Do you believe the smoking ban will be enforced fairly around the country?

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2 Posts

cleanorpoision  ·  16 Oct 2009

 I am not a smoker but I think the ban is been used to bully smokers I have seen in my work place been bullied for smoking out side in the shed .

while inside the same bosses are always spraying fly spray air fresher  and making workers use a lot of cleaning chemicals I counted 29 different bottles  of sprays been at one time surely in the bottles there is a lot more chemicals then  there are is cigarette's .

I would sooner be in a room full of smokers then have the aerosol sprayed in the room .

 

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Jane  ·  09 Sep 2006
Is the ban being enforced fairly??
What a great question.
Its not being enforced at all.
 

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Blaggarde (JLK24692)  ·  07 Feb 2006
The final conclusion RD about your views "not" being totalitarian, i.e. inherently fascist, though referenced by the author, does not appear in the reading referenced. There can be no doubt that it is his personal opinion, intended to mollify any nagging guilt arising in current Anti's, such as yourself, when campaigning to legally discriminate against people who smoke.

The desire to quell smokers has its roots in fascism and nothing has changed about that. The ideology is precisely the same today; "public health" or "strength through joy" - take your pick.

The ideology tie-in is discussed in the following article from the BMJ, together with a mention of how smokers could not expect to have equal medical treatment in Nazi Germany; something which is echoing around the modern-day Anti movement also.

http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/310/6976/396?ijkey=5684b3b61ddf7376ac82f09d6c7c81ff5dbad785&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha
 

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Kevin  ·  06 Feb 2006
Beautiful, Blaggard! Where did you find that? Hey, Rainy Day! Did you also notice that when Hitler died many of his anti-tobacco underlings either lost their jobs or were silenced?
Hmmmmm.........
 

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RainyDay  ·  06 Feb 2006
Hi Blaggarde - Thanks for educating me on that interesting material. I presume you did read all the way through to the final conclusion that "That does not mean, however, that antismoking movements are inherently fascist"?
 

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Blaggarde (JLK24692)  ·  06 Feb 2006
http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/313/7070/1450

Knock yourself out RD !
 

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Kevin  ·  02 Feb 2006
Well,Fifi, at least the smoke would have dispersed the 'stinker' a bit more and more people would have had the honour of smelling it! I think it's very unfair that only one person got to smell that one don't you think!
 

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fifi  ·  01 Feb 2006
ha haaaa... ohh nice one indeed! give me the smell of lovely smoke anyday compared to toxic human gases, body odour, cleaning bleach & general lack of personal hygiene.
 

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Kevin  ·  31 Jan 2006
Fifi, On the subject of farting, I just have to tell you this one! Picture this!
One hell of a cranky woman sitting in the corner of a pub. Gives out about everything and of course couldn't bear cigarettes. But I couldn't even do the anti-smokers justice by allowing this person into their areana because they wouldn't want her.
Anyway another customer is standing by the counter at her corner and silently leaves a massive stinker! It rushes over specifically in her direction and the next minute she is buried inside her jumper coughing and literally choking! This goes on for about five minutes! Then some customer pipes up, "My God, I never saw you as bad as that when the smoking was here!".
But she can't answer him back because she is still choking and every time she comes up for air her head plunges back down in a frenzy!
Boy, I tell you, that really made my day! It's a wonder that I didn't spray urine all over the place!
 

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fifi  ·  31 Jan 2006
Kevin I do agree that all the crack does end up out in these shelters. Even the non smokers dribble out in search of a laugh & put up with the smoke in order to gain some fun for the night. By the way, another thing Ive noticed since the smoking ban came into pubs is the obnoxious smells we have to put up with now. Between people farting to people who see a bar of soap and a deodrant once a year on christmas eve. At least when we could smoke before the ban, it managed to cover up the stink
 

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RainyDay  ·  31 Jan 2006
Hi Blaggarde - Have you got any sources for your Hitler story? I didn't think that the health dangers of cigarettes were known at all in Hitler's time - but I'm open to correction if you have some hard information on this?
 

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Blaggarde (JLK24692)  ·  30 Jan 2006
Well RD, throwing smokers out to create your hallowed smoke-free atmosphere in all pubs everywhere all the time is most certainly totalitarian. This view of things was perfected by hitler who banned smokers too and for exactly the same reasons as you propose. In terms of totalitarian i can't think of a more authoritative source. And you say i'm misguided...... Wrong end of the stick there RD.
 

