Should slapping children be banned?

689 Comments
This discussion is now closed.
Sort by
This discussion is now closed.

4 Posts

Samm  ·  22 Nov 2009

It should definately be banned. There are other methods of dicipline than physical violence. Children are small and the effect it has on them physically and mentally is a concequence that is inexcusable. More often than not, parents tend to loose their temper with the child who is not yet old enough to realize what they have done wrong and thus, do not understand why they are being harmed. If an adult looses their temper things can escalate too high. Any violence towards an innocent child should not be condoned in any shape or form, under any circumstances, ever.


Inspire me.

 

1,850 Posts

JamesH  ·  02 Nov 2009

Jamie,

 

You are correct, that you mightn’t ban an adult from watching TV, or eating sweets. However a comparable punishment would include banning an adult from driving, or from a pub. Indeed, if an adult did not pay their subscriptions to their TV provider, the punishment would in fact be to stop that adult watching TV by disconnecting them.

 

 

Likewise instead of sending an adult to their room, or the naughty step you would send them to jail.

 

 

So as you see all the punishments that are acceptable for a child have an adult equivalent that is also acceptable, with the notable exception of hitting a child. Of course there are countries that find the death sentence or flogging or stoning acceptable punishments for adults. These might be comparable.

 

 

However, in general it is not acceptable to hit an adult, and it is fair to compare how we treat adults to children. Naturally the specifics have to be adapted for children, but the core principles should be the same.

 

3,037 Posts

buzz  ·  02 Nov 2009

Hi Jamie I think its more the fact that slapping an adult is considered a physica assault whihc is a bad thing. The point is it is so much worse because a child is physically smaller so you could do more damage. I think your post is pedantic for the sake of it to be honest.

 

658 Posts

Jamie  ·  02 Nov 2009

A lot of people seem to think "you wouldn't hit an adult, so why shouldn't hit a child"

You wouldn't ban an adult from watching tv, send him to his room, put him on the naughty step, not let them eat sweets, send him to bed early etc etc.

If you don't think children should be hit that's fair enough, but don't compare discipline a child to how you would treat an adult.

 

4 Posts

Granny, 66  ·  01 Nov 2009

In many countries it has been banned for decades already. Why slap? Just because we, ourselves, are angry, mostly. By slappin one just teaches children - to slap.

 

1 Posts

no name  ·  25 Oct 2009

Speaking from experience i was slapped a lot as a child by both parents and it has affected me in later life. Now if a person raises there voice or hand at me i run and hide like a child and i find this so embarassing and i think anybody that slaps their children is committing a crime and the gardai/police should be involved so in my opinion it should be banned. No parent should ever inflict terror like that on the children

 

3,037 Posts

buzz  ·  02 Oct 2009

Agreed, if I saw someone slapping a child I would be tempted to call the police and report an assault. It is an assault after all, technically and legally.

 

11 Posts

tatty  ·  02 Oct 2009

ANY ONE SLAPPING A CHILD IS COMMITING ASSULT IF THEY SLAPPED SOMEONE IN THE STREET THEY WOULD ENCOUNTER THE LEGAL SYSTEM OR IF VERY UNLUCKY GET A GOOD SLAPP IN RETURN .

 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  28 Nov 2008

ciara I agree, the whole "children should be seen and not heard" thing. If a child is acting out, it is because of the way they have been brought up, and the restrictions that have been imposed on them (obviously some restrictions are necessary for their safety and development and to develop responsibility etc) but then they are punished for behaving a certain way, when they are only behaving that way because of their upbringing. They are (for the most part) born as a balnk canvas, and we need to be so careful not to ruin that. Regards

 

196 Posts

ciara  ·  28 Nov 2008

I think one of our biggest problems in Ireland is that we look on our chidren as belongings which they aren't, our children are loaned to us and what a blessing they are, but for a lot of people a child who does not do exactly as he/she is told when they are told should be beaten, a lot of that comes from the last generation and they got it from their parents, and it goes right back.


jenny

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  27 Nov 2008

I don't think it really has anything to do with pro or anti. No one would support child abuse, ever. The parent or parents who physically or mentally abuse (or kill, as we have sadly seen in T.V. and media reports of late) a child are just that: "ABUSERS". They are not pro-anything, and certainly no one could be said to support them IMO.

