# 2456

Posted: 30/07/2009 23:54

Ann, don't get too upset by some posting here. I believe we have a few posting here, like I have found here in the U.S. The ACS, AMA etc. pay Fake Persuaders to push against anyone who are against Smoking Bans. They can get very nasty but never have anything of substance. Even the E-cigarettes are being jumped on because they will cut into profits of the Pharmaceuticals. It's all Political and has never been a Grassroots movement. They recruit people who will follow orders, especially if the pay is good. The links will explain some things. I see no real reason why there should be a difference here and Ireland.

Economic Losses Due To Smoking Bans In California And Other States

http://www.naturalnews.com/026573_medical_research_drugs_cancer.html

Corporations are inventing people to rubbish their opponents on the Internet.

# 2455

Posted: 30/07/2009 15:43

The way ann moans about the pub closures one might think it was a bad thing! Her ilk probably moaned when the opium dens of old closed too.

Those who take every handout from the Government are often the first to deride any law to promote public health.

virgilk, whatch out for the black helicopters!!!

There is no smoke witofire!

# 2454

Posted: 30/07/2009 14:18

In order for someone to be declared non-compis mentis there has to be a definite medical hoistory, clear and irrefutable medical evidence and it has to be agreed by three independant consultant psychiatists and declared by court order. Thge bogeymen feared by the conspiracy theorists don't emerge from the shadows and declare clinically insane as the notion strikes them.

The U.N Agenda 21 the Rio Declaration on Environment and Development, and the Statement of principles for the Sustainable Management of Forests, as adopted by 178 Governments. Where is the problemn with that? In fact, where is even the relevance of that to the swine flu??

I have not problem Ann, with an informative opinion on the swine flu. But the type of witless rants which come from conspiracy theorist websites, is niether informative not sensible.

The degree to which the smoking ban casued particular pubs to close is a matter of opinion.

# 2453

Posted: 30/07/2009 10:39

Things dont change much on this forum, I see the same old hardliners like Witlessfire and Anynomous are still waiting in the wings like some demented bug to attack any sensible or informative debate on the smoking ban. Not alone have they shut their minds to any debate relating to the smoking ban, they now jeer like immature children any person with an informative opinion on the swine flu.

We're now heading into a deep recession where people would take on any type of work and govt trying to create any sort of job, to now find thousands of pubs gone or in the process of closing down, due to a draconian smoking ban in the first place.

A madness left over from the false money of the so called celtic tiger and the worried well society era (you dont see too many Evian water drinkers these days) when the EU fooled us into believing we were world leaders to promote their smoking ban for them.

Its funny how the non world leaders, but  european countries like Spain, Greece and Germany etc still retain an indoor choice venue for smokers and non smokers in their pubs.

There have been no pub closures in these countries for some reason, unlike Ireland and Britain.

I wonder why that is?

I wonder is it because they had the balls to give the finger to the nanny state that has infiltrated our inept govt.

# 2452

Posted: 30/07/2009 04:00

So what happens if you are a child and your parent is judged to be insane. Who does the judging? Look up Agenda 21 of the UN. Like I say, opinions don't mean diddley. If you are to find the truth, don't expect it from any Government. The World Banks are in control and will soon see how we are controlled. They will leave no doubt.Good luck.

# 2451

Posted: 29/07/2009 16:04

"Centre for Research on Globalisation" - ah come on now, I find a good ol' copspiracy theory as entertaining as anyone else, but I don't take medical advice from conspiracy theory websites, which seem to be multiplying almost daily, both in number and hilarity.

You have the right to refuse any medical treatment for yourself at any time in Ireland proivided you are an adult and of sound mind.

# 2450

Posted: 29/07/2009 09:23

It was on yesterday's news that they expect deaths from Swine flu in the coming months.

# 2449

Posted: 29/07/2009 09:16

We should ignore the authorities advice on our health and be advised by ann vigilk and their ilk. Nobody would ever die from SHS or H1N1.What a joke! Ha, ha, ARRRGGGHHH!!!

There is no smoke witofire!

# 2448

Posted: 28/07/2009 22:50

I didn't think I would need to remember where and when I read that but since you are in need of more information, I just sent this and much more to my address book. This may wake some up but some will keep on snoozing.

H1N1 dangers. What you need to know. This will make smoking Bans look like the waste of time they are.

