# 48

Posted: 24/08/2009 13:37

Here here Jenjo.

I am genuinely terrified at the thought of getting sick in this country. And that's despite the factthat

1. my salary has taken a hit from all angles,

2. my childrens allowance has been cut,

3. I'll be losing my mortgage interest relief,

3. I pay private health insurance

4. I take pretty good care of myself to ensure to try and prevent my being a burden to the health system

The Government really are rolling out the red carpet for the black market - and bring it on I say!

# 47

Posted: 23/08/2009 19:21

jenjo,

I'll make this brief....I, for one, agree with you 100%.....mind you....I said this already....but for some reason it wasn't posted....go figure?!!

# 46

Posted: 22/08/2009 21:13

jenjo,

Agree with you 100%. Really think more people would agree with you....thing is...the govt are cute b*****ds....also they spend our money on spin doctors....because they haven't the brains to interact with the public themselves. Fair play to ya!

# 45

Posted: 18/08/2009 09:48

hi,

A bit of advice to everybody- do not trust the media in what claims they are making against pharmacists- -one particular article made an absolute shambles out of the remuneration the pharmacists are getting from scripts.I have seen the true breakdown of payments they receive on scripts fro private, medical card and DP scheme-   yes ok, Pharmacists need to take a cut like the rest of society(Bar the govt and bankers) which might I add they are prepared to take, but to expect them to take a 30% reduction is crazy.Would anyone else be prepared to take this- I think not!!Jobs will be lost in this industry(as with all others), and lets face it the smaller pharmacies will be forced to cut all staff and inevitably shut down should they be forced to take a 30% cut. how can any business operate when it is trying to balance out losses made in one area with NOT massive profits made in another.The situation will only worsen with Miss Mary Harney forcing her misguided decisions on our health service(whats left of it). Where was she when the heat was on(nowhere to be found, leaving others to take the backlash of the catastrophy she has created). I do feel sorry for patients with medicinal needs but I cannot condone the huge cuts that the minister expects the pharmacists to accept.They provide an excellent service to the public and are now being made scapegoats for the inadequacies which have been downsized for years within the HSE. Sorry but as a member of the general public I am not with the public on this one!!and  whats more, the HSE and minister have a great habit of closing down other vital medical services(eg withdrawal of Sligo generals cancer units) while the pharmacy dispute is going on hoping this will go unnoticed along with other service withdrawals which in the majority of cases do go unseen. Well done minister and HSE- - JOB WELL DONE!!!!!

# 44

Posted: 17/08/2009 09:34

Hi Ben, maybe I didn't explain properly, my colleagues are in the situation where the legally available medicines were legally perscribed by a registered doctor here (not ordered online or anything) and the perscription was filled by their legitimate pharmacist in Spain (another EU country) and sent over. In essence no different to getting them from a pharmacy in the North surely - and this is something that half of Dublin seems to be doing. The perscriptions they need would not qualify them for the long term illness scheme here anyway. You are right about the cost of various drugs here of course.

I don't think your robots in Holland can provide advice nearly as well as they would dispense medicines tho'.

                                                                                                  Tish.

# 43

Posted: 14/08/2009 16:33

Buzz, you're right! I had just come off phone to a girl from medical card section in the Health Board..what she said had really annoyed me, wasn't trying to justify income so much as point out that the State subsidises an awful lot more in other contracts..oh and it appears medicines only account for 2% of the healthcare budget.

Viking, you should always ask for a generic style prescription then ask Pharmacist for the best value version of the drug, I try to buy one generic brand, get an extra bonus then nett the price down a bit for fairness. I normally set my price at the lowest generic. surprisingly enough Ventolin inhalers are 1/3 of their US price here in Ireland, but most others..crazy! As for the Spanish Girls getting stuff posted, still on dodgy (if not silly nanny-state style) legal ground if they are seized. Many of my customers have had meds seized, mainly if posted from US.We should look at price differences of popular drugs like anti depressants, statins (chloesterol) and ones you use every day. Remember too though..Spain has no free system e.g. for diabetics as we do, and for other selected long-term illnesses. The Generic Losec, (Omeprazole) is the biggest price shock I have seen, as is aspirin75, though that one is 'cos of regulations.. its free sale in UK, prescription only here

One thing we have all forgotten too, is we now know the minister sees Pharmacy as a way of delivering drugs, thats all...I have seen robots in Holland (nearly bought one!) that can do it just as good...except in an earthquake or power cut ;-) oh and thanks tish!

