Are you reassured that the MMR vaccination is safe?

# 106

Posted: 25/01/2011 12:03

Good points, there is an awful lot of scare mongering about, propagated by those with an anti-conventional agenda.

Also didn't Wakefield withdraw his "findings" a while back? I grew up thinking there was a link between autism and the vaccine because the idea was thrown about so freely. It was only later I realised this is not true. In fact, to say autism is down to one simple factor such as a vaccine is simplifying a very complex disorder. Many causes have been put forward such as heritability, prenatal exposure to teratogens, parental age etc - but nobody can say for sure, with the cause likely to be multi-factorial, and not simply based on one injection.

# 105

Posted: 24/01/2011 12:39

David: There is data re unvaccinated v vaccinated. All the recent deaths from Swine Flu bar one possible exception have been to people who were not vaccinated. There is no “debate” amongst medical experts. They only people who oppose vaccines are people who are completely unqualified to voice an expert opinion.

Sinead: Any parent MUST follow the advice of the medical profession and not various nutcases who write nonsensical web posts. It’s very simple, you skip a vaccine because a non medical person tells you to and your child is exposed and could become very ill, become sterile, deaf or dies or you follow expert medical advice and the child is protected.  

PS All those pushing the scientific position have been validated by all that has come out over the last few years. Learn from this when similar arguments crop up in future.

PPS I hope that one good thing that will come from the recent tragic flu deaths is that parents will now realise how important vaccination is.

# 104

Posted: 24/01/2011 11:07

Sineadwx, correct decision to get it in my opinion. The autism link by Wakefield doesn't exist. In his testing he had a tiny control pool, he exaggerated test results, altered samples and before his "tests" he had put a lot of money into an alternative drug that would benefit from his findings. He was a complete conman, and it's sad to think that people still make the link. Jenny McCarthy's (actress, playboy model and MTV presenter) child had the vaccine and was diagnosed with autism and she has linked the two (wrongly) and is very vocal about it, advising people not to give it to her children. Although, reading some of the stuff she's coming out with, she seems to be going down the Jim Corr route. My baby isn't born yet, but I won't think twice about giving them the MMR. But you're right to read up about it and make a decision based on that.

# 103

Posted: 23/01/2011 00:46

Can I just say a Thank You to all posters on here.  The sheer length of time that this online debate has raged on is proof positive of the confusion and worry amongst parents and indeed of the frustration on the part of those who are convinced of the vaccine's safety.  I was interested in this thread because my baby son is due to get his MMR jab in the next couple of weeks and I wanted to be fully informed before I made a decision either way. I must admit, prior to reading this debate I was adamant that my little boy would get all other vaccinations but not the MMR jab. I can admit that this was due to lack of knowledge and research and falling into the trap of believing the sensationalised stories rather than trying to find the facts for myself.

I'm still wary but I probably will now have my son immunised. I understand that there may or may not be risks but weighing up the arguments I've read from both sides of the fence and from doing some further investigation I now fully understand the risks of measels, mumps or rubella.  Before I was of the opinion that these were harmless illnesses - now I'm not so sure.

At the end of the day the responsibility and final decision lies with each parent. Like every other act of parenting, you do the best you can and hope that your decision is the right one. I don't think any parent should be slated for having their children immunised or deciding it is not right for their family. Its an extremely emotional decision and one that I personally did not take lightly. I do think that some of the more science based opinions here may sometimes forget the emotion attached to the anti-MMR argument and the reasons that it is so difficult for people to believe the research showing the safety of the jabs. If research studies against the MMR are constantly being discredited then why should we believe any research studies? Yes, yes I know that some are carried out to more stringent standards than others but try telling that to a mum like me who is not medically trained, does not understand the "lingo" and can't tell one research studies validity from another's.

I do however now understand that the wider community is something that deserves to be protected. My little boy attends creche daily with 6 other babies. I would hate to think that they might suffer permanent damage through illness because I took the decision not to immunise. 

# 102

Posted: 04/02/2010 14:13

Until there is a large-scale study done of the differences between the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations this debate will continue to rage on.

It is surely in all our interests that this happen as soon as possible.

Could anybody disagree with such a study?

