Girls being sexualised too early
There are two 13 year olds where I live and both are sexually active very regularly with different boys . Three 13 year olds in my school alone fear they might be pregnant and two of my younger friends have just in the last 2 weeks had healthy babies, and two more with babies on the way!!! Im 19 and have a 14 yr old sister, there is talk about sex, who's doing it, and with who. The school won't take it seriously, they ''need evidence''.
Has Anybody Any Advice?? Should 13-yr olds be put on the pill???
Its Not Where You're From, Its Where You're At
Agreed. It seems to be getting younger and younger too. Children, especially girls, are barely allowed to have a childhood now. you know this new pole dancing is the lastest craze and I am not saying that it is not beneficial from an exercise point of view or whatever but it is so disturbing when you are sitting on the tram late at night and you see these little pre teens getting on and using the handrails to shop off their pole dancing moves! Seriously...
I wore make up at 12 and 13 (I thought I looked older with it on but sure I probably only looked silly), but I certainly wasn't out drinking or getting into trouble with the law - my mother certainly wouldn't have allowed that.
I see so many teenagers going out drinking and ending up in trouble, they put on their make up and they are only 12 -13. they look like, sorry for saying this, but look like slappers.
Bras, with sized cups (presumably it would be and AA- cup as a child would not have developed and therefore would not have anything to fill them) for 6 year olds. I would love to know what shop they were in becuase it certainly is a new one on me. And how does the material not just crumple up and look ridiculous under clothing?
I agree with what Patricia is saying about the unhealthy body images and expectations being marketted to young girls tho.
Good for you, Sue! I greatly enjoyed reading your post, and you also gave me a good laugh. Yes, girls are being sexualised too early (and yes, that is happening to as young as 6, unfortunately). I fail to see where the "bra war" is going......
Some girls may need a bra at 11 if their breasts have developed.
I think it is more a case of the times we live in, with the media and advertising bombarding the young with totally crazy stuff.
It is quite correct that a paedophile is drawn to a child, not because of what she, or he, is wearing, but for entirely different reasons. And yes, paedophiles do target kids as young as six, and younger. And, unfortunately, the paedophile is not some stranger and odd-looking jerk prowling the fence around the schoolyard, but in the great percentage of cases, someone known to the child, or even within the home. That is the hard fact of the matter.
It is true that the heavy advertising in the media and online do give very erroneous ideas to very young girls/children as regards image (ideal image), and behaviour. What is the agenda behind this sustained campaign? Who knows.
Anonymous- I am not interested in getting into "he said, she said" tattle, suffice to say that Yes I AGREE that sized bras with cups would look ridiculous on a child who has not developed, but this is EXACTLY the issue in hand. I have SEEN these bras in well known clothing stores in town and they very definitley HAVE cups. Nobody on here has tried to say that there is anything wrong with crop vests.
Some women wear a bra solely for the prettiness/sexual appeal of it and some women do not wear bras at all. But I agree, there is too much emphasis on this wole bra thing. I was in Dunnes, Penny's and M& S last night and as it happens was shopping for childrens cloths and I didn't see bras aimed at s 6 year old in any of them Not sure what dolls you are referring to - perhaps it's the barbie's - they were around in my time, or similar and beleive me I know the difference between dressing up a doll and how actual ordinary adult women (not "hookers" dress). ma sure todays children cna be credited with the same intelligence. What I do find disturbing about some of the dolls (Barbie, ratz ETC) is that they portray a totally UNREALISTIC body image to children and that can certainly be damaging if a gilr doesn't have a solid fpoundation at home but then this is down to parents too.
Lou, I was following up on Sue's comment, here is is again if you haven't read it
" if a bra wasnt meant to be sexual it would be plain and simple and the same for all women" - . . 'all WOMEN'.
Bras can be plain and practical for WOMEN also - just like shoes or t-shirts.
Clearly a sized-cup bra - as distimct froma crop top, whether plain up pretty will simply look ridiculous all rumpled, puckered and and with the useless material of the bra cup all gathered up under a child's t-shirt.