# 42

Posted: 14/08/2009 14:59

I am glad this dispute is over and that the pharmacists have seen sense.

# 41

Posted: 13/08/2009 22:15

Thank you all,

At last...it seems there are many posters who realise we don't live in a black and white world! 

Could it be that the all the pharms are not the complete devils the Minister et al would wish us to believe? 

Could it be we will not 'automatically' believe the Health guru's spin?

Could it be we are ...finally...beginning to ask (the right) questions?

Here's hoping!! Thanks to all you thinkers out there!

# 40

Posted: 13/08/2009 16:34

I would like to thank Ben Quinn, Keystone and others for introducing such fantastic clarity to this discussion while I've been following it. Now why was such honesty and openness when it comes that information not put into the public domain by pharmacists long long before now. We need to know who is price-fixing and whom it is benefiting.

On your point about Spain tho' Ben., beleive it or not, with the advent of cheap flights twice a year, it is practical to fly over, have long weekend or holiday, get your medication at a fraction of the cost and fly back - no laws broken.

On the subject of getting medicines by mail into Ireland , as you're probably aware this is a very common practice. We have 4 Spanish girls in our office and 3 of them fax their routine perscription to their pharmacy in spain and have them posted over here and there is never a problem. 

Your point about 'Making up" a hand-made medicine is very interesting. I didn't realise that compounding pharmacists, which certainly existed to great effect in my childhood (along time ago!) we no long in existence. 

                                                                                                 Tish

# 39

Posted: 13/08/2009 16:09

Ben, there's nothing impressive about my change of sentiment - I, like the vast majority of the population, based my argument on what I suppose you could call "pub talk".

It's vital that forums like these are made public so that people can really see (if they haven't already) the blatant and terrifying ignorance and recklesness of the people that are "running" OUR country.

Again, like alot of people (I suspect) I hardly knew the price of a pint of milk before we were plunged into the current situation. I have two babies in nappies who have put serious manners on me with regard to my spending so now I'm much more aware of what everything costs - costs me at least.

Again I would ask, should we be specifically asking for generic brand drugs if / when we are being prescribed them or does that make a difference?

# 38

Posted: 13/08/2009 14:22

The wholesale price IS the price from the wholesaler to the pharmacist, not the price which the wholesaler buys at. Also prices are not "maximum" they are absolute - there is no discretion of the part of the pharmacy whatsoever.

Because of competition laws it is illegal for the government, who is the "customer" in the various drug purchase schemes, to negotiate with any group representing the pharmacists and they won't negotiate with individual pharmacies or pharmacy groups. The prices I refer to as being fixed aren't negotiated, they are dicatated just as the government is dictating the current changes to the terms of the contract. There are rebates available to pharmacists from the wholesalers, but these depend on a wide variety of factors and the rate of rebate isn't guaranteed for any pharmacy. Needless to say larger pharmacy groups get bigger rebates than individual community pharmacies.

To be honest with you, while I have a general understanding of how the system is implemented, I don't have details of how these prices, etc. are arrived at. Maybe someone else can shed some light on this particularly since it is some years since I worked in this area.

# 37

Posted: 13/08/2009 10:40

Re post 32 Ben thank you for your honesty. I am curious about one thing though. I simply asked you to state what your take home salary was before the cuts. I never asked you to justify it, yet you went into a big explanation about your working "grind" and working Saturdays etc. Why? I did not ask you to justify your salary so who are you justifying it to.....?

# 36

Posted: 12/08/2009 21:59

Dear Rph1, Keystone, scapegoat, viking and others interested: I can supply a list of the approximate charges for any drug you name, as I'm a practising Pharmacist, unfortunately another ridiculous beurocratic layer was added by the geniuses last month, in that the prescription fee being paid by HSE goes DOWN after we have dispensed approx. 400 items per month! Is it possible (or sensible) to give out emails here? I'll give a "proxy" one first, and if we build up a bit of trust will supply my work email..You are right, transport etc do not come into the pricing; it is purely political; as for all the bull about how cheap meds are in Spain..unless you live there its not practical! over 20% of Spanish meds are counterfeit too! Rph1 did you know patients cannot even get medicines by mail into Ireland as THAT's illegal too! Free market my backside!