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Kevin  ·  30 Jan 2006
Fifi, How can pubs provide facilities if they have no room outside. Some of them have a small bit of room but have to put up with neighbours complaining about noise. Others are situated dangerously and will put their customers at risk. What is most laughable is a beautiful place inside and all the customers outside in a makeshift hut! Why the need to do up your premises inside at all for? A place inside is no problem and could be given to you easily without imposing your will on anyone but our retarded government won't allow it!
 

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Kevin  ·  30 Jan 2006
No, Rainy Day. It is all about a government who sold a product that imposed it's will on others. Stop blaming the smoker all the time. The government are happy with what they are doing and they are only trying to keep the Anti-smokers quiet so that they won't lose out a fortune of money.
 

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fifi  ·  30 Jan 2006
As a smoker I believe its only right we do not subject non smokers to our addiction. However, I do have one gripe. Every pub should make the best possible effort to ensure they provide a warm comfortable shelter for those who do smoke. We are paying top dollar for our drinks, we kept you in business for years before this ban was enforced. All we ask is that you oblige us by providing such facilities. There is nothing more humiliating than smoking out on a street in the wind and rain.
 

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RainyDay  ·  30 Jan 2006
Hi Blaggarde - Thanks for your empathy. It's just a pity that in the same post, you go on to prove Godwins law (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law) true.

But you are clearly misguided. Cleaning up the air in pubs & other workplaces is the absolute opposite of totalitarianism. It is the absolute opposite of 'imposing my will on others'.

It is all about stopping smokers from imposing their will on others, as they saw fit to do for decades.
 

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Blaggarde (JLK24692)  ·  29 Jan 2006
Kevin, oul son, Anti's like RD and PJK will be only too delighted to run forever around in circles with you on a discussion about litter, if that is what you want.

RD, I was impressed - genuinely as you know - when you told us about your personal circumstances back along there. I empathise with your loss and it can't be easy living with hereditary doubts. I've experienced it both ways; in my inlaw family there have been two deaths at age 38 & 40 (one non- smoker, one smoker)and two serious scares. In my own family, my father's father - who smoked all his life up and until - died of a hospital bug aged 92.

While you may or may not consciously be "looking back", experiences of the sort of strength you describe are bound to have a conditioning effect on your current motivations and lifestyle choices.

The problem arises when you are motivated to inflict your solutions on others who don't share your beliefs, in much the same way as you complain about smokers formerly inflicting their smoke on you.

Your way of thinking about this issue - even if it is invisible to you - can be summed up in one word. Totalitarianism. And while i can now see why you might be led in that direction, if that solution is the best we can do then we are no better than nazi germany, the former soviet union or any tin-pot dictatorship that you care to think of. There has to be accommodation for all, and that involves smoker-friendly venues for those that want them.
 

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Kevin  ·  29 Jan 2006
I hope all of you aren't gone away making a disposable ashtray and leaving me out! I want a cut out of this idea!
 

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Kevin  ·  27 Jan 2006
Ah, Rainy day, come off it! A stray butt is all that there was before! My eyes are sore from looking at butts now. Millions upon millions of butts went into ashtrays in offices, restaurants, cafes and pubs. Sure where can they go now? The amount of bins around are pathetic and there are none at all in some villages. On top of that the bins get filled in no time so they overflow onto the ground. Other bins get vandalised.
I saw a woman stopping her two year old from putting one in it's mouth! Now that's disgusting!
Use your common sense. Stop waiting for smokers to clean up because they may never do it unless of course that you want to give out for the rest of your life. Some people love to complain and they're never happy so nothing gets done in the meantime. Are you going to be one of those ones, Rainy Day?
 

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RainyDay  ·  27 Jan 2006
Hi Kevin - You tell us that responsibility comes with fairness - Where were all the responsible smokers before the ban when they could smoke where/when they liked? We still had a huge littering problem with fag ends in those bad old days.
 

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Kevin  ·  26 Jan 2006
PJK, If it was that simple people would be taking responsibility now. I mentioned the one third using the bins After I put a room inside for smokers.
Responsibility only comes with fairness. You do something for me and I'll do something for you. That is the better system all the time and is proven in simple ordinary matters.
There is no fairness in the smoking ban so you are left with irresponsiblility. That's the nature of the human being and this is not going to change.
No butts mentioned an inhaler for nicotine. No good I say. If it's through the nostrils forget it but if it's in the mouth maybe.
Dummy cigarettes are also useless, no one likes these. There is only one way to go and that is to make some kind of a safer cigarette that tastes very similar to our ones at the moment. A cigarette that supplied a vitamin I think would go down a bomb or a mineral, still have smoke but no smell. That I think would be my ideal cigarette. Herbal smell so awful but their taste isn't that bad. Lots of other smokers have told me the same thing. Those that are on lighter cigarettes would especially favor this one.
This is what we want. We don't want substitues at all because they only work for very little people. Leave us pack up in our own time, just give us a safer cigarette. We are literally shouting for one at the moment and I really mean that.
 