It might not make a difference to a pervert if the child is in a bra or not but the main topic is are young girls being sexualised too soon and quite simply a bra on a child IS sexualising them too soon. I wear bras for support but they are not all plain and simple they are sexy the same as alot of women. Bras essentially serve two purposes 1. Support 2. To make us feel sexy, appealing. If some1 isn't wearing a bra for support then what is left, to feel sexy/appealing.... A child DOESNT need support so therefore doesnt need a bra and shouldnt wear 1.
The article above is refering to dolls that are aimed at young children but in my eyes are dressed like hookers - Platforms, fishnets, TINY mini skirts, belly tops and over powering makeup... If what I describe is how some of you dress im sorry but its just my opinion. Not all of the dolls are dressed like this but with the garments that the doll is wearing available to young girls then how can you explain to them that that is not the way they should dress. It seems simple to me, just dont buy the doll for your child but alot of people dont think the attire of a doll affects their childs way of thinking. But EVERYTHING around your child influences them and affects their way of thinking.
This thread has focused waaaaaay too much on the bra aspect and noone really seems to be taking any other aspects into account. Also when you say young girl its not a 6 yr old so why sooooo much emphasis is going into 6 yr olds i duno... Some things I think that are aiding to sexualising girls too soon are 1) Toys, dolls 2) Skimpy clothes aimed at young girls, 3) Use of make up, its no longer for playing dress up, its a daily occurance in some young girls they want to wear it all the time 4) The role models that are in their lives musicians, actors, parents. 5) Peers
"Bras can be plain and practical also" - how on earth could a bra be "practical" on a child who does not have breasts?!
Sue, Bras can be plain and practical also - just like shoes or t-shirts. People who find children attractive sexually are quite simply sick sick perverts and its going to make no difference to such deranged indiviuduals what the child is wearing just as it makes no difference to rapist, what their victim is wearing. Some children are more advanced than others and are still real kids at 11, others are physically deveoping in a very gender specific way by that time and need a bra and like to experiement with make-up etc. Of course children should be monitored as regards internet access. Not everyone's motives are as healthy and wholesome as our own.
Anon said IDEAL body size being 12 not average. A size 12 is ideal for certain people but it depends on your frame and height.
Breasts ARE sexual regardless of how they are shown (Ive seen men oogling women who were breast feeding a child, i dont mean looking or staring WOMEN you should know what I mean!! Disgusting in my eyes...) I agree wit ...... I cant remember but if a bra wasnt meant to be sexual it would be plain and simple and the same for all women just look at ann summers, La senza for example they run their whole business on the concept of fancy, flirty, sexy underwear!!
My neice is 7 and asked for a bra last year and me n my sis LAUGHED sooooo loud my niece nearly cried she didnt and still doesnt understand that they are a necessity aswell as an accessory, she just wanted what shes seen us with. In her mind it was a case of I wana be like mammy, the same as wearing her shoes n playing with her dolls shes acting out being mammy!!!
Someone mentioned that men dont find 6 yr olds sexual well im sooooo soooo sorry to have to be the 1 to point this out but what the hell is sexual child abuse then!!!!
The idea of sexualising children at a young age is not defined in this thread so I think the sides are divided because of a misunderstanding. Some people find makeup (I dont mean glitter and kids make up sets) on kids to be too sexual for the childs age. They view it as sexualising because the child is being made up to look older then their years. I used to work in a clothes shop and they always had mini versions of an adult outfit so your 3 yr old could match u in ur slinky black halter neck. Any garment that a women would wear out on a night out I think SHOULD NOT be aimed at a child. Casual matching clothes are fine. Short ra-ra skirts were the rage last summer some kids didn even wear leggings so you could see their pants cos they are short. Some people just dont mind what their child wears
When I was six I used to run around tramore beach in my underwear if I didnt have a swim suit that was dry.... Was I being sexualized??? Society has changed and acceptable attire for kids has changed. When i was young my knees were as brown as chocolate with a natural tan because my dresses wer to my knees and my socks came up to just under my knees even in the height of summer (unless i was in tramore)
There are so many aspects that we could pick at about sexualising children but simply it depends on the childs parents and their beliefs of whats acceptable and whats not.
