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(Thursday, 31st Jul, 2014)

Abortion - the personal trauma

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3,037 Posts

buzz  ·  06 Dec 2011

Agree regarding the sex ed point. I went to second level in the late nineties and even then the information we got was too little too late. Of course nowadays I dont think many people can plead ignorance when it comes to unplanned pregnancies but certainly not too long ago it was an issue. Then there are other things people do not realise like how different drugs can affect the pill etc etc. It's not always clear cut.

 

12,082 Posts

Anonymous  ·  05 Dec 2011

Intersting perspective Portia and I agree with many of your points. Of course not all are indoctrinated but many, many are. Gettingbetter, I am around your age also and hard and all as it is to beleive that about your first sex ed conversation, I do not doubt it for a second. We had 1 sex-ed class at 12 - when the majority of girls already had their periods, telling how babies were made without once mentuoning the sex act and another at 14 all about periods (when we all had them by then) again without ever actually mentioning sex at all. Absolutely ridiculous.It is great that you have finally come through and you are healing tho how awful that it should have been such a struggle and taken so long.

 

1 Posts

gettingbetter  ·  23 Nov 2011

WOW, This conversation thread has been going on for 10 years if I am correct and much longer in our country! I am a 40 year old Irish woman and I remember my first sex ed conversation - it was at the maternity after I gave birth to my eldest child! I also remember that year when condoms went on public view for sale in chemists, then is it no wonder we had/have such a high rate of unplanned pregnancies and terminations! I had an abortion when I was 17 and finally came to terms with it at the age of 35, through counselling. I still mark the day of termination and this does bring some peace however a regret still hangs over me somewhat and that is the wasted years in between when I was riddled with guilt ( some catholic based). I truly believe if the proper counselling services were in place at the time for me, then I could have moved on with my life and grieved my baby without letting my decision remain so destructive for a further 18 years. I went on to have a large and wonderful family that I am truly blessed to have but will never forget my first pregnancy and how it ended and the attitude of ireland and lack of services nearly destroyed me. I hope people out there in turmoil avail of the services and give feedback negative and positive so they can be improved and updated all the time. To any woman out there going through this, my heart goes out to you and I hope you make an informed decision and go on to find happiness in your life x


gettingbetter

 

3,037 Posts

buzz  ·  14 Nov 2011

Portia, with respect, you cannot make sweeping statements like that. Just because somebody does not agree with abortion does not mean they have been indoctrinated or brainwashed, nor are they part of a herd. I do not agree with abortion but I can assure you I wouldnt step foot inside a church! Regardless of our differences of opinion, I would not make such insulting comments about YOUR beliefs. Just because someone does not hold the same views as you does not make them "wrong" (by this logic, you too would be wrong because your views oppose mine) - it makes them DIFFERENT. If you want to argue a point, fine but please do so in a logical and mature way, rather than making sweeping statements that anyone who dares to disagree with you cannot think for themselves. Much as you believe pro-lifers are raging a war on women, some of us belive pro-choicers are raging a war on the unborn. There are no winners in this sad and complicated issue.

 

10 Posts

Portia27  ·  12 Nov 2011

I note in this discussion the feelings incurred in having an abortion or not having one.

Abortion is and should be a personal choice - not one imposed by patriarchal institutions like the church, where men in dresses have ruled over women's bodies and reproduction for thousands of years now.

This indoctrination is then absorbed into the collective consciousness which people use to form opinions, which they believe are their own, but in fact are not. Most are part of the herd mentality and the patriarchal for and against, divide and conquer mentality, which is so evident here.

The same indoctrination re adoption exists in the collective consciousness, where once again women are usually coerced, bombarded into making a decision based on the more authoritarian person around at the time the decision is being made.


 

12,082 Posts

Anonymous  ·  12 Sep 2011

Sad as it is, tomboy, abortion is now one of the choices that women make. I agree entirely that we should look at the better way to minimize abortion as a choice women make or feel they have to resort to.

