Do you think it's right that pharmacists should question people before giving them codeine tablets?

# 27

Posted: 25/10/2010 15:06

buzz: I have to say I know a lot of people, myself and my father included, who have taken, or currently take, codeine-based drugs long-term with no issues. Obviously it depends on the strength you take, but I don't know of anyone who's ended up either physically or mentally addicted/dependant. I take codeine-based painkillers fairly frequently when needed (usually, to get me through work), and earlier this year I was taking them almost daily for a period of several months; but when I went on holiday I didn't need them as I was resting and relaxing, and so not in pain, so I didn't take them for about 3 weeks and suffered no physical or mental withdrawal symptoms.

Everyone is different of course but lots of things can be/are addictive, and it is up to the individual to make an informed choice. I do wonder how far one might take something like this: I work in a supermarket, should I start questioning customers who buy alcohol or cigarettes and warning them of the adverse effects?

I also think it's disgraceful that you were questioned when buying Feminax; no-one should have to try to justify their need for pain relief to a pharmacist IMO. I've had to explain why I need certain drugs a few times, and it can be a bit awkward having to explain that I have endometriosis to a complete stranger.

# 26

Posted: 22/10/2010 09:36

Hi Cynic from what my friend told me about his (very real) addiction was that it was more that he could not stand the withdrawl symptoms (as distinct from actively seeking out a "hit"). He had an injury (broken bone) and was taking solpadeine for the pain. After a number of weeks he came off the solpadeine because he no longer needed that level of analgesic...and found that the withdrawl symptoms were unbearable. It spiralled from there. I am not saying it was as clear cut as that, or that there were not other factors involved, but it can happen to ordinary people.

# 25

Posted: 21/10/2010 23:45

How anyone could become addicted to Codeine type drugs beats me, they must never suffer from constipation because if they did they would stay well clear of that type of drug at all costs. Codeine is a constituent in many antidiarroheals precisely because of that effect.

# 24

Posted: 21/10/2010 11:47

Excellent post in my opinion Buzz post. I agree - nothing wrong with asking a few question and I don't even mean in order to indentify habitual users but if soneone is siffering with a headache week after week with no known cause, advice may be welcome but really ANY pharmcist asking any female between 12 and 50-odd why she needs feminax is truley astoundingly ignorant of the basic facts whichevery woman, man and child over 12 is aware of. But for them to actually refuse it is grossly unprofessional, idocy and yes, possibly power triping.

# 23

Posted: 21/10/2010 09:20

Bonny there is nothing wrong with "asking people a few questions" and in fact if you read my previous posts I agree with the new legisaltion (and having seen a very good friend suffer through a codeine addiction I think I have a healthy perspective on the situation) however when a pharmacist actually REFUSES to sell a painkiller to a woman who is crippled with period pain then there is something wrong. I have no problem being questioned but part of a pharmacists job is to differentiate (to the best of their ability) between genuine customers and repeat consumers looking for a fix. I remember going into a pharmacy with my mother (who suffers from extreme back pain) and actually has a letter of recommendation from her doctor for nurofen plus and was interrogated in spite of this letter. We got talking to the pharmacist about the new legislation and he pointed out that before the legislation came in they were "selling 200 boxes of solpadeine a day" - my Mother politely pointed out that this was quite excessive and also she wasnt one of the customers availing of some of these boxes!

As I said before, legislation is fine, but taking the proverbial for the sake of a power trip is NOT.

# 22

Posted: 20/10/2010 22:12

I have already commented on this topic, but was while back, now I ask what harm is it for you pharmacist to ask few questions, regarding these tablets,im sure they are busy enough but its now part of their work, so if you need them you will get them.

I only wish that off licenses and shop did same and there would be no drinking or smoking among our under age teens.i just feel my pharmacist has do it.

# 21

Posted: 20/10/2010 14:44

"liase with a whole strata of medical professionals from juniors up to consultants to ensure patient safety and prevent fatalities from incorrect prescribing. They make i.v. chemotherapy drug regimens to save lives, they protect people from the likes of dr.shipman (a pharmacist was the person who reported him), they prevent medication overuse, underuse, incorrect dosing, save lives by giving correct advice to people and  catching doctors mistakes." Er sorry but that is just complete mumbo jumbo. I stand by what I said - any "health professional" who refuses to sell a painkiller to a woman having a period IS an idiot.  