I can "make up" a hand-made paediatric medicine for 12.50 but HSE refuse to pay me, yet they are happy to pay an imported manufactured version for 260Euro! Its commonly used in kidney infections; many medicines made in Ireland are being sold at 1/4 to 1/10 their Irish price into other EU states. It seems to be all about protecting that precious GDP "portal" by keeping multi-nationals on board. My seconary email is bqpharm@yahoo.co.uk Look forward to the debates!

Ben

# 35

Posted: 12/08/2009 17:54

So I may be over simplifying this but if the IPHA and HSE have negotiated a maximum price per drug for the wholesalers to buy at and HSE has put flat pricing in place to reimburse the retail pharmacist, is the problem really with what the wholesalers are charging the retailers?

As many have echoed, care to the patient is the ultimate priority but pharmacist have to be able to make a living and provide services to the community without going bankrupt. I read recently that there was talk of increasing the dispensing fee to 5 Euro from 3.75. Does this help offset the reduction in reimbursement?

In the states, pharmacies negotiate a rate with their wholesaler and a separate rate with the payer (usually a helath plan or PBM). The idea is obviously to pay less than you get paid but on average for brand drug the difference is less than 5% and the dispensing fees are only $2 to $3.

The margin is all made on the generic drugs where the differential is 15% or more.

Again I am just trying to wrap my head around the model in place here. I am very interested in the various ways pharmacy is practised. With the US in the midst of a healthcare crisis and talk of more government subsidized programs on the horizon, it is beneficial to see what is or is not working elsewhere.

# 34

Posted: 12/08/2009 16:59

I would imagine the best way to get a listing of "retail" prices for drugs is to get your hands on an up to date copy of MIMS - it has details of all prescription drugs available in Ireland and their prices.

It is some years since I worked in the pharmaceutical distribution sector (in a few different companies), but at the time the retail price and the wholesale price were fixed.  Pharmacies could negotiate a "rebate" based on their purchases, and this varied considerably between pharmacies.  Obviously this meant that some pharmacies and particularly the larger chains were able to negotiate a better "rebate".

Wholesalers are independent, although I get the impression there are considerably less of them than there used to be!  At the time I was in the industry, most pharmaceuticals were sold into wholesalers through an Agent appointed by the manufacturer, but I honestly don't know if different wholesalers bought from the Agents at different prices.  At the time, most of the agencies were divisions of the wholesalers themselves.

Perhaps somebody else out there has more recent experience and can let us know if this is still the case?

# 33

Posted: 12/08/2009 16:30

"Pharmacists do not have the right to set their own prices on drugs."

Some question related to this:

•          Does this then protect the small Chemists in Rural areas? I would imagine this prevents the larger chains pricing smaller shops out of business. Granted the chains/larger Rx's would be able to command greater margins, assuming discounts/rebates from bulk buying.

•          Or does the government regulate a fixed cost price for wholesalers also?

•          Can the larger/chains buy at a lower unit cost than the small/rural Rx?

•          How do rebates work in Ireland?

All these questions are relevant to the public interested in knowing why their prescription costs so much a mile down the road from where is manufactured as opposed to a thousand miles away in Europe. In Commerce class in secondary school, we were told that products cost more in Ireland because, among other factors, we had a high cost associated with transporting products to Ireland. This cannot be a factor for the multitude of medications made in Ireland, so what is?

# 32

Posted: 12/08/2009 16:25

Buzz..85k, taking home approx 4.5k per month, have cut that by 15% and totally cut out pension to reduce amount of pay-cuts I have to give my staff.(managed to NOT lay off those I had planned to also)..Viking..I am impressed by your change of sentiment as you obviously read a lot of the posts, keystone, think you might find me easily as my nickname is my real name and I'm a former IPU president... ! Remember too guys that most small Pharmacists work almost every saturday, and well beyond the 9-5 daily grind, we have no entitlement to dole, no state pension and no subsidies to health insurance, or security or staffing, like many others get in Healthcare..I make a damn good living and work hard for it. grateful for every Customer as much as for every euro.

Oh and Buzz..my company register is public

# 31

Posted: 12/08/2009 16:15

The Government price setting is as I suspected from other posts. Then surely it should be easy to obtain the retail price list for all [or even the top ten used] medications in Ireland. However, I cannot find it or something similar to compare to UK and EU. Is this something that is [or can be made] available on http://www.irishhealth.com?