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Anonymous  ·  26 Jan 2006
Kevin, sorry to be picky but you said "About one third of the smokers are using the bins so that leaves one third of smokers not using them". If one third are using the bins, well that leaves two thirds (66%) not using the bins, not as you say one third. Your whole argument about ashtrays is rubbish: all that has to happen is that the two thirds of smokers that you refer to that are not currently using the bins, only need to start using them, rather than waiting for someone else to clean up after them. It is called taking responsibility. It is simple really; no need to make it complicated.
 

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NoButts  ·  25 Jan 2006
On the subject of disposable ashtrays... at my wedding I had a number of Japanese guests, some of whom were smokers. Each carried a small pouch with a spring-loaded opening (rather like change purses one sees occasionally). They deposited their ashes and butts into them, to be transferred later to a bin when it was convenient. There's no reason why Irish smokers couldn't do the same.

(Perhaps when blaggarde gets elected, he'll make such pouches available for free. :-)

Alternatively, how about a deposit of, say, 1 euro on each cigarette butt and packet? I think the litter problem would disappear overnight.

Or, how about supplying nicotine in inhaler form, like asthma puffers. This could also open a market in designer dummy cigarettes that smokers could use to keep their hands busy, without releasing any junk into the air.
 

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Anonymous  ·  25 Jan 2006
By heck, Kev, are you serious about the disposable ashtry?? I don't know but could this actually work?
 

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Kevin  ·  25 Jan 2006
Ah, butt see, if you put the smokers in a room you would clean up at least half the country in one whip! Then you would only have the other half to deal with. About one third of the smokers are using the bins so that leaves one third of smokers not using them. So with a room you will have 3/4 of smokers nice and tidy! That's a lot of litter off the ground.
If you don't decide to go with a room until the smokers clean up then the ashtray is the way to go first. If every smoker in the country had to use a disposable ashtray, you would also catch the hash smokers because they would stick out more amongst the crowd if they had no ashtray. So you would be killing two birds with one stone. Worth thinking about!
 

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Anonymous  ·  25 Jan 2006
Kevin,

There is no need to buy an ashtray at all. Just use the many street litter bins, which all seem to have a metal top, for quenching your butts before putting them in the bin. Most pubs also have ashtrays on the walls at their doorway. So no need for any special purchases, just be civic minded and use the facilities provided, rather that throwing your rubbish on the ground. Simple really!!
 

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Kevin  ·  25 Jan 2006
Fifi, I was going grand in that last post until you came along! Now I have to try and figure out a way for a million smokers to stop! Christ!
There is one way but I don't know if it would work or not. Everytime someone buys a pack of cigarettes, they must also buy a disposable ashtray. If they already have an ashtray on them then they don't have to buy one. All the money from the ashtrays could go towards health funding. That will drive up the price of the cigarettes without putting it on the packet itself and help more people to pack up cigarettes. It would also create new employment.
 

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RainyDay  ·  25 Jan 2006
Hi Fifi-It's hard to believe that your littering habits are anything to do with your feelings of rejection given that the littering was so prevalent before the ban.

Hi Kevin - It's great to hear that you'll be persuading your friends not to litter (though one wonders why they need persuasion in the first place). Once you work your way through the other million (approx) smokers in the country, I'll be happy to talk about some accomodations for smokers.
 

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Anonymous  ·  25 Jan 2006
Kevin, Your resolution is a good one, and to be congratulated. However unfortunately there are more people with FiFi's atitude than yours. This apalling atitude is not confined to smokers atall, but seems to be endemic in the Irish population. Ours streets & countryside are a disgrace, and this is down to individual Irish people just droppoing their litter anywhere. People have this atitude that it is someone else's job to put their litter away properly.
 

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fifi  ·  25 Jan 2006
Well Rainy day, us smokers seem to littering all the lovely footpaths too. Its all that standing around in the rain you see. We kind of get pissed off standing & smoking in bad weather with passing people gawking at you like you were a streetwalker, so we end up throwing our butts on the ground in frustration like any good reject will do!
 