"Ask yourself why 5 years of a very difficult degree, with some of the highest points needed to gain entry to these elite courses are necessary. " Sorry to burst your bubble here but we all know the points system is a reflection of AVAILABILITY of courses, not level of difficulty.

"Do you think its just to stick labels on boxes-get yourself educated and better informed before you insult people who are in the highest echelons of education." The higher echelons of education? What is wrong with you? Are you one of the many suffering from a dose of academic snobbery? I will have you know that I am highly educated too (though it may shock you to hear that there are degrees other than pharmacy) so dont you play that card with me.

"Watch a pharmacist at work in a busy branch the next time you are in an observant mood. Watch what they juggle when they are not 'sticking labels on boxes" Er sorry YOU are the one who coined that phrase so stop throwing it back at me. And for your information there are plenty of professionals who multi-task.

" Now you have the idea. I know coz my parents did it for a living, and so did my grandparents." Ah well now we see where your bias comes from. Listen to me, I did not for one moment try to say that ALL pharmacists are bad...YOU on the other hand seem bent on telling me that ALL pharmacists are good, and this is not true either. Now are you going to comment on the idiocy that resulted in a woman being refused a painkiller for her perio?

"I think your being pedantic and idiotic so time to get informed" I think you are being inflammatory, over sensitive, skirting the issue, and far too worked up to have a sensible discussion.

Pharmacists are the professions that help develop medicines at industrial level,

Sorry but I actually worked with pharmacists at the industrial level and these are (admittedly brilliant) but different to those in an actual pharmacy environment. Pharmacists in actual practices do not "develop" drugs.

# 20

Posted: 20/10/2010 11:10

to buzz,

your comment  "I have come across some really idiotic, pedantic and obviously power hungry pharmacists in the last few weeks regarding this. I suppose given that they had very little power except dispensing before, they are delighted with this new little nugget of seniority" is hilarious and just goes to show your ignorance of what a pharmacists job is. They liase with a whole strata of medical professionals from juniors up to consultants to ensure patient safety and prevent fatalities from incorrect prescribing. They make i.v. chemotherapy drug regimens to save lives, they protect people from the likes of dr.shipman (a pharmacist was the person who reported him), they prevent medication overuse, underuse, incorrect dosing, save lives by giving correct advice to people and  catching doctors mistakes. Your 'public' perception of what they do is exactly that, just public, not professional. Ask any doctor who works alongside pharmacists, what they 'see' them do esp in a hospital setting. I could name a dozen doctors who dont do ward rounds until the pharmacist is present so get a sense of respect for these people who do a brilliant job, keeping people safe. "Powers of dispensing", thats why 'technicians' are employed-thats what they do, dispense. Technicians know nothing about medicines, thats where the pharmacist is in a league of their own as they know everything about medicines-thats their area of expertise. Ask yourself why 5 years of a very difficult degree, with some of the highest points needed to gain entry to these elite courses are necessary. Do you think its just to stick labels on boxes-get yourself educated and better informed before you insult people who are in the highest echelons of education. I dont think 'idiotic' is a word you put in the same sentence as a pharmacist. Watch a pharmacist at work in a busy branch the next time you are in an observant mood. Watch what they juggle when they are not 'sticking labels on boxes'-who is that they are talking to on the phone,watch how many calls they take from doctors asking for medical advice, listen to their medical knowledge of a broad spectrm of ailments/conditions/medicines, watch them multitask, counselling patients and family members who have just lost a family member, all while running a business with 5-8 people to manage. They are some of the most dexterious people and some of the sharpest intellects.  Now you have the idea. I know coz my parents did it for a living, and so did my grandparents. I am lecturing medical and pharmacy students now and i know the depth of medical detail these pharmacists undertake so its a shame the 'public' like you dont understand that too and its a case of 'you see what they want to see' and dont understand a persons profession. I think your being pedantic and idiotic so time to get informed. Pharmacists are the professions that help develop medicines at industrial level, deliver a' safety net' at hospital and community level and a personal professional service that is free and accessible to the likes of you that have little regard for them.

# 19

Posted: 20/10/2010 09:42

Hi teacaf, the vast majority of pharmacies will have a small room or side area for you to discuss your concerns / condition in private. Simply state, when asked,  - I've no problem discussing this with you in private.