But to make this a fair analysis, is there a way to tabulate what the "Mom & Pop"/small rural chemist is paying for the meds versus a chain/large shop?

In US to go back to my Lipitor example, the Average Wholesale Price for the prescription [10 mg (30 tablets)] is $100. Retail Pharmacy is paid AWP - 15% = $85 from PBM. If Retail Pharmacy bought the drugs for an average of AWP - 22% = $78, then they are making $7 on this script along with their dispensing fee.

I would like to see this breakdown for Irish Chemists, assuming there is a constant AWP-type price across EU and that the Retail price is fixed.

Thanks You.

# 30

Posted: 12/08/2009 16:10

Scapegoat, I am a pharmacist in the US and am curious about your statement.  You say pharmacists can not set their own pricing and the govenment dictitates the price.  Does the government also dictate the wholesale price and take that one step further is there regulation on what the wholesaler charges the pharmacist?

In the aticle http://www.indi.ie/docs/878_economies_drug_usage_(2).pdf it appears that wholesale prices in Ireland are fixed based on pricing of other EU nations.  The question then becomes, if you can not compete based on retail pricing is the idea to negotiate better pricing from the wholesaler.

Does Ireland have independant wholesalers or does the government act as the wholesaler and also the third party payer? 

I am tryng to put this into perspective related to the American wholesale/retail arrangements I am familiar with.  I look forward to additional information.

# 29

Posted: 12/08/2009 14:00

Keystone, the reason you "do not see the drug price comparison between chemists" is because there isn't one. Price is fixed and dicatated by the government. Pharmacists do not have the right to set their own prices on drugs.

# 28

Posted: 12/08/2009 09:52

Hands up, I didn't realise the level of restrictions and anti-competitive procedures you (the pharmacies) were up against.

If we go to a doctor and are prescribed a drug, should we be asking them to prescribe a generic brand?

I have been to a pharmacy locally to get an antibiotic for my daughter (2.5 years) and they offered me a generic brand as they said that apart from the price it was a bit more palatable than the brand prescribed.

I appreciated their honesty and helpfulness and have always gone back. However it appears that by offering their customer a great service they were breaking the law!

# 27

Posted: 12/08/2009 09:25

A loss of €200,000? What, may I ask (since your books are open for viewing) was the pre-cut annual salary?

# 26

Posted: 11/08/2009 19:59

Ben,

The information you may be able to provide can be very helpful to this debate, I think the HSE/IPU needs to post this information on their respective sites to help us all understand. I do not know which site could best compare, but I have found that this site has been one of the most objective I have seen on this topic. I know the language in this particular editorial is quite strong and your initial reaction can be expected and understood. But I do think this is the type of information we all need to do our homework and research.

If the Pharma/Wholesale prices are out there I have not found them, similarly I do not see the drug price comparison between chemists, which by what I read here should not be different due to government price setting.

I would like Mr. Hunter and his staff of commentators to provide a list of the top ten drugs with the Manuf. price per unit and each additional layer, including tax and how they compare to UK, or

Pfizer's Lipitor is made in Ireland and was previously considered the world's biggest-selling drug. In the US a 30 tablets of the 10MG retail prices appear to be:

Brand Lipitor - 10 mg (30 tablets) US $45.00 Euro € 37.50

Generic Atorlip - 10mg (30 Tablets) US $20.00 Euro € 16.67

http://www.inhousepharmacy-europe.com/generics/atorlip.html

Is there somewhere we can get this information published, or do all sides of the debate, other than patients, have something to hide? I cannot believe that all drugs are expected to be sold to the HSE scheme patients at a loss to the pharmacies. If the manufacturer’s prices are greatly inflated in Ireland versus UK/Spain, then the pharmacists have a strong case. Without actual numbers no-one can prove that case.

Meanwhile, it will be the lawyers, as usual, that will end up profiting from this dispute as they turn their victims' grief and suffering into liable cases against both the IPU and the HSE. They may even go after Pharma. Stop it now before one person dies due to lack of proper care. Someone show us the numbers!!

# 25

Posted: 11/08/2009 17:50

3 good points, 3 bad points:

The good :1. "Patient safety must be everyone's concern".

