After five years in charge, how would you rate Mary Harney's record as Health Minister?

# 198

Posted: 17/12/2009 08:11

Well said Bruised. It is little comfort to me to know that my family will sell my home at a very reduced price to pay 3/20 or whatever to Mary harney when I die while I still cannot access the essential services I need NOW. She has only eyes and ears for the rich friends and the events of the past 18 months have not got through to her yet and likely wont as she is cossetted from all that.

# 197

Posted: 16/12/2009 01:43

So now the discussion is down to how "lucky" we are and how grateful we ought to be that we can pay 3/20 of the cost of care when we need it in our old age. Pay again for something we have already paid in taxes, PRSI, etc!

So the people waiting for surgery while their tumors grow should be thankful for this? People diagnosed with malignant tumors wait for months for a bed thanks to Mary Harney's philosophy of putting economy before health care. She closes wards while people are sleeping on chairs and trolleys. So it is unfair to criticise our health service as long as we can pay 3/20 of our costs when and if we ever manage to get a place in a caring centre in our autumn years? I guess the HSE need the money to finance Mary Harney's junkets abroad.

Get a life! Get real! Get a sense of proportion... why don't you apply for a job as spin doctor for the HSE and Mary Harney! Both the HSE and Mary need one.

# 196

Posted: 11/12/2009 16:58

hi coco,

who said anything about "uncaring families"?  Not me. I gave up my career to care for (ultimately) four relatives, two of them (my parents) having since died, one currently dying, and one who will now benefit Harney's Fair Deal scheme. The scheme provides that no one will ever have their home ever again "for cash to pay upfront" & farms such as you mention are specifically excluded as well. I understand why you may be not be au fait with the detail of the scheme, however I certainly am, & it is an exceptional piece of legislation.  I doubt there is any scheme as fair or generous anywhere in the world.  All I am saying is that the costs the State (rightly) takes on are very high, and what is asked of the resident (and their inheriting relatives) is comaritively very small.  I am not questioning people's "caring", far from it.  But when we truly care for others we show that by willingly making sacrifices.  The Fair Deal scheme allows us to care for our relatives beyond the limits of our own abilities (ie) when they require institutional care, and allows us to this precsely because the State asks us only to pay what is reasonable.  When we resist that, we say to our relatives, "I care, but not if it costs me".

To Anonymous, same comment - again I am in agreement with all you say, I never said any different. As you say, The costs the "state" takes on are simply what an elderly person is ENTITLED to after years of hard work and paying taxes" - that's precisely why the State provides virtually the totality of these costs now under Harney's scheme.  The scheme is well worth a detailed study, and will surrise you how egalitarian it is.  Remember there are planty of wealthy opportunists in Ireland who are on the make at taxpayers expense.  Schemes like this ensure they pay for what they can afford, while the State pays for those that can't.

three kinds of disciples, those who impart Zen; those who tend the altars & temples; those who are the rice-bags & clothes-hangers

# 195

Posted: 11/12/2009 08:19

kbn, have you ever thought perhaps that for those in nursing hime care, their relatives already spent years looking after them until it was no longer poissible for them to cope or where their elderly relative simply needed the expert care and 24 hour nursing that only a residential facility could provide??? That ever occur to you at all? The costs the "state" takes on are simply what an elderly person is ENTITLED to after years of hard work and paying taxes.

# 194

Posted: 10/12/2009 20:01

Hi KBN,

Again you take a simplistic attitude to everything! I am afraid things are not as black & white as you suggest. Many people finish up in resedential care because of pure medical necessity in many of these cases it has nothing to do with a "uncaring family".  Severe strokes are one example where people require specialist care that couldn't possibly be provided at home. I am not totally familiar with the fair deal package as I have no vested interest in it but it could pose problems where ones assets are a farm or such where the family might be forced to sell if they couldn't come up with the cash. Many people are still sentemential about their childhood home though it may be hard to believe in the wake of the celtic tiger house jumping & may have to sell same if they havent cash to pay upfront. I do feel that people should make a contribution to their care when they can afford it. I wonder is there anything built in to the legislation to prevent parents except the fear of the county home from singing over their estates to their familys before they become needy & thus avoid the fair deal levy.

