opinion on this issue. it should require only common sense, but it will take at least two generations of strict enforcement before this will happen. but the government must start now!!!

annie  Posted: 07/07/2006 17:08

a lot of non nationals are being killed on our roads maybe if all car speedometers were changed to km perhaps it would make a difference as they are used to metric i sometimes look at the miles instead of kms

LifeHandle  Posted: 07/07/2006 17:23

Chana raises a good point about sample tests. However with sufficient question variation, I think this could be resolved. I would see the Dept. of Environment administering it. I don't think the psychometric test problem is as unsolvable as perhaps Chana is suggesting. Look at how many people have to repeat the rediculously easy Theory Test. How would people feel about graded licences. What I mean by this is something like bikers have already. A basic licence for cars upto 1.2L, a more advanced license for upto 1.6L etc with a small truck license required for SUVs etc. I also think that EVERYBODY involved in a crash should be tested for drugs and alcohol and if suspected of being careless, bang them back to a provisional license and make them take the test all over again.

LifeHandle  Posted: 07/07/2006 17:50

I relation to drink drivers and foreign nationals, I saw a beautiful little vignette from all aspects of Irish society one night on the road between Swords and Ashbourne. The main players were a middle aged Irish couple in their car coming back from the pub, 3 foreign nationals in their own car, and an Irish neighbour of the previously mentioned Irish couple. Anyway the foreign nationals and the Irish couple met abrubtly at about 02.00 am (with the FN car on the wrong side of the road) having paid NO attention whatsoever to Newton's various laws of motion. I came across the scene with the foreign nationals staggering around the road in a dazed condition, and the Irish couple still in their car ... nobody that badly hurt. I offered to call the guards and an ambulance ... with NOBODY else thinking that this was a good idea. Called them anyway .... The neighbour enters the scene as the FNs stagger up the road away from the scene of the accident. The neighbour then suggests STRONGLY to the Irish couple to go upto the house QUICKLY and get a couple of brandies into them to "Steady the nerves". Neighbour and Irish couple scuttle away. That leaves me at about 02.15am as the ONLY person still left at the scene. I rang the gaurds again and they said it was OK for me to go home. On my way back to Ashbourne, the 3 amigos are now staggering back towards their car looking much the worse for wear. I drove past them and called the guards again stating that the FNs were now heading back to their car. Being just too curious I head back to the scene to find a firebrigade, 2 ambulences, about 8 guards ... NO FNs and NO Irish couple with or without neighbour. The FNs had to be hiding in the bushes as there was NO way they could have doubled back and the guards never saw them. We can be absolutely certain that there were NO arrests or tests made on anybody and the only good to come out of it was the dinner-party story I delight in telling. Basically as a species .... we're a bit thick.

Pat(myvore)  Posted: 07/07/2006 19:05

this discussion has run the usual gamut of beginning with blaming young men under 25, onto elderly people not paying attention, to blaming EVERYONE that never had to take a test along with the group that were given a present of a full licence and on and on, to where it's the fault of foreign nationals. the story told about the neighbours, the couple, the fn's (nice one that!)the ambulance and the guards, and not a prosecution for anyone is as good a way of illustrating THE REAL CAUSE OF THE ROAD CRISIS. even people who have only just come into the country know within days, the chances of ever being caught and prosecuted are so minimal as to make taking the risk a good gamble! we better take on board that although the various ministers may not be perusing these boards, someone is being paid to do so, to provide the politicos with ever more excuses to do what they have been doing, NOTHING SIGNIFICANT AT ALL. seriously, i don't know how the gardai put up with the abuse that politicians and the legal profession throw at them daily. in most other countries the police would just sit back and not bother their rear ends. people from other jurisdictions are aghast when you tell them how ridiculous our licencing system is. it beggars belief that a person doing their driving test can fail it, and just drive away in their often powerful cars within minutes of failing, how could it get any more stupid than that? i would believe this discussion, and those participating are pretty much representative of our citizens generally, and the inability to focus on any specific point is exactly why the system is failing. yes, a restricted licence would help, yes, stiffer penalties would help, and so too would all the other suggestions help. but there is still one major hurdle to overcome. the gardai cannot enforce the limited range of measures that are in place NOW, through no fault of theirs. does anyone actually believe they could enforce an additional raft of extra regulations without very major reforms and increases in manpower and resources? if you do, your out of touch with reality. this debate will go on and on, after all, "when all's said and done, more's said than done" could be the national motto. until we have politicians without vested interests to introduce proper reforms and provide the proper resources, we are all wasting our time folks.

louise  Posted: 07/07/2006 19:37

Hi Im a 32yr old female from the north but living in the south for the last 9yrs. I live in Carlow and every day I see terrible driving, I am not perfect myself, but I do consider myself to be careful and a considerate driver. My gripe is traffic lights and roundabouts, daily when bringing my children to school at least 2 cars in front of me jump the lights (when they are red)"Red doesnt mean drive"! roundabouts- my god they certainly dont know how to negotiate them, well not in Carlow! And also in the last year, the Council here has installed Zebra crossings at roundabouts, madness!! I certainly agree with one of the contributors that you certainly should not be allowed to drive unacommpanied while on "L" plates and yes in the north when you have passed your driving test you are on a restricted speed for 2yrs, I learned to drive at the age of 17 and had full licence by 18, my friends at the time were safe drivers and why? because there were police around!! and realistic speed limits on small roads, which again in the south are unsafe! I do hope the system will change by the time my oldest will be on the road,meaning: Proper qualifed driving instructors, more cameras and gardai on the roads, realistic speed limits!!!!!

60s girl  Posted: 07/07/2006 21:02

My generation blames the young people for irresponsible behaviour on the roads. We produced these young people. If they are irresponsible, it is we who formed their attitutes. The carnage on our roads is caused by all of the factors indicated. We have no properly registered driving schools, so that there is no uniform standard of driving for people to aspire to, with consequent bad drivers. The motor industry takes no responsiblity for advertisements for cars which glamourise speed. Until recently, the alcoholic drinks industry turned a blind eye to the damage caused by their product, and only recently has a suggestion been made to have gardai outside pubs at closing time- an obvious solution.Nowadays, however, there is the added problem of drug- addicted drivers My generation was unbelievably careless about drink driving, and we are to blame for the culture which our young people inherited. Its about time we all grew up.

Anonymous   Posted: 07/07/2006 22:25

i think all secondary schools should teach young people how to drive and all people should have to do driving lessons before they sit their test.the young lads today have no fear of speed peer pressure is a terrible thing i see it where i am from there is a large group of lads that race along the road and they dont care about who or what they hit.young lad today should think about their family and what they would go through if they crashed and killed themselves

1104  Posted: 07/07/2006 22:47

There is such a lack of garda presence on our roads and I believe this to be a major cause of speed by most drivers, not only by young drivers. Lets face it, most of our roads are unable to take the 100 kilometre limit. I feel 80 kilometres should be the max on our roads, except for motorways. I live in the country and I am putting my life at risk and my childrens lives every time I take to the road. Heavier penalties and zero tolerance is the answer as most of us have no FEAR of the law.

Anonymous   Posted: 08/07/2006 05:50

I think it is a combination of all these factors drink, drugs speeding and lack of resouces /gardai enforcement (too few checkpoints penalty system not working )driving with no seatbelts foreign drivers unfamilar with roads/road safety pr stunt by govt minister wasting money on media campaigns which gaybo is wrongly criticised for(what young driver really cares about that!!)require more law enforcement drivers being charged with dangerous/driving driving custodial sentences and more gardai on the roads also to apply penalty points to non irish driver licences !!

mandy  Posted: 08/07/2006 06:33

I think that a major problem is some drivers actually driving to slowly. These drivers are holding up vehichles behind and people get impatient and are trying to overtake in dangerous situations.Note that if all drivers stayed on their own side of the road,lots of these accidents would not occur. Also on the statistics side of things i notice that the number of cars on the road has increased dramatically in the last ten years. Perhaps in relation to the number of vehichles on our roads the numbers being killed has dropped.Not a nice thought but a fact. I also think that with the announcement of a stage of the World rally champiomship coming to Ireland next year,our "boy racers" will be out in force immediately before and definitely after the event. mandy.

mcdermott(NHB43053)  Posted: 08/07/2006 06:35

i have been years, driving and im irish, and i find that irish people are dangerous on the roads they dont care until they have an accident then they worry about their car and the damage and blame u even if they are the ones at fault they pull out in front of u u cant even cross a road they will nearly knock u down if a garda crashes in to u they blame u even if it was his fault they do you so tell me how do u win

Derek  Posted: 08/07/2006 08:33

Driving everyday in this country is a nightmare. People not using indicators, coming into roundabouts in the wrong lane and speeding. Yes! I regard speeding as a poor driving skill because it's always the idiot that thinks he/she is a great driver that is speeding. Then there's the idiots who travel at 60km/ph where ever they are. Be it in a 50km zone up to the 100km zone. You're driving along nicely at the speed limit, next thing one of these idiots pull out in front of you and totter along and your right in the back of them. If you pass them, get to a 50km zone they pass you and continue at 60km regardless. Drink driving is dangerous, but some usually sensible guy going into his local and having two pints will get caught by the Garda far quicker than they will catch any of the above road hazards. It's amazing that the two pint guy can drive home at a resonable speed, still keep the car on the road without causing an accident and he is a criminal. He gets punished because of the other idiotic road users. Personally myself, I never drink & drive. Not just because of the law but it's that when I do go out occasionally I enjoy a good drink & it would be morally wrong to take charge of anything.