This is the first article on this web page. It is only one of many that will point out the dangers we face.

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=newsHighlights&newsId=46

Martial Law and the Militarization of Public Health: The Worldwide H1N1 Flu Vaccination Program

by Michel Chossudovsky

PLEASE FORWARD- SPREAD THE WORD - WIDELY

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14475

WHO moves forward in secrecy to accomplish forced vaccination and population agenda

Global Research, July 21, 2009

birdflu666.wordpress.com

The WHO has refused to release the Minutes of a key meeting of an advisory vaccine group – packed with executives from Baxter, Novartis and Sanofi – that recommended compulsory vaccinations in the USA, Europe and other countries against the artificial H1N1 “swine flu” virus this autumn.

# 2447

Posted: 28/07/2009 14:02

That sounds very spurious to me, Where have the government stated that the H1N1 vaccine will kill many people??

# 2446

Posted: 28/07/2009 02:00

John still has the best post. I can also see that more information will change nothing. People will never admit they are being controlled beyond any reasonable limit.

Not one person has been proven to have died due to SHS. No study that follows true scientific practices has proved a link to any one cause of cancer.

It is believed that Radiation may be the cause, more than any other substance but that is only a belief.

As far as believing the CDC. I would not trust any organization that would ship out over 5,000 vials of deadly virus by so-called accident and the only reason it was not used on people was because one woman caught the shipment by wondering why it was getting special handling that was uncalled for in a vaccine.

Even the head of vaccines, at that time, said no one in his family would ever get vaccinated. If he didn't trust them, them why should we?

I do have an OPINION and it is, I would not trust any of our Government Agencies on any Health Care Issue. They have already stated that the H1N1 Vaccine will kill many. Not may but will. And the want to make it mandatory to have that Vaccine. We do have the option to opt out of taking it.

Yes, the ban on smoking is a waste of time and kills only businesses.

# 2445

Posted: 25/07/2009 10:57

hello nice to meet you    this is my adress msn farid197016@hotmail.com

# 2444

Posted: 10/03/2009 09:04

All you smoking nazis will probably get your way and will have no need to post your big brother like anti smoking rants in the future, because in these recessionary times, and taking into account the amount of pubs that have closed and the rest going to the wall at the rate of noughts, due to the slavish enforcement of smoking and drunk driving bans (sorry to be politically correct drink driving. The smoking ban has divided people at a time when its necessary to pull together. Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot, but of course we Irish are well practised at that, its something we do well. The latest target now is fat people, for instance the woman who was discriminated against recently when her insurance was loaded 100% because she was deemed overweight by the health police. As we are now being penalised for smoking, drinking and being overweight and being old, I wonder who'll be next on their hit list. I reckon it's only the start of things to come in view of the easy implementation of these EU directives/bans in this country and with total compliance by the prolatariat. The yard stick can only get shorter.

# 2443

Posted: 09/03/2009 15:53

"Smokers and other other tobacco users are mentally-ill drug addicts".

How about we ban judgemental people using unproven disparaging comments about their fellow citizens?

# 2442

Posted: 09/03/2009 15:24

Oh Davis you are quite funny.  I have yet to see someone resorting to physical violence and crime, prostitution, send their children out to beg etc in order to support their SMOKING habit! Then again, like everyone else in this country, you assume that smokers are easier targets than junkies. Perhaps you should stop to consider how much money the state creams from tobacco tax each year, before you hurl accusations.

# 2441

Posted: 09/03/2009 13:16

ALL smoking (indoors and out) should immediately be banned. Smokers and other other tobacco users are mentally-ill drug addicts. The tobacco pushers and their "friends" will be prosecuted for murder and genocide of the human race.

# 2440

Posted: 06/03/2009 22:21

The smoking ban in pubs should not be overturned.

# 2439

Posted: 08/01/2009 18:00

Cosmo, spoken like a true Cromwellian, just a bit hard to believe!

# 2438

Posted: 08/01/2009 15:38

Am just back from Andorra a few days ago where they still allowed smoke in the pubs. As someone who has the odd ciggi myself, I hope it is never allowed in-doors in public places again, and would love it if everywhere brought in the ban - it's bad enough smoking your own never mind every one else's, and my hangover was far worse than normal!

