Hi Jeanne, if both Tashra and TMB say that they have exhausted every option prior to hysterectomy then why do you thinbk either of us has any right or need to second guess them?
I'm not sure whaere you are not referring to hysterectomy as an "industry" in this country is aout as accurate as referring to reproductive healthcare as "the contraceptive industry". It makes no sense. Here, as I have said repeatedly it makes no sense for a surgoen to a keep women inthe dark about a procedure for which he can refer her., These referrals are commonplace here - in all aspects of medicine. If you scroll back I beloeve Tshra did explian the reasons foir her hysterectomy. I don't know about TMB tho. However referring to hysterectomy as "castration" is simply not accurate. If you are referring to oophorectomy, I don't think either women mentioned needing to have this done also. Also as both wopmen are many weeks post surgery and don't have the problems your friend experienced, her experience is not relevant to them. If her surgeon didn't explain ALL the risks - as is required for ant elective procedure and must be stated prior to signing the consent form, then he was acting unprofessionally and possibly negligently. Aas is alos the case if he didn't outkienb all the options. Altho there is notign wrogn wit any patient researchign and gettign second opinions themselves. In nfact second opiniosn are something even a GP will arrange for you. Aas for having ones sexulity taken away, not only is this incorrect it is frankly bordering on insulting. Do you think having a womb is the only thing that makes you female? Do you think uterine cancer victims are sexless? While I, again, sympathise with the problems you are experiencing ad urge to seek all the redress you can, I too know 6 ot 7 women who have had hysterectomy and one of whom had an oophorectomy. It is only the latter women who is having prolems. She had her surgery due to cancer, sadly and as a result as not suitable for HRT. She went into premature (medical) menopause in her mid-40's as a result. But like much of medicine, it is a case of weighing up the pros and cons. Are the risks of surgery worth the benefits - in her case being cancer-free and living to see her children grow up. And also weighing up the result of not having surgery and living with health problems (sometimes severly life altering ones) with the benefits of having whatever problem it is, rectified.No-one would dubt that such radical surgery as hysterectomy and definitely oophorectomy needs very careful consideration as does any major surgery and both patient and doctor should do research into alternatives, be fully informed and seek reliable informed second (or third) opinions. Therefore any doctor who is still blindly promiting it to women - or any surgery is doiugn a disservice to patients.
If you look back at earlier posts you will see that in my case ALL options were exchausted, Also please credit me with some intelligence I read everything I could about my condition and researched all I could before my op.
Hysterectomy really is the only option in some cases.
Could you and Nora PLEASE..get off the soapbox and keep your negative opinions to yourselves.
I know woman need to know the options available but your comments are getting downright insulting to woman on here who have made that decision and are happy with it.
By all means give your opinon when asked for it..but I don't think you were asked for it here and how many times do you both need to be told..IN IRELAND COST DOES NOT COME IN TO THE DECISION ON WHETHER DO DO A HYSTERECTOMY OR NOT...you don't seem to know the way the health system works here so you have no right to comment on it!
I came on here for a little advice and to share experiences,but, the likes of you and Nora would put anyone off so I shall not bother to look here for advice and I feel sorry for any poor woman who may be worried and looking for support here before an operation she may really need! Or after an op for that matter as she would be made to feel a failure!
Nora, these women have already said they had exhausted all other options (this was what they said and I see no reason to disbelieve them) regarding their conditons and their lives having formerly been extremely difficult with very poor quality has been transformed, folloiwing what they have wrutten about as being a very successful recovery, into the lives they should be enjoying. Therefore logically, the medical decsions have bene the right ones in their case. I think TMB and Tashra, you would both agree on this. If thy are happy and agree it was a sicessful ant thy medical specialists agree also. then how on earth can you presume, given all those involved are happy with the decsion, that it is either unreliable or irresponsible - simply, you cannot.In my experience of surgeons as I have already said, in Irleand anyway, they are most willing to discuss optionds of which they themsleves do not have experience and referring women for such, is routine, all over the country, and not just in gynae areas.
