Ange13  Posted: 05/10/2009 19:54

Hey! Haven't been on here for a while but just wondering what you mean AC????

AC  Posted: 05/10/2009 13:27

INDIFFERENCE

Anonymous  Posted: 14/07/2009 16:16

Good point re: the baby gaining weight. Those charts are based on formula fed babies. Wwomen also worry about how they will measure if the baby is getting enough. Possible with a bottle - impossible with the breast. the fact remains that brwastfeeding helps protect against osteoporisis providing the woman gets suficient calciumn (and most non-lactating women don't even do so) when she finishes breastfeeding  and is building her bones back up - regardless of whether this is by supplementation or from food if the calcium is not in her diet the women cannot absorb it. That's common sense.

Atho you quoted my post I don't think you read it.

I did not say that many women give up breastfeeding after 6wks just because of birth control (not sure what is with your quotation marks given that contraception is a big issue for women particularly post-partum) what I said was that women hold the belief that breastfeeding just for the first six weeks - after which they will have to give it up (to go back on the pill) just isn't worth it.

Regardless of what you think about condoms the fact remains that the vast majority of sexually active women who are in secure long term relationships just will not be willing to go back to using condoms so that is unrealistic.

Medical advice, which is from from medically trained experts afterall, given to women is NOT to use breastfeeding as a contraceptive as it is NOT regarded as sufficently reliable.

Ange13  Posted: 14/07/2009 15:27

Hi Annonymous,

Re : "Something you haven't taken into account tho - or maybe you have but it is something that is on women's minds also is that they cannot go back on the pill if they breastfeed. Where the mini-pill od coil is not suitable, as it may not be for some women after birth a commonly held beleif is that they cannot go back on he pill and btreastfeed so they hold the beleif that breastfeeding just for the first six weeks - after which they will have to give it up just isn't worth it."

Tbh I don't know of any woman who gave up breastfeeding after 6wks just because of ' birth control'... It just sounds completely ridiculous.

Re: " the vast majoity of sexually active women who are in secure long term relationships just will not be willing to go back to using condoms so that is unrealistic. "

The mini pill and a condom would offer extra protection.

Re : Natural child spacing, (ecological breastfeeding) When this method is used correctly it CAN be effective. BUT ONLY when used correctly!Ange

Anonymous  Posted: 14/07/2009 09:16

I do take your point re: not having a perfect diet. The advice women here get, up until recently anyway and as far as I am awre, still do, is to increase their calcium intake and frankly I would far prefer to follow that advice that risk osteoporosis. I think the IMJ or the Lancet are the medical journals that are more likely to be followed here tho'. The advice tho' would be to increase the calcium intake naturally - i.e,. by taking more calcium risch foods, in preference to supplementation as calcium rich food such as milk, yogurt, cheese etc is far nmore metabolically available thna supplementation. Cwrtainly humans can survive on less than 2L of water a day but standard medicla advice would be that the closer to the optimum intake the better and particularly the better for the mother as producing milk required fluid, whih has to come from somewhere. If it is not replaced then the mother suffers.

Anonymous  Posted: 13/07/2009 09:25

Hi again Angela, again your information is most interesting.  100% safest method of birth control = no SEX. very funny. Equally 100% most effective method = tubal ligation but also clearly not suitable unless a woman has completed her family and to be fair, the vast majoity of sexually active women who are in secure long term relationships just will not be willing to go back to using condoms so that is unrealistic. As you say,  the pill, patch, nuvaring (monthly shot is rarely used here and the nuvaring is not as popular but worth mentioning of course) are contraindicated and that is off-putting for a lot of women. The mini-pill has a lower effectiveness (92%) rate and more of a margin for error - which is why it is off-outting for some women. The Depo is not suitable long term and has been linked with osteoporisis and excessive bleeding. The Mirena IUS (Progestasert is not used here) may not be suitable for some months following a c-section but otherwise, yes a good idea if suitable (there are certain contraindications such as a history of ecxtopic pregnancy and certainuterine conditions) and is as close to 100% effective as you can get at over 99%, without having a tubal ligation. The implant is a very good suggestion and also very effetive . Not sure where you're posting from but Norplant is NOT available here is it has been withdrawn due to the fact that it is DANGEROUS. I'm not sure where you're posting from (I suspect it is the US as you provide references to the AAP) but women here are advised by their gynae's and gps NOT to use breastfeefing as a form of birth control because even on-demand feeding is NOT considered sufficiently reliable (certainly not compared to the pill which has an effectiveness rate here of over 97%) as women CAN and DO still ovulate even tho they are breastfeeding so this advice should NOT be taken by any woman seeking to prevent another pregnancy. Given the overpopulation of parts of Africa and Asia, it should be obvious as to its unreliability.