Sure, there are a lot of people who should not be parents, and it is probably evident in advance that they should not be parents. But there is no law in place (and likely there never will be) to prevent such people conceiving, as in "a sterilisation programme for the psychopathic, the disordered, the unfit, etc. etc." It goes without saying that such individuals, not having a normal mind-set, do not think much about what involves having a child, and in all likelihood they do not care much anyhow. Abusers have a different mindset to the rest of us. "others" i.e. children, infants, and indeed adults, are seen as objects. This is the problem.

P

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  27 Nov 2008

Should slapping children be banned?

 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  27 Nov 2008

"find it amazing that pro-liferers would march and fight against people having the right to choose because every foetus has the right to life and yet when that foetus is born they treat that life as if it didn't have that right to live" - Ciara I hate to repeat myself but how exactly did you arrive at such a sweeping generalisation? I am pro life but I support the rights of the child before AND after birth. Just because someone is pro life does not mean they support child abuse...

 

196 Posts

ciara  ·  26 Nov 2008

I agree that to live is the best way to show those people that you are better than them, also about abortion, I fnd it amazing that pro-liferers would march and fight against people having the right to choose because every foetus has the right to life and yet when that fuetus is born they treat that life as if it didn't have that right to live


jenny

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  26 Nov 2008

That's it Lou!

You said: "I realised that to wish to die because of what was done would have just meant one more victory for the perpetrator.". Precisely. There is no better getting your own back than to live well and be seen to live well. Do not give a victory to the perpetrator, even though of course, the perpetrator is NEVER a victor. The perpetrator is a loser, of the worst sort, otherwise he or she would not be an abuser.

Best to everyone.

P

 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  26 Nov 2008

Ciara I agree there IS no link between views on abortion and child abuse - I was simply replying to a post which suggested that people who are pro life and wish to protect the unborn then go on to turn a blind eye to abuse of children after they are born. I do not believe this is the case. I suffered abuse as a child, sexual abuse and yes I will admit it changes you forever and you sometimes wonder "Is there a better, nicer, less insecure, more motivated person inside of me that never had a chance to develop because of what happened?" - but I never wanted to die. As a child, I did not have the capacity to get my head around the idea of "being better off dead" - as children act more from instinct and subconscious than adults who have been conditioned by society do. Then as I grew older, I realised that to wish to die because of what was done would have just meant one more victory for the perpetrator.

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  25 Nov 2008

It is O.K. Lou. And everyone. It is just so great to be able to air here the subject of physical abuse in childhood, and its nefarious consequences. And yes, it is quite well documented that having been abused physically, psychologically or emotionally as a child (i.e. being rendered voiceless, and at the risk of repeating again I put up this: www.voicelessness.com) does cause depression and repressed anger and great pain in later life.

The feeling of impotence as a child, of not being able to defend oneself, of not being able even to put one's defensive viewpoint (which should not be necessary anyhow if the child is treated as a human being), of being ridiculed, not "heard", slapped or beaten for just having normal childish hig spirits, is bound to burst forth in adulthood, with all sorts of consequences.

Best to you all

P

 

196 Posts

ciara  ·  25 Nov 2008

I'm sorry but I can't find any connection between abortion and child abuse. I am pro choice but that does't mean I subscribe to a particular position as regards child abuse, I dispise person abuse, but there were times when I was a child that I did wish I'd never been born, of course it wasn't physical abuse but emotional, I have 2 friends who still wish they had never been born, they were sexually, physicly and emotionaly abused, the funny thing is people wonder why the suside rate is so high in Ireland, that tought crossed my mind a few times, hopefullly I'm past that stage now


jenny

 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  25 Nov 2008

ok fair enough apologies. Lou

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  25 Nov 2008

Hello to everyone:

"Should slapping children be banned".

Just to mention again the title of this discussion thread. I only want to say that this has been a very helpful and informative discussion, on the painful subject of physical punishment (which is NOT discipline) and why it should be banned.

IMHO perhaps it is not helpful to bring in a different, and rather emotive, topic (i.e. abortion) into the discussion, as (and I was just looking up the list of other discussions) there are discussions precisely on the topic of abortion on this website.

Best to everyone

P.

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  25 Nov 2008

I don't think anyone was saying that Lou. Perhaps you are just reading into it.