Without the information required for such a judgment, you have told two women on this blog that hysterectomy was the right choice. You do not have the facts about their medical conditions, and without knowing whether they were told of all of the alternatives in treatment, and the aftereffects of the surgery, your statement is not only unreliable, it’s irresponsible.
I am glad that TMB and Tashra feel good that they have had hysterectomies, but that doesn’t mean that they would necessarily have made the same choice if they had been told all of the alternatives in treatment (just because doctors say the’ve told a woman all of the options doesn’t mean that they actually have, nor are they likely to tell women of treatment in which they themselves do not have expertise). Nor were they told that the uterus is a hormone-responsive, reproductive sex organ that provides structural support to the bladder and bowel, or that their vagina would be shortened, sutured closed at the top, and made into a closed pocket, or that they would not be able to experience uterine orgasm without a uterus. It’s also unlikely that they were told that when the uterus is removed women have a 3 times greater incidence of heart disease, and when the ovaries are removed it’s 7 time greater.
In the effort to be kind to those who have undergone hysterectomy and want to feel good about the decision they made, we should not gloss over, withhold, or deny the irrefutable anatomical facts about the damaging effects of the surgery. If we allowed such statements to stand uncorrected, unsuspecting women who have been told they need a hysterectomy would not know the well-documented medical facts about the consequences of the surgery.
Removal of the female organs is serious and the effects are permanent. Women have every right to full, accurate information before they are told to sign a surgical consent form to have their female organs removed.
The H Word at hersfoundation.org
I agree with Jeanne, you need to know all the facts before the surgery. For example you have had to have a repair to hold up the vagina. Do you know which one you had done? If you don’t your doctor did not fully inform you of the entire surgery. I know of three types of repair there might be more. Did the doctor give you a choice which one you wanted and which one was the most conservative? Or did the doctor do what ever he wanted?
Helloall, there are differing views on here alright. TMB and Tashra., yu are two ladies for whomn he hysterectomy ewas absolutley the right choice. You had exhausted all other options and having it has improved your quality of life enormously and I think for all the negatives Nora or jeanne present , theexample of what the surgery achieved for you both must always be kept in mind in order to have some perspective in the discussion.
That's great Tashra and a co-incidence as I am about to book a trip to the uk to see my daughter as I was not able to go since she moved over there last year.
I'll check out the site ..thanks
Yes tmb i really agree with you, it is very negative on here, i go to another site which is uk based and it's really good, it the hysterectomy-association.org and all the ladys there are really freindly there, look it up :-D. I too went down every route and this was the final thing and am very glad it worked. We are now in the process of boooking a holiday to go see mu Mum and Dad in the Uk which i would never have been able to do before due to all the awful problems i had as i'm sure you know all about yourself :-D.
Take care too x
Hi Tashra...so glad to hear you are so well.
I don't like the way, everything has gone so negative about hysterectomy on here,but I too only check in now and again to see how you and Patti are doing.
I for one am so glad I had the hysterectomy,my life was a misery before it.
I know it's not for everyone but I had tried everything and it really was a last resort,so I can be happy that all that could be done was done before I along with my doctor decided a hysterectomy was the way to go.
Will check in again with you in a few weeks:) Take care.
Hi Kiwi, a good friend of moine had ecxactly the same - which is why I knew about it - shehad the same repaits in atddition to having the ligaments re-attached and she also had pain. Whhat happened in her case was that the scar tissue (from an episiotomy years ago due to a very traumatic birth) had formed adhesions where the repair was done. when she went back to her surgeon for a 3 month check up (she didn't realise the problem existed at the 6 week mark, naturally enough) he performed a fentons procedure to release the scar tissue. Apparently this is not uncommon in women who have had emergency episiotomies. I know episiotomies have fallen into disuse for many years in mdern medicine but unfortunately she had one performed may many (unenlightened) years ago.
Hi tmb, really glad to hear that you are doing well. Sounds like you are taking a very sensible aproache with the walking but still resting when needed. Don't even attempt the hoovering though for at least another 6 or so weeks. I am doing really well, i feel fantastic and fell like i never had an op now :-D 12 weeks after for me. Am back to doing everything and more than i did before, all housework (unfortantly lol) and exercise, shopping everything really :-D. Am soooo glad myself that i had it done and did not continue to live my life in the awful way i had to before. Shame this site has gone off down a very intense route, oh well i only look in from time to time to see how your doing. Best wishes for the continuation of your excellent recovery .