# 193

Posted: 10/12/2009 14:35

Anonymous, I think you misunderstand.

Oviously people who look after their parents do not lose any of their (arguably enough well-earned) inheritance.  I am only talking about people whose relatives are being cared for, not by them, but by the State (in a Nursing Home) - under Harney's Fair Deal scheme the State asks relatives to contribute (a maximum of) 3/20th of what might otherwise be their inheritance, and I am just saying it is pretty generous to ask so little (comared to the - unlimited - lifetime costs the State takes on, and pretty mean to resist even this partial contribution.  That's why I ask "anony" what are the horrendous "consequences for families" he/she talks about.  That they'll only get 17/20ths of their (in this case most certainly unearned) inheritance?  Answer please?

kb

three kinds of disciples, those who impart Zen; those who tend the altars & temples; those who are the rice-bags & clothes-hangers

# 192

Posted: 10/12/2009 14:27

actually KBN ,pathetic and corrupted politicians [both morally and financial] have blighted this little country of ours.egs the the cancellation of cervical cancer schemes and ray bourke and co.

"an excuse is not the reason for saying why"

# 191

Posted: 09/12/2009 18:59

kbn - Not with me it doesn't. Every day I am haunted by the results of her policies. You will never change my mind.

# 190

Posted: 09/12/2009 15:46

Kbn, given that young parents struggle to raise their own children, pay for childcare, work, undertake log commutes and pay a mortgage as well as try and have some family life PLUS look after elderly parents, I wouldn't say any of an inheritance in that case is "unearned". Anyone in this position can testify to that. We already pay more than most European countries into the healthcare budget through tax, PRSI and health levies. Those with private insurance pay a fourth time.

# 189

Posted: 08/12/2009 20:05

So - there is life on earth after all!  Maura, you are so right about Harney, but you will get a roasting on this site for saying it, like I did.

As for "anomy" , what on earth "consequences for families" are you talking about?  You mean they might only get their hands on 17/20ths of their inheritance instead of ALL of it.  3/20ths of an unearned inheritance is a tiny price to pay while the State pays the vast bulk of our relatives' care costs under this Fair Deal scheme.  As I said some months ago (#77)...

In defence of Mary Harney (even if I'm the only one), she does, as you say, want everyone in the state to pay health insurance, & I believe she is wise to do so. But this doesn't in any way mean she wants to exclude anyone whatsoever - under her proposals no-one would be excluded, as those persons unable to pay their own premiums would have them paid by the state. As quite rightly pointed by "coco", this gives EQUAL access for everyone to equally high quality (properly paid for) health services, and an end to all this private/public rubbish. That is what Harney is all about, despite her bad press on boards like this. You'll see exactly the same progressive & egalitarian thinking in her "Fair Deal" Nursing Homes Payment legislation where she cuts through the whole Private v. Public thing that has blighted this little outcrop of a country so long, & commits totally to treating everyone equally & fairly. Had this legislation not been (cynically) stalled & blocked for so many years to date, hundreds of nursing home residents & their families would have been saved from penury & even the loss of their homes, but at least she has finally got it through which is a tribute to her courage & persistence (qualities notably scarce in the Dail) & hopefully it will restore some of her battered reputation!

kb

three kinds of disciples, those who impart Zen; those who tend the altars & temples; those who are the rice-bags & clothes-hangers

# 188

Posted: 08/12/2009 17:38

toby2,

Sorry, been under the doc.  You raise an interesting point....which I doubt we'll get an honest answer to; how much money does the 'lotto' co. get....how much are the CEO's etc paid....who, in the govt, if any, are 'connected' to it ?  If it's a totally private company....we should be entitled to know who 'gains' from it....or is it like the toll bridges fiasco....we'll never know 'cause they're scared we'll find out what a corrupt 'shower' are in power??

I only mention 'cause...can you imagine how much money could be put into health etc....?  Boggles the mind does'nt it?

Any one out there know who gains from the 'toll' bridges or the lottery ??