# 2437

Posted: 06/01/2009 18:05

You will never see through your bias. If all your research is on Government sights or sites like the ACS,ALA or other of our so-called non-profits, you will never see the truth. You have the Anti-smokers disease and there is no cure.

# 2436

Posted: 06/01/2009 16:15

virgilk,

“ Opinions mean very little since we are all subject to misinformation 24/7 by those with agendas and have the funds to keep it before the public.”

One can only wonder at the agenda of an American who believes he can influence the majority of the Irish people who have embraced the public health benefits associated with the smoking ban in the work place.

“A lie, no matter how large, becomes the accepted truth if repeated ofter enough. This is used to control our thinking and it works on the majority.”

That was a convenient statement from someone who obviously does not believe in the concept of democracy and majority rule.

What makes you think we care what YOUR Government says?

There is no smoke witofire!

# 2435

Posted: 06/01/2009 14:09

Virgilk,

I didn't use google to check your incorrect facts. I checked the CDC website as that is the one that you quoted as saying that only 18% of lung cancer was caused by smoking. I felt that you were talking rubbish with your so-called facts and easily confirmed it within 5mins on a reputable site like CDC. (certainly far preferable to some crank called “madmaxmcgarrity” with a makey-up site on geocities.)

# 2434

Posted: 05/01/2009 19:33

JamesH (Spider-man)

I forgot to point out, you should notice there is no wedge on the ten deaths chart for deaths from SHS.

Ann, I understand you don't like links but I don"t like to use my opinion. I prefer to use well researched studies and articles to show the truth about subjects. Opinions mean very little since we are all subject to misinformation 24/7 by those with agendas and have the funds to keep it before the public. A lie, no matter how large, becomes the accepted truth if repeated ofter enough. This is used to control our thinking and it works on the majority.

Do you really believe everything our Government says or what those who have a profit motive say?

# 2433

Posted: 05/01/2009 19:10

James H (Spider-man)

Google and 5 minutes is not the end all of finding the truth. See Ten leading causes of death,from the CDC, link first. There is a small mistake in the lung cancer wedge. The larger wedge is for non-smokers and ex-smokers. The smaller wedge included in the 23% is for smokers. The 83% is not the smokers. The other links are also eye opening.

http://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/ANTI-SMOKING.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/ADDADHDvsSMOKINGgraph.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/COST.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/ASTHMAvsSMOKING.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/SHSSCAMCHARTED.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/TENCAUSESofDEATH.htmhttp://www.geocities.com/madmaxmcgarrity/birthweightvssmokinggraph.htm

# 2432

Posted: 05/01/2009 15:08

Virgilk,

Your grasp on reality is virtually non-existent when it comes to facts on smoking. Too much smoke must be getting in your eyes. You refer to the CDC saying that only 18% of lungcancer is caused by smoking. Well I just couldn't believe that so I did a quick 5 min hunt on the cdc website site and found this in less than 5 mins.

"In the United States, about 90% of lung cancer deaths in men and almost 80% of lung cancer deaths in women are due to smoking."

It also says that 30% of all cancer is caused by smoking.

Your addiction really is getting the better of your logical side.

# 2431

Posted: 05/01/2009 10:52

Misinformation my backside.

Do you work for Carrolls ?

The only reason that cigarettes are not banned is because they bring in scary amounts of excise duty that is then used in the health service !!

When we heard that there were minute traces of dioxins in pork we stopped buying pork.......................don`t figure. Cigarettes are HIGHLY addictive and smokers are living a lie !!

# 2430

Posted: 04/01/2009 12:13

I agree with Virgilk, there is a lot of misinformation about smoking related illnesses.

Recent statistics shows that smoking has increased by 2% since the smoking ban while heart attacks increased by 20% in the past 10 years. Two years ago the smoking facists announced that heart attacks had decreased because of the smoking ban and when statistics now shows they have increased they have nothing to say.

Of course big pharma will tells us its our lifestyle of bad diet, lack of exercise and drink and try to save us from ourselves by conjuring up easy fix solutions like nicotine patches and sugarfree gum etc like they did for the dirty smokers, while making a fortune for themselves and the vested interests. Something is very wrong here when nobody is held accountable for all this propaganda.

Adding to the misery of smokers who have to sit outside pubs in cold weather and with the closure of pubs and massive job losses, our hospitals are more crowded than ever with no quantifiable difference in health. Then we're told that we're better off than most third world countries, albeit marginally.