# 101

Posted: 04/02/2010 13:22

hi

i agree with buzz,. in the past i did blame the MMR for my son having autism, we didnt no that he was born with this condition, people kept say it was the MMR, but then we had a top doctor check our son out, he could see by only looking at our son that he was born with this condition, autism isnt a diease, kids nowadays they can be helped with this, when people hear oh this child has that condition, they think oh my god, my family on my side were like that and they still are, they are like ashamed that they have a grandchild with this, we dont care what others think we love our son no matter what.

# 100

Posted: 04/02/2010 11:50

Why have we got over 15,000 people diagnosed with Crohn's

disease and Ulcerative colitis?

Who knows? Diet? Genetics? Stress? Environmental factors? Why vaccines in particular?

Are you next going to try to blame the Haitan earthquake on vaccines? perhaps the pharma companies are employing techtonic warfare? In your eyes everything is attributable to vaccinations so I would respectfully suggest that you have a vendetta.

# 99

Posted: 04/02/2010 01:59

In my opinion, to say that the MMR vaccine is safe for everyone IS A LIE.

Why have we got over 15,000 people diagnosed with Crohn's

disease and Ulcerative colitis most of those diagnosed are young

people some are children under 15 years of age most of the people are

diagnosed between the age of 15-25.

# 98

Posted: 22/08/2009 09:29

In the USA, the parents of 5000 children are attempting to prove their child's Autism was causeed by MMR vaccine, however the recently lost a test case. In summary the judges said, ".... the families of Colten Snyder and Michelle Cedillo had presented no credible evidence that vaccination had caused him to develop autism". The decisions completely debunked the alleged vaccine/autism connection and implied that the doctors who promote them are acting unethically.

# 97

Posted: 17/08/2009 16:18

FYI the following compares the serious adverse effects of the disease in question versus the serious adverse effects of the MMR Vaccine:

1.Febrile convulsions (fits that can occur when a child has a high fever).

- Children affected after the natural disease = 1 in 200

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 1 in 1000

2. Meningitis (inflammation of the lining of the brain) and encephalitis (inflammation of the brain)

- Children affected after the natural disease = 1 in 1000 for measles, mumps, encephalitis. 1 in 2000 for mumps, meningitis and 1 in 6000 for rubella encephalitis

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = less than 1 in 1 million

3. ITP (idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura - conditions affecting blood clotting)

- Children affected after the natural disease = 1 in 3000 for rubella and 1 in 6000 for measles

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 1 in 22 000

4. Severe allergic response (anaphylaxis)

- Children affected after the natural disease = N/A

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 1 in 100 000

5. SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis) - a delayed complication that can cause brain damage and death

- Children affected by the natutal disease = 1 in 8000 (for those under two who contract the disease)

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 0

6. Death

- Children affected by the natural disease = 1 in 2500 to 1 in 5000

# 96

Posted: 16/08/2009 19:39

I am not convinced by the autism connection. can anyone enlighten me, a mother i met recently did not give her kids MMR because of a link with cancer.

# 95

Posted: 16/08/2008 20:33

mmr is not safe, some kids that have gotten this injection have got autism, but we all cant be fully sure, as a child can be born with it too. we have a son who has aspergers and we were told that he was born with it, so no one can be fully certain that the mmr is to blame.

# 94

Posted: 12/06/2008 21:45

After years of insisting there is no evidence to link vaccines with the onset of autism spectrum disorder (ASD), the US government has quietly conceded a vaccine-autism case in the Court of Federal Claims.

From the Huffington Post, February 25, 2008:

The unprecedented concession was filed on November 9, and sealed to protect the plaintiff's identify. It was obtained through individuals unrelated to the case.

# 93

Posted: 22/07/2007 01:19

Please type the following into google and
do a search. BBC Panorama MMR Every
parents choice Feb 3, 2002 Click on to
transcript See what Dr. Wakefield has to say re: children with allergies and a strong family history of autoimmune
disease.

# 92

Posted: 26/02/2007 23:55

Bill,
You say
"People will claim that their child started displaying evidence that they were Autistic after receiving MMR when in fact it was months later that they noticed things were not going as they should."

Where do you get your evidence to state that?
You couldn't possibly have evidence to support that made-up claim.