Ange13  Posted: 11/07/2009 12:25

Hi Clementine,  Re: sling,  It was the early days that I found the sling so handy, you know when they just want to be in your arms all the time.  But I agree once they reach a certain weight it's hard on the back.

Sorry you had such a hard time in the hospital.  I hate the whole mentality of offering " top ups" as a solution, instead  of helping the mother by identifying the breastfeeding problem, which in most cases is a latching problem. Fair play to you for sticking to your guns and going on to breastfeed successfully.

Another pet hate of mine is the obsession with weight and breastfed babies. First of all, they use outdated charts from the 1970's that are based on formula fed babies. Formula fed babies grow at  faster rates compared to breastfed babies.  The WHO updated 'growth charts' in 2006 for breastfed babies but here in Ireland we use the old ' out dated ' ones.  The problem here is when a breastfed baby doesn't match up to these 'charts' , the mother is often told her baby is underweight and needs to ' TOP-UP ' unnecessarily... We really do have to step up a gear in this country!  

Anonymous,  before you come back to me and say that I've contradicted myself regarding  ' breastfeeding and bonehealth'.    The bottom line is that whether you supplement with extra calcium or not, breastfeeding helps potect against oteoporosis.

Angela

Ange13  Posted: 10/07/2009 20:49

Hi anonymous,  the point regarding diet was not to suggest that it's okay to have a very poor diet and drink hardly any fluids.  The main point was  that you don't have to have a 'perfect'  diet and drink 'excessive ' amounts of fluids in order to provide quality milk for your baby.

Re : Calcium,  " PROVIDED and ONLY provided the motehr is getting enough metobolically available calcium in her diet - otherwise the calcium is NOT replaced in the boes and this leaves er open to osteoporosis. Not including this information is not only misleading but does women a disservce, I believe."

Not true I'm afraid, 

  Until recently, it was believed that nursing mothers should increase their calcium intake by 400 to 800 mg per day . But according to a recent study published in the New England Journal of Medicine, researchers found that increasing the calcium intake in women had no effect on the calcium concentration of breastmilk, and did not alter the pattern of change of bone mineral density associated with lactation and weaning. Breastfeeding mothers, whether they received calcium supplements or not, lost 4 to 5% of their bone density. After weaning their baby, the calcium returned to their bones. Calcium supplementation, or the lack of it had no 'overall 'effect on total bone mass of the mother's body, or the calcium concentration of breastmilk.

 Re water : "humans need a minimum of 2 litres daily anyway, on top of the liquid which comnes from food." 

I love water and drink a fair amount of it myself, but we do not ' NEED ' 2L daily on top of the liquid that comes from food.

