Mary Harney - still hopping through Angola

# 29

Posted: 03/10/2009 19:29

JoanM,

I apologise to you....unreservedly; I 'read' the end of your post in haste and obviously...very wrongly....and I now notice ' Broken' is in tune with u...and I'm sorry I wasn't as helpful as her/him.....sorry again.

Razor...would not disagree with you there at all !

# 28

Posted: 30/09/2009 14:08

Mary Harney was minister for enterprise from 1997 until 2004. This was the period in which Fás’s budget doubled to €1 billion per year even though we had full employment. Harney appointed Molloy, friend and occasional employee of Fianna Fáil, to be its chief executive in 2000.  It was Harney who received an anonymous letter alerting her to problems with Fás spending in 2004 which she passed on to Rody Molloy. Harney is guilty of creating the monster that is Fás today and she is also guilty of creating this diabolical and catastrophic health service run by the HSE.

However the buck stops with the electorate! The brainwashed imbeciles who voted these people into power are ultimately to blame for this fiasco. We deserve no better!

# 27

Posted: 29/09/2009 13:01

Brandy, Please! Of COURSE I was joking in calling him the 'lovely Mr Cowen'. PPPPPllllllleeeeaaaassssee! Have you been reading what I've been saying at all?

Thank you, Broken, for your calm contribution.

Joan.

# 26

Posted: 28/09/2009 19:53

Joan,

I find it hard to think there are BAD people out there, just greedy people really, and no person who has any sense would go into politics, its a fool's game.

Discussion is a good thing, but not if the sparks fly and injure a person in debated

Don't take anything personal here.  I think many are ranting and many are justifiably ranting and venting. Whether it actually does any good at the end of the day, i donno.

xbroken

"Please God, help the ignorant!"

# 25

Posted: 28/09/2009 18:05

To all,

JoanM....in her last post, says that she writes in "good faith"...and...she "doesn't have an agenda"....and she says I'm angry and that people who disagree with me may be good people.

That I am angry I will not deny;  I listened today to elderly women and their relatives on Joe Duffy's 'liveline' who suffered at the hands of the religious in the 'Magdelen Laundries'....aided and abbetted by the govts + the idiotic society of the times.  If that isn't enough to boil your blood JoanM....then perhaps O'Keefe's response to this is:  He has said that because 'some' girls (possibly thousands) were not 'legally' the responsibility of the state (because they had not gone from industrial schools to....'the laundries')....the state is not responsible....and the deal (??) with the REDRESS BOARD does not apply to them ????  That's a good one JoanM isn't it.....when we consider the 'other deal' done to help their pals in Fas etc ???  Yep...still angry here....and you are fundamentally wrong on another issue....people who disagree with me (and others) on the above types of issue...ARE NOT GOOD PEOPLE...END OF !!!

In my opinion....you DO have an agenda JoanM....and I refuse to believe that you are anything like an 'ordinary' punter....otherwise....why would you have said..."perhaps the politicians were once good people too before they became infected with the power virus....power certainly corrupts does'nt it?....even in Holy Ireland."....and....this 'takes the biscuit'...."...at least it's the lovely Mr. Cowen at the helm and not the Gadaffis and Mugabes....." !!!

You write in good faith...JoanM??   Jesus and whoever else...help us and protect us....Eva Braun was enamoured of Hitler....like many millions of fools....please tell us you're joking about "the lovely Mr. Cowen" !!

Oh...and by the way....you are not (definitely not) withdrawing gracefully from this discussion....like many who came before you....your faith/support (probably generational) of the greedy politicians has been proven to be exactly what it is....an extension of the power-base and corruption of politics in general in Ireland....which NONE of the parties have agreed to resolve !! 

If the recent revelations re the poor Magdelen girls above is questionable....why is it the "lovely Mr. Cowen" and his supporters + other politicians do not immediately withdraw support/monies for the Bankers and their friends in Fas etc ???