Im 24 and I never wore makeup until i was 14+ i just wasnt bothered. My 11 year old niece wears makeup and its not in a dress up way its done in the morning before school and touched up at break REDICULOUS in my eyes but obviously not in my sister in laws. My 11 yr old niece is on bebo and POSES all the time pouting her lips (Look at most of the pics of that poor girl Amy Fitzpatrick) I've heard it being refered to as the bebo pout. I find this sexualizing, she is trying to appear sexy and that disturbs me as shes a KID...... Ooooh and while Im ranting I blew a gasket with my sis in law a while bak as my 11 yr old niece has taught my 4 yr old niece how to do this pout and HAD pics of her on her bebo page. Some parents like my bro and sis in law dont monitor what their kids do on the net and these pics were spotted by me (the inteferring bitch) and removed before all hell broke loose...
Im sorry if i appear to be contradicting myself in parts but my view is simple I think YES young girls are being sexualized at too young an age but there are too many aspects regarding sexualization that I cant begin to list the areas.
On the subject of Bratz dolls and indeed Barbie,they do protray and unhealthy and unattainable body image to girls and this I beleive could be both physically and mentally harmful. As for the "OLDER TAG" I am slightly youner than yourself - not that it matters, mind you.
I would partually agree with Brabdy in that yoiung girls are being pushed into the adult world earlier than they want to be, by the media in the interst of increasing profits, in terms of commercialisation. As for sexuality in the media. I remember witnessing suchlike on TV when I was pre-teen (Dallas on TV etc). It kind of bored me to be honest as I had no interest in sexual matters then but it certainly isnta new thing. Interestign tho in terms of point 3 - both genders are being commercialised (if not sexualised) very early in life.
Se-se, why would 5 year old, in the infants class in primary school be wearing or want to wear bras? They would be utterly useless and the sized cups would crumple up and look unslightly under clothes.
As for the girls of 12 ans 13 who speak of having had sex, sure there were girls in my class in school (you mention elementary school which would indicate that you are in the U.S.) who boasted about doing this and that with boys but all it was was boasting in an attempt to impress - even tho they would swear blind to convince you that it was true.
1. If by sexualised we mean they are being rushed into 'adulthood' far too early....via all media,advertising etc (in a bid to increase profits for certain fashion/clothes co's )...then I would have to say yes they are.
We all have, surely, witnessed this on numerous programs...advertising 'competitions' etc etc.
2. If by sexualised we mean they are being allowed to 'witness' stuff on the media (all types...incl. the web) which any concerned parent would not want them to witness....then (again)...I would have to say...yes...they are being sexualised too early.
Regarding the above (especially 2.)....it seems we could expand this concern to both genders....because if we are convinced that girls are 'sexualised' too early....what then does this mean for the opposite gender....if they witness such 'abuse'? Will they, earlier and earlier....look at girls in a 'different' way?
...just a thought. Thanks.
You like Barbie86 seem to deliberately want to deny how the whole thing works. We are speaking in generalities here, as obviously every individual has their own preferences.
By-in-large hetrosexual men like women. Hopefully a given, although given the way this debate is going even the most obvious fact seems to be debated by yourself and Barbie86.
Most men like some combination of nice breasts, nice behind. nice legs and nice face.
I am now daring to venture into highly controversial territory. By-in-large there would be a generally accepted ideal body shape of approx size 12, with nice curves, but not too much. As a result or maybe because of this, natural selection makes this body type the most common. Although they may make the best models for clothes, very few men would find the skinny figure attractive.
Now relating all this back to biology. Nice breasts equals symbolically fertility. Nice bum mirrors nice breasts. Size 12 figure would equate to healthy strong body. Lips being attractive; well you will have to work that one out yourself.
These are all just generalities. It is no coincidence that these generalities are exploited daily in ad campaigns in your average magazine.