 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  24 Nov 2008

And to add to that, I do not think it is fair to assume that if someone is against abortion, that they will automatically be pro child abuse. It is an unfounded and unfair claim. There ARE people who are against both (ie protect the child at ALL stages in life not JUST pre or post natal) and furthermore, those who are against abortion cannot be blamed for the fact that there are people who abuse children. For a start, you cannot claim that a child who has been abused has been wrongly "saved" by a pro lifer, and second, your insinuation that those who HAVE been abused would have been better off aborted in the womb is a direct and sickening insult to anyone who HAS survived abuse. Do not assume to tell me that because I survived childhood abuse that I would have been better off dead, and do not assume to tell me that I suffered ABUSE because my mother wanted to abort me but a pro lifer intervened and "saved" me. You have no facts, only sentiment, to support you ridiculous claim anonymous.

 

490 Posts

Patricia  ·  22 Nov 2008

Hello to everyone

Just to say that this slapping children thread does refer to physical abuse, and the humiliation and helplessness that causes and promotes. It is an unfortunate fact that physical abuse, as in slapping and beating, occurs in the home, and/or occurs or used to occur in schools (both of these being places where a child SHOULD feel happy and protected). Yelling at, shouting at and insulting children is also abuse, and in any case would accompany the beating or slapping

As for the despicable and violent practice of sexual abuse (also all too sadly and unfortunately this took or takes place in a home environment and/or school or institution) well that is another topic. No financial compensation could ever, ever, offset the trauma and life-long effects, loss of self-esteem and pain caused.

Unfortunately, physical abuse (beating children) is and was all too common in all countries of the world, regardless of the religion or non-religion of any such country.

Hope everyone has a good wekkend.

All the best

Patricia



 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  20 Nov 2008

That is a good point Ciara. It is true that we cannot allow our religious system to interfere with legislation involved in our justice system. I am a catholic and I am opposed to abortion however my reasons for being opposed to abortion are nothing to do with my indoctrination. I dont want to turn this into an abortion debate but sometimes I experience religious prejudice when I make my views known. People accuse me of being a "bible basher" because I dont agree with abortion, when my reasons for opposition have nothing to do with my religious values (to highlight this - catholicism frowns on divorce but I am in support of divorce for many reasons which I wont bore people with!). Re payouts for abuse victims, it is true that nobody can put a price on a childhood which has been destroyed by abuse. Regards

 

12,086 Posts

Anonymous  ·  20 Nov 2008

well said Ciara.It absolutely disgusts me that some of the loudest anf moast forceful opponents of abortion to protect what they see as unborn children are the those who also think it is okay to slap children to the point of physical abuse becuase it "didn't do them any harm". Protect the foetus at all costs no matter what the outcome or effect on others but it popen season on denying them their right to live a life free of physical abuse once they're born.

SICKENING

 

196 Posts

ciara  ·  20 Nov 2008

In this country we argue about things like divorce and abortion, and because we are a mainly a catholic country, we are against them without thinking of those who may not have the same beliefs as the rest of us, and because catholidcs are in the majority they win every time, eventually we did allow divorce but abortion is still on the table, in all our arguements we have never tought o f our children and allowed the abuse to go on and on and on until someone said enough that was wrong I shouldn't have been treated like that, so we gave them a few bob as if that could make up for missing a childhood and we were promised it would never happen again, and some peope believed that, even though there was nothing done to stop it, some people actually believe that there is no abuse in our schools any more, I don't believe it, our children are still being taught religion, catholic religion and none of the rules have changed since I was in school, Parents will have to look at what's happening to our children in school.


jenny

 

3,037 Posts

Lou  ·  20 Nov 2008

I cant believe 77% of posters think it is ok to use any form of physical violence on a child. Ok some might argue that "its only a tap" but the problem is, how do you define a "tap" - we are much bigger than children, and to raise our hands to one is disgraceful. Take an average male adult at 5ft 10 and weighing 14stone - how can he decide in all honesty how much force is acceptable to use when hitting a child of say 3ft?

 

490 Posts

Patricia (GMC11099)  ·  15 Nov 2008
That is absolutely dreadful, Ciara. Beyond belief. You know, there really are no words to describe such individuals, except the one I used "psychopathic", meaning someone who is (among other things) emotionally blind and callous with a lack of empathy.
Empathy is what defines us as humans.

Sadly, there are many people living with the inheritance of those not-so-long-ago bad days, when it was condoned, indeed praised, to beat the daylights out of children "for their own good".