A person on this forum has given a link to Freedom to Choose (F2C). This group - International Coalition Against Prohibition are holding the worlds first conference at the EU Parliament Buildings on January 27/28th. The item on the agenda is Smoking Bans and Exposing the Lies.

My husband and I, both smokers, will be taking a city break in Brussels to coinside with and give our support to this demo and hopefully will be able to tell them how Ireland are 'leaders' in Europe for bans if nothing else.

# 2429

Posted: 29/12/2008 17:27

Just now on the News. SHS reduces chances if getting pregnant. What will they come up with next? Is it because they are out sniffing instead of staying in bed?

# 2428

Posted: 29/12/2008 17:21

Yes I believe Smoking Bans should be overturned. If Smoke Free is best and will draw more customers, signage should be all that is needed. Surely all those nasty smoky pubs will be empty and go out of business.

ANN, there are new non-smokers for a few days, until the reporters are gone. The non-smokers do this as if they have proven their point and then disappear for good. Yes, they do lie about an increase in business. The same tactic is used here in the US.

ExPat. You are welcome. I can understand your reluctance to post. I've found that Anti's always resort to name calling and vulgar remarks. Just remember, name calling and vulgar remarks are all they have to fall back on because 99% of real studies are against them. Nitwits will remain Nitwits no matter what proof you provide. They won't even take the time to look at the links provided because it will be contrary to their opinions.

Even the CDC shows, on their pie chart on the cause of death, that only 16% of those who get Lung Cancer are Smokers. Only 18% of those who have Heart Disease are Smokers. They fail to include SHS/ETS as a cause for any disease. Kind of makes me wonder why. Could it be because SHS/ETS  causes no diseases. 

# 2427

Posted: 29/12/2008 13:42

Hi 1955, we were not called the "Fighting Irish" for nothing.

# 2426

Posted: 29/12/2008 09:07

lots of info and discussion here

www.freedom2choose.info/

# 2425

Posted: 04/12/2008 16:01

John. You could save me some time in finding  and putting together those 82 projects. Is it possible for you to e-mail it to me. I have been following this group for a while and have checked on many. You are better researched than many. My e-mail is v.kleinhelter@insightbb.com.

There are very few who have devoted enough time into finding the truth. I have been at it since 1998 and it is good to see others can get to the real truth and not be seduced by the ACS/RWJF misinformation. I was of the opinion, when I first looked into SHS/ETS, that it was dangerous to health but after about six months I started to find the fraud being put out for general consumption.

I now have over 1,000 studies and researched articles I keep and send as attachments. I only have about 400 indexed. I am active in providing factual info to legislators and have a part in a move to have the Surgeon General investigated to bring out the misinformation in his report. Many have no idea he was provided with the studies that were also used in the EPA REPORT  that has been exposed as a fraud. What a tangled web. We may be able to help each other get the truth out.

We are all entitled to our opinion but not to our own facts.

# 2424

Posted: 04/12/2008 15:02

I have found reading this forum extremely tedious. It seems that if you have an opinion (and bear in mind it is only an opinion) you are harangued for having one regardless of what side you are on. Each person has their right to express their opinion and do so free of prejudice and degradation.

That said; I am not a smoker and in my opinion I believe the ban should be left in place; however, I am not insensitive and I do feel sorry for the smokers smoking outside on a miserable night.

In relation to comment # 2415; being from the country (having worked in a pub and knowing a pub owner or two) I believe that the prices of alcohol plus the enforcement of drink driving policing (which I approve of), along with the lack of public transport to be amongst the main causes of pubs doing very little trade in the country. - This is a topic for another forum.

# 2423

Posted: 04/12/2008 09:52

I'm sick of people quoting other experts and pointing to links on sites to so called other experts all of whom are making money out of these researches.  Bottom line is I only believe what I see with my own eyes. For instance of a group of 10 of my friends, six are now dead one of whom was a smoker.  As Witfire said there are links that can prove that the world is flat!

Before the introduction of the ban the govt assured the publicans of an influx of non smokers.  Where are they, and why have thousands of pubs closed down since the ban, and don't tell me its the price of drink because its a third cheaper in the country and business is worse there. Drink has not increased significanty in line with other rip-off commodities. 