# 187

Posted: 07/12/2009 15:02

Get rid of her

this goverement are allowing the national lottery now take place every night there is a ticket to be got, the worse off are all hoping for the big win, take the money and put it into where the money comes from,the schools the welfare and hospitals. I still have not seen anything done about the racing community where they are tax free on earning on coverings in stud farms, this community has been privilaged for so long , but of course if you look at the hospitality sweets at the races you would understand, 

Let Mary Harney demand that of all this is directed to the hospitals, also wastage in hospitals and the petty teft cost this country millions.

Schools  why does Batt O keefe have to travel abroad when he  is education minister more Junkets and expenses.This country is heading for anarchy Could mary harney or mary hanifan live on 208.90 per week

toby2

# 186

Posted: 06/12/2009 22:01

I cannot understand how Mary survives its only because she did a deal with Cowen and he needed the numbers to stay in goverment, unfortunately we are very short of people with leadeship qualities and we as a nation let them off the hook all the time. However maybe we will take action next time and go to the poles in great numbers.

Mary Harney would step down if she had any principals and really cared about the people of this coun try, but its really about the big salary/expenses and the there is the poension. Why would she step down?

Also the Greens have sold out to stay in goverment, so who really has the nations interest at heart.

Toby2    

# 185

Posted: 05/12/2009 13:38

Maura,

I can understand your gratitude for the good treatment your mother got in the last few weeks of her life.

However, you are just 1 of the tiny 3% who think Mary Harney has done an excellent job. Sorry you are tired of hearing people criticise Mary Harney, but people will complain until they get a decent service. Mary Harney has been a disaster as far as the health service is. It's a fact. Live with it!

I have a neighbour who waited almost 4 months for a cancer operation while the tumor expanded. She has private health insurance but it made no difference. This was due to lack of a hospital bed because of wards closed by Mary Harney and her "experts". Economics take priority over health.                                The people of Donegal and Monaghan (to name just 2 places) who have to travel several hours each way for treatment have a different viewpoint about Mary Harney's and Dr Drumm's excellence. None of them are included in the above 3%.

"Excellent" is a word used by politicians to describe what they are doing. It has no meaning whatsoever when it's applied to our so-called Health Service.

# 184

Posted: 05/12/2009 05:57

Mary Harney should step down, the HSE is a disgrace, the wastage is costing millions and the worse off have to pay the price.

# 183

Posted: 29/11/2009 16:47

Maura, do you really understand how the Fair Deal works? You may need to think of the consequences for the families of those who use it in the future.

# 182

Posted: 28/11/2009 13:55

From personal experience I feel Mary Harney's record as Health Minster is excellent.  She brought in this year the fair deal for nursing homes which was long over due.  Unfortunately before I could avail of it my mother passed away.  She was cared for in James Hospital for ten weeks, then she got into a wonderful home for two weeks.  This was all paid for by the HSE.  I am sick and tired of people slagging off the government, in my view they are doing their best including Mary Harney in the present circumstances.

# 181

Posted: 27/11/2009 14:03

Actually Admiral, it most certainly is not. You climaed that GPs provide a 24 X 7 service and then you contradicted that. They most emphatically don't provide a 24 X 7 service and the facts back that up

I don't think anyone is suggsting that each and every GP works 24 hours a day every day. Obviously an impossibility.

I never mentioned sky / bbc etc at all.

I have no problem other GPs being rostered on when daytime G[Ps are off. In fact I think a rota system within a clinic of GPs just like nurses have a shift system would be an excellent idea to put in place. No I don't have to pay someone else when I am off becuase I CHOSE not to go into a profession which requires it and I am not self-employed. So when I am on leave, my other colleagues have to do my work as well as their own and I fulfill that funtion when thy are on leave.

I have the correct story thnak you, DIRECTLY from the people who have experienced them bt perhaps there FACTS spoil your posts.

# 180

Posted: 26/11/2009 20:01

Hello again anonymous.

My point is backed up by your own. No GPs, male or female, should have their normal family life threatened by their job.

The ambulance service is a 24 hour one; there is more than one driver.

The fire brigade has a 24 hour commitment, there is more than one driver.