Secondly, if all the evidence you have read leads you to think there is a genetic component then why is there such a rise in Autism?
When did this genetic element come into play to cause such a rise in autism?

# 91

Posted: 20/02/2007 18:34

Sorry but Rosarie is completely wrong and illogical on a number of fronts.

How did she calculate the .000001%? You can’t just make up statistics.

What evidence have we that this anecdotal story is true? People tell lies, they exaggerate, they have faulty memories, they “remember” in retrospect differently when there are circumstances that demand it. There is abundant evidence that this is true. People will claim that their child started displaying evidence that they were Autistic after receiving MMR when in fact it was months later that they noticed things were not going as they should.

Studies involving hundreds of thousands of children show that there CANNOT BE significant correlation between MMR and Autism. NO study shows a correlation of any description. Even if there is a chance that MMR can cause Autism that is so remote that it cannot be detected, that doesn’t mean that such a cause exists. If there is no evidence that something does not exist they you cannot logically believe it does. That MMR causes Autism is a myth started by un-professional, corrupt and dishonest people. It was spread by non medical, non-scientifically trained and lazy journalists. That is why we are even having this discussion.

All the evidence that I have read about Autism seems to indicate a strong genetic basis so there may be nothing that anyone can do until a solution exists for genetic engineering of children or the detection of parents at risk.

The most important point is that you MUST compare the not known/unproven/risks of vaccination against the known risks of the diseases that it prevents. To put it bluntly you are better off vaccinating your children with the almost zero risk against the quite considerable risk of sterility, deformity and death that those diseases cause. Anything else is parental neglect.

We have been discussing this thread since November 2003 and since then ALL evidence that has emerged supports the position that MMR has no connection with Autism whatsoever.

# 90

Posted: 19/02/2007 13:59

Hear Hear Rosarie,
Totally agree with you, 100%.
You hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned.

# 89

Posted: 18/02/2007 10:19

I think everybody\'s opinion is valid for their own set of circumstances and that maybe if some people out there had a perfectly normal child in every way who reacted badly to the MMR vaccine and spent the rest of the day crying and then wouldnt get out of bed for weeks following this and their whole demeanour and personality changed and then was diagnosed as being autistic even though they were ahead of \"normal\" development for a child of 13 months previous to receiving the vaccine i think mabe they would get off their high horse and admit that even a .000001% chance of a correllation between MMR and autism is just too much of a risk to take with the health of a child. what if it was your child??

# 88

Posted: 06/02/2006 12:36

Before I read it let me state that the Mail is part of the gutter press, just the middle class version.

# 87

Posted: 06/02/2006 10:21

Bill & Sam, please read this report in yesterday's Mail On Sunday: http://tinyurl.com/b78rz "Former science chief: 'MMR fears coming true'." And then tell us how there could ever be public confidence in MMR.

# 86

Posted: 13/11/2005 23:54

mairead. you said above ''There are 1,000 sets of parents
in Britain who believe their
children were brain damaged with
the MMR VACCINE'' I think that is probably genetics lol.
William is absolutly right people do not understand risk. People are afriad of what the do not understand or/and what they cannot control.
If you don't like Lead/mercury/Cadmium/Uranium etc entering you cells in very small quanties then I'm sorry to inform you that you can't avoid them. You are made of radioactive particles.

# 85

Posted: 13/11/2005 12:05

The following link is to an article on the MMR/Autism "debate" and the scandal that is the British gutter press, part of which still refuses to apologise for the damage they did in promoting the non existant link. As I have asked him many times, does Joe now accept MMR does not cause Autism? http://www.irishhealth.com/discussion/message.html?dis=3&topic=3188

# 84

Posted: 10/07/2005 00:33

What's this, spread a ridiculous rumour week?

# 83

Posted: 09/07/2005 02:19

MMR Vaccine contains human aborted
fetal tissue and bovine ingredients
i.e. bovine serum derived from a
calf and hydrolyzed gelatine derived from selected calf skins
cattle skins and pork skins.

Maybe we should be looking at this
vaccine regarding CJD in young
people.

The oral polio also contained
bovine ingredients.

# 82

Posted: 20/09/2004 00:28

Say no to mandatory vaccinations
for children.