No men have no say in this area as a man compelling someone else to go through something like that against her will is completely unethical. However, I do think that helping your son and his girlfiend and supporting them they way you did, was a wonderful thing to do. I hope more parents can do the same. You seem to have a wonderful outlook on crisis pregnancies. It is fantastic that your tracing your son. If only so many mothers (and adoptees) were able to do so successfully, it would save such a huge buden of hurt, grief and pain in this area. The very best of luck with it and I do hope you get a chance to meet him. It would of course be truely wonderful if every child was a wanted child.

 

225 Posts

tomboy  ·  30 Aug 2011

Buzz, Thanks so much for your lovely comments. It makes me feel so much better and I am so glad that I didn't abort him. I only hope that my son has found a lovely brother like you or a lovely sister. I really wish that I could meet him. Do you know I feel ready now and I would finally be able to get a bit of closure. Thanks again.


I believe in all that is seen and unseen.

 

3,037 Posts

buzz  ·  29 Aug 2011

Tomboy the best of luck with finding your son. I wish you well. You did a very brave, selfless thing to give up your body for 9 months to give your child life, and to give the gift of a child to somebody else. My own brother was adopted and I sometimes think, "God, if his birth mother had chosen a different route..." Anyway thank God she made her decision to carry him and give him up. I cannot begin to imagine how hard it was for her (or you) to do this but of course you can sleep at night knowing that you gave him life! (And I now have the best best best big brother in the world thanks to another woman's selflessness and ability to think about someone else).

A family friend has an adopted son who traced his birth mother a few years ago - both his birth and adoptive mothers were at his wedding!!! So lovely :) I really do hope it all works out for you and your son.

Regards x

 

225 Posts

tomboy  ·  25 Aug 2011

Anon, I know in hindsight we might see better ways. But surely abortion cannot now be one of the choices that women make. We must look at the better way and I believe that most people would have abortion down as the least way that a women could go. If we are to evolve properly in life then we must learn to leave cruel ways behind us. We have to learn how to love more deeply and aborting our children does not show love. It is a disregard for human life and this can only be a backward step. I know women who are messed up from abortion. I have seen a part of them die. I have seen the laughter go from them and they are now more quieter and more serious. Most teenagers cannot comprehend motherhood yet but it's when they have children later in their lives - it is then they realise what they have done and they begin to grieve in a different more intense way. The women I know would take it all back in the morning and would choose adoption.

                                           And there are others who wish their boyfriends could have stopped them from having abortions but men seem to have no say in this area here in Ireland. My own son was going to pay for his girlfriends abortion eight years ago but now that the child is here he is so glad that they didn't go through with it. He absolutely adores him now and looks after him very well even though he and his girlfriend have since broken up. It was I who pursuaded them not to have an abortion and they are so glad that they didn't do it now.

                                              It need not be the end of the world anon if you become pregnant in difficult circumstances. That child is coming for a reason. That child is going to teach you lots of things and bring you to new places. Or you can give that child away to someone who can give it what it needs. I am in the process of tracing my child at the moment but I have heard nothing yet. All I want to do Anon, is to meet with him once. Then I can go to my grave happy. All through the years I have spoken to him in my mind, constantly asking him how he is getting on. I never stopped thinking about him any day and judging by the very first letter I got from his adopted mother when he was 19 he seems to be getting on very well. I have a dream Anon. That every child will be a wanted child. I think Ireland is a great example in not allowing abortion. I am convinced that this decision has saved lots of children and even if one child only was saved it would be enough. Going to England that time for me was too much trouble and it was costing too much. Now my child is alive and well.


I believe in all that is seen and unseen.