Angela

Anonymous  Posted: 10/07/2009 08:56

Hi Angela, yes, I gathered our posts got crossed, so to speak. I am glad you posted the information about a perfect diet. So many women I beleive think that their diet isn't good enough to breastfeed or they won;t be able to maintaina  good enogh diet and this is off-putting. They feel theyt feel they have to be 'perfect' if such a  thing exists. And those who are so righteous and adamantly pro-breastfeeding to the point of making formula feeding mothers feel bad (breastfeeding nazi's as you  refer to them) seem to think that pregnancy should cuase perfection - instead of resulting in a baby. However, I tink to say that the quality of a mother’s diet has little influence on her milk, is a little misleading., If the mkoter has a very poor diet then this will not be good for her health and and being in porr health is not good for her or her baby. The quality of the milk has to come form somewhere. By the time you experience thirst, you havge already begun the process of dehydration so waitying for thirst is not a good idea. Wwhich is possibly why health professionals will advise a mother to drink a glass of water while breastfeeding. I don't think anyone intend to force water on anyone however  - humans need a minimum of 2 litres daily anyway, on top of the liquid which comnes from food. Dehydration even at its slughtests is not simply signified by thirst but by a range of other symptoms. If your diet is deficient in minerals- then where does the minerals for the brestmilk come from>? Depletion? If so, the nthat is dangerous for the mothers health and women in that sutuation should supplentn when breastfeeding. The mothers health is as important ans the baby's bear in mind so thinking abiout and providing for it is paramount also. "the calcium for the baby's milk is taken from your bones and all the calcium in your diet goes straight into your bones and this effect continues for six months after you wean - PROVIDED and ONLY provided the motehr is getting enough metobolically available calcium in her diet - otherwise the calcium is NOT replaced in the boes and this leaves er open to osteoporosis. Not including this information is not only misleading but does women a disservce, I believe.

Student midwife, you say -I accept for most this is because "they feel they must" return to the workforce. As if you somehow think mothers are duped into doing so and if that is the case, I feel it is rahter insulting. For many or most, it is becuase they DO have to return to the workforce - most women don't have the luxury of either staying at home and not earning or the priviledge of extending their maternity leave - becuase the vast majortity of employers cannot facilitate this. And of course some women return to the workforce because they want to and their career is important to them. I understand we have a longer paid maternity leave than most European countries and certainly longer than the U.S. tho I don't know about Australia.

Ange13  Posted: 09/07/2009 11:17

Hi again!  ( pity these messages aren't posted straight away to keep the conversation flowing!)

Birth Control and Breastfeeding

(1) 100% safest method   =   NO SEX!!! lol..

(2) Condoms ??

(3)  (very long winded but a lot of info...)

Combination contraceptives

It's recommended that any estrogen-containing contraceptive be avoided until baby is at least six months old AND after baby is well-established on solid foods.

Combination contraceptives contain both progesterone and estrogen and come in several different forms:

• The combination birth control pill (Alesse, Yasmin, Seasonale, Mircette, Loestrin, Lo/ovral, Demulen, Desogen, Nordette, Ortho Tri-Cyclen, Triphasil, Norinyl, Ortho-Novum, Ovral, etc.)
• the monthly injection (Lunelle)
• the birth control patch (Ortho Evra)
• the vaginal ring (NuvaRing).

Milk supply: Estrogen-containing contraceptives have been linked to low milk supply and a shorter duration of breastfeeding even when started when baby is older, after milk supply is well established. Not all mothers who take contraceptives containing estrogen will experience a low milk supply, but these unaffected mothers appear to be a very small minority.

Safety: Both progestin (progesterone) and estrogen are approved by the American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) for use in breastfeeding mothers. See below for additional information on side effects related to lactation.

Progestin-only contraceptives are the preferred choice for breastfeeding mothers when something hormonal is desired or necessary.

Progestin-only contraceptives come in several different forms:

• the progestin-only pill (POP) also called the "mini-pill" (Micronor, Errin, Nor-QD, Ovrette, Microval, etc)
• the birth control injection (Depo Provera)
• the progesterone-releasing IUD (Mirena, Progestasert)
• the birth control implant (Norplant, Implanon).

Milk supply: For most mothers, progestin-only forms of contraception do not cause problems with milk supply if started after the 6th-8th week postpartum and if given at normal doses. However, there are many reports (most anecdotal but nevertheless worth paying attention to) that some women do experience supply problems with these pills, so if you choose this method you still need to proceed with some caution.