There should be an independent
enquiry into the huge increase in
children who have been diagnosed
with a chronic disease i.e. autism,
inflammatory bowel disease, insulin
dependent diabetes ,asthma ADHD
arthritis etc etc.

I believe all are side effects of vaccinations.

# 81

Posted: 12/07/2004 10:06

The Guardian reported last Thursday: "Researchers to study link between autism and MMR". The UK's Medical Research Council has awarded £400,000 to a team of researchers to investigate the development of autism and possible links with MMR jabs, problems in childbirth and a range of other factors. Of course the Irish authorities won't wait for the results of the British study. (Anyway, we all know the results in advance, don't we?) Fergal Bowers reported on this website yesterday (www.irishhealth.com/index.html?level=4&id=6099) that the National Disease Surveillance Centre now wants to "Link child benefits to vaccination... The NDSC report says that monetary incentives for parents to have their child vaccinated, including links to social welfare payments, food vouchers and lottery tickers have been shown to work." Even though the NDSC people also say that "it is thought that an uncertainty about the safety of the MMR vaccine among those responsible for the administration of the vaccine has contributed to the low uptake." Very reassuring, isn't it? I must point out that there are SO many things wrong with vaccines, from unwanted side-effects (with ALL vaccines) to errors in production and distribution. I also glean from Nature magazine (15 July 1999) that "the BCG vaccine is not very effective." And consider this: Nature reported last month (June 22nd) that "Vaccines may increase virulence." This was in relation to malaria vaccines, but who's to say that other vaccines are not increasing virulence? The same magazine reported on 13 December 2001 that "Inadequate vaccines can encourage the emergence of nastier bugs, placing the unprotected at risk, a new mathematical model shows. The effect could undermine future vaccination programmes." The NDSC story suggests a concerted operation to soften public opposition to compulsory vaccination and prepare the way for the inevitable legal battle. Compulsory vaccination is clearly contrary to the Irish Constitution, but then so is fluoridation (the compulsory dosing of everyone with unmeasured amounts of a deadly poison -- contrary to all medical, scientific and ethical principles); and we've been fluoridated for the past 40 years, essentially because certain highly-placed public health doctors won't face up to reality (not to mention their Hippocratic oath). So we must expect the medical people to try to push through the agenda of the vaccine manufacturers no matter what. Money talks, and not just among the pharmaceutical companies and their agents. Financial incentives such as welfare payments, food vouchers & lotto tickets will "work" with some of the many poverty-stricken Irish parents. This sort of approach by the so-called guardians of public health is the lowest of the low. Soon they'll be denouncing unvaccinated children and their parents as "threats to public health" and calling for sterner measures. The NDSC people state coyly: "It is proposed that in Ireland, child benefit payments are linked to vaccination status..." The question is: Will Irish parents lose their right to decide what substances can be injected into their children's bodies? Do we, as parents, guardians, consumers, victims, or just thinking people, allow this to happen? Expect more pro-MMR propaganda on this web page as well as everywhere else...

# 80

Posted: 03/07/2004 13:45

I agree with Joe Posted 29/5/2004

People need to educate themselves
regarding vaccine ingredients and
side effects.

I am afraid the Dept. of Health
and your G.P. are not filling you
in with this information.

Try looking up a website called
Parents of Vaccine Damaged Children

# 79

Posted: 02/07/2004 00:35

Next time we have report from the
media re: measles outbreak, can
you please balance the report by
telling parents that there were
one hundred and twenty three chil-dren in Ireland under the age of
fifteen in 2003 diagnosed with what
was known as a rare disease i.e
Crohn's disease and Ulcerative
colitis.

Both of these inflammatory bowel
diseases are mentioned in the Lancet 1995 re; MMR VACCINE.

In the British Nursing News Online
2003 there is a very worrying
article by a scientist re; a 300%
increase in Crohn's disease in
young people in the last twenty
years.

It is also very worrying that bovine ingredients i.e. bovine serum and hydrolyzed gelatine are
components in the MMR VACCINE even
when mad cow disease was rife in
the 1990's.

There is also a CJD WARNING ON
SOME OF THE MMR MANUFACTURES DATA.