 

12,082 Posts

Anonymous  ·  24 Aug 2011

Yes, tomboy, perhaps you're right. Perhaps fear is a big part of it. As you say you had it back on the 70's but maybe didn't have enough of it to keep and raise your baby and perhaps ths is what women are still afraid of and for some maybe they are in abusive relationships and don't have the support to enable them to leave, maybe there are medical complictions ( and no-one with even a shred of anything but comtempt for women coiuld blame them in that situation) and for some maybe they just do not want to be mothers. The facts are there to prove it. Per capita (per head of population) our abortion rates for Irish abortions are very similar.  This is what I mean tomboy, you had a crisis pregnancy, you lost a child through adoption and had emotional pain and trauma as a result and as you say the truama for you woudl have been worse had you had an abortion - therefore you must surely understand it for women who have had abortion and have experieced trauma from that.For a woman having an abortion, that takes courage too.  When you married and chose to have seven more children, I presume then they they were children that you wanted - rather then crisis pregnancies - totally different from having the courage in a crisis pregnancy situation. It sounds like you love your children so much and I hope you and every parent who feels that tells your children how they feel, often. It's a great thing to see and perhaps women would feel they had more optios oin a crisis situation if they felt loved, A great thing to see, so clearly they were the right choice for you but this is not the case for every woman. Every one makes different chouce and we can do so only with the information we have at the time. The benefit of hindsight is always 20 / 20.

 

225 Posts

tomboy  ·  24 Aug 2011

No, I don't understand abortion any more. Not in the so-called civilisation we are in at this time. The only thing that I can go on is that I am glad to be alive and that I was given the opportunity to do so. Why then is this being denied to other people? Why aren't they being given the chance to breath life like we do and all the opportunities that life brings? Why are women so afraid to bring these children into the world? In my eyes it is only fear that is preventing these women having these children. Fear of pregnancy, fear that they won't have enough money to support them. fear that neighbours will condem them or whatever. Fears can be overcome by the right support and the right support is out there. I had it back in the 1970's so there is far more support there now in this day and age.

                                                     I don't believe that Britain has the same abortion rates as ourselves not with the population we have. Thats absurd.

 You also said that I of all people should understand the trauma of abortion seeing as I put up a child for adoption. Yes, of course there was severe emotional pain in doing this but for me there would have been far more of that type of pain involved if I was to have aborted it. I learned about courage that time and this has stood to me all my life. I went on to have seven more children when I married and it takes an awful lot of courage to go through this amount of pregnancies. Yet my kids are all so different. They are magnificent and I know that each and everyone of them are so delighted at been given the opportunity of life.


I believe in all that is seen and unseen.

 

12,082 Posts

Anonymous  ·  24 Aug 2011

Tonboy, do you have any evidence or facts to provide your assertion, that women who are not Irish are giving Irish addresses we travelling to UK for abortion? In fact there is a long history of Irish women havign abortion in the UK and givign UK addresses - of friends or family. Interestingly the numbers for Irish abortions (in UK) is very similar to the numnber of British abortions.

So you think a lot more women are trumatised yet your contrubution is "if I sound harsh in my posts then so be it"  - do tou really think for a second that such a condemnatory attitude does anythig but the opposite of help? Is that what you want - to truamatise women even further? Becuase if so you are in the wroing discussion.

I am sorry to hear about you losing your chilod through adoption. Great that you got some help at the time. However, no-one is conmdemning you for your decsion, just as you do not the the right to condemn other women for theirs. To say that women that can cope with abortions have either no feelings or are brainwashed into thinking that the child they carry isn't even alive is a) arrogant judgementalism which has not place there and b) is nothing father from the truth.

Are you with them 24/7? No you are not either.

So you reckon that many women suffer torture over what they have had to do? I am glad you admit that is is what they had to do - and yes, prhaps they left down by society. Yet you think it's alright for you to sling harsh judgementalism at them to increase theoir pain? What sort of woman ARE you? You of all people should surely understand.

 

225 Posts

tomboy  ·  24 Aug 2011

You say that 90% of women is grossly exaggerated. Well I reckong the number travelling to Britain or giving Irish adresses is also greatly exaggerated. Not having abortion in this country has probably saved a lot of children, thank God. Someone has to stand up for the unborn so if I sound harsh in my posts then so be it.