Mary  Posted: 08/07/2006 12:03

Well i voted for speed being the main cause of accidents. Whatever the state of the roads or how badly someone drives if we all slowed down we would have a better chance of avoiding an accident. My brother in law was killed by an under 25 year old male foreign national who was speeding and not watching the road... I think that sums it up! I definetly think that young men are far more reckless - and this waiting list for testing is a disaster. you have so many teenagers driving on provisional licences its scary. I think provisional licences should be done away with - noone should be allowed to drive without lessons, testing and a full licence. And there should be a rule that foreign nationals should have to do a test here before they are allowed to drive on our roads - and that includes lorry drivers. Gardai check points on dual carriageways in the middle of the day (only when the weather is fine might i add)is a waste of time. We all know where their waiting spots are most people are extra careful not to get 'caught' on these roads. Its on the secondary and small back roads that they need to be seen more often and late at night and especially at weekends. And they need to change their waiting areas every now and again! It breaks my heart every time i hear of another death on these bloody roads. I dont know how to get through to people the completely life changing devastation caused to families when someone dies so suddenly and so needlessly. Maybe as part of driving lessons it might be a good idea to show young people a graphic video of the accident scenes and interviews with survivers and families of victims these accidents. As someone who has been through it, i think i'd have no problem taking part in such a scheme if i thought it would help.

deat  Posted: 08/07/2006 13:52

I agree totally with Anonymous (7/7 :8.48). A combination of factors are the main cause. I know there is a problem with Provisional Licence Tests, but really dishing out these licences 3/4/5 times, with no test even applied for, should be scrapped. 2 Provisional Licences, if no Test done, off the road! The Govt. would come under severe pressure then, and migh DO something for a change. In my view its got nothing to do with the Gardai really.

joe(APW46958)  Posted: 08/07/2006 15:28

No account is taken of drivers who fall asleep or who have taken drugs. Speed Cameras are Revenue raisers.

Maria N  Posted: 08/07/2006 17:30

I think poor driving skills is the main reason for the carnage. Learner drivers out driving on their own and mobile phone users. I have noticed that lorry drivers are the worst offenders for use of mobile phones. In one day I witnessed at least three lorry drivers turning at crossroads in a town in Co. Carlow holding their mobiles up to their ears. Now seriously if anything went wrong would these drivers be able to cope with the situation. I don't think so as their concentration is definitely not fully on their driving. A few years ago it was very rare that lorries were involved in accidents but the majority of accidents now involve lorries. Foreign drivers also are a danger as they have no regard for the rules of the road, they overtake on double white lines, drive way too close to the driver in front and of course speed. If manners, courtesy and care were used on our roads I believe the carnage would be reduced but no matter what laws are brought in, if not enforced and if drivers don't change their attitude the carnage will keep on rising.

Mary G  Posted: 08/07/2006 22:41

I think it's unfair to blame young male drivers. I've seen female drivers who are unsafe on the roads as well. People using mobiles while driving is an absolute joke, how can they be so stupid. We need a garda unit solely responsible for this to stop the carnage.

Ann  Posted: 08/07/2006 22:59

My question is "What is speeding"? Is it 32 miles per hour in a 30 mile zone? Its all relative. But to me the biggest misnomer of them all is that any person can get into a car with a provisional licence and drive away. They can also be doped to the hilt with everything but alcohol and certainly will not be detected if they do go on to cause an accident. Provisional licences should only be issued to people who are undertaking driving lessons and they should never be allowed to drive unsupervised and certainly never with passengers on board with no licences. Also, as a previous poster commented, they should display an 'R' plate for at least a year after they pass their tests and not be allowed to travel over a certain speed. We are the laughing stock of Europe in allowing people to drive unrestricted with only provisional licences.

Mary  Posted: 10/07/2006 09:07

\"We all know men are better drivers than women\" - says Andra. Utter BS. If that were truely the case, Insurance companies would not give women much better rates. Insurance companies are not doing it for the good of their health - the stats are out there to prove it. I\'m better at paralel parking than most men I know. But it takes more than being good at paralel parking to make a good driver. In fact, with the vast majority of couples I know, when they go out. He drives there, has a couple of drinks and she drives them home. And risk taking behaviour in men (regardless of what you think it has produced in the scientific world) does worsen their accident rate. I do agree with you tho\' with regard to the road network. Life handle, you mention that if those in accident are \"suspected of being careless\", then make them re*sit the test. I\'m sorry but the courts would need far more than just suspicion for this to even stand up, legally speaking.

Bernie  Posted: 10/07/2006 09:39

I think speeding and poor driving skills is the main factor for road traffic accidents today. People think that its not going to happen to them, they are been so irresponsible, overtaking on blind bends, overtaking with traffic coming the other way and forcing you on to the hard shoulder. Both non national and NI reg cars don't care about the speed limit on our roads, I live close to the border and sure enough every morning going to work I am overtaken by several NI reg cars going well over the speed limit. Another problem is left hand drive cars and artics, two weekends ago on a minor road an artic stopped and started to reverse on a very bad bend, when I started to beep and the car behind me started to beep he took no notice and kept reversing, I had to do the same, but he didn't stop until he hit me, myself and my children where so lucky that we were traveling in a big car, a small car would have ended up under the artic, his excuse was that he had lefthand drive and couldn't see me. To be honest he didn't care.

Maggie  Posted: 10/07/2006 11:27

Nice idea with regard to the provisional licences deat, but who is going to enforce it The gardai seem to be barely able to enforce the regulations which are there.

grainne(IBT11981)  Posted: 10/07/2006 20:51

I agree with a lot of what Jim says most young people fron nth,Ireland drive like mad people when in the republic they know they are out of their own durestriction and couldnt care less that doesnt mean they do the same on their own roads.

Sparky  Posted: 10/07/2006 22:24

There will be no improvement in speeding and other bad driving habits until drivers know they will be caught and put off the road. At present they know they are not likely to be caught.

Ann  Posted: 10/07/2006 23:15

You shouldn't be able to get insurance on a provisional licence and not on another persons policy either unless you can show your full licence. That would be easily policed as it is in the UK where they have a far larger population than us. But aside from that, I live in a rural area where as you drive out of town the mileage says 100 kph just before a bad bend and just after that bad bend there is a sharp turn to the local school. It is crazily dangerous & there has been lots of accidents at this spot but the council still leave up the 100 kph signage. Everyone complains about it but nobody does anything about it for the simple reason that the book doesn't actually seem to stop with anyone. Who are the nameless, faceless people who put up these signs without any reference to danger spots. They only put up the 'black spot' signs AFTER there have been loads of deaths in a particular spot. There is no forward thinking.

Mary  Posted: 11/07/2006 10:24

Ann, you say you shouldn't be able to get insurance on a provisional licence and not on another persons policy either unless you can show your full licence. Noice theory but perhaps you don't realise htat there are hundreds of thousands of people awaiting testign with a waiting lis tof up to a year and next to no public transport to take them to and rom work if they were not prmitted to drive. Lets face it, it is not all provisional drivers who cause accidents. Those who speed, be they boy/girl-racers or middle aged people in SUV's will do so rwegardless of the colour of their license.

Mary  Posted: 11/07/2006 10:27

I do agree with you tho' Ann, in relaiton to the roads and speed limit signs. My mother lives next to a wide straight country road with a speed limit of 80kph. I think she is the only person drving on it who keeps to the limit. Yet I live on a narrow winding (badly surfaced) country road, which also has a speed limit of 80kph and I reckon you'd have to be Colin McCray (the rally driver) and have great disrespect for the suspension of your car to go around the road where I live, as fast as 80kph.

Thrashattack  Posted: 11/07/2006 11:10

I cant belive that at the time of my writing this that people are still under the impression that accidents these days are due to speeding. Get real! The issue is bad driving skills. You just have to drive out there any morning of the week. Go onto the M50 and see the tail backs. NO! NOT GOING TOWARDS THE TOLL BRIDGE... The tailbacks are southbound because idiots are sitting in the overtaking lane going at slow speeds. People need to understand that lane is for overtaking only. If people would use the roads properly then there would be less speeding and thus less road deaths cos people wouldn't be as stressed or end up late because they could properly judge travel times

Ann  Posted: 11/07/2006 14:23

Mary, there are 100's of thousands of people at any given time awaiting their tests in the UK too. Driving licences are not something that should be given out overnight. If you are waiting for your test you can use that time to take lessons on driving. Nobody should be just 'entitled' to a licence. It is an exam system like all others so you only pass if you are fit & safe to drive. Isn't that part of the problem, people think they should be automatically entitled to drive at the drop of a hat, when and where they want to? I agree with Thrashattack, its not speed in all cases. The amount of bad driving skills & lack of consideration to other road users in this country is quite amazing.

LifeHandle  Posted: 11/07/2006 19:42

How about EVERYBODY has to resit their driving test every 5 years. In that way you have to constantly work on your driving habits. ..... and there is a €500 levy on your insurance if you pass your test but fail subsequently.

Mary  Posted: 12/07/2006 09:14

Ann, it does not (or should not) take anyone 52 weeks to get driving lesions. This can be completed successfully in 12 weeks or less. Now do not tell me that in the UK, there is a wait of up to 1 year to take a test. There is not. Thrash, on a motorway (3 lane) certainly in France and Germany, the outside lane is a fast lane. On a dual carriageway (2 lane), it is an overtaking lane. Howevrer, certainly on the N3 during busy periods, if you do not stay in the overtaking lane, when you need to to the right off the roundabout, well before you approach the roundabout, other vehicles have the unfortunate habit of not letting you in thgen when you indicate and need to be in that lane. Of course if we had flyovers as they have in France and the UK, the this would not be an issue as there would be a geat deal less of the queue without roudabouts controlled by traffic lights.

Anonymous   Posted: 12/07/2006 17:28

As far as I am concerned its a combination of all 3- people driving too fast, driving drunk and not knowing how to drive properly. When I started driving, it was with a qulaified instructor and then later, accompanie by a fully qualified driver. People going too fast around twisting country lanes, flipping their car hitting another car/pedestrain they didn't see.

