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Welcome to irishhealth.com (18 May, 2013) Quickfind

Alternative medicine


 
Total Messages: 1861    Latest post on: 06/03/2013 06:59     Page 1 of 47   Latest Post
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arielwright111

Joined: Mar 2013

Posts: 1

# 1861

Posted: 06/03/2013 06:59

Thanks for all the valuable information that you have provided. You are sharing really great information and we can learn something to it, keep up the good work my friend.

Thanks.

 
George Mitchell

Joined: Jan 2006

Posts: 200

# 1860

Posted: 08/03/2012 03:45

Here in the USA, specific health claims are not allowed on labels of supplements or herbal products.  I think that is a reasonable regulation.  I also think it is reasonable to limit the advice that supplement vendors can give to customers in a retail setting.  I believe that there should be more latitude with web sites and publications, but all information provided should be required to be accurate.  While I consider myself to be very knowledgeable when it comes to supplements and herbal products, I always make sure that both my naturopath AND my MDs know exactly what I am taking and how much, AND I pay attention to their advice and cautions.  Here in the US, naturopaths (NDs) are fully licensed to be primary practitioners and are commonly reimbursed by health insurers for their services.  As I have noted before on this forum, I use both conventional medications and supplements and herbs and I value both approaches.  I have found that in the case of anything that actually is effective, one will almost certainly find existing research supporting its effectiveness.  There are a plethora of websites out there hawking formulations that they claim will cure everything from cancer to alzheimers and they are all operated by charlatans playing on the hopes of the gullible for the silver bullet.  But there are also plenty of supplements and herbs that do work to a degree and it is not by placebo effect either.  I know because I routinely use them and they work like clockwork for me.

 
John Williams

Joined: Dec 2000

Posts: 873

# 1859

Posted: 05/02/2012 13:49

Alternative medicine -alternative views

The trouble with Brendan Fitzpatrick's special pleading is that he ignores or down plays the science of medicine. I don't think any practitioner claims that science has all the answers in any field of human endeavour but it gradually moves forward. I am always astonished how people who are educated in science but don't understand the scientific method. If they did it would be quite clear to them that plucking 'cures' out of thin air is not rational. Would Brendan Fitzpatrick deny that the huge advances in medicine, from antibiotics, vaccines , organ transplants,insulin, diagnostic scans etc have come from gradual scientific advance?. He can't have it both ways. The scientific method cannot live side by side with the hocus pocus of alternative medicine.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1858

Posted: 06/01/2012 20:22

Yes John, I agree with you re the amount of people that will believe any nonsense BUT my issue is with the many vitamins supplements that do work, for example

Grape seed extract to help the veins stop developing varicose veins

Vitamin D to reduce fulture cancer ( note high levels of D)

Saw palmetto for beign enlarged prostate 

St John's Wort for mild/moderate depression (NOT severe depression BUT then again what does work)

Kava for anxiety and I could go on etc.

All of these have been studied and proved to work BUT NO patent so no big shot company cares and the gov wonders why the costs are out of control

 
John Williams

Joined: Dec 2000

Posts: 873

# 1857

Posted: 21/12/2011 13:52

I agree. It is the safest and best of all you don't have to pay for it.

The alternative medicine I am railing against is the rip-off where unscrupulous people are selling so-called cures and treatments and charging the unfortunate sick person an arm and a leg. Some very high profile recent court cases prove my point.

 
Anniela

Joined: Dec 2011

Posts: 2

# 1856

Posted: 20/12/2011 12:45

The best alternative medicine probably is a belief, the so called placebo effect.Smile


Follow your dream.

 
John Williams

Joined: Dec 2000

Posts: 873

# 1855

Posted: 13/11/2011 18:44

Why do so many health sites and so many health articles in the printed media give such prominence to alternative medicines? It is actually a misnomer to call them "medicines". In the vast majority of cases there is not a shred of evidence that these products do any good (except to the bank balance of the vendor). Serious medical web sites should ignore these latter day quacks.