2."Interpretation of competition law has prevented mediation, a legal anomaly that suits the Government at this point"

3. "The tax-payer deserves better value in what the Government pays for medicines " (remember they disallow us Pharmacists from dispensing cheaper alternatives!)

3 bad: 1. "The high costs of buying basic drugs and medicines"..again, no reference to the cost prices to Pharmacists which are even more extortionate than those being charged to the public" (the state doesn't seem to care what price something is if its taxpayers money!)

2."The state deserves better value..and most people would support Govt. stance on this"..what!!!!, a failed party's policy forced on a democracy?? the GOVERNMENT FIXED THE DRUG PRICES BEING CHARGED! WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO BUY COMPETITIVELY IN THE E.U.! Cost Prices are up to 10 times higher for some drugs in Ireland and the Govt. refuses the use of cheaper alternatives

3."the accuracy of any real income hit is open to debate" Mine is over 200,000 Euro, this year alone; with no change in costs..feel free to debate and to examine my accounts some time, this has severely damaged my 10-year plans, and if I was a young, new owner would bankrupt me.I am a sole trader..could you take that hit?

What really aggrieves me is the number of suggestions we have made to save money, like allowing cheaper drugs to be used, lowering UK/Irl trade restrictions, using Pharmacies for more clinical tests like INR, asthma, cholesterol, blood-tests, even when we suggested Pharmacy prescribing for minor illnesses (like head-lice, worms, simple fungal infections) the minister ignored us, then introduced nurse prescribing the same month! It was a welcome introduction but how could she not see that Pharmacists could also reduce waiting times by helping out in minor illness?

Denying people medicines is just wrong. The Minister took advantage of those of us who feel like this and made fools of us; no wonder we are angry! I could not though, deny anyone their medicines..i am first and foremost healthcare, and I mean CARE; business always will come second.

# 24

Posted: 11/08/2009 10:40

I am a Pharmacist who did not close.Your lack of knowledge is incredible, especially the newsagent who takes 20% on everything. Pharmacists take a lot less on average, just bad reporting and ill-informed comment make you believe otherwise. You get paid up front, we get paid at least a month, often two later. Drugs prices are set by THE GOVERNMENT, not by Pharmacists; we have NO RIGHT TO NEGOTIATE, yet the Government can change terms of contracts at will, how is it drugs made in ireland are costing more 10 TIMES MORE than they do in Northern ireland...BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT SET THE PRICE! Thats why you are being ripped off. If Mr Hunter (author) had done some homework first we might see the real political issue..Government price-fixing in a so called EU! Why vote yes for a Union that allows this sort of rubbish to go on? Aspirin 75mg in Ireland 5-7 Euro, in N Ireland: 70p !!!! DO YOUR RESEARCH MR HUNTER!

# 23

Posted: 11/08/2009 09:44

Viking,  You said that "although the pharmacies may be taking a cut, at least their income is still guaranteed".  If a pharmacy is now required to sell a product at a lower price that it costs them to buy it (which is now the case) the only thing they are "guaranteed" is losing money!

In case some of you hadn't figured it out yet the margin that pharmacies receive for prescription medicines is fixed.  They cannot chose what price to buy a product at and the cannot change their selling price - the price is dictated to them.  They are now being told that they must sell a product at a lower price than they have paid for it and then go back and argue with the pharmaceutical distributors and manufacturers for a "rebate" or volume discount.  This isn't guaranteed income as they are then operating at the whim of those selling them the product as to whether they will get enough "discount" to cover their costs.

I am absolutely sick of hearing people say that they are creaming it because pharmaceuticals cost more here than in other parts of the world.  The pharmacists are not buying the product at the same price as a pharmacy in Spain and they are not pocketing the difference.  I'm not saying that somebody isn't making a hell of a lot of money here, but it isnt your local pharmacy!

# 22

Posted: 10/08/2009 16:55

If the pharmacists do not give out the much needed drugs it could be a case of slow murder. How many people are taking drugs to help prolong life as well as to ease pain etc. We all have to take a cut in our pay. So why not the pharmicist. Let those who are unwilling go out of business. That is their problem. Ours, who are unwell, is to get the required medication from the pharmacist who will give it to us and give him/her our loyalty from now on.

# 21

Posted: 10/08/2009 13:42

I am also a professional and studied for six years to get my qualifications. I work in a small accountancy practice and every day of the week we have another personal calling to say they can't pay the bill or can only pay part of it. Because they don't pay, we have had to cut salaries, like a vast number of businesses.