Exactly what is your point here. This eminated from the discussion of girls being sexualised too early. Your lack of understanding of how the sexual attractiveness thing works is worrying is an obviously adult woman. Our 6 year old girls do not need their thoughts being pushed in this direction by wearing inappropriate adult-type clothes at too young an age. Another example is Bratz dolls to me protray a very unsuitable body image for young girls. Older women however like yourself seem to be lacking in bodily awareness in a frightening way.
Besides, young girsl don't have breasts nor do they have fertility - and also, normal men, regardless of what they wear, do not find such young girls attractive in that way.
And your last sentance "I think to suggest any form of attire makes a small girl sexual is stupid, personally." is ridiculous.
"any form of attire"! So suspenders and thong on a 6 year old girl is ok?
Obviously you don't think that, but think about what you're saying before you hit "submit message"
I do agree with you Patricia when it comes to things like fake tan for first commmunion - I think it is ridiculous but I don't think that is about sexualisation but vanity - children reflect what they see and in this case it is a reflection of the vanity of the adult world.
As for crop tops - the summer is perfect for wearign them, when we get a good summer but bar in mind they are also worn under shirt in the same way that sleeveless t-shirts are worn - by both adults and children
Gosh, I think I'll crawl into a corner after that. LOL
Poor old stupid me........
Your statement "Whether a man thinks that a certain bra or pair of breasts is sexy is irrelevant; that isn't the purpose they're designed for." illustrates your pure niavity on the whole matter.
First off evolution has determined that breasts are sexually attractive, so therefore that role has evolved for them as well as the more functional aspect of breast feeding.
Second as I have repeatedly said, just because in your innocence you believe that the thoughts of men on the matter is irrelevant does not of itself make it true. If men think it is relevant then de facto it is relevant, whether you like or want it to be. In general men like breasts.
Thirdly I have a number of times said that sexual messages don't all have to be full blown in-your-face exciting. There are degrees of subtley to be had. So just because your men friends do not find the sight of a bra strap exciting does not take away from a subtle call for attention in the display in the first place.
Fourthly if bras have one function only, why would they not all be just plain white wire-reinforced engineering structures, that provided good support? The answer is obvious to me a man. There is more to a bra than that, and the fact that some bras are more sexy than others is proof positive. For heavens sake would you just take a look at the ad campaigns in any glossy magazine to open your eyes.
Another thing is that the climate in our fair land is not conducive much to wearing the so called crop top, and the sight of blue-with-the-cold flesh protruding from under the garment is not the prettiest sight!
Yes, if they saw a gorgeous woman in the street wearing just a bra, they probably would find it pretty hot; likewise they'd find it pretty hot if a woman was wearing a tight top with no visible bra. It's breasts that cause the excitement, not the bras themselves (or do you see bras in shops on the rails and think 'WOW!'? No, don't think so)
A) 6 year olds just wouldn't be put in bras unless necessary; hence this argument about bras being sexual is largely irrelevant anyway. Bras have one purpose and one purpose only; to provide support for a woman's breasts. Whether a man thinks that a certain bra or pair of breasts is sexy is irrelevant; that isn't the purpose they're designed for.
B) if a 6 year old WAS wearing a bra, they wouldn't understand that it was sexual. They'd probably think they were pretty or grown-up. A bit like when little girls try on their mums shoes and clothes and jewelery, or wear those plastic 'high heel' dress-up shoes, or pretend they're a mummy with their baby doll - there's nothing sexual about it; they're playing make-believe. I think to suggest any form of attire makes a small girl sexual is stupid, personally.
Sigh!! Everything IS so much "in your face" these times, and subtlety seems to be a dead or dying art.
Best to all
ACTUALLY, Anon, I am quite a visual creature myself (smile). (I did not say I wasn"t). I did say men are visual creatures, which they are, at all and any age, heh heh.
Thanks for your support, I thought I was losing my marbles for a while there. In a nice amusing way, you have got to the heart of how men are made up. It is not our fault, it is genetic going back to the stone-age roles of hunter for the males. Visual is where it is at for men.