Hi Anonymous I have had an anterior cystocele and posterior rectocele repair. Would you know why they cause pain during intercourse?
What repairs did you have done for your surgery?
Hi Kiwi, a great informative post there in your last one. From what I am aware, altho this might have changed inthe very recent times, here usually the vagina is reattached to the uterosacral ligaments, tho others may be involved of course. As for as I know tho where prolapse is very severe (and beleive me this does occur, sadly) an anterior cystocoele and posterior rectocoele repair may need to be done in addition to this.
For Tashra and Patti..................
How are you both doing? I am recovering well,going for a walk every evening about 15 - 20 mins for now. Also doing a little bit round the house,dusting and dishes really.still no hoovering etc.
Five weeks since my surgery now and feeling well.A little sore round where my scar is and just above it..more tight than sore really. I still go for a rest and put the feet up if I get tired or the stomach muscles start to ache at all.
Still haven't been for my follow on check up yet should be in the next couple of weeks. So glad I had the op though.
Hope you are both doing well
Kiwi, perhaps you are not in possesion of all the facts but under the Irish publiuc health system, the salary for a gynecological surgeon IS the same regardless of procedures done. Perhaps oyur surgeon was too lazy -either to do the surgery or to refer you to a surgeon who could. If your doctor did not explain the surgery then she as acting in a most unprofessional manner - likewise from peventing your sister from attending a consutation with you. Is IS up to your doctor to explain all these things, that is your right. A hysterectomy is not an inevcitability froma prolapse ans there are a number of other treatment options. A hysterectomy IS a vail method of treatment but ONLY as a last resort.
if any uterine or vaginal prolapse is present, ask the doctor what tissues the vagina will be reattached to to prevent it from falling down again. Usually the answer will include either the uterosacral ligaments, the sacrum or the sacrospinous ligament. If the doctor suggests you should not worry about the precise method of suspension or just suggests a vaginal hysterectomy with an anterior cystocoele and posterior rectocoele repair, it might be prudent to get a second opinion. That does not mean these procedures are not effective, but they can be a marker for a surgeon who is not following the recent literature close http://www.wdxcyber.com/nurine08.htm
I would like to say a BIG THANKS to you, I had a Hysterectomy 8 years ago and it was only 3 years ao that I found out that my Ovaries were taken as well, you are the first person that has made sense to me in all this time, I am a semi invalid since the surgery and I have relentless chronic pain, I got a infection the day after the Hysterectomy and it was not treated, I was sent home with a prescription in my hand, the infection did not clear up and I was back and forteh to the Family Doctor, 4 weeks after surgery a lump of rotten flesh came out of me and I am not the same person since, the rotten flesh did a lot of damage and I have had 2 surgeries since to try and correct the damage but I am left in a awful way, I too was not told that they were doing a radical Hysterectomy, and I was not told that I could end up the way I am.
When all this happened my Family Doctor told me to go and see a Solicitor and now 8 years down the road he says there is no case to answer, and does ot want to be involved anymore because I do not have the finances to back me up, He told me to feel free to go on the Pat Kenny show or whatever I like, I will never accept that this was done to me and that I am left to live like this, If I was a animal I would be put out of my misery.
I have a question for you, do you know of someone I could talk to, I just feel so alone like this, or I was until I read your posts, I am in dire need of help, I cannot go to any Hospital for help as other Doctors to not want to get involved with someone else's bad work.