This is a copy of my original post on this thread in 2001 and unfortunately I do not have to change a word of it ten years later. This delving into the archives was prompted by a two page spread in the Irish Times health magazine on 1st November with 'advice' from shop assistants in health food shops an all the 'supplements' we should be taking. At a time of reduced income one would think that the public would have a bit of cop on and not waste their hard earned money. This type of article does no credit to the Irish Times.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1854

Posted: 16/03/2011 01:05

Well 17 days to go before the EU directive banning herbal medicine and supplements goes into effect April 1 2011. Now of course I will of course buy all I want when I go to the US and I assume other people with the abilty will do the same this only effects the people without the means to do so. So I raise a glass to Bill you wishes will come true soon - what is strange is all the people who post here call you bad names etc.- Because in fact you win (well you do not beat me but re the gov regulation you do). OK small difference you say the supplements are useless and the EU say are dangerous - but end result is the same.

Happy St Patricks Day Bill you win (but do the Irish & EU people?) ah St Pat where are you now

 
Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2001

Posts: 12,056

# 1853

Posted: 04/02/2011 09:32

Joe, lifting weights and cal/mag will prevent bone loss pre-menopauase but cannot reverse bone loss or compensate for bone loss wich occurs as a result of hormone deficiency.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1852

Posted: 03/02/2011 20:07

Just a couple of weeks ago I met a woman in her 60s who has been on one of the drugs to stop bone loss. Yes it does stop bone loss by stopping the bones getting rid of the old bones so on a scan all looks great. BUT she fell 6 months ago and her bones shattered and the doctors thought she may never walk again - she can now walk slowly with a cane. I think these drugs will be a disaster in the coming years as the bones do not just break they are shattered. Of course there is a alt health way - keep your body alkaline, lift weights and cal/mag with greens. Re the Irish financial meltdown it is happening faster than I expected so people will the Irish gov. have money to help you if your bones shatter in your 60s 

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1851

Posted: 04/11/2010 21:16

Oh no there is a shortage of melatonin (sold as the drug Circadin in the EU) in the UK - as my Google Alert tells me:

""Lundbeck Limited is currently experiencing supply shortages with UK packs of Circadin®. Shortages are anticipated to last 2 to 3 months. Lundbeck is actively working with the Marketing Authorisation Holder, RAD Neurim Pharmaceuticals EEC Limited, to restore supplies to the UK market as soon as possible. We apologise for any inconvenience this may cause and are committed to keeping the market fully informed of our progress in resolving this issue. "

Oh dear what can we do, strange as melatoin is $6 bucks a bottle in the US and as common as a chocolate bar.

So Bill I ask you directly (for about the 5 time) You say "Melatonin is a supplement and useless but drugs are good & useful" So a thing is useless in the US but very valuable in the EU - please expalin to us (note many more supplements will become drugs next years so the magic continues)

 
carlafurlong

Joined: Oct 2010

Posts: 2

# 1850

Posted: 11/10/2010 15:26

Hi,  I was wondering if you could help me with my Masters dissertation that is examining a number of possible predictors of risky health behaviour during adolescence and early adulthood.

 Therefore, I am looking for males and females aged between 18 and 24 years whose biological parents are either still living together or who are separated or divorced to participate in this research and complete four questionnaire on surveymonkey. In total the questionnaires should take no more than 20 minutes to complete and will ask about your personality and beliefs, general feelings about yourself and personal information about cigarette smoking, alcohol and drug use, sexual activity and health and diet.  If you are interested in taking part, please visit http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/MZ3QR7R. Please note that all answers and responses are completely anonymous and confidential.

If you have any queries or questions regarding this study please do not hesitate to contact me via email at carla.furlong@student.shu.ac.ukThanks
 
Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2001

Posts: 12,056

# 1849

Posted: 11/10/2010 11:43

Gosh, Bill, your attitude really isn't helping anyone.  If it has been shown to have benefits - then it's not useless and surely it's the patients money - not yours.   Indian Head Massage is most relaxing but certainly could not be considered alternative or complementary medicine and has ner, to my mind, been advoacted for Chrons or any other autoimmune disease. LDN is mainstream but is simply new and has not been fully invesitgated - as happs with any new medicine .2) No drug can be said to be 100% safe. Furthermore drugs can interact with each other in a negative way.