                                               It is wrong in this day and age when we have plenty of contraceptives that are so easy to get. I had a crisis pregnancy myself and I did think about abortion. But I got great help. was given a job even and I put my child up for adoption. Of course it was hard to give my child away but if I had killed it I definately would not be able to live with myself. Women that can cope with abortions have either no feelings or are brainwashed into thinking that the child they carry isn't even alive. That's the message that pro-choice put across. How do you know that these women are able to cope with an abortion? Are you with them 24/7? No you are not. I reckon that many women suffer torture over what they have had to do but were left down by society. Yet there is loads of help out there and alternatives to abortion but somehow the women aren't getting them. Every child is a wanted child if not by the mother then by other people who are willing to take them.


I believe in all that is seen and unseen.

 

12,082 Posts

Anonymous  ·  23 Aug 2011

tomboy, this discussion is about the personal trama of abortion. Do you really think your judgemental remarks and "wouldabeen" comments are actually helpful?

For right or wrong, abortion is an option and the option which some take or maybe feel they have no choice but to take. Everyone has 20 / 20 vision in hindsight, that's easy. But if you think for one second that telling a traumatised women about how barbaric and murderous she is and how she is fooling herself, you are on the wrong discussion. As a matter of fact, many women are ok after having one, they are just the ones you never hear a word about becuase they never seek help becuase they don't have any problems they need help with  - regardless of what you think about that, so your figure of 90% is a massively erronious invention of the anti-choice "pro-life" lobby. But is it any wonder some women would have problems when they meet such judgemental and hateful attitudes as yours.

 

225 Posts

tomboy  ·  22 Aug 2011

Anyone who has been given the right to live (as we all have) should never take it away from someone else. What if that person was going to be the president of Ireland, be a great doctor or design a beautiful building ect? Do you think that they will be no good if you have them? Abortion should never be an option. It is barbaric and any woman that says she is okey after having one is only fooling herself. A massive 90% of women have trouble living with themselves afterwards. It is after all murder and if one can't see that then they are not living in the real world.


I believe in all that is seen and unseen.

 

9 Posts

Olly  ·  01 Feb 2010

If you are feeling bad please go for non-judgemental counselling. It should help, try to avoid counselling from Catholic based organisations if possible or you may end up feeling worse. Personally, I had an abortion 10 years ago and I don't feel that I willfully took a human life, I have no regrets for my decision and going through with a pregnancy (and giving a child up for adoption) is not as easy as it sounds.

 

3,037 Posts

buzz  ·  01 Feb 2010

With respect, I disagree with abortions, as a woman it goes completely against the grain for me, but to those who have posted nasty comments here there ARE other threads where the issue is being discussed. This thread is a support for people who are going through a tough time because of something they have done and whether or not we agree with what they have done this is NOT the place to air views in order to hurt others. There are some threads here that people use for support (for example the anxiety one which I use and would not like people to use to have a go at anxiety sufferers!!) and I dont think its fair to hijack these for airing personal views, as there are plenty of other threads which are specifically for teasing out debates etc and are somewhat more objective and less likely to hurt people who are seeking support.

 

12,082 Posts

Anonymous  ·  01 Feb 2010

Mayla, may I respectfully suggest that you seek counselling for the feelings you are trying to work through. Help is out there and you don't have to feel alone. The IFPA I understand, provide post-abortion counselling and have professionally qualified non-judgemental staff who are trained to help. Good Luck and take care.

iknow - your judgemental comments are NOT helpful and frankly NOT relevant to every woman who has had an abortion. Adoption is NOT always a subsitute for abortion - if it were, abortion would not be sought. When safe and legal abortion was not an option women resorted to unsafe illegal and abortion and still do in certain countries - this is well known. What you may be so "sure" does not apply to every woman - unless you are living her life - which you are not. If you are going to contribute, why don't you just try to helpful to women who have had abortions rather thna making judgement calls on things you have no experience of

