Our costly love–affair with alcohol

# 165

Posted: 16/06/2010 01:55

I hope I am welcome on this site.  I am a nurse in the U.S and am studying cultural diversity.  Right now I am looking at alcohol and the treatments available along with the cultural idea of alcohol.  I would love to hear comments on treatments available, when you think treatment is needed, and what your ideas are on what an alcoholic is.  I have looked at many sites and have the studies, research, and supposed experts, but what I really need to know is how do you all feel.  What does the public think, and do you agree with the research and treatments available to you.  I welcome any comments and would love to discuss this with you

Carrie

# 164

Posted: 09/10/2007 16:46

I hear a lot of fear and denial, this is no time for cowardice. Commercial advertising was invented to push consumers to buy things they do not 'need'. Everyone is a consumer, unless you are 100% self-sufficient.

If alcohol is a good thing in itself then why does it need to be pushed so intensively? Mostly people abuse themselves with alcohol in order to compensate for their feelings of inadequecies.
Through becoming drunk they seperate themselves from reality and play out their alter ego. Here they can be that happy, likeable person who laughs at every joke and tells stories about nearly crashing their car into a ditch/wall/tree/car etc.

Damaging your IQ, liver and general health become things to be reveled in; 'we are young and we don't give a f***, we are rebels, we will live for ever....'

or

'I'm too old to change my ways.....'

At some point those who chose to be cowardly will have to live with the consequences of the limited lives enforced on all our children.

Life is a decision you make every day. Stay Positive,

Simon

# 163

Posted: 24/07/2006 13:56

Welcome back Johnny! I thought you were going missing for six months. Me and Mary are on a discovery route and you'd never know what we might find. We might just happen to stumble across your synaptic transmission unless of course you want to give us some kind of grounding on it yourself.

# 162

Posted: 24/07/2006 13:00

I'm neithr sniping nor snarling, simplky looking for answers - which you rfuse to give. Your attitude with 'be silent!' is quite typicla also - of those who wish to appear as tho' they occupy the intellectual high gound.

# 161

Posted: 24/07/2006 11:06

I suppose, when you come right down to it, you two (Kevin, Mary) are typical. Time and again I have stressed that nobody can hope to make sense of the stress reaction hypothesis without a grounding in the basic principles of synaptic transmission. You show no inclination to do so. Instead, you choose to go down the sniping and snarling road. So, now - please! - either read up on basic principles or be silent! Irishhealth.com has tremendous research potential - please don't drag it into a quagmire!

# 160

Posted: 22/07/2006 03:47

Ah, Mary, who else is going to do the housework? To be fair to the father he has to bring in the money so he's wrapped up in this area. When you are self-employed as well the hours can be very very long. In our case if I wanted a break from the kids I would have to go to work to get it! And when I had to go to town I used to call my mother-in-law to mind them but I used to feel guilty giving her not four of them but seven of them because my older three would have been too young to leave on their own as well. I couldn't afford a babysitter Mary and that is being honest. So yes the going can be very tough at times and one could easily reach breaking point. But then they were an easy bunch overall and got on very well as brothers and sisters. It has all been worthwhile and they are growing up into lovely people. Sometimes they can be easier to deal with when they are small rather than when they become teenagers when more complex issues come into play.
With regards to alcohol they have a very healthy attitude towards it, don't make any great deal about it and never go overboard only on a very rare occasion. We've never made any big deal about their drinking and at the same time never encouraged them either. We just stay indifferent about alcohol and it works. They are indifferent too and it isn't a big part in their lives. We concentrate on encouraging outside interests or aiming for a handsome job and we pour all our energies in here. This distracts them from alcohol and keeps them aiming higher in a focused and interested way. Education and encouragment mixed with an indifference towards alcohol is the key to staying on the right path.

# 159

Posted: 21/07/2006 10:47

"Try doing all your housework as well with all that"

But Kevin, if you are taking care of all the children - and four is a lot at one time, why would you be doing the houework as well?
There are two parents in the situation, if one is taking care of the children, what is the other one doing. S/he has responsibility too.