Pat(myvore)  Posted: 12/07/2006 19:19

Anonymous Posted: 12/07/2006 17:28 ""When I started driving, it was with a qulaified instructor and then later, accompanie by a fully qualified driver."" excellent! well done you, but what use does this do for you, or thousands like you, when tens of thousands of others have never bothered to do the same? for me, your post highlights the root problem, no consistent teaching or testing and failed drivers can still drive away from the test centre. given this situation, it's easy to see how too many will simply say "why bother?" the fact that you took lessons is laudable, but without certification, your instructor could actually be driving on a 5 year old provisional licence! be honest, did you check? actually, how many posting here that took lessons actually asked to see the instructors actual licence? i say again, piecemeal twiddling with the situation, as has been the practice during my 40 odd years driving will never resolve the issue. we need a total overhaul of the road traffic regs, provision of sufficient gardai and resources TO ENFORCE THE REGS! anything less is a complete waste of time.

catherine(JGB48490)  Posted: 13/07/2006 13:26

The death rate on Irish Roads is just scandalous - I have to agree with the points made on a lack of Garda presence. I learned to drive in the UK and the law there is the same as here - a Learner Driver may not drive alone you have to have a qualified driver with you at all times - I didn't dare break this law in the UK because everywhere you turned there were police. A full time Garda presence on the roads would be one good way of deterring ALL speeding drivers - inexperienced drivers etc. I also think that at this stage the country should be littered with billboards showing cars after crashes as well as people who have been permanently injured - just to remind us that at any second 'it could be you'. That leads on to another issue that nobody focuses on - we all know how many people have been killed - but how many more are left permanently disabled because of an accident?? I think too that the government should enlist the help of ordinary citizens by having in-car cameras in ordinary cars that way none of us will ever know if the car we're about to overtake in a 50kmph zone is going to record us breaking the law. In conclusion speeding is probably the biggest factor but there are so many other factors - tailgating - the condition of our roads - inexperienced drivers out alone - old people who drive at 20kmph frustrating everybody - lorries with no mudguards making visibility practially nil when it rains - lack of gardai - it won't happen to me attitude the list goes on - but the big issue is what are our government going to do about it - ???

skenn_ie  Posted: 13/07/2006 14:02

I DO blame the government for the high accident rate on our roads..not so much on enforcement, rather for breeding a generation of poor drivers. Learners should HAVE to spend a considerable amount of time supervised, to form good driving habits. As things are, they only spend a few hours with instructors...which teaches, sure, but isn't a long enough, or frequent enough experience to form habits. Drivers should automatically use their indicators, check their mirrors, "keep their distance" etc, not have to think(or not) aboout it. The situation where someone can prove themselves incompetent, yet continue driving on their own is rediculous.

frank(WHG32000)  Posted: 13/07/2006 14:11

One in three drivers have not passed their driving test. A third of them have failed their driving test, and are still on our roads, having proved to the authorities that they can't drive.

Anonymous   Posted: 13/07/2006 14:54

There will always be people doing things they shouldn’t eg. Drink driving & speeding and I fully understand that the govt. must have strict policies and laws and punishment for these things however I feel that the govt. and agencies only response on dealing with road death is to blame blame blame the motorists - we all have drink problems, we all are inexperienced, we all are over tired, we all speed, we are all evil so and so’s who get into our cars every single day intent on causing mayhem. This is what I feel is being thrown at us in every single news article I read and hear and see. Im starting to actually get really wound up listening to this constant thrashing we are being given. Why don’t they start doing something productive to help cut road accidents? For example…. Proper road lighting for night time… proper road markings and bright cats eyes for every single inch of road in this country (seriously how much do cats eyes cost???)… eh hello we all pay MORE than our fair share of road tax why are secondary roads in such a horrendous state? Those in charge ought to be doing things to stop the deaths on the road other than just giving the citizens of this country an ear bashing everytime some one dies!

Anonymous   Posted: 13/07/2006 15:01

I drive 500 miles per week on all types of roads and generally speaking the going to and from work is never a problem, i live in a small village in Kildare one mile from the gards station and we have a 2 speed limit situation. It is scary in the evenings/night time observing both speeding and overtaking and if ever there is a serious effort by the authorithies to target the village they would fill their books in both speed limit zones. I think the problem for this village is we are just yards from the N 4 motorway AND WHETHER DRIVERS OR ENTERING OR EXITING THE MOTORWAY Speed is considered just normal everyday driving and until such time as there is a general blitz on driving habits the road accident situation in our country will not change and the death toll and injuries will probably get worse

Anonymous   Posted: 13/07/2006 15:04

I don't think it's fair to say speed, or anything else, is 'the single biggest factor' contributing to road accidents. There are so many reasons that we are losing 100s of people on our roads. Irish roads are disgracefully bad, riddled with potholes, twists and turns, patches without road markings..the list goes on. Coupled with more cars on the road than ever before, that is something that is not going to sort itself out.. what exactly are we paying road tax for? Usually to re-surface roads that are already among our best and that are soon to be bypassed anyway. It's absolutely idiotic. We have one of the highest rates of new car ownership anywhere, everyone wants the newest, flashiest cars and the simple fact of the matter is that these cars are more powerful and go a lot faster than we realise..you just don't feel that you're going too fast, even at 75mph! I think there is an incredible amount of intolerance, impatience and arrogance showing through in our drivers these days, nobody can bear the insult of being actually stuck behind a 'slow' driver or a truck/tractor. I think we're all so busy showing off how important we are that we're endangering ourselves and, worse, others. It's time we copped on and forgot about how well off we are since the Celtic Tiger made us all the most important people in the world.

Blondie  Posted: 13/07/2006 15:19

I think all new cars should have a satellite navigation system in place because half of us don't know where we are going! This is a complete distraction and makes us worried on our journeys. All these new roads have many of us confused. It's becoming double-dutch to me!

Anonymous   Posted: 13/07/2006 17:22

I took driving lessons a while back with a qualified driving instructor, I didn't put in for my test as I felt I wasn't ready. I have gone back recently to take some more lessons with the same instructor with the view of doing my test shortly, however I would have to say I am much more nervous now, that I was before. I feel that a combination of factors on the roads are contributing to road fatalities, eg. drink driving, speeding and more. However at the end of the day, I do really feel that it is up to EACH AND EVERYONE to take responsibility and stop this carnage.

LifeHandle  Posted: 13/07/2006 19:00

Interesting to note that there has been 12 replies since I suggested that we should all have to resit our driving test every 5 years, and NOBODY has commented on the suggestion. Instead there has been lots of blaming the roads, government, speed etc. I think only one person has commented that it is our responsibility. We have to take ownership of the the problem. After all it is us who are crashing into each other. Most of us are reasonably well educated, even the FNs. Loads of studies show that over 50% of people think they are better than average at both sex and driving. So people ... with all that going for us, why do we still have the problem. It is the general publics fault. No institution or environmental circumstance is to blame. We are educated ones who demand the right to be allowed to drive, but then don't respect the responsibility. Now I know there are people here who drive a lot and never had an accident ... and I am one in both a car and a motorbike. But the people who do crash aren't dropped in specially by Martians for the purpose... they belong to us. I would like to see stats on people who have serious crashes published in the media in the same way that if someone is shot, there is often a comment that the person was known to the police. It would be interesting to see if six months of Mr/Ms. X died in a car crash today and it was their 5th accident. That might get the message across to careless drivers, because I suspect some people who crash assume that they have had their bit of bad luck and it won't happen to them again. Er-inforce the point that it is likely to happens and again and YOU are the reason it will keep happening.

Bear  Posted: 13/07/2006 19:54

I am a driver with 43yrs experience, most of that time as a professional driver driving coaches. This finger pointing at young males drives me mad, as most of it is coming from the female population. One has to only spend a week behind the wheel to see where a lot of road rage comes from, "female drivers" Yes they are not as much involved in accidents as young males, but if anyone takes the time to follow up on a recent study done in the USA you will find that they are one of the major causes of accidents on the roads, while not involved themselves. They show no courtesy on the roads, and I have seen them with my own eyes "putting on makeup" while driving. Go to any of the main routes into Dublin and sit and watch for about half an hour and you will see some eye openers. There is a small minority of young male drivers that are on the road doing some stupid stuff, especially at night time, drag racing on straights and doing wheelie's, but I have yet to see an tragic accident as a result of there behaviour, or for that matter a summons, or even a Garda presence. This talk about points on your licence and on the spot fines is a load of old rubbish, follow up what has happened in England since they started using this system. The Garda should be on dangerous stretches of road monitoring them all the time, instead of trying to catch someone doing 5 or 10 miles an hour too fast on motorway types of road, this is just a money racket. They have a so called hotline to call if you see anyone drunk driving, I had the experience of travelling behind a car that was being driven by a person that was hardly able to keep the cat between the ditches, and I came across a Garda car stopped up a side road, I was able to see it from the height I was driving from in the coach. I stopped and went up to them, 2 were lying on the back seat and 2 more in the front! I told them about what was happening, and the car was still in sight, I was told that they would take care of it, I followed the car for a further 6 miles though a town and the car was never stopped. I think a lot of thought has to be put in to fix this problem, point systems will have no end result only for the government that will collect the on the spot fines as well.

Anonymous   Posted: 13/07/2006 21:01

I cannot understand given this age of technology why we do not use our technical and software skills on cars. All cars should be fitted with wireless devices - each time the car is turned on, the device should request your drivers licience number and a pin number, this device would then know how experienced the driver is and limit the car's speed. There should also be a mandatory breathayser on each car which will prevent a driver with alcohol from starting the car. This government are prepared to spend millions of euro storing unused and unusable election/voting machines, but this same investment would make our cars and young people safe.

gaffer  Posted: 13/07/2006 23:15

l think that the goverment is to blame. reason any one can go and buy a car no matter what horse power in any garrage if they have the money and any insurance compeny will insure them again if they have money to pay so as far as i can see when the goverment gets there share they do not care how many young people get killed. why not bring out a law that for the first 3 years of driving you can only insure a 1 liter car that can reach 100 km per hour .and take the speed out of there hands. agaln it is down to money

anne  Posted: 14/07/2006 00:12

I beleive a MAJOR problem is the poor state of the roads in ireland. They are an absolute disgrace when compared with roads in other european countries. i was in portugal recently and the roads there are suberp compared to the winding narrow, uneven surfaces and poor quality roads we have in ireland . And portugal is a poor country when compared to ireland. many accidents occur due to poor raod conditions. it is the governments responsibility to ensure raods are capable with dealing with the volume of traffic and the high performance cars that are being manufactured. Why do we need such vechicles - they surely encourage speeding. Where has all the euro funding gone to - not on providing proper public transport or social services nor on the road network - I presume much of it has found its way into the coffers of politicans and their buisness allies. There is no answer to road deaths when we have such incompetent politicians. i have observed that young people have a much more sensible attitude to drinking and driving than the middle aged, which is the category i fall into.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 14/07/2006 01:40

bad roads, bad cops, and cops in the places where they are sure to cop drivers for plenty of road tickets , and not where they are needed. ie, on the side roads where all or most of the accidents occur.its a policital thing again, lip service for the policitans, ie, not in my constiuncy , thank you.

femur  Posted: 14/07/2006 06:22

Poor driving skills and stupidity. On saturday afternnoon driving from Birr to Kilkenny I saw three near crashes. Some people overtook coming up to bends, so even when we are careful our life is not in our hands.