# 18

Posted: 20/10/2010 09:14

Have to say, I was all for the new legislation when it first came out, but having experienced (and having heard of other people experiencing) jumped up pharmacists on little power trips I am sick to death of it. I have actually been quizzed as to why I am buying feminax!!! So I had to inform them that no I was not a codeine addict but shock horror...a woman having her period! Apparently this is a crime too :) Also, I would be curious to know how many people have been sold a box of 24 nurofen plus...I have yet to come across ANYONE who has been sold more than a 12 pack...so why do they still MAKE 24 packs? I have to say, I have come across some really idiotic, pedantic and obviously power hungry pharmacists in the last few weeks regarding this. I suppose given that they had very little power except dispensing before, they are delighted with this new little nugget of seniority.

# 17

Posted: 19/10/2010 23:24

I find it very embarressing to have to discuss my medical health in a pharmacy full of strangers,just to be able to buy a 12 pack of solphadine, its absolutly ridicilous,a docotor will prescribe a stronger pain reliever if required,and not a question asked in pharmacy, but if you want to buy a packet of codeine based meds, you are given the Spanish inquisition, more people need to use coedine now, than ever before, with dental problems, as we no longer have access to our dentists, under medical card/prsi, so come on give us a break, some people have to use this product from time to time.

# 16

Posted: 15/09/2010 12:09

Pointless as it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

# 15

Posted: 31/08/2010 23:15

Most pharmacists ask a few questions when giving out stronger meds; I take a drug called paramol (paracetamol with dihydrocodeine) as well as cocodamol and they will usually ask if I'm asthmatic, have any allergies, and will also inform you that you should seek medical advice if you need to take them for longer than a few days, as they can be addictive. I don't really have an issue with this; I think people need to be made aware of what they're taking before they take it.

But, I'm not sure that this will stop anyone with an addiction from buying the drugs; people will just 'learn' the right answers. I also disagree that these meds should be made prescription-only; higher-dose codeine containing tablets are already only available on prescription, the ones you can buy OTC are not nearly as strong (the ones I take have something like 5mg codeine in them; I know people regularly taking 50mg of codeine). The fact they can be addictive is not an argument IMO; alcohol is addictive; cigarettes are addictive; some people get addicted to high-sugar foods; should we outlaw all these things too?

People do need to take responsibility for their own health. I've been taking painkillers containing codeine since February, to help with severe chronic pelvic and back pain caused by endometriosis; without these painkillers I cannot work. But, despite taking them long-term I'm not at all addicted (I only take them when I need them; eg I recently went on holiday and so didn't need them, but because my job is physical, I need them at work); for me they're the best option as they help the pain a bit, and a preferable to stronger prescription-only meds, which can cause side effects and awful drowsiness, which as a student and commuter, I can't risk. If I had to get my painkillers on prescription it would cost me more money that I don't have, and would be inconvenient; my pain is unpredictable and I might go 2 weeks pain-free, then get through 24 pks in 3 days, and so would risk running out during these periods.

There will always be people who get addicted to things and ultimately there has to be a balance; I think questioning/warning people is fine (this wouldn't bother me in the slightest; in fact I think it's very important) but suggesting they should be prescription-only is going too far

# 14

Posted: 30/08/2010 11:39

anytime I've bought non-prescription meds in a pharmacy the pharmacist serving me has always asked question like have I taken the meds before or am I taking anything else etc. I really don't see how this is any different. it probably won't make much difference somebody addicted to codeine but it might help prevent new addictions forming, I'm sure there's plenty of people out there that are unaware of the addictive properties of codeine and are taking codeine tablets for minor things like hangovers.

# 13

Posted: 30/08/2010 09:25

Actually Fedup if you read my previous posts you would see that I DO know what an addiction is, a very close friend suffered with a codeine addiction for years. I never claimed that this move would wipe out addictions (I dont think anyone is that naiive) all I said was if you are using codeine properly, you have nothing to worry about. There are far greater problems to be getting ourselves wrapped up in than whether or not we have to tell a pharmacist what we want a habit forming drug for.

# 12

Posted: 29/08/2010 22:02

yes Buzz mild inconvenience, but to what avail, it won't stop one person with an addiction from getting it, not one. Do you really think this will stop someone with the motivation of an addiction; if you do then you really do not have any concept of what addiction is?