The next step is redundancies, as we never know if enough money will come in by the end of the month to cover at the very least the salaries.

The pharmacies may be taking a cut, but at least their income is still guaranteed.

Having said that, there are other areas of the health sector that should also be taking a hit - I know a particular physiotherapist in a General hospital who needs another member of staff on her team. She had to go through 2 layers of bureaucracy (approx. 20 people) in order to be told it wasn't in the budget at this time!

# 20

Posted: 10/08/2009 13:00

Is Mary Harney a member of any political party? I understood the PDs were no longer a party. Does anyone know what party she belongs to. Surely she shouldn't have a portfolio if she is not a member of a political party.

I have no respect for the pharmacists who have closed their doors. Have they any idea how scared elderly people are. Shame on them. The ordinary person who is finding it tough to make ends meet are at the mercy of the greedy banks, politicians and professionals.

I know nothing about a recession as I am a 66 yr old and have been struggling all my life to make ends meet.

Spare me a thought you greedy lot.

# 19

Posted: 10/08/2009 12:46

The fact remains that the patient in Ireland has been paying way way over the odds for medication - both perscription and non-perscription comparative to other EU countries. The greed had to stop sooner or later.

# 18

Posted: 09/08/2009 20:47

A contract should not be altered unilaterally. Ms Harney has done just this. Both sides of a contract ought to settle a dispute through negotiation. I despair at the mindset of those who are governing us. Is it too much to expect from those elected to government some evidence of rational thinking, some degree of intelligence and some indication that they realise and accept that they are the servants of the public and not members of an exclusive circle existing solely for their personal aggrandizement. I will try to hope.

# 17

Posted: 08/08/2009 19:12

pharnacists need to take the bull by the horns now and get back to business as alot of elderly people are in dire straits with this dispute chemist shops have gotten bigger and more of them have sprung up all over the country as a result of all the money they have made in past in these current economic times we all have to take cut backs and get on with it

# 16

Posted: 08/08/2009 18:41

Mary Harney and the IPA- who istougher?? who will come out the winner??

The only losers in this dispute are the patient - they will still continue to pay over the top for their medication whoever is deemed the winner at the end of this dispute.

It is time for patients to exercise their rights.  When the IPA & Mary Harney are back in bed together, patients should take a close look at who provided them with services during the dispute and continue to support these pharmacies who thought of their patients and continued to provide them with a service.

Perhaps we should all think of supporting Mary Harney who has tried over the years ro change our Health Service, with little support from either her own party of the opposition parties.  She may not be everybodies cup of tea but she sure takes on the hard issues.

# 15

Posted: 08/08/2009 18:22

Dear Editor,

You say...."....health professionals in Ireland are probably overpaid...." !

I don't know how many times to repeat this.....but I will say, yet again....the cost of living in this country is punitive....and totally out of kilter with comparitive countries....so there will always be a surge towards 'keeping up with the joneses'!

From the so-called 'lower-classes'.....to the self-styled 'upper-classes'....there will always be a move 'upwards'!  The reason is very simple...human greed....nothing else....and the sooner we realise it the better!

I've said before that politics cannot be dissociated from anything in public life. ....including Health.  The above point should be amply and readily accepted by the majority of the public....if it is'nt already!

Suppose the following:

1.  I am a pharmacist.  I've spent many years studying.  I decide to open a 'chemist/shop' in x-town.

2.  The rent is 'criminally' high....thanks to the connection between successive govts and landlords/developers!!  (eg:  examine 500k pa on Grafton St.)

3.  Despite the high rent....the 'Celtic tiger' is roaring.....and I'm still able to achieve an attractive income....no problem.

4.  Suddenly....very suddenly....the 'tiger' dies!  However....though my income dives to unfathomable depths.....my landlord still (LEGALLY) demands the same rent!!

The above is the story for many, many thousands in this country....not just Chemists....why is there such a reluctance (if not a fear) to state what is blindingly obvious to any logical human;  The landlord class (including the bailed-out banks) are getting away with murder....have done for decades!  Not to mention them in the current downturn is a very poltically motivated move which begs the question...are they connected?  So, if that's the case...the logical conclusion can only be that politicians and their 'buddies' are screwing the public yet again.....surprise,surprise !!     