A doctor is trained but a GP simply cannot possibly keep up with all the realm of research into every therapy for every disease and condition.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1848

Posted: 11/10/2010 10:30

What is there to lose?” That has to be one of the silliest arguments put forward by pro-sCAM advocates. There are several logical reasons why it is absurd to take a drug that has no proven benefits.

1) It’s a waste of your money. Not just on the one useless “medicine” but why not take every single drug that has ever been suggested for Chron’s Disease? That means you could spend most of your day taking drugs and spending a fortune. And that’s not to mention, Reflexology, Reki, Indian Head Massage and the other 1,000 useless sCAMs. Why not take the 1000s of supplements that are advertised and sold by con artists to the gullible? What about useless diets and other fads. Where do you stop?

2) No drug can be said to be 100% safe. Furthermore drugs can interact with each other in a negative way.

3) The doctor will know best. He’s trained and knows the patient, you are not and don’t know the patient so stop advising people as if you are some sort of expert. You didn’t spot or choose to ignore that you quoted a study of just 17 people. The only advice is to tell people to trust their doctors and if in doubt see another doctor.

 
George Mitchell

Joined: Jan 2006

Posts: 200

# 1847

Posted: 10/10/2010 15:58

Regarding LDN, Bill is correct.  There are no guarantees.  It is not something I would use if there were proven treatments available for the condition in question.  But when one has a disease that is very difficult to treat, these sorts of approaches make sense.  LDN is based on a drug that has been proven safe at much higher doses, has no known dangerous interactions and almost no side effects.  It is also very inexpensive.  What is there to lose?  People are currently using it for a wide range of very difficult to treat diseases and achieving remarkable and lasting remissions with it.  On the other hand, it clearly does not work for some people.  All I know is that it is doing the job for me and that makes one less medical problem I have to deal with.  Its that kind of thing, that if it works, you have a solution, if not, you move on.  Fortunately, researchers in the US and all over the world are doing ever more extensive research on more and more wide ranging substances and that is giving us all more and more options in dealing with the frustrating medical challenges that many of us face.  It used to be that medical research was dominated by pharmaceutical companies, but thankfully we are moving away from that era and now we have more options.

 
Clonjess

Joined: Nov 2009

Posts: 2

# 1846

Posted: 06/10/2010 09:19

Thanks for that George..

 
Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2001

Posts: 12,056

# 1845

Posted: 06/10/2010 08:45

Hi George, I have also heard very poisitive thing about LDN in relaiuton to other autoimmune conditiosn, particulary regarding the adrenal system, but not Chron's.

Thos really this is not alternative medicine at all. But rather mainstream medicine but very very new research which has not yet been widely adopted.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1844

Posted: 05/10/2010 18:06

Note that study you refer to consisted of only 17 people. A VERY small study indeed. impossible to conclude anything from that.

 
George Mitchell

Joined: Jan 2006

Posts: 200

# 1843

Posted: 05/10/2010 17:14

Many people with Crohn's are finding LDN effective.  There was a study done at Pennsylvania State College of Medicine that demonstrated its effectiveness.

"Dr. Jill Smith’s original article, "Low-Dose Naltrexone Therapy Improves Active Crohn’s Disease," in the January issue of the American Journal of Gastroenterology (2007;102:1–9), officially presents LDN to the world of scientific medicine. Smith, Professor of Gastroenterology at Pennsylvania State University's College of Medicine, found that two-thirds of the patients in her pilot study went into remission and fully 89% of the group responded to treatment to some degree. She concluded that “LDN therapy appears effective and safe in subjects with active Crohn’s disease." ( http://www.lowdosenaltrexone.org )

It is very easy to take with zero side effects.  I am taking it for IBS and have found it very effective for that.

 
Clonjess

Joined: Nov 2009

Posts: 2

# 1842

Posted: 04/10/2010 16:37

Hi - does anybody in Ireland use alternative medicine to treat their Chron's disease - without taking prescribed meds???