"If by chance the father decides to mind them for an hour or so while you have a nap" - Well what on earth else would he be doing except taking care of them - they are HIS children.
Why isn't their father reading to some of them?
My Dad wasn't a great reader but he used to tell me great stories at night before I went to sleep.

# 158

Posted: 21/07/2006 03:04

But Mary, we do all those things. I remember having a baby sling on and holding two others on either arm and another one clung unto my leg! I was like Hercules around the place! Try doing all your housework as well with all that Mary and you have to turn into Superman as well! Then you have to try and become Spiderman to try and get a break from them! If by chance the father decides to mind them for an hour or so while you have a nap then you wish that you were like Sleeping Beauty but you have to have an ear still cocked when you are asleep! Some days you could have three or four of them like Rumplestilskins around the place with their temper tantrums or like Sylvester the cat trying to watch the mouse all the time to see where he goes! Then you have a long haul ahead of you at night when you have to read Each one of them a story or sing nursery rhymes and eventually when you do try to get some sleep 'Baa, baa black sheep' keeps repeating itself over and over in your mind and it takes ages for you to go off. Then you are no sooner asleep when the baby wakes up for it's feed at night and then the second feed and then they are all in on top of you at 6a.m in the morning bouncing on top of the bed and on our heads as if there is no tomorrow!!
Criky, maybe there is some truth all the same in these frusration rages!!

# 157

Posted: 20/07/2006 12:49

Don't you remember feeling any panic like that when you were a child. The parent KNOWS she or he will come back into the room but the child doens not neccessarily know.
If a child is not ready to go to sleep, why not pop them in a baby sling or wrap (you know, one of the ones you sort of wear around you.) This works for several friends of mine, (3 mums and a Dad). It seems the sound of the heartbeat, which the baby would have become used to in the womb anyway) and any movement lulls them to sleep.
Baby massage also helps according to a cousin of mine.
A nursery nurse, i think, should also be one of the last people to ignore a childs cry, takin care of newborns (those who are not rooming in obviously) is part of the nurses fulltime job, surely.

If a man does not want to get involved with HIS OWN child, then he should NOT become a father, until he is ready and willing to do so.

# 156

Posted: 20/07/2006 02:19

Yes, Mary, I remember being a child but I can assure you that adults experience far worse panic than a child does especially when they become parents! You must also remember that when a mother has walked out of a room she could have spent a full hour or two trying to settle the child already. Sometimes it's not always about the child screaming and roaring either. It's about trying to get them off to sleep and about singing songs lulling them to sleep for ages and ages.
You should have a chat with the nurses as well in the nursery wards Mary who have ignored babies crying many times. Thankfully some of us mothers recognise our child's cry and go down and take them up. But the nurses are supposed to be giving us a break while we are recovering after the birth.
Lots of men don't want to get involved in children anyway Mary. Here in modern day Ireland men still think that this area is a woman's job.
If a child then turns out to be a nuisance to society it is the mother who feels that she is to blame.

# 155

Posted: 19/07/2006 15:52

But Kevin, it is the child who is in a panic - don't you remember being a child? He or she does not know you you are going to come back in. All they know is that they are terribly terribly distressed and the person they trust and love has left them.
If a woman is left with the work and her partner avoids it then it is something in the partnership that's wrong, not something in the child.
Pity John didn't stick around alright, I thought we were finally managing to tease a bit of sense out of his theories.

# 154

Posted: 19/07/2006 00:20

Mary, it is easy to know that you have no kids by your last post and I don't mean that as an insult. When I go out of the room Mary, I am within earshot of the child. I am outside there because it is I who is in a panic trying to cope! While I catch my breath and control myself I will be back inside in that room within five-10 minutes. Hopefully that few minutes will send me in much calmer.
I remember standing in my cot Mary wailing my head off for my mother to come in and get me in the mornings and I'm sure every child has gone through that at least for the tiniest of minutes. We mothers are only human and are trying the best we can. Most of the time we can cope very well but other times we are cross, tired and hungry just like any other human being. Many women are left with all this work as well and many men avoid it like the plague.
I don't know what is wrong with John. We are fully on his subject now and instead he decides to do a runner. Maybe he is running away from his own theories.