 

22 Posts

iknow.imgood  ·  01 Feb 2010

i read these posts, agreeing with some and not with others. I have to say anyone who has had an abortion, realise eventually that they wilfully decided to terminate a human life. I think women should have the child and offer it for adoption or fostering but to choose abortion to rid of 'their unplanned pregnancy' is one of the saddest things. If abortion wasnt an option in todays worlds, i am sure women out there would have eventually grown to manage their lives with their babies in it and moved on and lived a happier life. Have the child and give it up to someone that wants a child to rear and love it.

 

1 Posts

mayla  ·  29 Jan 2010

i had an abortion 2 years ago , brushed it under the carpet and now its like i've been hit by a train, dont understand why this is haunting me now, fighting with everyone , affecting work , my relationship, feel this week its come to a head , dont want to exist any more , regret is terrible thing , no going back , so depressed and no one to talk to , why wasnt i strong enough to keep my baby ! feel like a murderer cause it was so not my personality to do something like that ,

dont know wat to do but its a scary feeling !

hazelxxx

 

8 Posts

ok  ·  15 Feb 2009

thank you patrica,

i agree people are allowed to have there oppions but how they have chosen to air them on this discussion is so deeply saddening. How could they make those comments. No one wants to have an abortion deep down but are left with no other option. I know I did not want to have one but my the father insisted. So i find what people have said so idiotic.

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  13 Feb 2009

Like so many other discussion threads, this one has, sadly, also been hijacked.  It is titled: Abortion-the personal trauma.  There is another thread on the subject of whether abortion should be legalised in Ireland, where posters can give their opinions for and against.

Here it is about the personal trauma involved.

Could I just comment that people can give opinions.  What they cannot do is JUDGE others, or insult others, or demean them.  No one is entitled to judge another person.  Remember, while you are busy looking for the speck in another's eye you are ignoring the plank of wood in your own! 

Patricia

 

8 Posts

ok  ·  26 Jan 2009

Im not sure if there is any other discussions but if you want someone to talk to about we can on this... have you had an abortion??

 

1 Posts

ChristineCally  ·  26 Jan 2009

Is there any other discussion where girls who have had abortions can share their feelings with one another?

 

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Anonymous  ·  03 Nov 2008
Contraceptives fail, people get sick, lose their jobs or their homes. You do not have 100% control over everything that happens in your life. No one does.
Nat
 

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Anonymous  ·  03 Nov 2008
lucky?You think that it was pure luck that I didnt get pregnant? No, it was because I used contraception.
 

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Anonymous  ·  03 Nov 2008
Anonymous, you were LUCKY not to be in that situation, that's all. You do not have 100% control over everything that happens in your life. No one does. Contraceptives fail, people get sick, lose their jobs or their homes. That may happen your kid someday and if your attitude to them is going to be that harsh, then yes I do pity them
 

8 Posts

ok  ·  30 Oct 2008
i think people in this discussion need to start a discussion somewhere else, the title is 'abortion- the personal trauma'. most of you do not belong here. people wish to discuss there personal experience with others who sympathise and empathise, consider this..carefully all of you. You are hurting grieving people.
 

8 Posts

ok  ·  30 Oct 2008
M_18... i know how you feel.. i recently went through an abortion, it has been 4 months now and its harder than ever.. but still 90% of the time the right decision.. but im glad to know im not alone on it.. its the hardest thing I will ever did, hope you are doing well and suffered no complications.
 

26 Posts

Alex  ·  30 Oct 2008
Anonymous Posted: 29/08/2008 17:09 I've just read back though my posts and tried to remember ever having said 'why get pregnant then choose abortion'. I have not said this, that is not my opinion, which i thought would be obvious.
 

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Anonymous  ·  29 Oct 2008
Well, if teaching my children that it is wrong to take away the life of an unborn baby makes me a bad mother then so be it. I'd rather that than my child grows up without values.
 