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1841

Posted: 17/09/2010 02:11

Well the mystery continues - I have a Google alert (it picks up any mention in the media) on Circadin and one one mention in the last few weeks (in German but just a copy of the website) So what great sales do they expect for this as also it is pretty much useless as a sleeping pill - only works for about 1 in 3 so - so with the doctor charge and 27 euro a big waste for most people. "But soft what light through yonder windows breaks" as in fact the real major use of melatonin is the fact that it keeps old people healthier longer (of course they die in the end). I visited the mother of a friend in the US who is 95 and still living at home and NOT decripit, she takes melatonin and other supplements - yes Bill I told her all those things were useless and she just laughed at you. Yes there are many obeses Americans but also many who do not expect the gov. to have money to help them if they get sick in the future years.

So when I say people should try keep themselves healthy versus being babies of the goverment I do not mean they should pay for heart/cancer operations etc but they should try to keep sickness at bay re blood pressure etc. for as long as possible Of course you can assume the Irish gov (or the French gov etc) will have tons of money to care for you in old age but I would have to say you do not read the media very well and are living in a dream land, but fair play to you - a miracle may happen, did you pray at Knock or Lourdes etc?. let me know the prayers you said.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1840

Posted: 11/08/2010 18:15

My point is my legal right to buy supplements and if Bill wants to ban dangerous things lets ban booze (as the Muslim countries do) and cigarettes all over. Re melatonin I asked in a French pharmacy and she had to search but did find t he Circadin at 27 euro for 21 - I can buy a bottle of 60 3mg in the US for $6 or less. (well this means I have 1,000s of euro worth every time I travel) So why do I not die and also the millions of people who take melatonin. Re danger the FDA has to prove a supplement is dangerous BEFORE they ban it - guess what the FDA has banned very few supplements (DHEA etc are all for sale in the US)

Supplements are simply not on the radar for 99% of french people so when the EU turns melatonin into a drug they do not know or care - unlike Ireland/UK/US

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1839

Posted: 10/08/2010 18:03

As the vast amount of supplements are totally useless and even dangerous, then at any price they are expensive. As expensive as Homeopathy's magic water.

You have the advantage of a tourist in so far as you do not pay tax in France. Employers & Employees PRSI/NI is 50% in France and 20% in Ireland. The reason many things are cheap in France is that the people are very poor and that deflates prices. I know I lived there.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1838

Posted: 09/08/2010 22:02

Just back from France and had a great time as usual. Now a word on fairness:

In the US people get paid more in the North East states but houses cost more, while in South less pay but cheaper houses & sunny. Now in the United States of Europe opps I mean the EU lets look at fairness (from the viewpoint of a family of modest income):

In France wine is cheap, good food is cheap, public health services much better, but the supplements are controlled & many expensive. So 3 or 4 is not too bad

In Ireland booze is expensive, food expensive, public health services - well don't ask, & now the supplements are to be controlled more and more (well Bill says they are useless but the gov is putting them on prescribtion) So 0 out of 4

So where is the fairness in thing, (me and wife go out to eat in France, rabbit etc, buy pastis & wine to bring home and get change out of 50 euro - how far would a couple get in Ireland?) So if Bill can bring 1.5 euro bottle of wine to Ireland and "Prix Fix" of 15 euro & good public health services - the gov can ban all the supplements they want.

 
buzz

Joined: Jul 2008

Posts: 3,037

# 1837

Posted: 26/07/2010 12:17

I think glucosamine has it's advantages, but in a proper form. So many "supplements" now are nothing but placeboid happy pills. Walk into any high street "health" store and you can get 3 for 2 on magic pills...there's something wrong somewhere! Take a look at shops own brand vitamin c or fish oil for example - you would have to eat hundreds of the things to get (if) any benefit.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1836

Posted: 24/07/2010 14:00

I have always been suspecious of those adds for glucosamine.

Now read this, "A study of 662 people with moderate-to-severe knee osteoarthritis who were followed for two years found that glucosamine was not more effective than a placebo."

Jim often quotes the "royal family" on matters of sCAM.