Would be very grateful for any information,
You write salary is consistent regardless. No it is not the same. If it was the same why didn’t the doctor do a myomectomy for me? She was too lazy? The doctor did not do what was best for me. She did it for money! Before my hysterectomy the doctor told me she might have to do vaginal repairs. I asked her twice and she told me to wait and see what she finds when she gets in. After surgery the doctor never explained to me what she had done to me. I took my sister in with me to the post-op appointment and she purposefully didn’t let my sister in the room. I asked the nurse twice to go get my sister and she didn’t. I have no explanation of the repairs or the surgery I had done. From what I read they usually do vaginal repairs for prolaps of the vagina during a hysterectomy. If they don’t then the patient usually comes in later for prolapse, if I understand this right. You loose support from having a hysterectomy. I had to do my own research. I have asked every doctor that I have seen (which are many) how the repairs where done and why I am in pain from these repairs. I can’t seem to get a doctor to tell me. Can you explain why not? Why do I have to do research to get my answers? Why hasn’t a doctor referred me to a doctor who will explain to me what was done and why I am still in pain? One of the repairs that were done to me is not on the consent form and there is nothing I can do about it. You say without informed consent is acting in a gravely unprofessional manner, I agree. Yes, doctors should always inform their patients but they don’t. kiwi
Thank you for the clarification as tothe type of prolapse you were referring to but be aware that sometimes wwith severe chronic unresponsive uterine prolapse then hysterectomy(not with oophorectomy obviously unless there are profound medical reasons why this should be performed also) the only remaining treatment - a treatment of last resort if you will, after other options have all been tried and failed. Where the surgeon does not referred it is the surgeon who is at fault - NOT the operation. Any doctor who removes ovaries without very good medical reason (such as cancer) and without informed consent is acting in a gravely unprofessional manner. Endometrial abalation if performed properly and with due care should NEVER be damaging. In fact HERS website lists it, if I am correct as an alternative to hysterectomy in some circumstances - an opinion I would agree with as it preserves the uterus. Where hormoinal therapy, Mirena IUS and D&C failed, as they can do, in cases of persisent chronic menstrual hemorhage, what other treatment do you think exists other than endometrial ablation (by laser) - other than the drastic option of hysterectomy? The endometrium from where the hemorhage ensures is lasered (burned) away, leaving only a small strip thus the bleeding, in most cases is remedied. Yes, doctors should always inform their patients but increasingly it is becoiming most advantageous to educate and empower oneself as a patient.
I thought perhaps you are an M.D., but you are unaware that rectocele (prolapse of the rectum into the vagina) is a common result of hysterectomy, as is prolapse of the pelvic floor.
HERS has counseled many women who are in the Irish Medical System who who had fibroids and were not referred to surgeons who could have removed their fibroids and left the uterus intact. Rather, they were told hysterectomy was the only option, and they were not told the consequences of hysterectomy. Unfortunately, this is the case in most countries. At HERS last Hysterectomy Conference, in Atlanta GA in November 2009, there were women from all over the world, including Ireland, Ecuador, England, and Chile. All of them had undergone hysterectomy with removal of their ovaries, all without the information required for informed consent.
With regard to endometrial ablation, it is a damaging surgery, there are better treatment options for heavy menstrual bleeding. When the cause of the bleeding has been evaluated, treatment can be given that will remedy the problem. Endometrial ablation scars by burning the inside layer of the uterus, the endometrium, but it does not remedy the cause of the bleeding, and ablation is a destructive procedure.
As far as educating oneself is concerned, it is the responsibility of the doctor who went to medical school to informed their patients. One should not be expected to gain that knowledge in order to have the information needed to make decisions about their health. Many people don't have the vocabulary or understanding of medical terms to be able to research and process the huge amount of information on the internet, and to sort out which is pure promotion and which is anatomical and medical fact. A person should be able to not speak the same language, or be mentally retarded, and not be abused by a doctor.
The H Word at hersfoundation.org
Kiwi, the doctors remuneration as regards hysterectomy vs myenectomy is irrelevant in the public health system where the salary is consistent regardless. It sounds tho' that your doctor behaved appallingly and there is a clear case for medical misconduct. As for prolapse after hysterectomy - how could this be possible given that a prolapse is a prolapse of the uterus and after hysterectomy the uterus will have been removed.Nora you are quoite simply wrong with regard to the Irish medical system. If a surgeon is ANY field doesn't have the experience or skill to perform a required surgery in his field, he will simply refer the patient to a surgeon who has. This is done routinely in every speciality all over the country, With regard to endometrial ablation, surely you would agree thgat it is a better prior option that hysterectomy? I have already agreed that educating oneself and informed consent are absolutely important and in that regard of course it is vital that a woman be fiully infomred prior to any procedure or surgery - that goes without saying.