The life boat has a 24 hour commitment, there is more than one skipper.

Nurses have a 24 hour commitment, nurses have shifts.

Trains run for a lot of the day, (not as many hours as GPs); there is more than one driver.

RTE and Sky news and the BBC run for 24 hours a day. There are many presenters and these are valid 24/7 services so are you saying these are not 24 hour services?

GMS GPs have a 24 hour commitment.They pay other doctors to allow them to sleep at night and to take holiday relief, maternity and sick leave. Do you have to pay holday relief for whoever fills in for you when you are off?

As to your families experience, I suggest, once more, that you get the correct story from the fully audited annual reports which are readily availlable, or perhaps you would not like to spoil your post with the facts?

# 179

Posted: 24/11/2009 16:14

Actually Admiral, it is she not he. Do you think that the other 70% of GPs - i.ee. male GPs do not need family time and are somehow immune to the needs of their families? Nonetheless, your point is hardly relevent considering it was you who said that GPs look after people 24 X 7, now you seem to be contradicting your own point!  My experience and the experience of my extended family, friends and co-workers tells me that what I stated about the out-of-hours GP service IS true. The vast majpority of the advice is either to wait til morning and see your own GP or referral to casualty. If the only patient who had a 24 hour Dr on tap was Michael Jackson - why then do you claim that that GPs are looking after their patients 24 X 7.

# 178

Posted: 23/11/2009 13:36

One of the first things M.H. did when she became Minister for Health was to open a mickey mouse supermarket in the midlands [of course,using the helicopter].What did that tell you about her ? She might had held a GRAND VISION for the health system but it was really for herself but she lost it under the hundreds of dusty reports she comissioned.

"an excuse is not the reason for saying why"

# 177

Posted: 19/11/2009 14:28

Just to set the record straight, I would earn an equivalent salary in the public dental service in the UK as I earn here. I would, however, receive a subsidy to attend clinical updates which is compulsory in the UK and will be so here next year, I have to pay for my own here. In the UK free education is exactly that, and healthcare costs are reasonable, an important factor when one has a family to support, so financially speaking many of my colleagues would be better off in the UK than working here on so-called high wages. The situation is similar in much of europe. The so called Brain Drain will become a reality again, just as it was in previous decades.

# 176

Posted: 18/11/2009 14:41

brandy, it's 3% of people on THIS discussion only!  Mary Harney's admirers are not likely to be on this thread as the discussion is so manifestly unbalanced. 

In obsessing about Harney's "poor" performance no-one addresses the real poor performance, namely the question of the lifestyle and societal aspects of our own collective ill-health as a nation.  If this was addressed the vast money that goes into the Health service would bear fruit and there would be a much higher approval rating than 3%.  Jedward gets a high performance rating on x-factor but what does that prove?

three kinds of disciples, those who impart Zen; those who tend the altars & temples; those who are the rice-bags & clothes-hangers

# 175

Posted: 17/11/2009 21:49

"Sceptical" misses my point. GPs are not threatening to leave the country when their fees are cut in the budget. What we are worrying about is that the patient centred focus that we presently have may be subsumed into a civil service type mentality with the focus on saving money and ticking boxes as in the UK system.

If "Anonymous" wants a 24 hour a day GP, he or she, (but I suspect he) should think upon the fact that over 30% of Irish GPs are now female and they need family time. If he accepts this, then is is he saying that male GPs should not also enjoy time off with their families? What he says about out of hours services simply referring onto Casualty departments simple isn't true as a cursory examination of their annual reports will testify. If he wants to send female (or male) GPs into the night with a bag full of drugs on a saturday night and no one with them he is harking back to a golden age that no longer exists. He also forgets that the locums employed by some doctors for the night shifts are paid for by those doctors. Anyone is entitles to their predudices no matter how wide of the mark but the only patient I know who had a 24 hour Dr on tap was Michael Jackson and it didn't do him a whole lot of good. GP still has the highest satisfaction rating of any part of the health service and a better one than any other profession.

# 174

Posted: 17/11/2009 20:37

Sceptical, Errick, ann, leen, Ruby, anony et al et al,

Agree with all....and anony...very apt re the brain-drain!