The Prince's Foundation for Integrated Health shut down operations on April 30th. The foundation was an independent charity that supported the integration"of "alternative and complementary medicine" into the British National Health Service (NHS). The closure came amid accusations of misuse of charity status. The Guardian reported that the Department of Health paid the foundation £1.1million to advise on the regulation of massage, aromatherapy, reflexology and related therapies as Prince Charles personally lobbied health ministers to use the treatments throughout the NHS. After Professor Edzard Ernst said the advisory report draft was "outrageous and deeply flawed," foundation staff members complained to the University that funded Ernst's work. The Charity Commission, which regulates charities in England and Wales, was asked to investigate allegations that the foundation may have breached charity regulations by pursuing a "vendetta" against Ernst.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1835

Posted: 15/07/2010 21:54

Please everyone when I add colourful comments re Jesus turing water into wine I simply do so to add colour to my comments and have NO intention of debating the bible. So my question is How has the EU turned melatonin into a prescribtion drug - while in US/Can it is a supplement? NOBODY can explain

But Bill in I am in France now and very very few supplements being used, of course you will be happy to hear all my French in laws have been cured of their ills (that is sarcasm in case any one cannot read between the lines as in fact some are very sick) But mais oui of course the French gov will look after all with tax money

 
Jamie

Joined: Nov 2007

Posts: 630

# 1834

Posted: 12/07/2010 14:47

Joe L: The magical transformation that didn't happen that I was refering to was Jesus turning water into wine. Phantom, homeopathy IS water! And you'll find out it's you in the "flat earth" society. You believe something that has zero proof. It's actually proven to not work but you still believe it does. You believe water has a "memory" and can heal you! You believe in magic!

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1833

Posted: 10/07/2010 01:08

Jamie it is NOT me claiming that melatonin etc undergo a magical transformation - it is the big pharma and the medical authorities. So can you explain their magic.

 
phantom

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 68

# 1832

Posted: 09/07/2010 16:36

Primarily for Bill's and Jamie's attention, but to all others interested,here's some music to your ears!

I've decided it's a complete waste of time trying to discuss "Alternative Medicine", to use IrishHealth.com's title, in this forum.

There's actually no discussion going on! It's descended into nothing more than point scoring, semantics, insult and ridicule, and a complete lack of intelligent debate.

To clear up a few points before leaving:

1) Anybody who believes CAM and AM are one and the same has a deeply flawed understanding of the subject. Even conventional practitioners acknowledge the difference.

2) The notion that Homeopathy is 'just water' is a barrier put up by skeptics to prevent a more balanced and scientific discussion - there are real scientists out there doing real research on the basis that there are dynamics at work that we don't understand and never will if we don't seek out the facts. You guys in the 'Flat Earth Society' contribute nothing to the advancement of science.

3) The "Marian Finucane Delusion" - Does it not fascinate you that a person can suffer from a condition for years and as soon as they use CAM, they achieve healing, BUT NO, it couldn't be the CAM! The condition always coincidentally heals around the same time!!!

4) "Jim, did you contradict yourself? Yes or no?"  Bill, what answer did you expect?  Yes?

5) "Do you believe in Complementary or Alternative medicine?" Bill, I already told you in several posts! Additionally, you're now the one contradicting yourself - you previously stated they were the same!

6) Jamie, enough about the British Isles, it's worn out now!

7) Bill, I'm still at a loss to know what you meant by me "gaining financially". It's probably the most bizarre statement ont this forum.    I don't intend to post my CV here, however

My background comes in three basic stages:    a) My service with the Crown Forces    b) My life in business and    c) My recent life, which I dedicated to trying to save my wife from the       horrors of Rheumatoid Arthritis.

Her hospital consultants told her they could do nothing and left her with no hope. My choices were i) to grieve with her  or ii) try to do something to help.I completed a practitioners course in CAM and used that knowledge to bring her to a point where a rheumatologist closed her file and congratulated her on a remarkable achievement.        Perhaps it was the CAM, or maybe you're right Bill, perhaps it was the "Marian Finucane Delusion".        Frankly I don't care, all I know is that I see a woman living a new life she hasn't known for over a decade.       I don't practice CAM professionally, I have no financial interest in any aspect of the medical field. I make my money in ways completely differently.

As for Jesus, Allah, Tian Zhu, Yahweh, Vishnu, or whoever else God might be called, I believe, you don't. One of us is in for one heck of a shock when we die!

It would be interesting to know what it is you accept for a change. We're already well versed on what you reject.