# 153

Posted: 18/07/2006 17:21

I cannot imagine any justification Kevin for anyone caring for a child to leave them alone in a room crying hysterically. Remember, a child does not know the person is going to come back. How do you know that a child does not in fact "cry it out" but rather blacks out from either panic or some sort of frustration overload in the brain due to prolonged stress reaction.
Tell me Kevin, would you as an adult like to be shut in a room, crying in hysterical panic? Well if you would not like it, why on earth could you imagine doing it to a child who does not have the reasoning of an adult?

The older siblings in your house, make fun of the baby? Really? That must be very upsetting.

John, there is no-one here writing a textbok. Are you also having an infantile frusration rage of your own perhaps and that is why you are leaving? If there are certain questions you cannot answer, I don't think anyone will mind. No one is a walking encyclopdia.

# 152

Posted: 18/07/2006 13:12

Sadly, I must decline your kind invitation! I'll be back in six months. I'll look in then to see how far you have progressed with your brand new textbook on THE BASIC PRINCIPLES OF SYNAPTIC TRANSMISSION.

# 151

Posted: 18/07/2006 12:55

Mary, John is probably suffering from frustration rages coming from infancy. If you were to take John's theory then the mothers are also suffering from these infantile frustration rages when they walk out of the room! So this is quite natural then and you can't blame the mothers when they can't cope with their kids. Even then, when the mother walks out, she still has the frustration rage controlled somewhat. If she stays in the room with the child screaming her head off after maybe an hour trying to calm it down she could get so frustrated that she would end up hitting the child. Mothers walk out of the room to try and calm themselves down first so that they can go back and try again more composed. They are walking out for both their sakes.
The youngest ends up getting most of the attention from the parents I think Mary. At least that is what is happening in our house and one tends to give into the youngest more and end up protecting them more. The reason for the younger one's stress I think comes from his older siblings who tend to make fun of him a lot. There can be quite a bit of jealousy towards the younger one as well as the siblings notice the parents more protective towards him. The older siblings can also end up having the youngest 'hanging off' them as they are made to mind him as well. On the one hand he appears to be more loved and on the other hand he appears to be a nuisance. This must create a conflict in the youngest.

# 150

Posted: 18/07/2006 08:47

Ah, but now we are back to the original question - what causes these frustration rages in infancy?
If the mother, or indeed the father as both parties are co-parents no in the much truer sense than they were since pre-industrial times, has more children, how does this cause the youngest to suffer repeated CNS stress? Is it lack of attention as the parents devote more atention to the demnding toddlers and the older childrens increasing needs?
Down your way, hard pressed mothers routinely shut a raging infant into a room and closed the door!!!!! Oh Good grief. That sounds so completely cruel. I have no children, as I don't perticularly want any but even I, altho' I am not maternal could never do that to another human being. Heck, I couldn't even do that to an animal.

Why sign off tho' John? Aren't you interested in further discussion? If you have no more theories, it doesn't matter. You could always discuss / debate ours.

# 149

Posted: 17/07/2006 18:03

John, I doubt that you are a stress free person! You can't handle me at all! I don't know why.
I'd agree with you though on one thing though. The more children a mother has the more the youngest can show up these tendencies. Some of the alcoholics that I know are in fact the youngest in families as well would you believe. Still, it was the second of my children that stressed me out the most and I do remember walking away from the room once or twice. I never did it with the younger crowd though.

# 148

Posted: 17/07/2006 17:27

I am signing off now. Thank you for your time.

# 147

Posted: 17/07/2006 17:20

Mary, read a few of my earlier posts! CNS stress originates in the frustration-rages of infancy. The more children a mother has the greater the likelihood that youngest repeatedly suffers excessive CNS excitation and a series of stress reactions. Down our way, hard pressed mothers routinely shut a raging infant into a room and closed the door!