If you're interested in one of the longer lasting progestin-only forms of birth control (the Depo-Provera shot lasts at least 12 weeks, but effects may be seen up to a year; the Mirena/Progestasert IUD and the Norplant implant can last up to 5 years), it may be a good idea to do a trial of progestin-only pills (mini-pill) for a month or more before deciding on the longer-term form of birth control. If you find that you are among the women whose supply drops significantly due to progestin-only birth control, you can simply discontinue the pills - rather than struggling with low milk supply for several months until the shot wears off or you get the implant or IUD removed.

Do note that the Mirena/Progestasert IUD delivers its hormone directly to the lining of the uterus, which only leads to a slight increase in progesterone levels in the blood stream (much lower than that found with the progesterone-only pill). As a result, there is much less chance of side effects from the progesterone than from the Depo-Provera shot or mini-pill.

Milk composition: At higher doses than normal this type of pill can affect the content of breastmilk. At these higher doses it has been shown to decrease the protein/nitrogen and lactose content of the milk. At regular doses, this does not seem to be as likely.

Safety: Progestin (progesterone) is approved by the AAP for use in breastfeeding mothers. See below for additional information on side effects related to lactation.

  (4)  Breastfeeding...... ( the natural way of child spacing)

n third world countries, very few people have access to 'western' birth control methods. Breastfeeding is the only method of child spacing most have access to - and it does have a tremendous impact. One study suggests that if all breastfeeding were to stop, there would be a 20-30% increase in the birth rate worldwide within a year.

How does it work? The Lactational Amenorrhea Method (LAM) of child spacing works primarily due to the pattern of breastfeeding. It offers more than 98% protection from pregnancy during the first six months if a mother follows these guidelines:

• her periods have not returned (no vaginal bleeding after the 56th day after birth) AND
• no regular supplementation (no more than 5-15% of infant's nutrition) nor going for longer than 4 hours during the day/6 hours at night between nursings AND
• her baby is less than 6 months old

The key to LAM is frequent nursings. When a baby starts to go longer between feedings, such as sleeping through the night, this lack of stimulation can cause a return of fertility. The majority of mothers who follow this nursing pattern remain period-free for at least the first six months or longer. LAM is not a new theory. It has been extensively tested, and its effectiveness is verified from around the world.

Every mother is different. Some may follow this pattern and get their period back at three months; some may not resume periods until months after starting solids or ending nighttime nursings. Any bleeding is a sign of fertility - and the longer you go without periods, there is a chance that you could ovulate before your first period. Even with that said, if you meet ALL the criteria above, you are less likely to become pregnant than if you take the birth control pill.

The choice is yours only YOU can decide....

Angela

Ange13  Posted: 08/07/2009 21:55

Hi again anonymous,

' From 6mths a breastfed baby is on solids, and breastfeeds a lot less. '  ( what I should have said here is ' By 6mths a baby is breastfeeding less' , (In the early stages when their stomachs are so small they feed a hell of a lot , but as their little stomachs get bigger, they hold more and feed less, they also become more efficient feeders as time goes on. ) Breastmilk is still their main source of nutrition for the first year complemented by solids from 6mths.

Just a bit of extra info on breastfeeding and the mothers diet.

Do I need to maintain a perfect diet while breastfeeding?

The short answer to this question is NO – you do not need to maintain a perfect diet in order to provide quality milk for your baby. In fact, research tells us that the quality of a mother’s diet has little influence on her milk. Nature is very forgiving – mother’s milk is designed to provide for and protect baby even in times of hardship and famine. A poor diet is more likely to affect the mother than her breastfed baby.  But!..... You will be healthier and feel better if you eat well. It is best for anyone to eat a variety of foods, in close to their naturally-occurring state, but this is not necessary for providing quality milk or for maintaining milk supply. Although it is certainly not recommended, a breastfeeding mother could live on a diet of junk food – mom would not thrive on that diet, but her milk would still meet her baby's needs.