Mary  Posted: 14/07/2006 08:45

Anonymous Posted: 13/07/2006 15:04, it's not that we are all "showing ff how importatn we are" or that we fid beign stuck behind a slow driver or tractor some sort "insult" as you might think. But boy/girl racers aside, we have become genuinely time-poor society. we rushout the door, we rushg into worl to beat the tailbacks, we rush out lunch to meet a deadline, we rish home to collect the childrne, we rush thru dinner. OF COURSE this is going to affect the way we drive. Every morning, even nwow that it's the Summer I am overtaken by at least 3 or 4 cars before I reach a dual carriage way or motorway. In the evening it's the same and bear in mind that speed limit and safety prmitting, do an average of 50-55 unless I'm on a motorway or dual careiage way. I don't begrudge any of them overtaking me but most do not seem to do so in an entirely safe manner. Blondie, if you are starting a journey you are unfamiliar with, get yourself an up to date map and study it before you set out. Get the AA to do up a route planner for you (this is available online) and start out plenty early to leave yourself loads and loads of time.

Anonymous   Posted: 14/07/2006 10:06

Men taking chances while driving, I see it all the time, I drive alot and see this everyday. The number of male deaths reflect my view.

Pat(myvore)  Posted: 14/07/2006 11:53

Anonymous Posted: 13/07/2006 21:01 how silly can you get! i have enough trouble with the damn software that runs my personal computer, as have most computer users, are you seriously suggesting we should place our safety in the control of bill gates and his ilk? get a grip, if someone needs a computer to control their driving they shouldn't be allowed out in public, never mind driving a car. utter rubbish, nothing less. FOR THE COACH DRIVER PLEASE?? what chauvinist nonsense. yes, SOME women put on makeup while driving, as SOME men use electric shavers. SOME idiots copy the american stupidity of drinking hot coffe from mugs while driving too, BOTH MALES AND FEMALES, and of course, LETS NOT FORGET THE BUS AND COACH DRIVERS PHONING, AND EVEN TEXTING WHILE DRIVING, OK? there is no one sector causing the mayhem, all sectors and groups have their careless, and selfish drivers, but this business of GENERALISING about various groups is anything but helpful nor will it solve any issues.

Mary  Posted: 14/07/2006 13:09

Bear, this is not the USA and stats bear out that males are more involved in accients and so their insurance is more expensive. Yes, there is seldom a garda presence when a minority of young boy / and girl racers are doing things you describe and this is part of the problem. I agree thoroughly, Garda should be on dangerous stretches of road monitoring them all the time, instead of trying to catch someone doing 5 or 10 miles an hour too fast on motorway types of road. Anonymous Posted: 13/07/2006 21:01 - there is nothing to stp people using eac other license number or pin number and what hapens if you forgt the pin number and need to get somewhere urgently? I agree tho', in relation to the breathalysers in cars. Gaffer, all 1 litre cars I know of wiull reach well over 10 Km. Infact the speed limit onthe Motoray is 120 KM.

Bear  Posted: 14/07/2006 13:39

LifeHandle\'s suggestion that people re sit their test every 5 yrs is a good one if only it were practical, people can\'t get a date for to do it the first time for months, and now it is going to be shopped out to a private organisation. But it should be the case that people have to go to classes maybe at night time as well as daytime to give people a better chance of being able to attend them. The main reason for this being the introduction of Motorway driving here. If you travel on any short stretches that we have here, you will see people passing on the inside, holding on to the \"passing\" outside lane, and at the end of these stretches we come to roundabouts, very few people have any clue of how to use these, no comprehension of what lane they should be in. Quote LifHandele: Now I know there are people here who drive a lot and never had an accident ... and I am one in both a car and a motorbike. End Quote. How very fortunate you are, but do not think for one moment that this is because of your good driving, just think of some of the unfortunate people that every week are going about there business and there life comes to a sudden end, in nearly all cases one of the 2 parties in 2 car crashes are driving properly. His suggestion of making it known that some unfortunate person that has been killed on the road, that their prior history of crashes would do something to the general public to stop accidents is ludicrous. The people involved in making those very dramatic advertisements with the very realistic results have admitted that they have had no effect. I have been involved in 4 accidents, but I have never had a claim made against me, nor received any summons, so that to me is a non starter. Slow driving in my mind is one of the major causes of crashes, I have seen it all to often, someone going along at 25-30 mpr and a string of traffic maybe a half mile behind them, all that that they want to do is make normal progress on the road, which is by the way one of the chief causes of failure in people failing their tests, not keeping a normal progress. If a road had 100km speed limit then I expect to be able most of the time to be able to do that. This kind of driving causes many to take very real risks trying to overtake them.

LifeHandle  Posted: 14/07/2006 13:47

The idea about software driving the car is not as far fetched as it appears and as someone who was in IT for 13 years I too would share some reservations. However given that most of the jumbo jets are essentially fly-by-wire now, it won't be too long before it makes its way into cars. Already many of the controls in higher end cars are computerised and within 10 years there won't be a direct link between the steering wheels and the front wheels of the car anymore. There will be a computerised connection just as there is currently on many breaking systems. The breathaliser in the car is a GREAT idea, but what about drunk passengers ... they might set it off too. Sadly there is too many ways to fiddle it. There was an idea muted years ago regarding people getting a monetry reward if you successfuly reported a drunk driver to the police. How do people feel about that?

Anonymous   Posted: 14/07/2006 20:11

there was (still is?) a number you can phone to report bad driving, suspected drunk or not. it's no longer promoted for a few reasons, the two main ones being that it actually promotes the use of phones in cars, counter to another failed policy, and the fact that it was being abused, idiots are not confined to speeding and poor driving habits. it's most definitely not comparing apples with apples to make an analogy between "fly by wire" aircraft and what are simple wireless replacement components in cars, the sheer volume of cars versus aircraft alone renders the idea of "drive by wire" in the same way as "fly by wire" a non starter for several generations. aircraft fly in, and are controlled to remain in, specific corridors, with very large safety margins over, under, and to each side of the craft. you can't get cars to stay in lane for 2 minutes approaching roundabouts as it is. what if a "blue screen of death" causes a car to break down, as even the basic electronic controls currently in cars fail, the time it would take to overide your "autopiloted car" to avoid a collision could actually cause a crash. your response began to support the idea of software controlled cars but quickly highlighted even more potential problems within a few lines, surely not very consistent thinking. leave the idea of computer driven cars to special effects in movies, where they will remain for generations to come. we can't get basic road repairs done as it is, there is no chance the government will invest the massive amounts of money involved in developing and installing the complex systems required to manage such sci fi dreams. you'll have people outside pubs and clubs prepared to help overcome any in-car breathlysers. lets keep the discussion in the real world of lawless ireland of 2006.

Anonymous   Posted: 14/07/2006 21:12

4 words sum up much of the ills that befall irish society. 'Ah sure, what harm'. Compared to the many countries I have driven in with a far better road accident profile, Ireland has a shocking collection of causes for its problems, not just one. People will always take risks and if I had to pick one factor that i feel would help it would have to be more garda presenc AND enforcement of the rule. i.e. Speeders are a big problem, as are reckless overtakers. There arent enough guards to ENFORCE the laws and people just take the 'piss'. Deal with speed first, enforce the law with financial penalties and the 60 yr old road hogs, the boy racers, and overtaking risk takers etc etc will soon feel the pinch.

Anonymous   Posted: 15/07/2006 09:22

Selling high powered cars to young people First time drivers and young people under 25 years old should only be driving small horse powered cars untill they gain experience

Ann  Posted: 15/07/2006 18:29

Lifehandle, Regarding your point about re-sitting the test every 5 years. Good idea but not exactly practical. Isn't that just another form of taxation? Learning to drive is like learning any practical skill. Once you have learned from a GOOD teacher you remember for life. Why should the good, safe & courteous drivers be penalised because of the bad drivers? Our insurance premiums individually reflect our driving history. This is the only country in Europe where anyone (without sitting any test whatsoever) can get into a car with a provisional licence and take to the road. Parents put their teenage children on their insurance & let them drive unaccompanied. This happens all the time. Personally I think that is madness. Certainly they have not got the right to criticise the Government as the book stops with them alone. Also, there are no standards for people who teach driving. Anyone can set up a driving school. Once you learn the bad habits they remain with you. That is why it is important to have properly regulated driving schools. Instead of parents teaching their children (& possibly just passing on bad habits) it should be compulsory for anyone sitting their test to have been to a regulated driving school. This is just the beginning. Then we can tackle the roads, road signage, etc etc. If you are driving on a provisional licence with no instruction, then no amount of signage will improve your actual driving skills as you just don't have them!