# 146

Posted: 17/07/2006 16:26

So John, are you now saying that CNS stres is caused by couples and women having more children than they can cope with - hence it is causign addiction problems.
I have no children and still feel stressed from time to time.

# 145

Posted: 17/07/2006 15:37

Kevin - as a matter of fact stress-free people do exist. Not many of us left though!

# 144

Posted: 17/07/2006 13:08

I won\'t try to keep track of Kevin\'s meanderings any more!

# 143

Posted: 17/07/2006 13:05

Mary - yes, I know! We don't have a stress-free society. To find a society that is completely without CNS stress, we have to go back in time to the small bands of hunter-gatherers of the Upper Paleolithic and beyond. Infanticide was widespread because these groups were semi-nomadic; mothers could not cope with more than one child at a time. CNS stress set in with the improved food supply and resulting population increase during the Early Neolithic, and continues to increase during the Bronze Age. By the time of the Iron Age, in most societies, stress has reached epidemic proportions. You can get a good idea of any society's CNS stress level from from aggression. The lower the stress, the more pacifiic a people tends to be; as stress increases, warfare becomes endemic - the Iron Age was one of the most bloodthirsty periods in human history. Now, we Irish have been brainwashed to believe that large families are the Roman Catholic ideal! Now can you see why so many Irish suffer from chronic CNS stress. Catholic virtue is - literally - killing us!

# 142

Posted: 17/07/2006 12:52

Mary, there is no such thing as a stress free person in my eyes. Anyone that claims they are are only codding themselves. Some of these committed believers are lunatics or have you not noticed?
And some of the scientists are lunatics as well. But no-one escapes stress at all because it is part of our make-up. If one just listened to the thoughts of their minds they would find a nice few stress ones coming through. Everyone is sensitive to something and some people carry more than others. While you believe that you were 'made' by an ovum and fertilized by a sperm there are many out there who would ask who made the ovum and who made the sperm?

# 141

Posted: 17/07/2006 09:00

But John, we don't have a stress free society, you only have to look around you to see that is quite obvious.

Kevin, do you seriously believe stress originates from people trying to figure out if there's a God or not?
Why then are all commited believers and commited athesits not stress-free as they appear to themselves to have the whole thing figured out.
I am convinved I was "made by" an ovum, fertilzed by a sperm and grown in a uterus. This is the most humans are made in fact.
Not everyone is a perfectionist and not everyone "carries" stress.

# 140

Posted: 17/07/2006 02:34

John, I couldn't be more focused on this topic. You just don't agree with my theories or cannot see what I am saying. I get the impression that you must think that I am one of these religious freaks but I can assure you that I am not.
I just see this subject as the one that confuses everybody and I understand their fear. People want to talk about this and so I am willing to converse with them always on this subject. Other people like to avoid this subject but that does nothing to eliminate or diminish the fear in people. By opening up this discussion you see so many ways that a person looks at life and the problems that they see in it. For instance an alcoholic said to me one time that he believes in a loving God. His image of a loving God though was one that allowed him to drink. One has to be extremely careful then in answering this particular thoughtform that this person has. You still want him to hold the vision of a loving God but not so loving that he allows him to do what he likes. This is why these conversations are so important.
Maybe now you can see where I am coming from.

# 139

Posted: 16/07/2006 14:08

Kevin - maybe later we'll get a chance to develop a thread on the origins of pre-rational thinking. For now, though, please stay focused on the main topic!

# 138

Posted: 15/07/2006 03:16

John, maybe you'll find the same except in the opposite direction. My forest is not a belief in God but is there a God there? If there is you can believe in him and if not you needn't bother. Trouble is no-one seems to know and this is where the confusion lies within each individual. That's where all stress originates from. Everyone is trying to be as good as they can in order to win favor from others. Or... Are they really trying to win favor from God or whoever made them? Most people are convinced that they were 'made' by someone or something. They see this someone or something after making something incredible all around them. So they drive themselves on to match this perfection. This automatically creates stress as many of their dreams and ambitions fall apart. They get the impression that they have failed in the eyes of themselves, everyone around them and God. So they fall into traps of despondancy and despair at times and find it increasingly hard to be happy.
On top of all that you have material wealth but this only comes on top of what is originally there. And so layers and layers of stress are created. There is no difference in personalities afterwards. Your type A only shows this stress outwardly and type B shows it inwardly although I would believe that there are 'carriers' of stress as well.