You're responding to posts as though you have some authority, such as medical expertise. However, the information you've provided about fibroids has been wrong, consistently and dangerously so, like your suggestion of ablation. Any number and any size fibroids can be removed by gynecologists who have the skill. Of course if a gynecologist doesn't have the skill they will be unable to perform a myomectomy, and rather than tell women they don't have the skill, they usually say it can't be done. With regard to ablation, if you recommend it you should tell women the risks. Among the thousands of reported frequent complications are perforation of the uterus, burning perforation of the bowel and bladder, and persistent chronic uterine pain.
But there is another issue that I think is being overlooked. Women need factual, documentation of the risks and complications of surgery, including the permanent adverse effects. What's lacking in Anon's posts is the information women need to provide informed consent to any procedure or surgery. Rather than information your post are directive about what women should do. Women are quite capable of deciding what is best for them if they are given all of the information available so that they know what they are choosing, and what they might be trading one set of known symptoms for with another of unknown, possibly far worse, permanent aftereffects.
The H Word at hersfoundation.org
I agree with Jeanne. The fibroids can be taken out with myomectomy surgery. It sounds like the doctor doesn’t want to work hard for his money. The doctor received more money by doing a hysterectomy. When I had my hysterectomy I trusted my doctor to do what was best for me. I trusted the doctor to do no harm. I have been in pain ever since. I have seen many doctors since then with not a lot of help. Most people trust there doctor. I won’t trust another doctor ever again. I had to have my ureter tube fixed after the hysterectomy. I told the urologist I didn’t want a particular medicine because of the side effects. Well that doctor used that medicine against my wishes. I called the hospital to complain and the hospital did nothing. I am not well organized but I found some more articles for you. www.medscape.com/viewarticle/564929 . This one has to do with Urinary Incontinence after a hysterectomy. http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=123564. This article says “Can Hysterectomies Hurt Sex Lives?” The doctor I had failed to tell me all the consequences to this surgery. Why would a doctor tell you that your sex life won’t be the same. After a hysterectomy you have more of a chance of getting prolaps. Here is another article. http://www.freshpatents.com/Method-and-apparatus-for-treating-pelvic-organ-prolapse-dt20070329ptan20070068538.php. http://www.freshpatents.com/Method-and-apparatus-for-treating-pelvic-organ-prolapse-dt20051103ptan20050245787.php?type=description.
Jeanne, you would have to speak to a specialist gynaecological surgeon with experience in the field to ascertain that.
Anonymous, what are the rare cases you speak of where myomectomy won't work to remove fibroids? I've read about doctors removing 300 fibroids from one uterus, and also, very large fibroids while leaving it intact. What type cannot be removed in your opinion?
Hi Jeanne and Kiwi, tmb is in fact correct. 1. A gynae - as in a gynaecological consultant surgeon who is trained and specilaises in the area with appropriate experice is qualified to know and recommend the most suitable treatment. AS myenectomy does NOT ALWAYS work for all and any fibroids. Threre are a whole range of widely varying and multi-factorial elements to take into account in the decsion as to the best treatment approach in each individual case and there are cases, albeit rare ones where myenectomy will not work and the last resort is a hysterectomy. Yes, it is major surgery and it is life altering but persistent enlarged multiple fibroids are a major condition and can alter a womens quality of life to where she feels it is not worth living, for literelly decades. Certainly second and third opinion and doing your own research is very important. However Jeanne, to say that a gynae would perform major surgery simply becuase they are not skilled at myenectomy us simply not true (here anyway). If a surgeon beleives a patient needs a speciaity in his field at which he is not skilled, he will simply refer her to a colleague who is - this is done every day of the week by surgeons all over the country within all specialitis and is absolutely commonplace., That is common knowledge - among lay people as well as in the medical field.