• Liquids: It is not necessary to force fluids; drinking to satisfy thirst is sufficient for most mothers. Unless you are severely dehydrated, drinking extra fluids is not beneficial, may cause discomfort, and does not increase milk supply. It is not necessary to drink only water - our bodies can utilize the water from any fluid.
• The main message on calories and fluids -- Eat when hungry & drink when thirsty.

Breastmilk levels of calcium, magnesium, phosphorus, zinc, iron and folic acid are fine even if your diet is deficient. If supplements are needed, they are for your benefit -- not baby's.

( Love this bit!)

The good news is that breastfeeding protects you against osteoporosis!!

When you are growing, your bones get denser, but generally by the time you reach your early 20s, they are set and won't get any better. All you can do is try to stop them getting worse. However, the exception is when you are breastfeeding. Your bones become metabolically active again, as the calcium for the baby's milk is taken from your bones and all the calcium in your diet goes straight into your bones and this effect continues for six months after you wean.. Women who eat only a moderate diet come out with stronger bones. Women who eat a really good diet, and supplement with cal/mag and vit D, have much stronger bones.

That's all for now folks!!

Angela...

Ange13  Posted: 08/07/2009 14:29

Hi anonymous & clementine, 

Just to let you know that  I posted the ' Breastfeeding Myths' post before I received your posts ( if that makes sense?).

Just don't want to come across as some kind of ' breastfeeding Nazi '. ( just thought they were interesting!)

Clementine, I'm still reading ' The Politics of Breastfeeding ', ( about half way through) 

" “Of course suckling may feel a little strange at first, as any new experience might. Some women may feel a little sore, but if the baby is well attached this decreases quickly. If it gets worse then there is a problem and urgent help is needed” (p.28) 

She then goes on to say " Too many women experience sore, cracked and even bleeding nippples and think this is normal.  No wonder word gets round that breastfeeding is dreadful. [p28)

What I'm taking from this is ' It's normal to feel uncomfortable at the start but it is not normal to be in pain.'

I thought the ' KMC'  ( Kangaroo mother baby care) method was amazing!  I had never heard of this before. [p59)

Anonymous,  I agree with you regarding  " if a woman is too exhausted / ill to do so right away, many mothers do successfully manage to establish breastfeeding the day after the birth also, so just becuase a woman cannot do so straight away doesn';t mean she cannot try the next day and be successful."

I was lucky to have had straight-forward  deliveries on both of mine.

Regarding 'pumps and bottles', When I was pregnant I fell into the trap of buying a breast-pump and bottles assuming they were a necessity.. I never used them ( apart from twice) so this was a total  waste of money.  So what I'm saying is, I wouldn't advise anyone to buy these when pregnant because only once you have had your baby  will you know what road you are going to go down regards feeding.

Ange

StudentMidwife  Posted: 08/07/2009 12:18

Anthropological studies refer to societies and in this case so called 'developed' societies.  Babies left to 'choose' their own time of weaning will wait until well after 2 years of age.  In 'developed' society babies are led to wean by their mothers because of familial or social pressure or simply because the mother wants to stop feeding.  Personally I think a mother who had fed for 12 moths in todays 'developed' society has done exceptionally well.  Most see the 6 month time span as the norm and plan to wean then.  I accept for most this is because they feel they must return to the workforce.

Its about time the governement moved into line with other countries with exceptional breastfeeding rates and extended maternity leave.  The time a mother (breastfeeding or not) spends with her small infant is beneficial emotionally and physically, in most cases to both of them.  It is a shame the constitution that claims to protect the family does not do just that!