# 137

Posted: 14/07/2006 18:10

Kevin - so, your forest is a belief in God? Well, you're welcome to your belief! Maybe one day you'll wake up to find yourself living, not in a metaphorical forest, but in a pre-rational jungle!

# 136

Posted: 14/07/2006 18:04

We don't need stress to enable us to cope in a stress-free society.

A mild to moderate degree of CNS stress can be beneficial. It makes us more alert, more energetic, more ambitious, and we can get by with less sleep. But there's a price to be paid in the long term. The more we deprive ourselves of deep sleep, the less time we give our bodies to recover from wear and tear. And damage is cumulative! That's why many stressed people can burn the midnight oil as young men and women but as they get older the danger of succumbing to heart attacks and strokes increases. The short-tempered perfectionist (Type A) occupies the pathological extreme in the stress stakes.

# 135

Posted: 14/07/2006 14:10

Wasn't intending to open with anything.
So are you saying our ability to cope is acquired from the CNS stress we experience as infants and the stress you say we inherit?

Could CNS stres then be said to be a good thing?
Why is interesting is what causes this CNS stress in infancy.
Also, how do we inherit stress form out parents? Is it genetic? Is it becaUse they also experienced CNS stress as children , internalised it and are passing it on or is it in out upbringing. Becuase they were stressed, we pick up their stressful patterns and methods of coping - or not coping as the case may be?

Funny, your comment about stressed people creating stressful lives but is it not the case that daily we witness more and moe people becoming stressed. A god friend of mine is an example perhaps. Her father is your typical Type A, high tempered perfectionist. She too is stressed and worried aobut every little thing and seems to be permanently on the edge of a panic, Now her father got a wake up call in the fom of a massive heart attacj 5 yars ago and changed his outlook totally but this has not benefitted her at all.

# 134

Posted: 14/07/2006 12:42

Ah, Mary - trust you to open Pandora's box! Maybe, we can cope with stressful careers, stressful family life, etc., because the chronic CNS stress we acquire as infants adds to the stress we inherit from our parents. Stressed people tend to create stressful lifestyles, not only for themselves, but for everyone else as well. The great innovators in every walk of life have been 'driven' individuals even as youngsters, tireless, energetic, impatient. The rest of us - well, we have no choice but to adapt as best we can!

# 133

Posted: 13/07/2006 12:39

Paddy - keep the postings coming! Your last one illustrates to perfection how eager your kind are to transform a symptom into virtue: you admit you don't understand a word written here. But instead of admitting your ignorance, you invent a new syndrome for the authors! Paddy, do the sensible thing and go back to your comics!

# 132

Posted: 13/07/2006 11:41

Ah but John, surely to cure CNS stress, we must find out what causes it. Certainly in he last 20 years we have become more time-poor than we ever were. We must be up early to beat the ver growing traffic. we have tighter deadlines in the workplace and overtime is expected. We have longer queues and less time to wait in them, we have to rush home to collect the children. We prepare meals and eat them in a hurry. We do all the laundry on the fast cycle, we go to the pub early in order to get a seat, we rush through phone conversations. This surely is contributing to the cause of CNS stress.