You may withdraw JoanM....but without the truth coming out...it can hardly be called graceful !!

# 24

Posted: 28/09/2009 14:19

Thank you, JCBD. Yes, I do write in good faith. And Brandy, I don't have an agenda. Do you really think that 'busy' people with 'agendas' waste their time writing here? I don't think so. I'm just a very ordinary punter with the occasional opinion. And now I'm withdrawing gracefully from this discussion because it has become one about Brandy's anger rather than the ordinary punter. You don't have sole rights to problems, Brandy. People who disagree with you may be good people, believe it or not. I expect you won't believe it.

Perhaps the politicians were once good people too before they became infected with the power virus. Power certainly corrupts, doesn't it? Even in 'holy' Ireland. Maybe we need to count our blessings, at least it's the lovely Mr Cowen at the helm and not the Gadaffis and Mugabes of the world.

# 23

Posted: 26/09/2009 17:25

tatty,

Thanks for your post....and you raise a couple of very interesting points.

My own opinion is that people (worldwide) have been sucked into the consumer (one up on the jones's society). I'm old enough to remember (when I was 10+ going to the local village on the back of a donkey n cart (I kid you not!). I remember sleeping on a mattress (10 to a bed so-to-speak)...and telling stories till the early hours. I remember 'slopping' out pigs and working all day (12+hrs) in a turf bog....with one break for a mug of tea and a jam sandwitch....looking forward to a dinner of home grown spuds and dark green cabbage (rarely any meat)...followed by a mug of daily-fresh milk !!

The reason that people have voted for the politicians you mentioned...is that they have been sucked in by the rich peoples lies and self-serving crap! Do you know....I do not have one memory, not one single memory....until I was 16....of any person even mentioning inflation, corruption etc.?? Now...ok...it might be said that I was 'immune' to such comments....and may not have really heard/listened to what was going on around me....but, dear God....I can assure you....young people now have no such luxury; the way society is going (being allowed to go)....the young are to be pitied !!

I spent most of my early years being protected from the potential of a corrupt society...apart from a few horrible years...with the religious. I have many, many fantastic memories.....and I am one of the very few lucky ones; not because I had wealth....but because I had a wonderful, wonderful mother who new what was possible (albeit little commercially) to give me!

If I had one thing to say about the politicians in this country it would be this: "you have, over generations....collectively, 'raped' the youth of this country....and robbed them of what should be a wonderful part of the human process....growing-up naturally and with all the protection that decent society should provide" !!

# 22

Posted: 25/09/2009 00:57

Why all those idiots voted bertie and his band of misfit monkeys back into power time after time baffles me. The goverment of Ireland needs to be either re organised or even better thrown out all together . I really believe that the same amount of senior school children could proberbly run our goverment and health service on a better economic  more benifical basis than the band of greedy  government members at this present time.

# 21

Posted: 24/09/2009 22:31

jcbd,

Are my posts presented as 'angry'??...you 'betcha'...and do you know why?

Well, actually...that's a stupid question....if you don't know why I'm angry then we're on separate plains of existence....which i've found to be a common situation when dealing with some posters!

Regarding my 'anger' as you call it; you will find it has been 'reactionary' ....and always open to scrutiny (as these posts should be)...should you wish to trawl through my many posts.

So doing...I would hope that you would judge me to be accurate (well, perhaps not all the time) and fair; however...if you disagree with my 'angry' opinions regarding the obvious disregard for the poorer people in this society....then...let's here your logic to the contrary....please!

Look forward to your 'logical' humanitarian response !

Broken + Anonymous et al.....I want to thank you very much....it's posts like yours that give us hope for this country....and God knows....we need every scrap we can get.....I wish there were more posters like yourselves....not just to agree with me...but to open up discussion (angry or not)...and show that we are not a nation of 'sheep' ! Thank you again.