Just wondering.......46% seem to think we're wrong....and...apparently 3% have deluded themselves completely; is it not strange that those in the minority have 'voted' in favour of Harney's tenure....yet find it so difficult to defend the same in public here??  Very strange indeed !!

# 173

Posted: 16/11/2009 15:33

Mary Harney has practically destroyed the health service. There is no other way to describe it. I work in it, in the school dental service which incidently doesn't distinguish [yet] between private and public patients. When I started in the mid 1980's, I had great hopes for the future of public dental health in Ireland, I looked forward to working towards the development of improved services. The reality, 25 years later, is that the access to our service has become more difficult, many areas within the country have no dental cover at all, operator/patient ratios have worsened due to a failure to increase the number of dental teams despite a significant increase in population and this is all despite the best endeavours of staff. I would leave the country tomorrow if I could, for years l was told that l was a fool not to be working within the private sector, these people are now telling me l'm on the pig's back in the public sector and want to massacre what pension rites l have EARNED over those 25 years. Talk about a Career wasted. I would advise any Irish health care worker qualifying in the next few years to leave as fast as they can and stay there. You've a lot to answer for Ms Harney. 

# 172

Posted: 16/11/2009 12:44

Why is it that when there is a 'Brain Drain' in this country none of our politicians emigrate?

# 171

Posted: 13/11/2009 18:38

Not too sure what she had to do with the health service.  Thought Drumm was the one who collects the bonus. Between them the waste of money in the health service is beyond belief. Do people realize there are crutches, wheelchairs, commodes, zimmer frames and other costly equipment lying in sheds around Ireland.  People have tried to return all of those items when their realatives passed away but hospitals refused to accept them. Anyone listening to the Joe Duffy show on Monday will know this is true. Isn't it incredible that if you are an inpatient in any hospital you'll have to share all of those items with other patients and sometimes they are not washed between patients. What a waste.

concerned

# 170

Posted: 13/11/2009 18:12

I think you've missed the point Admiral. This alarmist threat - "at your peril" - is on a par with the Establishment, warning the lowest paid that the highest paid will depart (brain-drain) if they are asked to pay tax relative to income. Will GPs also up and leave if the health system is reformed to the benefit of the people?

I'm afraid those days are over - over right across the board! Nobody in Europe, Australia, UK or America pays the inflated salaries hyped by a succession of incompetent, self-interested and economically illiterate FF governments.

For example, NO 'top' civil servant, government minister, or COE of semi-state bodies, in the whole western hemisphere earns a salary comparable with those pocketed by the Irish. None of those countries want Irish 'high flyers'. These were supposed to be an educated elite. They have proved themselves selfish, money-mad, complacent fools. 

Apart, of course, from the bankers and Galway tent cronies; they are proving themselves as omnipotent and cunning - and powerful over government - as they ever were. The taxpayer is bailing out the most corrupt government and bank elite in Europe.

# 169

Posted: 13/11/2009 18:01

Harney's 'record' is becoming increasingly irrelevant....to her....and should be increasingly relevant to the tax-payer !  When she retires from 'public-service' .....for example next year.....does any one know what her net income will be??  Never mind rating her as Health-Minister so much....let's focus on exactly what she'll be having in her bank account every week when she 'retires' (next year) from so-called public-service !!  Any number crunchers out there got figures on this ??

When we know the above....then we can truly ask.....was she worth it ??

# 168

Posted: 13/11/2009 14:14

That is interesting Admiral. I have not come across any GP's surgery in Ireland which is open 24 X 7. Oh yes, there is WestDoc / CareDoc - which get back to you and triage you but they inevitably send you to casualty anyway. Interesting too that you would say it's the only branch of the health service that does not, and is not allowed to, differentiate between private and public patients - givenm that I have come across doctors refusing to take appointments for certain patients but when told they no longer have a medical card it is a different story - also with unwillingness to attend base don the same premise and GPs havign certain days and times only which facilitate medical card patients. Aand yes, you can be aitign several days for a GP appointment. I would nit want to see it destroyed but certainly reformed.