Myomectomy can remove any and all fibroids if you have the right surgeon. Gynecologists who are not skilled at performing myomectomy will tell women they need a hysterectomy simply because they are not skilled to properly perform myomectomy. Plus, hysterectomy is a lot more lucrative than myomectomy. You have to hunt for a doctor who will just remove the fibroids and leave your uterus intact. As another poster stated, there is never a need for hysterectomy because of fibroids unless you have the wrong doctor.
No the doctor doesn't know what is best. A myomectomy is the best for this kind of problem. Yes it might grow back but it depends on your age. Think of the doctors as a busness deal. If you don't like what they say go some place else. Don't give them any money for something you don't want. Hysterectomies are life altering. www.susunweed.com/An_Article_hysterectomy.htm or Hersfoundation.com I will try to find more resource for you. Right now I have a physical therapy session to go to.
Hi Anna, I would ask to see the gynaecologist him/herself rather than the understudy or ask your gp for a referral to another gynae asap.
Myomectomy does not work for all fibroids a gynae is the best person to advise.
Hope you get sorted soon:)
Anna, have you asked your doctor about myomectomy, to remove your fibroids? There's no reason to remove your uterus when the fibroids can just be removed.
Hi anna, sorry to hear you'e in such awful pain. To be honest if the understudy thinks fibroids - especially ones bad enough to cause such an awful effect on your life - can be cured by exercise and yoga, she hasn't a clue what she is talking about. On referral INSIST on seeing the ACTUAL gynae - that is what you are paying for , and discuss your options. The fibrouis do sound severe if you are in pain bad enough to make you cry, cannot bend and they're growing outside the uterus. However that does not mean that hysteretomy is always defintely the only option but it may be in your particular case - however you are still best to discuss all other options, find out why they are not suitable and rule them in or out as needed. Remember if your ovaries are not affected a full hysterectomy should not include oophorectomy and should leave your ovaris intact to provide hormonal function. Do ensure you get clarifiaton on this from your gynae also.
I feel as if im going mad. A few weeks ago I was told I had a growth on my pelvis & that I would need to have an opp a.s.a.p. I was ref to a gyne & seening his understudy she said go to a gym or do yoga & if people are laughing at you dont pay any attention to them. Then I had an ultrasound 2 weeks ago & again I'm told I need a full hysterctomy as the fibroids were taking over my stomach, which a this stage I cant bend or pick up anything, I even had to go out sick from work.
I'm at the end of my patience as I cant sleep even the pains in my legs are making me cry.
please can some one give me sound advice.
Hi TMB glad all went well and your at home recovering. Make sure you rest loads in the first 2-3 weeks and then just do things at your own pace and listen to your body any twinges or aches then back to sitting down with feet up for a couple of hours, that's the way i did it. I am 8 weeks tmrw after my op and still feeling fab, am very glad i had it done, i feel like i have been given my life back to enjoy again fully. Was at the consultants on monday and all ok no worries at all made sure i thanked him again for giving me my life back. Hope your doing well xx
I am so glad to hear that your surgery went well. Just remember to take it easy and follow doctors orders and dont be shy to ask your loved ones for help.
Good Luck on a speedy recovery and God Bless.
P.S. I am now 8 weeks past my surgery and I am feeling so much better.. I am so glad I did go through with my surgery.
Hi, well I'm nine days post op now. All went well and I am doing well also, a little better everyday,came home from hospital on the sixth day.
I am relieved to have the op behind me now.
I was left with my ovaries as the doc said they looked fine.
Taking it easy doing nothing but reading,tv, a little walking just round the house and garden at the moment.
Thanks for the good wishes before I went in..hope all who have had recent surgery are doing well
LadyH, What diagnostic studies have you had performed? Have you had an ultrasound, CT scan, or MRI? If so, do you have a copy of the written reports?
The H Word at hersfoundation.org
You're welcome LadyH, if a D & C did not help and hysterocopy did not reveal anythign I would say that the cuase still needs to be investigasted but also, please conside,r just as one option, having an endometrial ablation - if of course you're sure your family is complete. It will presereve your womb and avoid you having major surgery. Do of course investigate other options as well.