# 20

Posted: 24/09/2009 18:06

About anger. Anger is one of human's emotion/feelings which come with us as humans as does, joy, happiness and sadness and all the gamut of emotions and feelings. That is what makes us human.

Anger is NOT a bad emotion and is a very useful emotion as it cuts through complatency and actually can act for good.

Verbal espressions of Anger allow for anger to be express other than sticking knives, shooting or doing other dangerous things to many people.

in this instance, on a forum like this anger in not inappropiate.

Many think Anger as a feeling or emotion is a bad emotion. It is NOT. if it wasnt for anger nothing would get done.

"Please God, help the ignorant!"

# 19

Posted: 24/09/2009 11:33

I note that Brandy is a regular Poster and has observations to make which raise very important issues but as another Poster could I request that she reduces to zero the level of anger, vitriol and personal attack whick which she addreses to anyone who dares to disagree with her own point of view.

By doing this exercise Brandy will still be heard by other Posters but is much less likely to be dismissed as merely cranky and occasionally entertaining.

Brandy could start by moderating any potential response to this Post, including avoidance of too many quick assumptions about this or any other poster's point of view on the health service. I trust that like Joan M or myself that Brandy expresses a point of view on particular issues in good faith. But by appearing to question all the time other people's good faith all you do Brandy is raise unfortunate questions about your own and that is regrettable.

# 18

Posted: 24/09/2009 10:33

Brandy, for all you have written and the stories of hundreds, maybe thousands more, you are fully justified in your anger. Broken, for what it's worth I think your suggestion has the basis for an extremely good idea.

# 17

Posted: 23/09/2009 18:23

JoanM,

Why so angry?

1.  You are obviously in the ....'Im ok...and to hell with everyone else' mode !  tell us all... NOW..... have you, or any one close to you....been at the receiving end of a delay/misdiagnosis....or other indication of a 2 tier health system in Ireland ?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

2.   Do you agree with the billions 'we' are 'obliged' to spend to bail out the *ankers...while our (poorer) children are dying from cystic fibrosis because they STILL have'nt got enough secure units in hospitals that would save their lives....even after years of promises etc etc ?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

3.  Do you abhor the multi-millions foisted on tax-payers to pay for the whims (idiocies) of politicians re....e-voting machines.....and....ABSOLUTELY USELESS quangos that suck money from the public purse that is....IS....as I write....condemning children, their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, daughters and all other relations....to endless sorrow and pain ?  A simple yes or no will suffice.

just to clarify....I have nothing but the highest regard for the front-line staff in the health-service.....but 40% + admin seems to me to indicate where Harney, Drumm etc have their priorities !

ANGRY??   JoanM.....I could go on and on.....but.....any way...JoanM....please answer the above truthfully....and....if even if you don't...I'm sure we'll all know what you are about !!

Let's remember folks....there are those posting...who have an agenda...let's use our intelligence to reply/comment....because only by asking/probing can we get to the truth!

John Williams, broken, yogi, anonymous and others....thank you.

# 16

Posted: 23/09/2009 17:46

I hope Ms. Harney and Brendan drumm read these posts, I wonder are we just debating amongst the angry converted while they amuse themselves on different themes. Far away from thought of the mess they put us in or even have a concience of the mess they put us in.

I doubt it.  I know we are by nature a debating nation, but where has it got us also?

You have to think long and hard how best to get out of the woeful situation, and i doubt casting debate and anger at those in charge will do it, and i also doubt if any other politician can do any better.

What say you of a citizen's forum to man the health service, that is a round table forum of all the specialities who actually know something about management/economics/research and medicine, both at the top end of consultancy, research and all the auxillary medical personel who are so important for day to day running.

I see a need to get the best from everyone concerned and not leave it up to just about anyone who will take the job and then 'buy in' the expertise.

x

"Please God, help the ignorant!"