# 167

Posted: 12/11/2009 21:49

If General Practice was the uninterested private business that some of your contributors suggest, it would not be looking after the poorest and most disadvantaged in society 24 /7. General Practice in Ireland looks after 95% of all reported illnesses, refering only 5% on to hospitals. It is the only branch of the health service that does not, and is not allowed to, differentiate between private and public patients. It is also the only branch of the health sevice that measures its waiting times in hours rather than months.

Destroy it at your peril!

# 166

Posted: 12/11/2009 21:31

Of course there are many issues which revolve around the dire performance of Mary Harney. Anne is correct to highlight the single contribution made by Micheal Martin.

But consider this. I recently looked at the news website of the hospital both my wife and myself trained in all those years ago - to see the announcement that 132 Irish trained nurses would shortly be commencing work at Whipps Cross hospital in east London. The e-news item read "Patients at Whipps Cross will soon be recieving treatment from 132 nurses trained in the Emerald Isle thanks to an overseas recruitment drive........... The Trust turned to countries such as Ireland as it currently had an excess of staff unable to find work." 30 of these newly qualified nurses will be from the training school at NUI Galway.

So, after 4 years spent working hard to earn their degrees, our nurses will take their experience to work in other countries. Meanwhile HSE hospitals here are still employing agency staff from abroad which is much more expensive surely?

I wonder at what cost to the HSE is this happening?

I do appreciate that this is not new. After all my own wife had to leave - 35 years ago to go get her training in the UK. But the scale of losses of our best and brightest now is immense, and is gathering pace.

# 165

Posted: 12/11/2009 10:31

I agree 100% with Errick the Driver, but there's one person everyone is failing to mention as if he had nothing to do with the appaling health service in this country and that is Michael Martin, the failed ex health minister.

That was when the rot set in, his energies were directed at covering up the nursing home scandal, he spent 20million on reports, did nothing to improve our health service or lift the suffering at a time when Ireland was awash with money, only to implement a draconian smoking ban by using junk science statistics supplied by big pharma, that ended up in the closure of over a thousand pubs and put thousands out of work, and that left thousands of people socially excluded and broke up a social culture.

Of course he had the backing of the EU for this and unfortunately the people he was elected to represent had little or no say.

His only ability as far as I'm concerned, is the value to his party in his terrior like debating manner.

# 164

Posted: 10/11/2009 21:22

I am rather late getting involved in this debate over Mary Harneys performance. As a resident of Galway for over 30 years I well remember how things were in 1979 when I first arrived, I came from the UK, where the NHS worked quite well.

 I left before Margaret Thatcher strarted to interfere with it. Much like Mary Harney has, she destroyed all confidence in the service in her conviction that private medicine works. It dosn't. It just assists those who have money to jump the queue and forces all those who might best be called middle class, in our classless society, to join in and subscribe to costly health insurance. Even though most of us will struggle to pay out of fear.

We see that Barack has his problems in the USofA in getting Healthcare reform. But Mary Harney, though she espouses American values, has virtually destroyed the public healthcare system in Ireland and has absolutely failed to reform in the public interest - but in the interest of privatiers. Her setting up of the HSE did not achieve reform in any positive fashion, but merely allowed her distance herself and her Department from the problems. She can now turn around and blame Drumm for all the countries ills (sorry for that one).

And, as for giving tax concessions to medical entreprenuers, dont' make me cry. WE are all paying through the nose for that one.

She should go. She has no mandate, her former party was destroyed because of her poor leadership.

# 163

Posted: 10/11/2009 20:48

sceptical,

Haven't found anything in your last post....that many could disagree with....well said!  Comparing here to Cuba is not too much of a tangent either....I seem to remember hearing someone on the radio a few weeks ago lauding Cuba's system....despite their adversity.  Is it not correct that they are more advanced than many '1st' world countries regarding distribution of some vaccines etc?

The comparison is all the more appropriate if we could get the figures on Harney's wage...compared to any counterpart in Cuba...don't you think?   Thanks again.