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 00:54

bad roads with the same speed limits as dual-carriage ways,

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 00:56

over the counter remedies like , actifed, and anatihestimines,they make you drowsey, so there.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 00:59

learner drivers out after 7 at night, and before six in the morning,

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 00:59

male drivers showing off too female passengers,

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 01:01

unnessary chases by cops , after cars that wont stop anyway.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 01:04

not fitting automatic throttle limiting devices to all new cars to corrospond to the road speed limits in force at all signs, surely this is not beyond the limits of current technology.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 01:05

badly marked signs at side roads, in country areas.with cars dashing out of these roads into oncoming traffic.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 01:06

farm vehicles going 0 to 4 miles per hour on public raods,

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 01:06

falling asleep at the wheel.

liam(lcollins)  Posted: 16/07/2006 01:09

people taking their own lives, eg, suicide, lots of it , which is not being recorded as such.only as driver error.and covered up as such,

Darren C  Posted: 16/07/2006 09:59

i am a male driver and have been driving for over 13 years. It is simply careless driving and speed that kills. How many of us have been late for something or other and have pushed it that little bit futher. When i started driving, I had a little 1.1 fiesta. looking back now, that car had poor braking power above 70, as it was so light, but yet we expect young people to start off on small cars, which have less crash resistance than larger safer cars. Also why are any vehicles not resricted to 90 or 80 mph (140kmp) the speed limit is less than 120kph and it would not restrict acceleration or power. look also at the media, print media with all the car modification magazines. I don't body work and ICE mods but they also talk of putting 2 liter engines in corsa's and fiesta's for god sake. the tele has car chases and motor sports every day and yet we wonder why people drive at excessive speeds. Growing up I remember wanting a car like the Dukes of hazard, (and maybe Daisy Duke aswell) so from a young age we are exposed to this. I am not an advocate of sensorship but folks people drive fast because they can and want to, whether for fun or necessity so restrict everybody and nobody will go fast. Oh yeah by the way, how many fatal accidents are in Dublin compared to the number of speed cameras. It's all about money simple as that.

skenn_ie  Posted: 16/07/2006 16:17

Learner, and early "qualified" drivers should be restricted on the power of cars because they can do less damage to OTHER people. On the subject of modifications, I wonder how many modifications are declared to the insurance companies...assuming they are insured in the first place. Even the addition of foglights, spotlights, non-standard audio system qualify as modifications. Addition of spoilers, low-profile tyres and others often reflect the driving style and attitude of the driver

LifeHandle  Posted: 16/07/2006 23:25

The fly-by-wire control in cars is actually happening. I am not making it up and it is far from inconsistant thinking or sci-fi. Already there are cars that will vibrate the seat or beep at the driver if the car feels IT is drifting off line. One of the top line mercs will now apply the brakes if IT feels it is getting too close to the car in front. Also computerised controls are cheaper when manufactured in volume that metal linkages. It also makes maintenance more profitable for the car manufacturers. The mechanic won't adjust the steering anymore. They will set it electronically and if there is a problem they will replace the unit. Its not safety that will cause fly-by-wire. It is manufacturing expediency. A lot of cars now have traction control. This is the very essense of fly-by-wire, i.e. the CAR deciding how much drive to deliver to each wheel. ABS brakes have been around for 15 years. The only mechanical link left between the driver and the actual mechanics of the car is the steering wheel ... and its days are numbered. Someone else suggested that our insurance policy is already an indication of how dangerous a particular demographic of the population is deemed to be. That is only true up to a point. The safer groups of people get levied to some extent to help reduce the premiums of the very high risk categories. In that way their insurance is slightly more affordable which helps the insurance companies increase the size of the market.

LifeHandle  Posted: 16/07/2006 23:39

Most of the guys who modify their cars with flashy lights and wings etc do NOT drive dangerously .... simply because of the cost of replacing those modifications. To make younger people safer on the roads, I think there are two key ideas that would have huge return. #1 Take all sound damping out of the car so that they hear every bit of engine and road noise. #2 Ban all sound systems. The reason behind my ideas is fairly simple. You can feel you are going quite fast in the right car when you are actually doing about 40mph. Its the very smooth suspension rides and the fact that they can't hear the engine or the road noise that makes them feel they are not going fast enough. Get a lift in an old style 850cc Mini and you will know what I mean. Also the sound systems are bad news on two fronts. Fristly the volumes they play them at must be VERY distracting. There should be upper limits to the decibel limits they can go to. Secondly tests in Britian have shown that if you play a fast beat music like RAP etc, you will drive faster than if you play slower music like classical jazz etc. The Govt was right to ban the use of mobile phones in cars. I think the other distractors have to go also.

LifeHandle  Posted: 17/07/2006 00:23

Here are some studies connecting music style and driving safety: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1870853.stm http://www.safetycenter.navy.mil/media/ashore/issues/summer02/distracted.htm Some interesting school projects around the mood effects of music. http://www.sciencenewsforkids.org/articles/20040602/Feature1.asp An RAC study: http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2004/s1089042.htm If you couple the effects of music with possible sleep deprevation and cars that may be TOO comfortable so that people cannot feel the speed they are travelling, perhaps there is an argument to be made for dumbing down car design.

Blondie  Posted: 17/07/2006 02:51

I agree completely with Darren. We are under the impression that we can give our young people any old car and think that they will be fine in it. Yet, we wouldn't drive it ourselves! Listen to this one! My young fellow came home and told me one of his mates had a tip in his car. Now this fellow's brother has only recently died and he probably isn't really with it at the moment. He pulled out from a side road and admitted that he wasn't really looking. The car he is driving was bought for a mere 5 euro from his uncle! He has to use a screwdriver to turn on the ignition imagine! There is no way that this car should be allowed out on the road at all and it gives the young person the impression that it doesn't matter if he crashes it. If he was driving a brand new car he might treat it like gold.

Maura in Shock  Posted: 17/07/2006 08:13

On my way to work this morning, approaching the M50 Roundabout from Blanchardstown, I was in the right hand lane which allows me to either turn right onto the roundabout or go on straight to the next roundabout. A car reg.00D silver, came from the centre lane and crossed in front of me and I proceeded straight on and I had to do much swerving to avoid hitting this car. It is a regular occurance at this roundabout. I have not yet recovered from the trauma of this event. If I reported this to the police, there would be no response as I discovered when a car ran me out of my lane from the hard shoulder in a most aggressive manner and I tried to pursue it.... I see mother from Carlow also complaining about the same matter. We are really sitting ducks for careless/bad/aggressive drivers. This weekend I experienced the worst of journeys, wide loads with no warnings, golf buggys using the roads! yes in Lahinch, Tractors 15mph holding up miles of traffic on the Galway road, extreme amounts of roadworks on the Ennis to Lahinch road, 35 minute journey Ennistymon to Lahinch (c.3 miles) in roasting conditions, O God, deliver me from Irish Roads....because this is HELL on earth.

Patsy  Posted: 17/07/2006 08:41

A lack of common courtesy on the roads is also a factor, slow moving vehicles should concider road users an allow that long line of traffic behind them to pass. This would reduce the amount of drivers taking stupid risks trying to pass. Also I wonder what percentage of the 46,000 speed fines were accrued in the 50km areas during the day?. The penalty points is system is just a revenue generating exercise for a selfish government and will never save lives.

Mary  Posted: 17/07/2006 08:52

"learner drivers out after 7 at night, and before six in the morning" Ah Liamn, would you cop on, how else do ou expect have the population between 18 and 23 to get to work? "not fitting automatic throttle limiting devices to all new cars to corrospond to the road speed limits in force at all signs" Nice idea but there doesn't seem to be the money to enforce current strategies as it is. Also, anyone takign OTC peds should check both the label and with their pharmacist and get non-drowsy alternative if they are going to be driving. That is simply common sense,

Mary  Posted: 17/07/2006 12:58

#1 Take all sound damping out of the car so that they hear every bit of engine and road noise. #2 Ban all sound systems - Lifehandle, ou'd have a battle on your hands to get this. Maura, what you describe on theM50 Blanchardstown roundabout is a common occurence. I used to work quite close there

grainne(IBT11981)  Posted: 17/07/2006 14:52

Didnt know an L plate doesnt have to be displayed in this country and I totally agree with Jims comments but I think irrespective of creed, race or anything else if these people dont slow down the accident figures will only sadly increase.

LifeHandle  Posted: 17/07/2006 15:30

I know ... the weeping and knashing of teeth at the laying to rest of woofers, sub-woofers and whatever else they have installed in case they need to be even more woofed would be a terrible sight indeed. Think it might help though.

Anonymous   Posted: 17/07/2006 22:51

NOT KNOWING THE RULES OF THE ROAD SPEEDING, SIGNS ON THE ROAD SHOULD BE IMPROVED,

mcdermott(NHB43053)  Posted: 21/07/2006 02:23

i believe there is not just one single factor there are many that contribute to road accidents and ill name a few, roads not wide enough to drive on drink driving speeding reckless driving moblie phones smoking while driving have caused accidents it does not matter if u have a full licence or provsional

Ann  Posted: 24/07/2006 18:44

Of course it matters if you have a full licence or a provisional. If you have a full licence you have done a test, if you have a provisional licence you have done no test. I live on 1 of the most dangerous roads in Ireland (as stated by the NRA). There is absolutely nowhere to go if a car coming towards you looses control, except down a steep embankment. We can't change the roads overnight but we can make sure that all drivers have been tested. By the way, I passed a school bus on the road only an hour ago, & the driver was on his mobile phone. So much for the new law which again will only work if drivers become more responsible.

Maggie  Posted: 25/07/2006 11:40

A school bus - in the middle of the School holidays? How unusual.

Bear  Posted: 25/07/2006 19:07

Mary seems to have all the answers to everything! Except she does not seem to have a clue about the rules governing motorway driving and dual carriageways. First of all there is no such thing as a fast lane on a duel carriageway. In fact it is the only type of road that you can lawfully pass on the inside. Motorways have the inside lane as a "slow" lane with all other lanes being overtaking lanes only, once you pass the vehicle you want to pass you must move back in to the next slowest lane, even if that is the "slow lane". That is the law regardless of what you see happening on those roads.