# 15

Posted: 23/09/2009 14:25

I agree with John's eloquent summation and Brandy's straight talking - maybe she has every reason to be angry. From what I can seen the only real change that has been made is to make things a lot worse - a damning indictment of our so called 'celtic tiger'.

# 14

Posted: 22/09/2009 22:12

Isn't it interesting - Mary Harney has been throwing money at private profitmaking "hospitals" (that work 8 hour days), while the United States is going in the opposite direction. If Boston goes to universal health insurance, will Ireland still be closer to Boston than to Berlin?

# 13

Posted: 22/09/2009 14:56

In my view Ms. Harney took away more than she ever gave, everyone does a little in their job, but in such an important position, more is expected of one if all you can deliver is one or two good results in all the years she has been in power.

what has been done is negated by the loss of monies, through the investment in the consultants whims and feed them more and more of the tax payers money by way of fees when in all honesty the tax payer wants that extra cash for all they could do, say for disabled persons AND employing more expert consultants in the shortage areas of neurology, rheumatology and also the Mental Health Services, which of cours is way off the richter scale as regard to priority.

No one small drop in the ocean does not make an ocean of any kind whatsoever.

Please see the whole picture, there is no point in congratulating over a pee when we need rivers and torrents.

broken

"Please God, help the ignorant!"

# 12

Posted: 21/09/2009 20:14

That's a lot of anger to be directing at a faceless poster, Brandy. Why so angry? It's not good for your health. Adopt a more philosophical approach, is my advice. Or else use your energies somewhere useful, as ranting at me won't get you anywhere. Be positive, look at what Mary Harney has done rather than what she hasn't done. Rome wasn't built in a day...

# 11

Posted: 21/09/2009 20:09

I must say I resent the intimation that any admirer of Minister Harney must somehow be part of the gravy train, attending €1,800 dinners etc etc. This is absolute nonsense. I have never donated a penny to any politician or political party, nor have I asked anything of any politician or political party.

I stand over my earlier comment that, in the interest of fairness and balance, we should acknowledge Minister Harney's positive contribution at least in the particular area of nursing home regulation and funding (assuming Fair Deal will in fact be introduced in the next couple of weeks as promised).

Yes, it was very slow in coming, No it's not ideal, and Yes, families will still have to contribute something to the cost of care. However, as listeners to Joe Duffy heard a couple of weeks back, this will go a long way to easing the severe difficulties  families face currently. Contributors to that phone-in were overwhelmingly positive about Fair Deal.

I acknowledge she will have a less positive legacy in other areas but I do believe Mary Harney is a person of integrity, who is doing her damndest.

a less than As a person who has never made a political contribution in my life, and

# 10

Posted: 19/09/2009 19:02

JoanM,

You used most of your last post 'proving' why Harney is a useless dead loss....and now I, and I'm sure the rest of us, are wondering why you are in support of her !

Could you be like the many thousands in the past who supported 'friendly' Bertie....or indeed Mr. 'HEE-HAW' who...cute 'hoor' that he was...'gave' 'free' tv-licences...free travel...to all the easilly influenced electorate...so they'd keep him and his ilk on the 'gravy-train'....at no expense to himself of course!!??

It may have escaped your notice...but Mary Harney 'appeared on 'Liveline' last week...for a 'good'...free....few minutes...'promoting' donor cards. All well and good for her we might say....but ask yourself why she and all in the HSE refuse to go on Newstalk to ANSWER a few questions regarding life and death issues that have been in existence since she and Drumm have been in control !! Ask yourself why is it just now she plonks herself on radio to 'promote' this....when the issue has been screaming out for donkeys year's ??

That she was allowed such 'free rein'....so that the political sheep would/might assume what a wonderful caring person she is....actually sickens my stomach. To think that people swallow this political deception gives me absolutely no hope for the future of my children in this kip of a country. I sincerely hope my kids succeed abroad....because the proliferation of idiot voters in this place is a sure-fire way of ensuring no change for the betterment of the poorer...and a shoe-in for the crafty-hoor politicians who don't give a damn about you or yours either!!