# 78

Posted: 29/06/2004 11:07

Those with longer memories will recall, as children, the people of their parents'and grandparents' generations with a withered arm or leg, with brain damage from a "fever" or the regular gaps in families of the brothers and sisters who died in childhood. People forget how, pre-paracetamol, you waited for a fever to break. If it didn't, the child died. Repeat, the child died, of something as pathetic as a high temperature. People forget the deaths from whooping cough, TB, measles, scarlet fever. In 1950, the under 5 mortality rate in Dublin was 20%. One in five children born in Dublin died before their fifth birthday. That is six children out of every junior infants class in the city. Think about this, and then turn around and say that vaccination is a conspiracy, is dangerous, is a matter of choice. Ask the mothers of those children what they would have chosen.

# 77

Posted: 23/06/2004 17:47

A doctor has written a book on MMR, called "MMR and Autism: What parents need to know" is published by Routledge, June 2004

An excellent review of this book can be read here.

http://www.spiked-online.com/articles/0000000CA59F.htm

# 76

Posted: 23/06/2004 10:28

Joe, who is opposed to all vaccination might be interested in this from the UK Indo 23-06-04 .... A serious outbreak of polio in Africa threatens to derail the campaign to eradicate the disease by the end of the year, the World Health Organisation (WHO) said yesterday.

A breakdown in a programme to mass-vaccinate children in Nigeria had led to polio being exported to countries as far away as Sudan in the east and Botswana in the south, the WHO said. The re-appearance of polio in Sudan is particularly worrying because the number of people displaced by two decades of civil war and living without sanitation provide an ideal breeding ground for the polio virus.

David Heymann, the WHO's representative for polio eradication, said the centre of the epidemic was Nigeria's northern state of Kano, where local religious leaders boycotted the oral polio vaccine last year after rumours that it was unsafe. Muslim clerics claimed that the vaccine was tainted and would make women sterile. The rumours said that the WHO's vaccination campaign was a plot to reduce the number of Muslims.

Dr Heymann said that 257 Nigerian children had been paralysed by the polio virus since vaccination was suspended at the end of last year, and many more had become carriers. Five times as many children in west and central Africa have been paralysed by polio so far this year as in the same period last year.

"There is no question that the virus is spreading at an alarming rate. The fact that Sudan is now re-infected is concrete evidence of the need to support a massive immunisation response right across west and central Africa," Dr Heymann said.

# 75

Posted: 09/06/2004 13:32

Daily Telegraph, I didn't want the MMR – and now my baby has measles By Claudia Winkleman, 5/06/2004 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/06/05/do0504.xml

"Another thing I thought I'd done properly was choosing not to give him the MMR jab. Like plenty of other first-time mothers, I did a lot of research and spoke to lots of clever doctors.

One man, Mike Coren, a leading paediatrician at St Mary's Hospital, told me that he should have the jab and that it would be plain stupid to give it a miss. Later, he telephoned me at home to reinforce the message and reassure me that the injections would be quick and painless.

Doctors, I thought - toeing the Government line, as usual. I proudly told other parents that I was waiting for Jake to reach 15 months before giving him separate shots. In the meantime, I patted myself on the back for using only natural remedies and boasted to anyone who would listen that he'd never taken antibiotics.

Then our local doctor got in on the act, sending round a leaflet about the dangers of not giving the MMR. I shrugged and told my friends: "Humph, that's just an old scaremongering tactic. Where would Jake pick up measles, mumps or rubella, anyway? He only goes to the park and, occasionally, to the zoo to stare at the baby otters. I'm having none of it."

Well, yesterday, Jake's temperature soared and about a thousand little red dots appeared all over his back and chest. The doctor says he's probably got measles. Jake tosses in his comfy cot and moans in his sleep. He's lost all interest in the cuddly bulldog. Yes, I'm a class-A idiot: my son is ill - and it's my fault."

# 74

Posted: 30/05/2004 19:31

Joe’s post is just a series of generalisations. “Good food” does not offer any protection against Measles, Mumps or Rubella. The fact the some children’s diets is very poor has nothing to do with medicine whatsoever. It has to do with the poor education of their parents in basic nutrition and perhaps the unfettered advertising of the junk food sellers. The people who eat the worst food in Ireland are the poor and least well educated. Thalidomide is actually safe *except* for pregnant women, in fact it is still proscribed for some ailments. The assertion that advances in medicines and their use as well as mass vaccination has not dramatically improved public health is literally absurd. The damage done by the medical profession is a tiny fraction of the good done. In spite of all that has been said over the last few months, does Joe still think that MMR may cause Autism?