# 162

Posted: 10/11/2009 15:45

On that I agree sceptical, conferneces and talks and reports and commitees and sub-commitees, but what so they ever achieve? And of course, cancer patients, cystic fibrosis patients and children waiting for heart operations is a shameful indictment of our system and more disasterous still if it were to model the U.S. system.

# 161

Posted: 08/11/2009 20:14

Apologies to all those who would prefer to focus on their own problems. It is the perenial Irish problem ... talk. Mary Harney talks all the time; Mary Harney, supported by her colleagues in FF, has spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money 'talking' at dozens of conferences in the good ole US of A.

What results have we had? More talk... more reports .... more promises and grand plans all gathering dust. More REALITY, more increases (something like E25,000 per annum) to consultants, more bonuses to HSE administrators, big salaries and more expenses to politicians. More ordinary people dying on trolleys, longer waiting lists, more money into the pockets of the PRIVATE GP business that is local healthcare in Ireland.

We still have a USA type system which is neither efficient nor effective for the majority of people.

My reason for comparing Ireland with Cuba was to illustrate what can be done with the minimum of material wealth but with a government and medical profession dedicated to the welfare of the people before their own wealth.

Of course we can talk until we are purple in the face about what is wrong here, how we are personally suffering, or repeat the terrible stories of cancer patients, cystic fibrosis patients, children waiting for heart operations, people paying E3,000 a week for the care of elderly parents etc. Yes, we can denigrate 'third world countries' and their lack of equipment and access to drugs and make comparisons with our own well-equipped private hospitals, but WHO is benefitting from all this top of the range equipment?

80% of the wealth created by the Celtic Tiger was in the hands of 20% of the population. The wealth remaining is still in the hands of a tiny percentage of the population while Brian Lenihan tells us 'there is no golden circle' anymore!

Not only that, but that 20% were given special tax breaks, created by McCreevy, continued by Aherne and Cowen; tax breaks which exempted them from paying ANY ordinary income tax. That does not happen in any other country in Europe OR even in the USA. But never mind, that 20% (which includes some politicians) wouldn't know what an A&E department looked like on a Saturday night and they care far less.

That is the political system that the majority here have consistently voted for. Galway couldn't drink the water out of their taps for two years. What did they do? They voted the same crowd back in. Why? Because very little is known here about how other countries work.

If we know nothing about health systems in the rest of the world we will just vote for more of the same. Yes... the NHS in the UK does have problems, they also have 67 million people to look after while we have 4.5 million! I am personally very grateful to the NHS (it saved my life) within 2 hours of presenting at a local hospital. I worked there for 37 years, paid my taxes and National Health Insurance contributions and so was entitled to immediate, totally free care, medication and hospitalisation for over three weeks.

# 160

Posted: 05/11/2009 09:32

Sceptical, with citizens having to buy aspirin on the black market and antibiotics being unavailable, along with dilapidated facilities and hugely outdated equipment, that is NOT something Cuba or any nation should be proud of - nor could it be considered a "proper" health service. That there is a proper health service in Sweden, France, Greece and also Turkey (at least Turkey 12 years ago at any rate) I agree. I know the UK is very proud of its NHS but also that like our own it is not without its very great and numerous faults - tho they are less prevalent.

I would agree with you on the Americanised system which Mary Harney seems so keen on. There has not been a community Health Service here in about 30 or 40 years, in my opinion. I do remember the great Dr. Noel Brown (just about) and how the medical profession, and politicians, in control of the Church, treated him when they felt they would lose some of their grip and control of the ordinary people if the state looked after its citizens.

# 159

Posted: 03/11/2009 18:37

coco

Thanks for your post on the 2nd Nov., you be right this discussion has taken an unusual twist, in fact I believe your complete post here to be right.

It be my opinion that we focus on Mary Harney's performance as health minister not Cuba's health system. Sure what's 3% anyway? not much it's like a miniscule droplet in the ocean. I checked polls here about Mary Harney since she became minister for health. Found quite a few. The 1st one "on her ratings after 6 months in office as health minister". Over the years ratings on irishhealth.com have gone further & further down for her performance on health which can be found here on Online Polls.

Chrissie 

UNITED WE STAND - DIVIDED WE FALL