Ann  Posted: 26/07/2006 01:14

Yes Maggie, a School Bus in the middle of the school holidays. Now whether they were on an outing or what, I don't know but it definately was a school bus & the driver was on his mobile. The only reason I actually noticed it was because it swung out from a side road onto a main road & because the driver was obviously not paying due heed, he swung right into my side of the road, causing me to pull in to avoid him hitting me. Personally, the only way this new law regarding the use of mobile phones in vehicles can be implemented is to make it part of the NCT test that hands free sets are installed in all vehicles otherwise it will not be enforceable. I didn't get out to ask him why he was driving a school bus in July but thats what I seen. All I was trying to say was that even though I agree with not using mobiles whilst driving, it is again, another very difficult law to implement as if there are no Gardai around to see for themselves it is not something that can be policed. Naturally if someone is driving and using their mobile phone, and they see a police check point up ahead they will hang up immediately so without the proof, there is no case.

Mary  Posted: 26/07/2006 09:06

I only wish I had Bear, or you had or somebody had. If you read my post again you will see that I did NOT say that there was a fast lane ona dual carriageway, quie the opposite actually, - that it was an overtaking lane. That said, the majority of the latest spate of accidents, did not, as far as know, happen on motorways or dual carriageways.

Mary  Posted: 26/07/2006 12:57

Ann, I think that\'s an excelent idea about fitting universal hands-free devics into all new cars and making it compulsory for the NCT. Should be fairly easy to implement too. The car companies won\'t complain and niether will the mobile companies.

Bear  Posted: 26/07/2006 14:42

Mary by definition, an overtaking lane is a fast lane, and as you can see in my post I say that duel carriageways are the only roads in this country that you can lawfully pass on the inside, so which is the fast and slow lane on a duel carriageway? As for fitting universal hands-free devices into all new cars and making it compulsory for the NCT, what all those people that have no interest in having a mobile or even their own with them while they are out driving, and you certainly would not think that manufactures will do this out of the kindness of their hearts. Blue tooth is just as easy to use and cheaper.

Mary  Posted: 26/07/2006 16:43

I don't know anyone, either in my unit at work or among my extended family or friends who dos not own a mobile and never drivesa car. Remember not everyone can be relied upon to invest in bluetoot off their own bat and not all mobiles are compatible with it.

Ann  Posted: 26/07/2006 18:51

Although I agree totally with the new law re. mobiles. I can't for the life of me see how they will enforce it. Between that & the smoking ban all these laws that people openly flaunt will only lead to a disrespect in the long run for law & order. Today I saw someone obeying the law. Her phone obviously rang so she stopped her car right there & then. If I hadn't been paying attention I would have rear ended her car so is this a new hazard? If only they would modify these laws before they bring them in, then there would be no grey areas.

Mary  Posted: 27/07/2006 09:16

I wasn't aware that people have been fluanting the smoking ban - openly or otherwise. As for the mobile phones. I would have thought that the loical safe thoing to do, when your mobile rings in the car, is indiate and pull in where you can do so, safely. Not just jam-on.

fifi  Posted: 27/07/2006 09:47

Ann you have a point there. What if someone is expecting an important phone call and it comes in while they are driving. They are going to suddenly veer off the road in order to answer it and God knows what kind of new problems that will cause.

Bear  Posted: 27/07/2006 14:47

I also know a lot of people that have mobile phones, and the vast majority of them throw their mobiles on the kitchen counter when they arrive home, they don't want to be bothered by them anymore, there are very few mobiles now that are not compatible with Blue tooth, the main problem is when people are buying them they get an ear piece with the wrong version of blue tooth! 1.1 for a 2.2 version or visa versa. There 2 different versions of blue tooth, but instead of just going out and buying, you should also bring you phone to a good phone store and you will then get a proper match at well over half the price of a hands free kit. I have used both and the blue tooth is a lot less dangerous to use. Hands free tends to be used to make outgoing calls as well, and that is like reading while driving, with the blue tooth you can throw the phone on the back seat, which lead you to have to stop to make a call or just leave it until the next time you stop. I think Ann has just hit the nail on the head, people just don't pay attention on the roads any more, too busy looking at what is going on around them.

LifeHandle  Posted: 28/07/2006 03:15

Lets suppose someone gets a call and the caller blurts out there has been a death in the family. I want the driver to be stopped with the handbrake on .... not hands free, blue-toothed or otherwise.

Direct  Posted: 28/07/2006 10:35

I just want to add my twopence worth here. My view is that penalties are not severe enough. We need an immediate provision to cut current road deaths. it's simple. 12 points should be reduced to 6 points and the period should be one year. And most importantly, you loose your vehicle. The vehicle is sold and revenue from it is either assigned to charity or to some other worthwhile civil or charitable cause...Also, you are off the road also for the year Hit them where it hurts, pockets and liberty/flexibility

Mary  Posted: 28/07/2006 10:54

Good point life Handle

Chana  Posted: 28/07/2006 10:55

I don't think any govt could pull of something like that Direct - legislation wise. It is effectively, the govt STEALING someones car worth 10's of thousands, which they have worked and paid for, sellign it against their will and keeping the money.

Direct  Posted: 28/07/2006 12:58

Chana, If I own a gun and misuse it,the govt/legal authority can take it off me and take my license. I bought the gun, I got the license, etc. Similarly with a car. Both are deadly weapons when misused or put into the wrong hands

Chana  Posted: 28/07/2006 13:47

Yes but they don't sell your gun and keep the profits and a gun doesn't cost 20,000

Bear  Posted: 28/07/2006 14:12

Well for one thing it's not an automatic right to own a gun

Bear  Posted: 28/07/2006 14:17

Come on LifHandeke, what dumb nut would tell someone news like that over the phone, on the road or not. Would be differant if they were in a differant country where they could be reached by any other means.

Bear  Posted: 28/07/2006 14:41

Well for one thing it\'s not an automatic right to own a gun, you have to be scrutinised by your local garda, anyone can own a car, not so with a gun. There is many a person that have been refused permission to own a gun.Not because \"they\" were unsuitable. but they had no permission to hunt on anyone\'s land if they had no land of their own Chalk and cheese??? And you are correct Chana they can\'t sell your gun. But I know some people that have spent up to 30.000 euro on their gun believe it or not. My own cost me 2400.00 euro, so they are like anything else, they can be as costly as what you are prepared to spend. Same as with a car.

LifeHandle  Posted: 28/07/2006 16:38

I was told over the phone that my dad had died. My sister got the news from my brother, went into hysterics and just rang screaming down the phone that dad had died. Lots of people don't have the capacity to think in those situations.

Bear  Posted: 28/07/2006 16:54

Point taken LifeHandle.

Headtheball  Posted: 28/07/2006 17:00

The issue is driver training. The vast majority of Irish drivers no little about the vectors acting on a car as it goes around a bend. Nor do they understand stopping distances etc. A two week full time training course is the answer. Paid for by the individual, not the state. In Poland the driving coarse costs €300 where the average weekly wage is €50. The cost in Germany is around €600.

Bear  Posted: 28/07/2006 17:29

Headtheball looks like we are going to get that here now, along with a 50mph speed limit for L drivers, and not before time if it does come about. This has been my point all along, drivers do not know or understand the rules governing the new road structures that are coming in placeat present. This also applies to older drivers that have never had any experiance in motorway driving, how to use a roundabout properly, which is why a few nights at the local technical collage for apdate on their knowlage of some of these new rules would not go astray. You can't blame someone for doing something wrong if they do not know they are doing wrong.

spark  Posted: 30/07/2006 01:00

i thing that under 25,s should only be able to drive a 1 litre cars also before anyone gets there first licence the should have to put in about 6 months lessons then their exam and cars should,nt be made to go faster then the speed limit

Direct  Posted: 31/07/2006 09:54

Looks like the last few posters believe in the carrot instead of the stick approach. The minority who are ignoring the rules of the road, taking the risks (knowingly or unknownlingly("we are not being trained properly")will never respond to carrot approaches. These people exist and apply similar attitudes to other aspects of life. Incentives need to be firm and direct

Mary  Posted: 31/07/2006 10:16

Spark, do you think that once a person hits 25 they suddenly get the sense to handle a bigger car? Incidentally every car on the road, even the 750CC ones can do more than the speed limit.

Bear  Posted: 31/07/2006 15:43

spark, Limiters have been around for years on HGV and PSV's it is a very simple opperation to disable them, and especialy younger generation, that would be more understanding of this type of opperation, so it can never work, unless you can get manufacturers to build cars that will not do any more than the speed limit, and I am afraid that would be a non starter. This whole topic has been taken over by the notion that young drivers are responsable for all the accidents, Well I have been driving coaches since 1980 and I was 34yrs old starting, During that period I have come across hundreds of accidents, as any other driver that is on the road all the time will have, fatal and otherwise, and I can honestly say that the vast majority of them involved older people, so I do believe that we need to give younger drivers a bit of a break here. When there is an accident involving young drivers we see the papers full of the reports about them. But during any given day there a lot of very serious accidents that never make the papers. People may not have been killed but a lot of them suffer very substantial injuries.

Headtheball  Posted: 01/08/2006 16:24

You missed my point direct. While speed is said to cause the vast majority of deaths on Irish roads, it is in fact the combination of speed and ignorance that causes said deaths. It is not about carrots it's about education.

Direct  Posted: 02/08/2006 11:34

My point headtheball is that knowledge through education or otherwise will not remove the ignorance that a certain proportion of drivers have. Certain individual are ignorant on/off the road but clearly on the road ignroance manifestation is where it is most lethal. This is where I believe severe penalties as i mentioned previously are required. If sale of car is legally not possible, then impounding of vehicle for duration of suspension should be possible. No one gets to use the car. Harsh but at least it makes drivers think twice about the repercussions of their speed/dangerous driving will have on their own families/friends

colly  Posted: 02/08/2006 14:18

I think that the main reasons for accidents and road death in this country are down to to things. The first is drink, how many people do you hear being killed at 3 in the morning at the weekend? The second factor is the poor quality of the roads, how many of these road deaths happen on a motorway or dual carragway? As for male drivers not getting insured on anything till they're 25, theres no way you could bring than in. Or maybe limit them to a 1 liter? I don't see that as the problem either because 1 liters are few and far between in the US but I seriously doubt they have the number of road deaths per head of population as us. Why? Because they have better roads.