N.B.  The 'executives' in the Health-Service, via (and along with) the govt. have given themselves cart-blanche to 'pay themselves' a wage that is far beyond the realms of avarice.

Should we be surprised that highly educated, life-long health-professionals (better educated than many in power)......take umbrage at the greed and political machinations of those, who...for a very few years....can 'lord it' for the rest of their lives!  (remember the joneses).    

And yes Sir....patient safety should be every one's concern....but, if like the Min for Health and the rest of the 'jokers'.....you're 'living' on circa €4000 per week....would you really expect them to care ???

# 14

Posted: 08/08/2009 17:16

The Pharmacists have made their money over the past years and their mark up was pure greed and selfish. Many patients like myself have lost respect for them and I will never again give then the respect I previously did.My friends in the area where I live say the same. I have gone for my Heart Medication on 3 occasions and It is not in stock, so I will visit my Dr on Monday - this stress is keeping me awake at night. I am aged 76 and too old for this kind of worry. I hope and pray that a solution will be found very soon.

# 13

Posted: 08/08/2009 15:23

Stupid and childish behaviour like this deserves a SLAP on the wrist for both parties. If the row continues any longer and people are forced to use another chemist, they should tell their usual one that they will stay with whoever looks after them during the silly and selfish dispute. We have been overcharged far too long. STRIKE BACK NOW!!!

# 12

Posted: 08/08/2009 12:50

The level of disinformation surounding this astounds me. Pharmacists cannot "charge whatever mark up they like". The mark up is on one scheme only and has been cut by a completely inequitable 30%. People in ireland pay more for everything from services to consumables and medicines.

Saying you can get a pack of X drug in Spain for 1/3 the price here is about as useful a comparator as saying you can buy a car in poland for 1/4 the price in Ireland. Is it really necessary to highlight the ridiculousness of these comparisons.

Pharmacists in Ireland cannot legally substitue generic medicines for branded ones on prescriptions because the government here are beholden to the pharma industry given the number of people they employ which, pointedly, is one of the main reasons medicines here are expensive, even generics are more costly than they should be. There is room for manoeuvre on cost savings if a responsible, equitable representative could be found.

# 11

Posted: 08/08/2009 08:46

Your editorial is correct. It is time that everybody involved stopped for breath. Unfortunately it appears that Mary Harney is in one of her Iron Lady (ala Margaret Thatcher moods) and she needs a victory. Her competency as a Minister for Health has been on the floor and if she can win this batlle (with the help of €10 million spindoctors fund) she feels that when Cowen has the guts to sack her (sorry, accept her resignation) she will save something of her reputation.

 Viking, how many times do you have to be told that the Dept of Health sets the price of medicines in agreement with the multinational manufacturers.

# 10

Posted: 07/08/2009 22:12

I was a professional driving tutor for more than 35 years,the last 12 as a self employed tutor (sic). I operated (successfully) on three simple principles.

Do a good job, be reliable, and do not over charge; and it is the latter point that is so prevelant in our society. Chemists are not by any means the only culprits in the horrible society that we live in; that is the cultrure of greed that we Irish have so successfully created .

It has been proved beyond any doubt that in every trade or profession we as a people have been ripped off right left and centre, and who has been leading the charge ?The very people who should know better, they who lead us,who have bled us for years,those at the very top of our society,who, instead of showing us by good example do the very reverse, grab grab grab and so the spiral spreads downwards.Think about it,our man( or woman, if it ever happens) at the top is better payed, by far, than the president of the most powerful nation in the world!!!

I will be 73 this day week;I grew up in a culture that viewed trade unionism as just one step away from communism;never for a moment did I think I would live to see the day when people like the gardai, well paid to protect us,would take industrial action or threaten to, which spread to nurses, payed to care for us and so on across the board, you dear editor, mention PR and justly so, now this is one area that organisations, assocciations, call them what you will, excel in.

The fact is , if they take any action that imperils or neglects the ordinary people, particularly the old (me!) or the weak and sick they disgrace themselves and at this point I offer those who are true professions my apologies.

Back to square one;I have a great belief in the old sayings and  the relevant one in this context ? " The best form of leadership is by example " just study the examples, by those who should know better have shown us, sorry, did I slip in the word "GRAB" somewhere?

# 9

Posted: 07/08/2009 21:20

The blame lies totally with the pharmacies.  They are robbers