Alternative medicine

1903 Comments
This discussion is now closed.
Sort by
This discussion is now closed.

6 Posts

BOD1  ·  02 Aug 2016

Thanks for your reply John I will keep this in mind.

 

1,003 Posts

John Williams  ·  31 Jul 2016

I would respectfully suggest BOD1 that you keep your money in your pocket. Salt therapy as advertised is a gross distortion of the medical uses for saline treatment. Saline solutions are used in some repiratory conditions as any asthmatic on a ventilator can tell you. It is also used as saline nose drops where dryness in the nostrils is a problem. Or as paediatric drops for a baby's sniffles.These drops can be bought in any pharmacy for a few euro. I was under the impression that advertising 'cures' for some of the complaints mentioned in the online promotion of salt therapy was illegal.

 

6 Posts

BOD1  ·  27 Jul 2016

Has anyone tried Salt Therapy for repiratory conditions ?

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  02 Jan 2014

See here http://www.boiron.com/

No an actual Homeo pathetic company. :)

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  02 Jan 2014

Bill, that french homeopathy company that sells €300,000,000 worth of it per year wouldn't happen to be Evian by any chance? lol! I see none of our alternative medicine advocates will explain how homeopathy works, I think they want to believe it just works rather than how it works. I don't think any sane adult could explain how homeopathy works and actually believe it's real.

 

1,003 Posts

John Williams  ·  22 Dec 2013

I see in today's New York Times that surgeons in the US are reporting that 20% of all liver damage is caused by unrestricted use of supplements and other alternative compounds. There are 55,000 supplements on the American market nearly all freely available and completely unregulated. The US is worse than Europe in its belief in sCAM 'medicines'.

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  18 Dec 2013

Chrisita, I don’t “believe” in anything. I follow the advice of trained scientists and doctors. The same as I follow the advice of trained mechanics when it comes to fixing my car. I also expect my clients to follow my professional advice.

This phrase of your is blatantly absurd, “People usually have very good, solid reasons for their beliefs.

How could you possibly believe that when people all over the world believe in total nonsense of every kind imaginable for no reasons at all? Do you think the 10,000 people who turned up in Wembley this year to hear David Icke speak about world leaders being alien shape shifting lizards has a basis in fact?

It’s the exact opposite, most people believe in nonsense at the drop of a hat, otherwise all religions would be dead and buried and no one would buy sCAM. There’s no basis WHATSOEVER for Homeopathy and yet one company in France sells €300,000,000 worth of it per year.

 

33 Posts

Chrisita  ·  18 Dec 2013

Bill, can you please define what you do beleive in, what treatments and therapies would you undergo yourself? Also what you regard as ineffective and why? Have you ever had a longterm illness of any sort? I love to try to understand  differing view points. People usually have very good,solid reasons for their beliefs.

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  16 Dec 2013

Christia, your statement "the health Insurance Industry does have an interest in getting us better and keeping us well", is as untrue as it is for Big Pharma, as sCAMmers call it. If no one got ill, then no one would pay for Health Insurance.

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  16 Dec 2013

On the contrary Christia, pregnancy would mean far far higher claims (and cost to my employer) so it would very much in the business interests of a health insurance company to provide cover for it - just as they do for vaccinations (including travel vaccinations) and heart health screening.

 

33 Posts

Chrisita  ·  14 Dec 2013

Unlike the pharmaceutical Industry, the health Insurance Industry does have an interest in getting us better and keeping us well. Perhaps they get a better outcome for money spent on alternative or natural medicine than allopathic medicine, as in their clients are then cured, living a healthier lifestyle and making fewer claims.  There is always a financial consideration given to decisions such as including natural remedies in standard cover.  On the other hand health insurance is really sickness insurance and prevention of pregnancy would not be considered an illness.

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  12 Dec 2013

And the irony John is, that they refuse to provide cover for contraceptive care - either short term or long term - a fundamental element of reproductive care.

 

1,003 Posts

John Williams  ·  11 Dec 2013

I have objected to the VHI about having quack medicines on their programme. A publicly owned body should not be giving credibility to quack medicines.

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  11 Dec 2013

I'm not surprised that neither of our alternative medicine users will tell us how homeopathy works. I think explaning how it works and the principle behind water memory is like trying to explain that santa lives at the north pole and delivers presents to children all over the world. i.e, not a sane adult could possibly believe it

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  11 Dec 2013

Hi Bill, I am with Laya - the cover is arranged through work, so I a) I don't have a choice of provider and b) I am not the one paying for it altho' I do pay tax on the B.I.K.