P, could your 'Symptoms of terminal Malapropist Syndrome' becuased by CNS stress too do you think? :-)

# 131

Posted: 13/07/2006 02:12

John, You describe your forest as being the Chronic Central Nervous System Stress and its various syndromes as its symptoms. My forest is a belief in a God with its various syndromes as its symtoms. The biggest question on everybody's mind since time began is - Is there a God there and if so why doesn't he show himself? The second largest question is - What is death and do I go somewhere after? This is where all stress is coming from after. All those seriously ill people and all those people heavily addicted to drugs are carrying this 'can' for everyone else. I see this fear of not knowing in people every day of my life. People are terrified of death and what might Not be there afterwards when they die. Some are so afraid of it that they have to take their own lives because they cannot bear the waiting. It is no surprise that this has increased in Ireland because people are more afraid now than they ever were. They have no decent rock to hold unto at the moment. The alcoholic (not the one in the home, he is hiding from it) is searching for answers all the time. He searches through drink hoping to find someone or something on the way to give him clues. Everyday he does it moving from place to place. While you may think it's because he doesn't want to be seen drinking and is ashamed of what he does, I would say different. He moves around looking and searching for information that could put his mind at rest. Having watched the alcoholic for years I know what he is looking for and that is why I will bring up this conversation at every opportunity that I can. I word it in such a way that allows him to have input into it and I know that the alcoholic is calmer afterwards. There is a way but it takes observation, commitment and patience to help the alcoholic and it does pay off. There isn't a publican in the country who doesn't want to see a person hurt by a product that he sells. That is like a doctor not being able to save a patient from a heart attack. More than anything else we want to see the alcoholic enjoying his drink rather than being controlled by it. But first of all the alcoholic must be understood.

# 130

Posted: 12/07/2006 21:18

I've read a few of the new posts and I can honestly say they're unlike anything I've ever seen.
I don't know what's being said here and I don't think anyone else does, including the "authors". 'Symptoms of terminal Malapropist Syndrome are scattered throughout. I now need a stiff drink(even though I'm off it)and some soothing music!
Thank you.

# 129

Posted: 12/07/2006 15:51

And, anyway, if we want to find the most important key - the one that unlocks the root cause of the predisposition to alcoholism -we must look beyond the typical symptoms of that particular syndrome. We have to put aside the sharp focus that enables us to isolate the symptoms. We must adopt a more global cognitive mode - one that throws into sharp relief the background neuronal events that create the symptoms. In other words, if we want to understand one tree (alcoholism), we have to first understand the forest. And that precisely is where researchers the world over have a big problem. They understand the need to see the forest. But they have been so blinded by rigid focus on their individual trees that they neglected the forest. The forest in this case turns out to be Chronic Central Nervous System Stress; and the various syndromes are the symptoms. So, now you can see why nobody - not even a publican! - can hope to cure alcoholism. But if our medical people can find a way to cure chronic CNS stress - then, as if by magic - not only the predisposition to alcoholism but all the other symptoms would vanish!

# 128

Posted: 12/07/2006 15:26

You know John, re: our comment about Noel Browne, my father would be the first in line tro agree with you and unliek myself, he was actually around in the 50's and remembers them.

# 127

Posted: 12/07/2006 12:35

Kevin - how right you are! The Health system in this country is a closed system, jeaously guarded by an ambitious elite. Remember what happened to Dr. Noel Browne in the \'fifties? He was the only genuine reform-minded Health minister this country has ever seen or is ever likely to see. His heart was in the right place but unfortunatly for him (and the rest of us) he was politically naive. Church and state (the other closed systems) united against him, relegating him to the back benches for the rest of his life. There\'s a lesson to be learned from Noel Browne\'s fate, Kevin: don\'t waste your time using a key to open the door - kick the thing in! It can be done.

# 126

Posted: 12/07/2006 12:20

KEVIN, HOW ARE PUBLICANS GOING TO CURE ALCOHOLICS?

I was referrign to cortisol not cortisone, quite different tho; an easy typo to make. No I would not ecommend smoking to anyone. It puts people at risk of far too many serious illnesses bu then we know that already.
The first thing I would do, is have a panel of blood tests taken to determine if you are over-producing cortisol or underproducing adrenalin and then find out te root cause as to WHY, not self medicate the symtoms with cigarettes. Smoking is not more a lifestyle change than alcoholism. Both are addictions and it doesn't cue excess cortisol production anymore than alcohol cures shyness or stress, or the CNS stress than John is suggesting is at the root cause of it.