All the best
P
 

196 Posts

ciara  ·  13 Nov 2008
Thank you Patricia and good for you, I'm sure you're right that they are psychotic although it was the catholic bit, it is after all a sin to be proud, now I can be proud when I do something that I know is right. My friend stood up to them and ended up in a home from where she was sent to a Magdalen laundry where she was sexually abused. She ended up having a baby at the age of 12 because of a rape, and another at 22, also a rape. The first baby lived to be 8, the second died at birth. That's how the nuns took care of her.

jenny

 

490 Posts

Patricia (GMC11099)  ·  12 Nov 2008
Hello Ciara:

How your message resonates with me! I am so sorry you were subjected to that kind of humiliation by people who were supposed to be your mentors. It is difficult to comprehend WHY there was this dire need in them to HAVE to humiliate at all costs. Where was the gain for them in humiliating? None. Therefore we can only be led to the disturbing conclusion that they ENJOYED humiliating (and I am certain they did), which leads us, by logic, to the unfortunate conclusion that such people are quite psychopathic.

I was "educated" at a convent boarding school, so I know exactly what you are talking about. Difference is that I stood up for myself, which was unheard of! The nuns did not particularly like me, alleging I was "proud". !! Good for ME!! On the flip side, it was a bad experience which made me someone I did not wish to be for quite a while thereafter.

So, Ciara, love yourself, because you (and we all) are lovable.

All the best
P
 

196 Posts

ciara  ·  12 Nov 2008
Perhaps the question at the top should read are children entitled to any respect, as a child I was bullied just like everyone else in the country, not sexually or physically but emotionally, I was told by my teachers (nuns) that I was usless and would always be usless, if you tell that to a child often enough she?he will start to believe you, and I did with the result that for most of my adult life I have suffereed from depression and irritable bowel which is usually caused by stress, I did learn to realize that I had to stop listening to them and I hope others out there will do the same, don't let them win.

jenny

 

3,037 Posts

Louise (EXH72940)  ·  11 Nov 2008
Yes Patricia I remember being really surprised when I first read the title - I had been under the illusion that it WAS banned!
 

196 Posts

lilly  ·  10 Nov 2008
I must agree with anonymous, while it is true that the children of bullies often become bullies (and that is what a person who picks on someone smaller than themselves is), it is not always the case thank God or everyone in Ireland would be a bully.

jenny

 

490 Posts

Patricia (GMC11099)  ·  10 Nov 2008
Yes, Louise, what you say is pure logic. Yet, it is quite extraordinary that the question at the top here "Should slapping children be banned" is even one that needs to be asked.
You have, I think, made the excellent point that children are not possessions.

Another poster made a good point here that it is no wonder there is so much depression, masked depression, severe anxiety, suppressed anger, denial and a host of other ills suffered by an astonishing number of adults nowadays, if people were humiliated and physically struck in their childhood.

Basically, like much else, it is about respect.

Best to all
P
 

3,037 Posts

Louise (EXH72940)  ·  10 Nov 2008
Leona you make a very good point and to add to that, if I was to hit someone elses child, I would be given a criminal record (and rightly so) yet the guardian of that child would get away with it. This logic assumes that the child is a possession and therefore a parent can treat them whatever way they want. Being a child's guardian should not make one exempt from the same laws that govern how OTHERS treat your child. If it is wrong to hit someones child because it is simply wrong to hit a child, then why should one be exempt from this law simply because one has given birth/is guardian to that child. It is either wrong to hit someone, or it isn't, and the theory of "ownership" should not make anyone exempt from such laws.
 

490 Posts

Patricia (GMC11099)  ·  10 Nov 2008
This from The Commissioner for Human Rights.



https://wcd.coe.int/ViewDoc.jsp?id=1237635&Site=CommDH&BackColorInternet=FEC65B&BackColorIntranet=FEC65B&BackColorLogged=FFC679

""Conclusions

The imperative for removing adults’ assumed rights to hit children is that of human rights principles. It should therefore not be necessary to prove that alternative and positive means of socializing children are more effective. However, research into the harmful physical and psychological effects of corporal punishment in childhood and later life and into the links with other forms of violence do indeed add further compelling arguments for banning the practice and thereby breaking the cycle of violence.



"""The invention of concepts such as ‘reasonable chastisement’ and ‘lawful correction’ in the law arises from the perception of children as the property of their parents. This is the modern equivalent of laws in force a century or two ago allowing masters to beat their slaves or servants, and husbands to beat their wives. Such ‘rights’ are based on the power of the stronger over the weaker and are upheld by means of violence and humiliation.