Haven't you been listening or reading about their wealthy friends....'stealing' from the public yet again?? Haven't you read about the 'cycle lanes (Greens want) versus the young girls cancer vaccines (Harney says we cant afford)...even though the price is €10 million for either ??

If you're still a supporter after this JoanM....maybe you'd be able to answer some of the above. Thanks.

# 9

Posted: 17/09/2009 00:43

Trying to get services for myself, a severely ill and disabled person, i once rang the Minister's office to try and get some meaning to why i was failing to get services i so badly needed.  I was in considerable distress and at the end of my tether.

I asked the pertinent question "what is Ms. Harney's job description?"

The person i spoke to in her office could not answer me.  according to her, she was not in charge of the HSE, in fact, it was hard to get the poor woman to admit that Ms. Harney was in charge of anything!  I am unsure if she knew what she was in charge of.

My view of Ms. Harney is as bad as Brendan Drum.

I never did approve of co-location of hospitals, a divided health service, reflecting that of america.  And so much power for the Irish consultants and so much money as pay packets.

When i have not received the following in the past five years since ending in a wheelchair:  neurology, physiotherapy, gastrotenterology, rheumatology, adaptive aids to help me eat, adaptive aids to move and get out of bed,  special shoes to help me walk. under my medical card and limited medication allowance for some of my conditions, eg crohns, celiac and neuro symptoms

I have six hours PA a week and  no family support.  

My neurology difficulties have not been addressed.  My pain control regime is minimal.  No physio to keep muscles free of pain, or some pain at any rate.

Due to brain damage at birth i have not had a great working life and have a medical card.

My gastroenterologist, rheumatologist, physio, adaptive aids, some medications have all been paid for privately.

Most of my conditions diagnosed were diagnosed in London UK due to failure of irish doctors to address my issues.

I am now waiting for a neuro appointment which is due in April next year!!!

I can make a private appointment and see one the following day.

No, we have a lousy health service and between ms. harney and drummy, they beat to the same tune and i say the same thing, god, dont be sick in holy ireland.

You can really only say how bad it is, when you are very, very sick!

"Please God, help the ignorant!"

# 8

Posted: 14/09/2009 18:14

I'm one of the 3 'admirers' and I certainly wasn't at the €1800 dinner. (I'd love to know who was.) I have never got anything free from this or any government, including nappies for my elderly mother, or nursing home financial support for her, and I watched as she fell apart with old age and her children fell out with each other as a result of bearing the brunt of exorbitant nursing home costs. At least, thanks to Mary Harney, my children won't suffer the guilt-making, family-breaking fate of passing the hat around to get their parents cared for.

# 7

Posted: 13/09/2009 17:53

I can't believe that of the four posters todate three are paid-up members of the Mary Harney admiration society. I would have thought that anyone who has seen the fiasco that is the Irish health service couldn't possible praise her. Her so-called tenacity is just plain arrogance. She asked for the Dept of Health because in her arrogance she felt she could 'sort it out'. She was like a bull in a china shop. She calls sick people, 'consumers' and one of her first public utterances was to tell the 'consumers' to shop around for doctors and medical consultants. What planet is she living on? The main problem with Mary Harney as a minister for health (apart from the PD ideology of; if you pay for healthcare you should get the best and if you don't pay you should get the worst) is her lack of empathy with sick people. No doubt Brian Cowen will try to pretend at the next election that the chaos of the health service is the PD's fault. Won't wash Brian, you appointed her.

By the way, who were the 'guests' entertained by Mary Harney at an upmarket restaurant before last Christmas for €1800? The journalist who got the information under Freedom of Information was not given the guest list. This amount of money would buy a lot of nappies for incontinent elderly people who have to buy their own, at present. Maybe some of the three posters on this thread were there.