8 Posts

ok  ·  28 Oct 2008
Well again, not a very educated answer..I'm not trying to change your mind, just that you need to consider people's feelings, not just your own. do you think I did it on purpose, no I don't think so contraceptives fail, your kid some day may turn to you in this situation, and I would question your parenting skills if you think your manner is appropriate.
 

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Anonymous  ·  28 Oct 2008
OK the REASON I have not been in this position is because I have not PUT myself in it! I have no wish to get pregnant and then decide it's "not the right time" and make my unborn child pay for my lack of timing.
 

8 Posts

O.K  ·  26 Oct 2008
I feel saddened and discussed at what this ĎAnonymousí individual has to say about abortion when clearly they have not been put in the position of making the decision of whether to keep or not there unborn child, so your comments and statements seem null to me. as I have recently made that decision and though it is an upsetting experience, itís the right decision for me, and the father. You seem to be a small person, that you make these what you consider harsh statements, but you obviously seem scared of your own convictions that you choose to stay anonymous.
 

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Anonymous  ·  16 Sep 2008
Talk of playground tactics is rich coming from "Anonymous" who has done nothing else since he started his bitter insults on this discussion - which might I remind you is about the personal trauma of abortion,so if you have nothing helpful to contribute which might be positive for women, then why do you bother coming on here - unless it is to get some sort of sick kicks from insulting and jibing others with your uncaring spite.
Anonymous Posted: 29/08/2008 17:09 - well said.

Natalie
 

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Anonymous  ·  29 Aug 2008
I just have to say, women who have abortions, do NOT take lives! Especially when the "child" is no more than 3 months old, inside the woman's stomach. Usually, we do Not choose to have an abortion, it's just that we have no choice. We are not ready, we are not mature enough to handle a baby, and when Alex, u ask why get pregnant at first? We do not plan to get pregnant just to have an abortion later. It usually is a mistake, something went wrong, and finally, we have no choice. I think it is wrong to characterize women who have abortions as "murderers" because we are not! U men do not have to think about anything when it comes to that! U have no idea what it feels like to have to remove something that could be your baby. So please, i dont think any man has any right to say anything in this discussion, only because you're a man.. and u dont have the problem...!
 

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Anonymous  ·  29 Aug 2008
ah yes now we are going for the old playground tactic of talking to others and ignoring one whose beliefs differ from yours. My how very grown up of you nat, and you have the cheek to call ME a child.
 

159 Posts

Charlotte (cbreen)  ·  29 Aug 2008
Anonymous Posted: 29/08/2008 09:42

Generally the term is used in the first sense, i.e. to form an opinion on... although people generally perfer to use a less "judgemental" expression, such as "I figure", " I reckon", "I think". (Interesting how even there, the term, as used in it's second form, points fingers from moral high-ground...)

In your case, as you are judging, condemning (which you can hardly deny) and handing out sentence (you would deny those who terminate a pregnancy under conditions of which you disapprove access to children and you would deny those in crisis pregnancies who are not victims of rape or incest access to a service which for many of them has been mandated by this society as a right, access to abortion services) then you are in fact, not as part of an opinion, using the expression in it's second format.

And your arguing with and about dictionaries will make no difference to the patterns of linguistics and semantics used in society. Accurate and informed use of the English language is another area which could do with a polish in our education system.
 

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Anonymous  ·  29 Aug 2008
Charlotte and Alex, it is impossible to reason with the unreasoned as much as we might like to enlighten them, their irrationality goes where logic simply cannot follow. It's like arguing with a child who insists that Black is white - except that a child larns a sense of logic as they grow up.
 

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Anonymous  ·  29 Aug 2008
actually you are wrong there charlotte. Like I said, we all do it on a daily basis, I dont recall handing out a sentence to someone. You can copy and paste from as many online dictionaries as you like until you find the wording to suit your argument but it makes no difference.
 
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