Well guys it's been an experience! Not  a great one, but enlightening in it's own way.

Good wishes to all, despite all!

Jim

 
Jamie

Joined: Nov 2007

Posts: 630

# 1831

Posted: 09/07/2010 10:19

Joe, I'll explain the "miraculous transformation". It didn't happen. Go to youtube and take a look at Penn and Teller, Derren Brown, David Copperfield and our own Keith Barry. They stuff they do isn't actually magic. At least we're getting somewhere, you believing in magic explains how you think some of these treatments can work.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1830

Posted: 09/07/2010 09:57

This was my sentence, “It is possible that Jim knows he is wrong but supports sCAM for financial reasons”.

No matter how many times you post statements that are shown to be factually wrong you carry on regardless. So what’s the reason that you have this problem if you are not gaining financially? Why do you appear not to be able to comprehend your errors? Tell us then, and avoid the usual waffle.

I asked a simple Yes/No question Wednesday, did you contradict yourself? Can you answer that?

Joe L. ALL supplements are not useless, e.g. iron for those diagnosed by their doctors as anaemic. The vast majority are useless and even can be dangerous. Because one supplement or chemical may be of benefit to a tiny number of people does not mean “supplements are useful”.  

You comment is illogical, do you see that? Because A is good and A is part of a set of 1000 items, does not imply all items in that set are good. Pretty basic logic.

“Jesus” didn’t turn water into wine. He probably didn’t exist. It’s only a mythological story believed in by one religion out of 1000s of religions. Hindu’s don’t believe that. Where’s your evidence?

I didn’t make this statement, “who you declare have all knowledge”. You just did. I don’t believe that statement is anything but total nonsense.

 
Joe L

Joined: Feb 2007

Posts: 128

# 1829

Posted: 09/07/2010 02:32

But Bill (and other interested parties) you have not answered my main question:

If supplements are useless why are they being turned into prescribtion medicine? (melatonin and many more to come)

When I was young I learned the miracle of Jesus turning water into wine so this would look to be the modern miracle (performed by the modern prophets of big pharma who you declare have all knowledge - which is close to the defintion of a god)

So please explain the miraculous transformation, oh I forgot you will avoid my question and rant on about Jesus or some other irrelevant part of my post

 
phantom

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 68

# 1828

Posted: 08/07/2010 14:24

Bill,

I'll be fascinated to hear your reason for this:

"supports sCAM for financial reasons "

 
Linda78

Joined: Jul 2010

Posts: 1

# 1827

Posted: 08/07/2010 11:56

A good alternative to smoking might be the Electronic cigarette. This device feels just like a cigarette and yet only contains 16 chemicals, contrary to the 4000 chemicals in regular cigarettes.Nevertheless, it's much much cheaper. I gave it to my father on his birthday and since then he saves around a hundred Dollars each month. He tells me its great that he can decide on his own how much nicotine he inhales (the cartridges come in 0-16 mg nic.).My mum also loves it, because the "smoke" is mainly composed of water-vapor, so now she doesent need to send my dad outside each time he wants to smoke, haha.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1826

Posted: 08/07/2010 11:41

It is possible that Jim knows he is wrong but supports sCAM for financial reasons and is trying to create enough diversion to stop anyone reading this thread understanding sCAM.

As I said before it’s very odd we have never had a sCAM practitioner post here. Are they scared? Do they know we will demolish them? If they are making money from sCAM BUT think it works why not come here and defend themselves? I think the answer is that they know they are sCAMming people.

I know Jim’s wife is not cured of RA, there is no cure. I also know for a fact that she can’t have been cured by magic. So what are we to believe of Jim’s claims?

If you attack people’s silly and illogical and untrue “beliefs” whether Homeopathy, Supplements, or Religion they often get very annoyed and angry. It’s as if their mind is being attacked.