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  10 Dec 2013

I wrote to my insurance company and asked for my policy to not contain quack remedies and reduce my policy price accordingly, they refused. I think it should be mandatory for those not fooled by sCAM to have the option to opt out. sCAM after all is fraud. Which insurance company is offering Homeopathy?

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  05 Dec 2013

And not only vulnerable and gulible people John but those who are supposed to be professionals, making decsions in the health insurance companies, are now offering cover for homeopathy as a treatment.

 

1,003 Posts

John Williams  ·  05 Dec 2013
I posted this on this thread over 12 years ago and it is depressing to see how little has changed. You still have the salespersons that prey on vulnerable and gullible people and you still have the vulnerable and gullible people who believe in mumbo-jumbo.


                                   Posted: 20/02/2001 22:10

   "Why do so many health sites and so many health articles in the printed media give such prominence to alternative medicines? It is actually a misnomer to call them "medicines". In the vast majority of cases there is not a shred of evidence that these products do any good (except to the bank balance of the vendor). Serious medical web sites should ignore these latter day quacks."
 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  02 Dec 2013

Dong, "your research"? Are you some sort of Scientist? Or are you referring to Googling web sites?

Anyone who thinks some herb can perform better than a drug that has undergone millions of dollars’ worth of testing is with the birds.

Please refer us to your "research" sources, and spare us any web site selling something. [It may come as a shock to your view of humanity but there are people out there who lie online to sell stuff.]

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  02 Dec 2013

Be extremely careful with any advice to take motherwort as it can be extremely dangerous to pregnant women, anyone with a heart condition who takes any form of digoxin, clotting disorders, anyone with certain thyroid conditions and anyone taking medications which can cause drowsiness. In addition it can cause stomach upsets, which affect the efficacy of the oral contraceptive pill. As always with any medication, herb or supplement - seek your doctors' advice.

 

1 Posts

dong  ·  02 Dec 2013

According to my research,an herb found in the mint family, motherwort provides antioxidants, anti-inflammatory compounds, and a substance known as leonurine. Since leonurine appears to promote relaxation of blood vessels, motherwort is sometimes used to keep blood pressure in check and fight heart disease the leading cause of death in the United States.

So far, few scientific studies have looked at whether blood pressure can help bring blood pressure down. However, a small study published in 2011 found that the herb may benefit people with high blood pressure. After 28 days of treatment with motherwort, some patients with high blood pressure showed improvement in psychological issues related to their condition such as anxiety and depression.

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  25 Nov 2013

C, even if your local doctor was completly useless and all his treatments amounted to zilch, it still doesn't mean sCAM is of any use. There is no connection. 

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  23 Nov 2013

W, you didn’t “treat” your daughter with pure water (or pure sugar), which is what Homeopathy has to be under EU legislation. Effectively you did nothing.

We don’t know anything about this “Dr friend” you refer us to. You could be someone involved in the sCAM industry posting this as propaganda and it’s just all lies. Your “Dr friend” may regard you as one of his kooky patients and he's patronising you. He might by a kook himself. Doctors are not immune from stupidity. There was a doctor recently in Ireland charged with fraud after claiming that he could cure a teenage boy’s cancer by shining light on him. He’s been since struck off.

Infections virtually always cure themselves otherwise the human race would have died out hundreds of thousands of years ago. Your daughter probably just got better because her immune system won the batlle with the infectious agents. However occasionally they do not and anyone using Homeopathic “remedies” only, runs the risk of causing major problems. 

Yoga and Vegetarianism are mostly harmless but not particularly healthy. The children of Vegetarians can suffer from defects in their diet. It shows your lack of logic when you ask do we believe in “healthy eating” as if those that support scientifically based medicine think that unhealthy eating might be a good idea. I can assure you I have a very healthy and varied diet.

C, your generalisation as to who has a healthy lifestyle shows that your thinking at best is very woolly. The poor are unhealthy for a variety of reasons including the fact that they smoke far more than well off and well educated people and their fast food diet is often appalling. The vast majority of supplements are not alone useless but in some cases dangerous. I’ve a friend who eats supplements like smarties despite me trying to convince him he’s being conned and he has recently been diagnosed with Prostate Cancer. By coincidence I have been reading recently that some supplements cause Prostate Cancer and when I said this to him he told me knew his doctor had told him.