# 73

Posted: 29/05/2004 12:05

The relentless pro-MMR propaganda that you see on this page (and in so many other forums) is part of the epidemic spread of misinformation throughout the medical community. And not just about MMR, or vaccination in general, but about almost every "public health measure", including fluoridation, chlorination and pasteurization. Anyone who takes the trouble to explore the scientific literature about vaccination will get a very different picture from what is put forward by the senior medical figures who have shamelessly (and shamefully) been advocating forced vaccination of children. How many Irish parents are fully informed about the side-effects of the vaccine when asked to give their consent? Of course parents' opinions and feelings matter little to the pro-vaccination "experts". We should note that those experts are much the same "experts" who reassured us that Thalidomide was safe, that blood products were safe, that heterosexual sex was safe when AIDS was clearly rampant (early- to mid-1980s), etc., etc. Ivan Illich wrote in 1976 (Limits To Medicine): "Medical services have not been important in producing the changes in life expectancy that have occurred [since the 19th century]. A vast amount of contemporary clinical care is incidental to the curing of disease, but the damage done by medicine to the health of individuals and populations is very significant. These facts are obvious, well documented, and well repressed. ...The study of the evolution of disease patterns provides evidence that during the last century doctors have affected epidemics no more profoundly than did priests during earlier times." The pro-vaccination "experts" would have us believe that millions of years of human evolution in coping with childhood diseases count for nothing. The current media reports about food poverty in Ireland (see www.rte.ie/news/2004/0528/poverty.html) tell an important story. If only our doctors were as concerned about nutrition as they are about vaccination! Medical records (as well as common sense) tell us that if children are properly fed and cared for, they will not be in danger from diseases such as measles, mumps and rubella. For a more balanced view of vaccination, read: www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/vaccinations.htm

# 72

Posted: 26/05/2004 12:52

Also, in the Times recently it was reported that the new "epidemic" is the lack of vaccinated people. Vaccination is good and a requirement to sustain a healthy population.

# 71

Posted: 26/05/2004 07:29

Consumer Health Digest May 26, 2004 "IOM debunks alleged vaccine-autism link."

An Institute of Medicine (IOM) expert committee
has concluded that *neither thimerosal nor the
measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine are
associated with autism and that the hypotheses
connecting them are not worth further study*. The
committee report updates two IOM reports
published in 2001 that found no association but
recommended further research. Since that time,
five large epidemiologic studies conducted in the
United States, the United Kingdom, Denmark, and
Sweden have found no association between
thimerosal-containing vaccines and autism, and 14
large epidemiologic studies consistently showed
no association between the MMR vaccine and
autism.

# 70

Posted: 16/03/2004 08:28

It’s a bit of a co-incidence but yesterday I went to an Audiologist to have my hearing tested. I’ve never been happy that I could hear as well as I should. I have a reduced higher frequency range for my age. I asked the doctor why and she said “probably measles”. There was no MMR when I was a child.

# 69

Posted: 04/03/2004 09:18

10 of the original 13 authors of Wakefield's anti-MMR paper have publicly disassociated themselves from it, see http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=497648
This article is from today’s UK Independent which has been a supporter of Wakefield. As an aside the appalling one sided nature of their support has been so bad that it consigns this once great paper to the tabloid section.

# 68

Posted: 27/02/2004 13:40

Dr. Mike Fitzpatrick, who is writing a book on the MMR panic, will be on Tonight with Trevor McDonald, Friday 27 February at 8pm to discuss MMR and the continuing public distrust of the medical profession after the Lancet's discrediting of Dr. Wakefied.

# 67

Posted: 26/02/2004 11:29

Why get into an argument about which article to believe and not to believe the the integrity of journalism. Bottom line in the substantive issue is that vaccines should be used as widely as possible. The greatest (factual) evidence is the enormous reduction in deaths and debilitations from the illnesses that these vaccines prevent. Is there anything else to be said?!!!