 
Jamie

Joined: Nov 2007

Posts: 630

# 1825

Posted: 08/07/2010 10:48

Phantom, in response to your post # 1818, the first point was that homeopathy doesn't work. And as I said before, saying you believe in CAM but not AM is just contradicting yourself. If you really believe that the Homeopath remedy for malaria with one part of active ingredient in 1, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000 parts of water is the same as a course of doxy there's no hope for you! I notice you didn't comment on my point on how watered down these "medicines" actually are. Your point on me being prejudice because of my "obsession" with avoiding all notions of Ireland being called British, can you point to an example of this? First of all, Ireland isn't british, I think that's pretty obvious. Secondly, I said the island of great britain isn't the mainland. Now, saying it is, is as geographically wrong as calling the Shannon a lake (look how wide it is), calling Asia an island (it's surrounded by water) or calling the Atlantic a salt lake. The mmr controversy was made by a 1 doctor making false claims, you would think out of 168 homeopath "doctors" more than 2 would know this before handing out terribly bad advice to patients. Sometimes diseases or problems can just go away on their own. If enough people take homeopath medicines for their conditions, with the law of averages, a few people will be cured. Not because of the drips of water they too, their conditions would have cleared up anyway. It's the same as Uri Geller on TV convincing people he fixed their broken watches. Lastly, Phantom, why do you always attack the poster instead of the post? You never seem to address Bills points, just attack Bill! Lots of other posts are the same, you just abuse the poster instead of addressing the points they made.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1824

Posted: 07/07/2010 09:42

Jim, did you contradict yourself? Yes or no?

Do you believe in Complementary or Alternative medicine?

You said that Homeopathic anti-Malaria “medicine” has the same ingredient as the real one. It doesn’t. There are no molecules of an active ingredient in Homeopathy. The EU law states that it cannot have.  Are you saying that those conning the public by selling Homeopathy are breaking the law?

You are more wrong about everything than anyone I have ever seen posting anywhere.  When you make a factual error and it is pointed out to you, you respond with meaningless waffle.

 
phantom

Joined: Jun 2001

Posts: 68

# 1823

Posted: 07/07/2010 02:26

Gosh Bill,

You really  know how to manipulate and distort words!But then I've had a brush with systems analysts before, and understand why!!!

You perform clever word tricks, Bill, but as usual, no intelligent contribution to the discussion.

Yes, Bill, of course I know that Complementary means "along with".Thats why it's called such. Patients accommodate any therapies and all therapies, including pharmaceutical.

In order words, they have no prejudices, but weigh up each therapy in relation to their condition. If a bacon butty is the cure, they take a bacon butty!

Telling me that Alternative is the exact opposite is wasting space here, Bill.It's exactly what I told you, several times, in earlier posts.

" You have said that your wife only used fake medicines, therefore you use Alternative Medicine. "

For pity sake, Bill, save your word games for another forum!

Regarding your last comment re malarial treatment, you seem to be stuck on your "by law" comment that you rely on so much.

It's quite simple Bill, on this one, you're wrong, simply wrong.Your opinion on Homeopathy and CAM in general is far more substantial than your knowledge.

Your posts are only meaningless word games, and not very articulate when you have to lower yourself to using terms like 'daft' to challenge another point of view.

 
Bill

Joined: Oct 2002

Posts: 1,314

# 1822

Posted: 06/07/2010 12:07

Wow! The nonsense is coming thick and fast at the moment.

A very high percentage of people who think they have food intolerances don’t. This is part of sCAM. Convincing hypochondriacs that there is something wrong with them when there isn’t. I have heard that as high as 98% of people who think they have allergies, do not.

a machine using homeopathy could diagnose my food sensitivities”. Of course this is nonsense. What sort of magic machine could use water to detect something like that?

I too have Sciatica. It was only detected by using an MRI scan. The X-Ray wasn’t sensitive enough. Ask for an MRI scan. Sciatica is quite serious. Do not go to quacks, they will make you worse. The anti-inflammatory is the correct first step BUT I strongly recommend suitable exercise. Swimming can be bad. Brisk regular walking is best. By co-incidence there is an article in today’s UK Independent on the subject.

Joe L is suffering from the Marian Finucane Delusion, which I have explained before. Just because you had Acupuncture and at the same time you either thought you got better or you did does not in the slightest mean the Acupuncture helped you. Colour TV became popular with the rise in Autism. That didn’t mean they were connected. Sciatica is a swelling or hernia on a nerve. How could sticking pins in your ear affect that damage?

 
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