Headtheball  Posted: 02/08/2006 16:17

By use of the word ignorance I refer to its primary meaning: 'lack of knowledge', rather than its secondary meaning:'Rudeness through lack of knowledge of good manners'. And thus, education will indeed remove ignorance and hence lessen road deaths(refer to my first point 28-07). I would however agree with you to a point, if someone is constantly getting involved in accidents servere penalties should be employed. I do not believe in taking away peoples cars for one or two speeding incidents. On another point, although road deaths are high in Ireland, we have more cars and drive more miles than almost any other europeans. Does anybody know if miles driven per capita is proportional to number of accidents/deaths.

Anonymous   Posted: 02/08/2006 17:05

Recently a cyclist was in a cycle lane. He stopped at lights as he was going on straight. The left feeder light turned green and a truck turning crushed the cyclist. Here road design was at least partly to blame. Speed in itself does not kill. Motorways where the speed is the highest are the safest roads. The national routes , some of which are little more than country lanes have too many vehicles, travelling at too high speeds, travelling too close. We need a policy similar to health and safety at work- a look at all causes. We need to have a policy of education, enforcement and engineering.

coco  Posted: 03/08/2006 09:18

Young mail drivers seem to bee the big offenders when it comes to risky driving. I also have witnessed the old lady syndrome when I was driving behind a car travelling slowly but it was hogging the centre of the road!

jd  Posted: 05/08/2006 01:33

Bear, You cannot pass on the inside on a motorwaY or a dual caariageay, except if the traffic is moving in queues, or , on a dual carriageawy, traffic in the lane to the right is turning right. I f someone is needlessly in the overtaking lane and I want to pass him I put on my indicators, if no reaction I flash him.

Bear  Posted: 06/08/2006 04:52

JD Go back and learn the rules of the road, Number 1 Trafic can't turn righ on a moterway, Do you accept that??? Where do you turn right to??? Number 2 if there is traffic turning right on a duel carriageway EVEN IF IT IS A HALF MILE AHEAD THERE IS NO PROBLEM PASSING ON THE INSIDE. Not so on a moterway, hence my suggestion that some people should go back to a weekly class in their local collage to learn the basics of driving on the new road structures in Ireland. Mororways ,Etc.

Anonymous   Posted: 07/08/2006 16:48

I fully agree with all the comments about young male drivers. Young male drivers most of whom have a full licence by the way because they pass their test with flying colours as they are so brave and confident about their driving, they can park in the tiniest space, know every sign and traffic situation better than the instructor etc,etc but when they get to the open road espicially at night with friends in the car their ability is lost in their need to show off their brillant driving skills. I drive a lot at night and day and see them. Also I see a lot of people using mobile phones, I met five yesterday in a short distance to town. A mobile needs a lot of consentration to use and no one can safly drive and use a mobile at the same time.

jd  Posted: 08/08/2006 17:45

Read what I said again."**or** , on a dual carriageway, traffic in the lane to the right is turning right." I never mention turning right on a motorway. Otherwise, you can overtake on the left if traffic is moving on queues. On Motorways,you should not sit in the overtaking lane if you are not overtaking. DRIVING ON THE MOTORWAY The normal “keep left” rule applies. This means that you stay in the left hand lane unless you are overtaking. The outside lane is for overtaking only and a vehicle should move back into the inner lane when the overtaking manoeuvre is completed. DRIVING ON DUAL CARRIAGEWAYS On dual carriageways, the normal requirement to drive on the left hand side except when overtaking or turning right applies. The outer lane of a two-lane dual carriageway should be used only – - For overtaking - When intending to turn right a short distance ahead. The outer lane of a three-lane dual carriageway should only be used for overtaking or when it is intended to make a right turn a short distance ahead.

Katie(KatieMary)  Posted: 11/08/2006 18:44

Lack of proper driver education. In the US, drivers under 18 must take an approved driver education course which involves classroom instruction and driving over several weeks. A certificate from the driver ed course must be presented at the testing center. If someone fails the driving tst, they walk home or have a licensed driver rake them home. People with provisional licences are not allowed to drive without a qualified driver with them. And in some states, drivers have to take a new test every few years to keep up their skills and learn new legislation.

thepokerqueen  Posted: 18/08/2006 15:46

people that just don't know how to drive.....some people think they can but they haven't got a clue, and old people that don't even go the speed limit, they should be getting stopped because that really annoys people..

observer  Posted: 21/08/2006 10:41

3 things stick out to me. 1. Young people, especially males but not only males, dont apreciate danger fully and dont have skills learned by education or experience. R plates as in NI restrict their top speed to 50mph for a couple of years after getting a full licence, in some juristictions they are also restricted to daylight hours or an early evening curfew. 2. Courtesy and defensive driving should be encouraged by road notices [as done elsewhere] advising drivers to get up to full speed quickly in the lead-in roads before when joining a dual carrigeway and keeping to the left lane or left side of single lane roads when not overtaking. 3. L drivers should certainly have speed restrictions and curfews but should be allowed on motorways. Enforcent of basic rules and education such as these by Gardai is neccessary for any progress to be made

Chana  Posted: 21/08/2006 14:03

Observer, could you honestly see a daylight curfew working here in winter. Sure how would people get to work?

Tom  Posted: 05/09/2006 13:29

It is amazing the ignaorance and scapegoating on this subject. If we are top be honest with ourselves we would admit that we have broken the rules of the road from time to time and none of us are perfect. We all need to pick up the rules of the road book and read them again. We also need to slow down a little, just a little. If you think you know the rules of the road and are a good driver, you are part of the problem of road deaths in this country. If you dont believe me, read the rules of the road again and tell me if you knew them all and adhere strictly to them all the time. I'm talking here about young, old, male, female, Irish, non Irish.

NM  Posted: 18/09/2006 15:22

Speed is the biggest contributing to road accidents in Ireland without a doubt. However other major contributing factors are: alcohol, non-nationals driving non-nct'd left-hand-drive cars - mostly without proper insurance... (have you ever come across one trying to overtake on a narrow"ish" road?), lorry drivers (they know you'll come off second best if you don't get out of their way) and Learner drivers, and of course there's the "idiot" who doesn't necessarily fall into any of the above categories who puts us all (including him/herself) in danger by overtaking dangerously, or driving so close behind that you can see the colour of his/her eyes and hoping to force you onto the hard shoulder!

skenn_ie  Posted: 18/09/2006 15:32

couldn't care-less ness. about road markings, stop-lines, no-parking, using indicators, vehicle maintainnnce(esp; lights). Ahh shur' it's due for a service soon !. Speed on it's own doesn't cause accidents. Neither does not wearing seatbelts, or not carrying one's license

finn  Posted: 04/10/2006 17:08

Hi all ,I think they should put only 60 miles on cars that they cant go any faster then 60-putting like 150 miles on a car when your only allowed to do 60 at the most-so knock off the other 90 miles off the clock and only put 60 miles on,then speed will have to reduce.

skenn_ie  Posted: 04/10/2006 19:02

Today's observations. Vandriver, one foglight, holding a phone to his ear. Learner up me arse at 120k on the motorway. Driver gesturing with both hands to his passenger. Multiple "failure to indicate" when turning, and/or changing lanes. But nothing that my almost 30 years of driving experience in Ireland, UK, France, Spain, America etc didn't prepare me for. These incidents require ALL of us to make MUCH more allowance for the unexpected. Oil/loose chippings on the road. Idiots other than ourselves doing stupid things. Recognising the signs that they are about to do something silly. US idiots doing stupid things. !! I do it too sometimes, but only experience allows recovery without major problems. One being..look through over, or around the car in front of you...and the one in front of them, to see when the traffic is going to suddenly slow.............be aware of who is behind, or about to overtake you. Indicate (in good time, but not so much so as to cause confusion)EVERY time you want to change your lateral position on the road. If traffic is heavy, someone will drop back to make space for you. In light traffic, it lets others know what your intentions are, rather than confirming that you intended to do what you already ARE doing. SOme of this requires that you THINK...it is good exercise for the brain too ;-)

Elmo  Posted: 04/10/2006 19:55

A few comments regarding driving in general in Ireland: 1. The Driving test is a joke. EG In my home town there is constant gridlock. People come for their driving test they spend the first five minutes on theory. Another five minutes looking under the bonnet and checking lights. They are then taken out for the road test. This lasts for thirty to forty minutes. Ten to fifteen minutes of this is spent sitting in the traffic. So the actual test lasts around twenty minutes out one road, back in another. No dual carriageway, no slip roads, no big roundabouts. And no night driving test. So twenty minutes of driving in a 50/60km zone determines if someone is capable of going out on to the highways and byways of the country. 2. We should have a system like Australia: IE: you go from an L plate to an R plate then in twelve months you go for a second test. This would encourage new drivers to be on their best behaviour while waiting for their test. 3. Also we need a lot more unmarked Garda cars with on board cameras moving up and down our roads and then they will see the idiots doing the stupid and dangerous manoeuvres.

John(GEI53425)  Posted: 14/01/2007 16:01

speeding boy racers at 2am at weekends

JULES  Posted: 17/01/2007 05:26

Some Lorries have a maximum speed, which is monitored. All new cars should have a monitor on board, if they exceed this limit it should be registered at the garda station. All older car, should have this system implemented when going for an Nct, BUT THIS HAS TO BE SUPPLEMENTED BY THE GOVERNMENT). 1) This will not solve the problems on our Country Roads, this needs to be looked out. 2) The Garda must implement Cars that have not been put through for an NCT. This is going to involve more resources for the Garda, but at the end of the day, if the Garda can Identify, vechicles that have no NCT. The Garda, needs to identify no NCT, not talking about car owners where NCT is Due. Transfer of ownership and NCt'S WHERE NO NCT IS BOOKED FOR 3 MONTHS. THESE SHOULD BE CHECKED, AND IF FOUND NO INSURANCE THE VECHICLE SHOULD BE DESTROYED. JULES

Brìd  Posted: 17/01/2007 11:07

Do you really think an NCT is going to prevent accidents? How naieve. "Transfer of ownership and NCt'S WHERE NO NCT IS BOOKED FOR 3 MONTHS." What are you talking about exactly? No NCT doesn't stop you getting insurance. It is not the job of the insurance company to monitor NCTs. If a vehicle has no insurance, it is impounded as this is against the law. It cannot, BY LAW be destroyed as it is not the property of the state but of an independant citizen - and I'm sure the Garda are under-resourced as it is without paying out tens of thousands to people for destroying their property.