Actually Patricia, if you talk to your women friends, you will find that altho you may not be, many many women are visual creatues also.
I don't like bra straps showing myself either as a matter of fact (on me) but many shops now do see through shoulder straps which are very handy in summer if you're wearing a strappy top.
Please don’t exaggerate. I only said that bras have a sexual element to them and do send a sexual message. This doesn’t necessarily mean that every man walking down the street is thinking about having sex. However, there are degrees of messages from the subtle to the down-right “in your face”. People in general do not walk around in the nude, yet people do find other people physically attractive, for all sorts of subtle reasons. Whether you like it or not these subtle reasons are in all part of the sexual message. That is how we as humans are made up. You can get into the semantics of the difference between a bra and a crop-top that for all the world looks like a bra, if that makes you feel better. I have said that I think that this kind of dressing of girls is sexualising them too early, and I stand by that
Just having a little smile to myself here! LOL.
Ladies, listen to what the guys here are saying. They are telling the truth. Yes! Men are "visual" creatures, unlike us. So all kinds of things send them messages........
And yes (tell me I am right guys!) men do think of sex an inordinate amount of the time. (smile).
A woman could be encased head to toe in a TIGHT black velvet sheath dress, even down to her wrists, and that is totally erotic, far more than if she were nude.
All that being said, I really do think a six year old would look utterly daft in a bra. Small girls look utterly daft anyhow in tiny versions of grown up women's clothes. I think rather than looking sexualised they like a bit laughable.
I don't particularly like the "look" where bra straps are allowed to show, but then I suppose many think it is cool.
I am not arguing that six year olds should wear bras; however, I have never in my life seen a six year old in a bra. Buying a bra for a small child would be ludicrous; it wouldn't fit properly for a start, and would probably be a huge nuisance to them. I can't think of many (any in fact) parents who would buy their 6 year old a bra unless necessary. Children at that age don't like to be different either; they want what their friends have. Even at 10 I was embarrassed about wearing a bra.
I find it very sad that you feel that concealed or not, bras send a sexual message. I honestly don't know any men who get excited just by seeing a bra-strap. Seeing a gorgeous woman posing in her bra and thong might be different; but then I'd say it isn't the BRA causing excitement, but the woman herself.
Men don't need to see a bit of bra to make the connection that women have breasts. Breasts are pretty noticeable, bra or not.
I think you have some strange ideas about women and breasts TBH. I actually find the assertion that having breasts makes me a sexual object quite disturbing. I understand that men find breasts attractive, but I find the idea that when I walk down the street in summer showing a bra strap, every man is thinking about having sex with me, or automatically thinking about my breasts, a bit disturbing. Maybe in future I should wear baggy jumpers and try to hide my woman-hood...
The main point is that bras are NOT sold to 6 year olds; bras are sold in cup sizes. Only someone with breasts would ever buy a bra. Younger girls might well buy pretty crop tops; that is because little girls like to be little girls and wear pretty, frilly things.
Various shops sell bras geared at younger girls who are developing. M&S and BHS for example do a range. These bras are in small sizes (normally starting at a 28AA), and tend to be in fairly simple styles; plain colours and cotton fabrics. They aren't aimed at a particular age group (older teenagers who have developed late might by them as well as younger girls), they are aimed at a particular stage of development. Girls now are developing quite young, so in some cases these bras will be bought for young girls; in most cases though it will be girls of 9 or 10.
The connection is plain. A bra has no physical function for a 6 year old. Therefore the only function left is the sexual function. You keep denying the sexual element of a bra; yet I as a man am telling you that intentional or not a bra sends a sexual message. It is for this reason that they are inappropriate for 6 year olds.
There is no point in getting too bogged down in a fashion discussion, except to say that whether the fashion is to flaunt the bra or conceal the bra, both draw attention to the same part of the body. Concealment is from the “less is more” school.
It is not so much about how men might look at a young girl; it is more about what it is saying to a 6 year old about how she should look at herself