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Kevin  ·  25 Jan 2006
Actually, Rainy Day. That's one of my new year resolutions! Since January 1st I have stopped putting 15 cigarettes a day on the ground outside (the other 25 were smoked inside). That's a massive 25 x 15! I promise you that I'll tell all my friends not to throw butts on the ground and I'll carry a plastic bag with me everytime I go out and I'll pick up as many as I can. Whenever I travel to Dublin or Waterford or wherever I'll do the same! And I don't want any pay what-so-ever for it, okey! I mean that now.
Maybe then you'll give me a room, huh!
 

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RainyDay  ·  24 Jan 2006
Hi Kevin - It's ironic that you use the term 'force feeding'. Were you worried about force feeding your second hand smoke on those around you? The problem with the 'nice cosy room' option is that (based on my pre-ban experiences) smokers won't respect the limits. They will litter their butts all over the floor. They will smoke on their way into the room, and their way out of the room. They will smoke near the room. Let's start seeing some consideration from the smoking community (i.e. stop littering our streets with butts) as a trust-building measure first.
 

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Anonymous  ·  24 Jan 2006
It is impossible because havign a smokign room means staff would have to have access to it whihc defeats the purpose of introducing a ban in order to protect the staff.

Short of using a naso-gastric tube and sedating someone, I can't think of any possible way to force feed them.
Kevin, did someone force you to smoke?? That's awful.
 

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Kevin  ·  24 Jan 2006
Putting us all in a nice little cosy room is bringing the smokers with you, Rainy. So it's not impossible.
The police cannot get agreement from the criminal fraternity anyway because they have to go through their lawyers! You are the real criminals because you never went through the people. You just forced your views on everybody. Do you force feed your children too?
 

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RainyDay  ·  23 Jan 2006
Hi Kevin - Bringing the smokers with me is a nice theory, but absolutely impossible in practice. Do you expect the police to get agreement from the criminal fraternity before they can imprison them?
 

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Kevin  ·  22 Jan 2006
Rainy Day, When I came off the computer I had this huge grin on my face over the ghost! But when I went back again to see the reply, my face dropped! I had got it wrong!
The ghost is smoking 20 disgusting fags so! I know it's not the same but sure it might still bring a smile to your face!
When you say that you are looking forwards I would say that you are looking sideways because you forgot to take the smokers with you. Having everyone on your side is really looking forward I think.
 

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RainyDay  ·  20 Jan 2006
Hi Kevin. I'm not blaming anything. I don't look backwards. I'm looking forwards, and I'm just doing everything I can to make sure those things don't happen to me. Believe it or not, I'm actually quite fond of pipe or cigar smoke, so the ghost wouldn't bother me at all.
 

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Kevin  ·  20 Jan 2006
Rainy Day, It sounds like you are on a bit of a mission which could be understandable. A person dying in the family is a hard one. Of course having your brother having a heart attack at such a young age is also very frightening. But I see more. Maybe you are blaming all cigarette smokers for this happening. I see it particularly in your last sentence when you say that you don't have to worry about Who sits along side of you. This was obviously referring to the smoker. How very paranoid you are! Well, just to add to your paranoid, the next time you sit in a pub or restaurant there could be a ghost sitting alongside of you smoking a big huge smelly cigar! And just when you thought everything was alright!
 

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RainyDay  ·  19 Jan 2006
Hi Kevin - No one single reason, but here's a few reasons which contributed to my view. My father died when I was 3 (he was 46) leaving a widow to bring up 6 children on her own. While I never wen't hungry, things were not easy. My father was fit, healthy (as it seemed), not overweight, exercised regularly, but he was a smoker. One of my older brothers had his first heart attack at 26 and has gone through a series of heart problems since. While smoking isn't the only cause in his case, it is undoubtedly a major factor. I've seen that the only one of my many nieces & nephews who has asthma is the one who comes from a smoking home - coincidence eh? I've also been struck many many times by the general lack of consideration shown by many smokers for non-smoking areas. We were made to feel like the bad guys for being bold enough to ask for smokers to stay in smoking areas. It is just so amazingly civilised now to be to bring my toddler into any pub or restaurant for lunch without having to worry about who is going to sit down beside us.
 

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Anonymous  ·  19 Jan 2006
No, I enjoy it and ahve no intention of beating you.
Incidentally, I have joined a gym too and I GO 5 mornings a week.
 
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