There’s no such things as Western Medicine, just like there’s no such thing as Western Science. There’s just the same world wide medicine based on Science. 

 

 

33 Posts

Chrisita  ·  22 Nov 2013

In response to your earlier post Bill, I feel truly sad for doctors today. Imo, they are caught up in a political and fincancial nightmare, probably perpetuated by the pharmaceutical industry, and have neither the time nor resources to properly investigate their patients simple ailments ,fully. Ten minutes later a prescription is issued and on to the next patient.  The tests permitted  and or paid for by government are very basic and must result in a pharmaceutical medication as the treatment. The "Macdonalization "of medicine, one size fits all approach.

 

33 Posts

Chrisita  ·  21 Nov 2013

Bill, A simple question, who has the best health today, and why? Not the poor who get all their healthcare for free, all pharmaceutical allopathic style of medical care. The wealthy who can afford better food and alternative style doctors and natural supplements enjoy an enhanced quality of life. In acute care and life saving accidents, western medicine has much to offer, but is very lacking in preventative and quality of life style treatments. I would like your opinion on this.

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  21 Nov 2013

Chrisita, interesting that your gp uses conventional medicine and alternative medicine to cure you, but you think the conventional medicine is a scam, and alternative medicine cures you. Wissendas, good to see homeopathic medicine worked for you. Can you give a brief outline of how the principle of homeopathy works?

 

38 Posts

wissendas  ·  21 Nov 2013

Well said Chirista. Its all about finding the treatment/life style that works for you.

I have treated my daughters ear infection very successfully with homeopathic medicine, i asked a Dr friend to look in her ears for me to ensure it was fully clear and even she said , carry on with what i was doing because it was clearly working, so for the critics , even many western trained Dr's are open to alternative medicine.

BTY , those of you who condone alternative medicine, probably condome yoga/ healthy eating/vegetariansm and the 1001 other forms of a health lifestyle. Again , your loss our gain.

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  21 Nov 2013

Christa, I can tell you with near 100% certainty that there's no sCAM treatment whatsoever that can replace chemotherapy as a cure for cancer.  One of the biggest dangers of sCAM is that people use it and die instead of using medicine. It happened to Steve Jobs. He tried sCAM and died. His doctors said they could have saved him with an operation. The head of one US hospital put it blunty, he said "Steve Jobs committed suicide".

 

33 Posts

Chrisita  ·  20 Nov 2013

I would continue to see my usual Gp who uses very scientific testing methods and natural remedies. She has cured me of all my ailments and I have never felt better in my life. Diet, vitamins, minerals,digestive enzymes and probiotics do what allopathic medicine failed to do for me. She has also helped me to avoid two surgical procedures, those body parts are working well again. Now IMO, that is real medical treatment. Not all alternative treatments work for everyone in the same way that not all allopathic treatments work for everyone either.  The side effects of chemotherapy would be very offputting for me,personally.

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  20 Nov 2013

Chrisita, if you were sick, i mean really sick, like you had a brain tumor or cancer (god forbid) would you go to your GP who's a "licensed drug pusher" or would you go to a homeopathy clinic or find out what herbal treatment could help you? If you woke up and your vision had gone, or if you lost the feeling in your legs, where would you go?

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  20 Nov 2013

Christa, you need to get a grip on reality. Doctors are our sons and daughters and our friends. The idea that they want their patients to remain unwell is so absurd.

 

33 Posts

Chrisita  ·  19 Nov 2013

Bill, I think you are the deluded one, or else you are a rare, fortunate person who has never been truly unwell. Western style medicine treats symptoms and rarely gets to the root cause of problems. Yes Wis,we are what we eat, but more importantly what we absorb. Typical medical doctors are nothing more than legal drug pushers and the pharmaceutical companies are really in charge anyway. Healthy people cost them a fortune in lost revenues. Do you really beleive that they have your best interests in mind.?

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  19 Nov 2013

wissendas, can you briefly explain how homeopathy works?

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  19 Nov 2013

That fact that you are shocked has no bearing on reality. You being shocked is related to the irrational mind state you have.

Alternative medicine isn’t medicine that’s why it’s called “alternative” although I prefer to call it sCAM. It wouldn’t be alternative if there was evidence to support it. The fact that you are a nurse is 100% irrelevant. Nurses are not trained doctors or scientists but more like technicians. Your professional opinion on the subject is worthless. As I said in my previous post, you are acting outside the scope of your training which is unprofessional, especially when you make claims on the basis that you are a nurse.