Ann  Posted: 17/01/2007 21:46

Jules, I am also as confused as Brid on your posting. What exactly are you saying about NCT's? There is an NCT database in place. When your NCT is due you get a letter to inform you and you are required to have this test done. If you don't, the NCT database will show up that you have not had the test. Even if you don't have the test within the required time, when you do have the test, it is backdated to the date that it was first needed. Finally, its nobody elses but your own loss if you don't have the NCT. If you don't have the NCT done and you are involved in an accident, then your insurance will be null and void ie. No cover. NCT's have absolutely nothing to do with road deaths. Speeding does. Young kids in ultra fast killing machines who are certainly not drinking and driving because they spend their money on other (illegal) drugs and nothing is in place to stop this happening. The only reason that country roads come into the equation is because these roads are much preferred for 'rally driving' than long straight roads. In my own village I am sick and tired of listening to them, with their modified cars, screaming around the roads at nights and even doing doughnuts in the middle of a main road. Everyone sees the results on the roads in the mornings including the police but nobody seems to be able to do anything to stop them. Insurance companies could stop this over night if they refused to insure drivers under a certain age who do not have a full licence and an extra safety test. Its easier to pick on the old lad coming home from the pub with a pint or 2 on board who is harming no one. Its nothing to do with safety, its all to do with easy targets.

Brid  Posted: 18/01/2007 16:02

Anne, he part about your insurance is not true as a matter of fact. it is only if the insurance company can have it independantly proven that something would should have been corrected in order to pass the NCT was the cuase of the accident. Ah yes Anne, the 'donuts, we have them at all three crossroads in out own (very small) village and it has been reported to the guards but to no avail. It would be legally impossible for the insurance company to refuse them insurance as well as leaving them open to discrimation threats. The extra safety test (whatever it might be) is also not a legal requirment. It is to be rememebered, Insurance companies operate for a profit. Besides a full license does not seem to stop their stupidity - this I know. And they seem well able to pay the huge premia heaped on them due to their age.

skenn_ie  Posted: 18/01/2007 17:31

1) Insurance companies should offer a reduced fee for L drivers who undertake to drive ONLY with a "qualified" driver. 2) Insurance disks should be of different colours to indicate a) One of these drivers b) A vehicle that has been declared as a modified vehicle...many boy/girl racers modify their vehicles without informing their insurance company. c) Drivers of less than a year "qualified"(R drivers). Penalty points should be quadrupled for L's, and doubled for R's. Unfortunately, by allowing drivers to drive unsupervised has bred a generation of poor drivers..they don't have the hours undersupervision to form good habits. Now, because of the general poor quality of driving, even under supervision, new drivers don't learn properly. The "gards" and the government are only paying lip-service to the problem. While speed contributes to accidents, in the right hands, it is not dangerous. Not carrying your driving license, or not wearing seatbelts doesn't even contribute to the causes, while faulty, or non/mis-use of lights, bald tyres, and simply not paying attention is almost completely ignored.

Bear  Posted: 18/01/2007 19:04

I think JULES is getting mixed up, Quote: Some Lorries have a maximum speed, which is monitored. All new cars should have a monitor on board, if they exceed this limit it should be registered at the garda station. This is the tachograph in lorries, and it is not avtualy monitored, the garda can check it when they stop a lorrie at a check point, but up to a short time ago, even if they saw that you had went over the speed limit they could not summons you. This has to do with where you were on the road when you were over the limit. Because to issue you with a traffic summons they must have the location you were when the offence was commited, "Townsland name for example" They can however summons you for over hours driving. A tachograph combines the functions of a clock and a speedometer. Fitted to a motor vehicle, a tachograph will record not only the vehicle's speed but also the length of time that it is moving or stationary. The mechanical tachograph writes on a round piece of paper which constantly turns throughout the work day. The marker moves nearer to or further from the center according to the driving speed. An entire rotation encompasses 24 hours. Analogue tachographs record the driver’s periods of duty on a waxed paper disc. However, these are vulnerable to tampering, and so are being replaced by digital tachographs which record data on smart cards. These can be a godsend or the opposite in the event of an accident. It can prove the speed you were doing, and using special equipment see how many yards it took you to stop. Brid's Comment: Quote:It cannot, BY LAW be destroyed as it is not the property of the state but of an independant citizen - and I'm sure the Garda are under-resourced as it is without paying out tens of thousands to people for destroying their property. This is not true, when your car is impounded, it costs you a certain figure to retrieve your car/lorrie, if this figure is not paid within the period laid down the car will be crushed. The vehicle is considered to be no longer your property. The impound the the garda have in my area has a crusher on site, they use a portion of a scrap yards premises. I know of many people that had their cars crushed, simply because the car they owned was not worth the recovery and impound fee. When the the guarda relieve you of your car, they use a local recovery service to bring it to "their" compound, and you have to pay for this as well as your retrieval fine.

Brid  Posted: 19/01/2007 08:35

Skein, I'm not sure where you're coming from but there are no 'R' drivers in this country. Once you are qualified, you are qualified. As for doubling penalty points. Surely, these should be lower for L drivers as they are only learning or they should just recieve a warning the first time. SPEED KILLS. While you may be excellent at driving at high speed with good reactions, can you be certain that everyone else on the road is, as well?

skenn_ie  Posted: 19/01/2007 19:17

My reference to "R" drivers implied that there should be such a category, and my comment about fast driving meant that on an open road, in good conditions...someone doing 140k is likely to be less likely to cause an accident than an inexperienced driver doing 80k on a winding country road, or weaving in and out through traffic. I wouldn't say that my reactions are better than most..but that I drive at a speed appropriate for the conditions. I wonder..the majority who voted "for" speeding...do they mean exceeding the speed limit, or excessive speed for the situation. The former is a technical offense, the latter is just poor judgement, which manifests itself in many different ways.

Tom  Posted: 23/01/2007 13:40

Bear, lorry drivers can still be prosecuted if the tacograph shows them doing over 50mph (80kph) as this is the top speed limit that lorries are permitted to travel regardless of any road. There can still be successful prosecutions brought if tacographs show higher speeds which will more often than not be the case. On open roads, I rarely see lorries travelling at or below the 80kph speed limit.

skenn_ie  Posted: 23/01/2007 16:40

Any vehicle with a trasiler, plus coaches are prohibited from exceeding 80k. They are also prohibited from using the RH lane on motorways. Half the "gards" don't know how to read the tachographs(which could be taken as an indication of their intelligence). The other half can't be bothered to, maybe because the courts hand down such trivial fines !. There are only about 5 offences that ARE enforced to any degree. 1) Drunk driving 2) Illegal parking(that doesn't mean dangerous, just in places marked as prohibited!). 3) Tax. 4) Insurance. and occasionally, 5) Speeding...as in exceeding the speed limit..not driving too fast for the conditions, or the road. Even then, doing 100k on a country road(where the limit is now 80) isn't likely to be penalised

Sadie(sadiekilgallon)  Posted: 10/03/2007 21:45

aacombination of speed,badly trained drivers & the worst roads in the eu

Sadie(sadiekilgallon)  Posted: 12/03/2007 15:00

Badly trained drvers,very bad roads & signage & reckless speeding on our roads

robbo  Posted: 25/04/2007 16:17

Boy racers and others with their big fancy cars! These people only look after themselves no consideration for others.my advice to anyone driving is keep an eye for the oncoming traffic cause you don't know when some tool will try and overtake on a dangerous stretch and wham into you that was doing nothing wrong..

ray  Posted: 25/04/2007 16:58

Personally I think many drivers have learning difficulties. If you do not understand that driving at high speeds, drinking and driving, taking drugs and driving and using a mobile phone and driving is extreemly dangerous then their has to be a problem with your comprehension and understanding of how to drive safely on the roads. Statistics show that these are some of the more common causes of fatal road accidents yet people still engage in these very dangerous behaviours. It must come down to their inability to understand the danger they put themselves in and more importantly other people in when they engage in this reckless behaviour. Its absolute madness that so many people get killed on our roads eaach year simply because other people do not have the ability to understand that their actions are extremely dangerous.

maura(qualan)  Posted: 26/04/2007 08:15

Bad Roads, Bad behaviour, Left hand driven cars, Drivers from other countries that are used to driving on the 'other' side, Drink, Drugs, Mobile phone useage - L Drivers driving alone, defective vehicles, Aggression, not in any particular order. More Laws will not change anything only make it more punitive for your normal car user whilst those that do not care will still adhere to their policies. Bottom line here is that we need someone to stand on the roads and haul in those with defective lights, mucky rgistration plates which avoid camera detection, cameras in bus lane to take registration numbers etc.etc. Its quite wearysome out there on the roads. But then more attention and money is spent in this area to try and prevent 400/500 deaths a year, and we have the same number of deaths each year with Suicide and not a fraction of the same money is spent in this area. Oh, I can feel a depression coming on in thinking how we are in this Celtic Tiger Economy. I had the misfortune to attending with my sister in A&E some weeks ago, I had to stand beside her for 10 hours, there was no chair available, this of course is all about me...she was seen to eventually, thats another story!!! what I saw that day sickened me to my stomach, men and women on trollies down the hallways of St.James's Hospital. O God, help us, and this is 'first' world. Surely it would not be much different in a 'third' world???? Good, I feel somewhat better getting out those thoughts!! Let not any politician come to my door. Maura

To join the discussion, register by clicking here