I wonder if this was more spin and propaganda (the one thing our current crop of ministers are good at) or was this just yet another incorrect prediction by this govt who are adept at shooting themselves in the foot.  Of course we mortals suffer for all this. 

For a country that aspired to being the most successful in europe it is sad that we are now at the bottom of the pile.  Of course now in these hard times smokers who just want an indoor smoking area will not be considered an important enough subject to take up their valuable time, as they are too busy digging themselves out of the hole they've got us into. But make no mistake this was the start of the erosion of our civil liberties and undemocratic bullying.

Anyhow there is no excuse for not having proper indoor smoking areas. Why cant we have the situation they have in spain and portugal where smokers are treated like human beings and not like farm animals out in the elements.  Don't forget we are now living in hard times and non smokers may find themselves out in the cold too and may have more to worry about than the smell of smoke on their clothes.    

Just a couple of years ago people who spoke of an oncoming downturn and of civil unrest were scoffed at, where are we now!

# 2422

Posted: 04/12/2008 07:04

Lou,

Let’s try to understand the logic of your last post;

The government does nothing to provide incentives to keep our economy going yet if they interfere the are a ‘Nanny State’.

“Instead of forcing publicans to push their prices down in an effort to attract business what did they do?” Imagine the outcry if they did that!

You think the smoking ban is a good idea but that said, it is another attempt to turn us into a ‘nanny state’ where we can’t breathe without being taxed. That one is a classic! Made me smile! Are you against all good ideas?

You need to make up your mind about the smoking ban in the workplace and if you do not like the government vote against it in the next general election – that is if you do vote.

There is no smoke witofire!

# 2421

Posted: 03/12/2008 23:27

Vergilk, I have avoided writing recently as the anti brigade Have started personal insults instead of debating. Thank you for your enlightening posts.

# 2420

Posted: 03/12/2008 18:51

It is so sad to see that someone would think it a retrograde step that people would avoid the pub to go home to their Sunday dinner with their families and probably engage in family activities for the remainder of the evening. That is a far cry from the time when they spent half the day in the pub and the other half in bed. The higher standard of living opens up opportunities for social activities other than the pub! Our drinking habits in the past thankfully never set the trend for the rest of Europe.

So let’s all try to be more like our more courageous partners in Europe and stand up for our civil liberties (to breathe smoke-free air?) before they're wiped out for good.

There is no smoke witofire!

# 2419

Posted: 03/12/2008 18:37

Virgilk,

I am always willing to expand on my knowledge of viral infection. Your patronising comments on my concentration coupled with your presumably deliberate albeit pathetic, efforts to misspell my nickname are hardly an incentive to follow your links. However they lead to the same tiresome sites.

The theory of German virologist Harald Zur Hausen that there are causes of cancer other than tobacco smoke is irrelevant to the smoking ban in the workplace. All the other associated health problems will not now have to be tolerated by those in the workplace. Or do you, like Kevin, believe that smoke is good for your health? Maybe full of vitamins? Suitable for the starving people of Africa? Good for children in confined spaces such as cars?

“One thing worth remembering about Polls. They always support those who are behind them no matter what the proof actually is”. How is it that it does not apply to the poll on smoking in vehicles?

There is no smoke witofire!

# 2418

Posted: 03/12/2008 17:51

ExPat is correct about the WHO trying to hide their findings. As for the cases against the Surgeon who had his report written for him, I am in on one of those groups that will show him for the Fraud he is.

# 2417

Posted: 03/12/2008 14:24

Hi Ann I agree with you that this government is showing the ultimate hypocrisy in the demands they place on the Irish people. They are telling us to be patriotic yet they do nothing to provide incentives to keep our economy going. They look at everything through a negative lens. A classic example is this: a while ago pubs were complaining because the (cheaper) price of alcohol in shops was undercutting them and as a result they were losing business. Instead of forcing publicans to push their prices down in an effort to attract business what did they do? They took the typical Irish approach and proposed that shops be made increase the price of their alcohol to balance the scales more! Re the smoking ban, I do think it was a good idea and I (as a smoker) fully support it because I dont belive that non smokers should be subjected to my smoke in confined spaces, but that said, it is another attempt to turn us into a nanny state where we cant breathe without being taxed. Drinking sensibly were the buzzwords of the late 90's, then cigarette smoke, then car fuels, now they are starting on people's weight - it seems we can never please them!