I don't feel that they should be made available on prescription, which by the way I feel this is the next step. In order words making more work for the boys, you can't beat the old boys’ network, to keep all the lads in work. I can't afford to go to the gp as it is neither do I by the way indulge in taking codeine or any medication if I can help it. Even with quite a painful condition, which is prone to flare ups, I tend to manage without many painkillers. But there are those who do need painkillers of this strength from time to time and they shouldn't have to pay out €60+ to get an effective pain killer, it is very easy to bandy about the P word. I would expect that from a pharmacist of course, not known to worry about our financial health, which has serious implications for our physical health too. It certainly has for me, I can't and don't go to my gp, despite a condition which does require painkillers, I have to manage, I have no choice. But luckily I have the ability to manage my condition, without much medication, I have been prescribed some very serious painkillers over the years, with side effects I didn't like and a cost I couldn't manage so I've learnt to cope, not always easy but if you don't have the cash, what can you do!!!

Please think about people like me when you make the "cosy" suggestion of put it on prescription. It will have awful implications for many like me. GPs would love to have all medications on prescription. Look you can’t bleed us anymore. I’m sick and tired of being bleed at every opportunity, but I’ve nothing left.

# 11

Posted: 28/08/2010 19:53

yes im going with pumper on this one, as would be embarressing for him/her and buyer, GP perscription safest,

# 10

Posted: 27/08/2010 22:31

I know someone who visited 9 Chemist shops in one day and got 9 boxes of Solpadeine, as she is addicted to them. No problem in any shop. In fact in one pharmacy in Dublin the staff were so busy they just handed them over no questions asked. It is a ridiculous rule. If someone REALLY wants to get codeine products all they have to do is be a good actor and give the correct answers. A totally idiotic idea questioning people like this.

# 9

Posted: 27/08/2010 14:49

Northman your point is silly to say the least - why would policemen have any juristiction to ban the sale of codeine or interrogate customers? It's a LEGAL drug!

As I have said already, if your reasons for availing of codeine are bona fide, and limited to normal use, you have nothing to worry about except mild inconvenience.

# 8

Posted: 27/08/2010 10:46

Pumper is correct.  Make it available on prescription only, problem solved.

# 7

Posted: 26/08/2010 23:48

Pharmicists are not policemen, so its not their business

# 6

Posted: 26/08/2010 23:20

I don't see the point of it really aside from wasting time. Do you think anyone with an issue with codeine will actually tell the truth? It may make getting codeine a bit more difficult for them, but not a huge amount. I'm so sick and tired of the state treating me like a six year old. If this actually helped anyone I'd maybe see some point in it, but as it stands, it truely is pointless. Can we actually have the powers that be in our health care services, actually spend their time making our service work better, not coming up with a silly justification for their huge salaries. Will someone please tell me how this will actually help anyone

# 5

Posted: 26/08/2010 23:11

It is always prudent for the pharmacists to question certain medicines

# 4

Posted: 26/08/2010 20:38

Yes i certainly would agree with Pharmacists right to Question people before giving them Codeine Tablets or any over the counter Medications , as we have young people buying drugs over the counter and experimenting and mixing them with Alcohol and this creates Volience in young people who then go on to much more Dangerious Drugs and Commit Crime to pay for there habits, and we as tax Payers in this Country have to pick up the Tab on Medical treatment and the cost of treating those people in our jails,

Had it not being drug users filling up our Prison Cells then the more serious Criminals would be kept locked up for longer periods of time and there would be No Revolvind Door Syndrome,

Gerry.

# 3

Posted: 26/08/2010 20:12

As a pharmacist I find the new regulations very intrusive - I feel that being obliged to question clients annoys more than it helps.  It is my opinion that if codeine is perceived as being such a risk that its supply should be made prescription only.

# 2

Posted: 26/08/2010 19:53

Coedine is highly addictive and should not be used willy nilly. Pharmacists should, of course, advise people and question them if need be. otherwise they would be failing in their responsibilities.

# 1

Posted: 26/08/2010 18:17

I agree with questioning but don't believe it will stop people taking them too much as if they're not served them in one pharmacist they will still get them in another. They're going to get used to the questions that's asked and just give the pharmacist the answer they want to hear to obtain what they want. It might wake people up to how addictive codine is though and they may decide to opt for an alternative.