# 6

Posted: 11/09/2009 20:39

Harney is a disgrace. Reforms...work in progress....future progress ??? All absolutely pointless when people (many children included) have died during her tenure...which has presided over such wealth for many years...and all throughout...she...and many of the wealthy (with no delay worries) could afford to protect themselves and their own families. To those who defend her and her ilk I say...you obviously have not had someone close to you die, before their time, due to poverty or lack of private health-care/ early prevention strategies!!

We now live in a 2 tier society...ADMIT IT! If you are wealthy...you live...if you're poor you don't matter...and you die!!..SIMPLE AS!! If France can provide excellent health-care to ALL...why won't Ireland?? Because greedy/dishonest b******s have vested interests and have so much money to make from the BUSINESS that is private health-care!

# 5

Posted: 11/09/2009 19:41

Mary Harney was the most dangerous Minister we have had in thirty years. She has no idea of what general practice does, mistrusts it, and feels it is a waste of money. Colocated hospitals will bring an American health care system to Ireland where everything will be availlable to those who can pay, and waiting lists will grow longer for those who can not. General practice just needs to take one hour off on a Monday morning and she will see that because it has worked so very well, because it is all encompassing and omnipresent, that it is the bedrock of our health system. The health system would grind to a halt that Monday.

The Competition Act, set up and encouraged by her colleagues, is designed to break general practice. There is more to life in Ireland than Dublin, where an A+E is within 20 minutes. If she destroys rural general practice, as she seems to want to do, then good luck to the pharmacists and administrators who she is currently looking to, to provide the H1N1 vaccine!!

# 4

Posted: 11/09/2009 13:29

From somebody working in the nursing home sector, I have nothing but admiration for Mary Harney's Fair Deal reform programme which when finally implemented in a matter of weeks will make a tremendous difference for families funding nursing home care. She has more balls than any of her male predecessors!

# 3

Posted: 11/09/2009 13:06

I would accept the Editor's assessment as a very fair and balanced review of Mary Harneys tenure, She has had the resources but cumulativel so did her predecesors of past years most shamefully perhaps Michael Martin. Her accolade has to be her tenacity and enthusiasm in attempting to make  a difference. The sacandals on her watch were waiting to happen and it is perhaps because of a more expectant and combined vigilant public together with increased openess to addressing errors tht we even know about them.

The colocation exercis will remain a blot on her record because she has never effectively addressed the argument that thi swa sin fact  an ideological departure for her and one which was part of the wider " tax break for fat cats" policy of government sover the past 12 years  no so discredited.

The reforms will thake more than 5 years and a key to that will be introduction of flexible work practices for Health service workers of all stripes who have yet to accept public health services are there to serve not to be serviced.

# 2

Posted: 11/09/2009 12:45

I have always admired Mary Harney as a politician and I still admire her and consider that she was probably the only Irish politician we have who could have tackled the HSE and made it to this stage. It is still WORK-IN-PROGRESS without a doubt and if this is the case after 5 years of Mary Harney's dedicated and honest efforts, God help us if any one else had been there. (Remember Micheal Martin, Michael Noonan.. both good men but utter failures in Health). In my opinion, her best achievement has been tackling the Consultants who have ripped us all off with years, charging exhorbitant rates for a few rushed minutes of their 'precious' time. They have always reminded me of politicians.. that is, once they entered the 'Club' (e.g. Consultancy/Dail Eireann) then corruption and greed took over.Any chance she could take on the Banks?

# 1

Posted: 09/09/2009 23:07

I think Niall is very kind to Mary Harney. Considering the amount of money she had at her disposal these have been five wasted years. In fact with the privatisation of chunks of the health service it is a more unfair system now than when she took over. If in the area of hospital co-location she went for stepdown facilities beside each major hospital she could have freed up thousands of acute beds. The list of missed opportunities is endless.

She was in my opinion the worst Minister for Health in living memory beause she had the funds to make improvements which her predessors only dreamed of.