 

The fact that millions of people including that great dummy Prince Charles believes in something isn’t the slightest bit of evidence for it being anything other than a very successful con. Millions of people believed the Earth was flat. Millions of people think there are hundreds of thousands of gods. Millions more believe there is one god. They both can’t be right.

You are not what you eat, another meaningless cliché.

I addressed points you made in your previous post showing were they were in error. I see you completely ignored my points. Do you understand that a child may simply recover from Asthma? Do you now understand why the placebo effect works in the mind of the human and not the dumb animal? 

 

38 Posts

wissendas  ·  18 Nov 2013

Bill and jamie, I am not shocked by your absolute dismissal of alternative medicines,Its just a shame people are so blind-sighted by western medicine being the only option. I am a registered nurse and see the potential for alternative and western medicine to work together as do others, yourselves excluded.

Millions of people the world over use alternative medicine but most in the west are ignorant of its benefits.their loss ..

My magic works well for millions, royal family included, so hope your western medicine keeps working for you or that your healthy diet keeps you well.

Remember , You are what you eat.........

 

1,325 Posts

Bill  ·  18 Nov 2013

The belief in magic, such as Homeopathy, is from ignorance, not the other way around. Under EU legislation Homeopathic “products” cannot contain an active ingredient. Therefore what you buy is plain water. If you can refer us to any scientifically published paper that explains how Homeopathy works I’m happy to read it. You won’t be able to find any. It’s just 19th century nonsense made up by one man, long discredited.

Your anecdotal stories are completely irrelevant, we could all tell silly stories. We have no real details to know exactly what happened. I do know that the description you gave is false because I know magic does not work. You can’t cure asthma with diet. All that probably happened is the child grew out of it as many children so.

The Placebo effect doesn’t work on the dumb animal, it works on the owner.

Nurses are no more capable of making scientific decisions than hospital porters. In fact your professional ethics preclude you from voicing medical opinions outside your training. 

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  18 Nov 2013

wissendas, you think homeopathy works and it's not the placibo effect? The west isn't anti anything that's proven to work. But is you think a few drops of water (homeopathy) can cure a disease, you're living on a different planet.

 

38 Posts

wissendas  ·  16 Nov 2013

I am amazed by peoples ignorance, however if thats what they believe, let them be.

I started using homeopathic medicine when a western Dr told me my 4 year old needed surgery.(he is now 16) I changed GP to one who incorporates Homeopathic medicine with western medicine. I have never looked back, no surgery needed. I use it for our pets also and , please don't tell me the placebo effect works on them.

I am a registered nurse and having lived in China for 10 years , where Chinese medicine and western medicine work in conjunction with one another, i dont understand why the west is so anti. I know the Pharma companies are afraid of losing their profit margin and will try everything to blacken the name of any alternative medicine but i hope in this day and age we can all be open to trying new ways of healing and maintaining our health.

My sisters child was diagnosed with Asthma, went through hell with him for approx 5 years, eventually she tried a TCM (chinese medicine Dr.) who said stop all medication, put him on a dairy and red meat free diet, guess what , it works.

She is only sorry that she didn't try it sooner.

I am a true believer that alternative medicine and western medicine can work together.

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  07 Nov 2013

shawnmagoon, they have no side effects, but they have no effects at all. You may as well get extra oragano on your pizza and pretend the herb will cure your cold. The danger is using alternative medicine (which by it's very definition doesn't work) and not using conventional medicine, so the problem goes untreated and develops into something serious. Steve Jobs, the Apple CEO died a few years ago and was famous for using alternative medicine to treat for his pancreatic cancer, which spread and eventually killed him. Doctors that treated him in later stages of his disease have said that his use of alternative medicine led to an early and unnessessary death. And this is a guy who has almost unlimited money to fund his alternative medicine treatment.

 

3 Posts

shawnmagoon  ·  07 Nov 2013

Alternative medicines are said to constitute of various herbs, botanical plants, extracts, minerals and vitamins in its original format. While this way of treatment which uses naturopathic medicines believes in the natural healing capability of nature and our body. Homeopathic as well ancient Chinese medicines broadly comes under this category. As far as your problem is considered alternative medicines are worth trying due to the fact that it has no proven side effects. 

 
This discussion is now closed.