""Children have had to wait until last to be given equal legal protection from deliberate assaults – a protection the rest of us take for granted. It is extraordinary that children, whose developmental state and small size is acknowledged to make them particularly vulnerable to physical and psychological injury, should be singled out for less protection from assaults on their fragile bodies, minds and dignity.



"""Sadly, the issue of corporal punishment has tended to fall off political and other adult agendas, even the agendas of strong human rights advocates. Its low priority is probably because of the very personal nature of the problem – most adults, all over the world, were hit as children and may have hit their own children. Politicians find it an unpopular issue; it is easier to focus only on extreme forms of violence to children and on violence by children, against which there is already a popular consensus. Also, many politicians are particularly wary of interference in the traditionally ‘private’ arena of the family.

All of this may be understandable but does not provide good excuses. Non-violent conflict resolution, tolerance and respect for others should be taught through setting good examples. How can we expect children to take human rights seriously and to help build a culture of human rights, while we adults not only persist in slapping, spanking, smacking and beating them, but actually defend doing so as being ‘for their own good’? Smacking children is not just a lesson in bad behaviour; it is a potent demonstration of contempt for the human rights of smaller, weaker people.
 

490 Posts

Patricia (GMC11099)  ·  10 Nov 2008
Hello Leona:

Yes, what you say in your post is, sadly, true. If we slapped a person (adult) who maybe gave us cheek or if we perceived that we were slighted by any such person, we would (as you correctly say) be taken up for assault, or we would be given a hefty slap back ourselves!
Discipline is possible without hitting, yelling, humiliating.

P
 

- Posts

Anonymous  ·  10 Nov 2008
"It's no secret that physically and/or emotionally abused children often become physically and emotionally abusive parents." Patricia do you even stop to think what you are saying about those of us who have ALREADY suffered childhood abuse. I suffered abuse when I was growing up and I would NEVER raise my hand to a child. Please stop and THINK about what you are saying because generalisations do not help anyone. All they do is ADD to the hurt that abuse survivors already feel. What about those of us who HAVE been abused but would NEVER abuse another? Where do WE fit into your cosy little statistics?
 

196 Posts

Leona  ·  09 Nov 2008
I am an adult and if I hit or even push another adult I could get a criminal record so how can it be ok to hit a small child. it should be banned. parents will only hit their child in temper when they are are at their wits end. it's a final effort to make the child do as they want, which is not always right anyway. you need a licence to have a television but any idiot can have a child. no one can hit me to make me do their bidding but they can and do hit children especially their own.

jenny

 

490 Posts

Patricia (GMC11099)  ·  07 Nov 2008
An excerpt from the article by a Dr. J. Carver who "
has thirty years of clinical experience in a variety of settings including inpatient, outpatient, private practice, state hospitals, child-protective agencies, community mental health centers, neuro-rehabilitation, and now juvenile correctional facilities. ""

Excerpt:

"""Where did we develop our current method of discipline? In most cases, we use the method that was present in our childhood environment. If our parents yelled and screamed – we will likely yell and scream at our children. It's no secret that physically and/or emotionally abused children often become physically and emotionally abusive parents. Some discipline methods seem to be preferred in certain families, as though the method and technique was approved for use in that family. I've noticed some families have approved aggressive and violent parenting methods such as face slapping, paddling with switches/belts/boards, or injury-producing physical assaults. Adults using these methods typically have a justification such as "I was brought up that way and I turned out ok"..

The methods of discipline/correction in a home have a strong influence on later teenage and adult behavior and attitude. We can create certain behaviors and attitudes in our children by the discipline methods we use in the family. Most of the time, the parent may be unaware they are creating these behaviors and attitudes as they are using methods that have been accepted in their family for generations. Over the years, I've seen parents mention the correction of their child and the methods used without any sense that the method may be abusive or emotionally damaging. I've heard "I told him I'll kill myself if he doesn't straighten up" or "When she said that word I busted her in the mouth and she didn't say it again""..


""Methods of discipline and correction used by parents would not be tolerated in the adult world. Severe and damaging parenting techniques are used with children as the children have little ability to exercise their constitutional rights. They can't challenge their consequences and can't afford an attorney. Let's imagine the consequences of using some child parenting techniques in the adult world.""

The article is at:

http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=855
 
This discussion is now closed.