Anonymous  Posted: 08/07/2009 12:05

Again, very interestign Aanglea. I do know women tho who had low supply rightr from the start and 3 (onw was for medical reasons but the other two weren't) women who could not breastfeed and were actually advised by both their midwives and the lactation expert a tthe hospital to switch to formula, so I do know that it does happen. Very informative too on the subject of iron, I wonder tho why the iron in formjula is so poorly formaulated that the baby doies not absorb it?Fantstic information on pumping and returnign to work tho. This, I think ids the kind of information more breastfeeding mothjers should be aware of. I find the last part a bit contradictory tho' From 6mths a breastfed baby is on solids, and breastfeeds a lot less. Then you say a child is unlikely to self-wean at around a year old because self-weaning babies gets most of his nutrition from solids - but this would actually be the case for a baby who is on solids and who's diet of solids has gradually increased from around the 6 month ,mark when he started to the year old stage.

I haven't read that book Clemintine but if that is what she is implying, then franly not only is it not true - it is totally unhelpful and to be honest, off-putting, which presumably, is not her aim.

The point earlier about pumping just does not ring true to me. If how much milk can be pumped depends on the mother's stress level then surely how much a latched on babay can suck depnmds on this also. If anything a pump is goign to stress the mohter less than a screaming starvign baaby who cannot get enough milk or who cannot latch properly. Good info oin formula tho' and somethign I think that every mother who decides to breastfeed should be aware of. Actually, a breastfeedign mother does need to be careful about her diet as the fods she eats ar ethe ones the baby will be exposed to via breastmilk and can develop sensitivities to vcertain foods in the mothers diet. This, I would have thought, was quite well known. A breastfeeding mother does not need to drink milk in order to make milk but she does need to be very aware that her calcium needs are in fact highewr than a non-brastfeeding mother. These can be fulfilled by drinkign milk to by yogurt, cheese, goats milk or other sources. Spicy or strong foods will affect the breastmilk but that does not mean they should be eliminated. Wwith regard to drinking - not truek, I'm afraid. By the time the bdy needs to give you thirst signals, you are beyond the point where you first need fluids and have started the prcess of dehydrtion. Any medicaly qualified person I have come across encourages women to take a glass of water any time she brastfeeds or pumps. Breastmilk is a calorie dense fluid - in order for the body to produce fluids of any kind it needs to take in fluids. Great points in relation to alcohol and even smoking - as these are things that put some mothjers opff. Yes., it would be great if we could all give up everything that was ever bad for us forever, but it is great to see some acknowledgement that we are not perfect and motherhood does not make us so. " Breastfeeding is to blame when the mortgage rates go up and the economy is faltering" - that was said in ject I know but it made me smile - good to kepp out sense of humour oin perspective. Something you haven't taken into account tho - or maybe you have but it is something that is on womens minds also is that they cannot go back on the pill if they breastfeed. Wwhere the mini-pill od coil is not suitable, as it may not be for some women after birth a commonly held beleif is that they cannot go back on he pill and btreastfeed so they hold the beleif that breastfeeding just for the first six weeks - after which they will have to give it up just isn't worth it.

Anonymous  Posted: 06/07/2009 08:51

Hi Angela, great feedback on skin-to-skin contact and of course it's so much easier if the mother has had a relatively easy / straightforward birtht, to get breastfeeding established straight away., but remember even if a woman is too exhausted / ill to do so right away, many mothers do successfully manage to establish breastfeeding the day after the birth also, so just becuase a woman cannot do so straight away doesn';t mean she cannot try the next day and be successful.With regard to money to made, where breastfeeding benefits the baby, both nutritionally, emotionally and developmentally, surely there is money to Saved, when it conmes to babiues getting fewer babyhood illnesses. I agree that pumps and bottles are not an initial neccessity, but obviously if the aim is that the mother continues to breastfeed after 6 months, alongside solids, as you yourself did, then given that most women are back at work by then, then a pump and bottles are a neccessity -if, as you say, a women wants to continue breastfeeding.

Ange13  Posted: 05/07/2009 10:55

Hi again, I just want to add a few breastfeeding 'myths' that I hope you might find interesting.

clementine  Posted: 05/07/2009 07:23

Ange 13, thanks for the sling tip. the thing is that he's only three months and already 7 kilos! i had my first child in a sling for months but this one's a back breaker ;-) 

I have also read the gabrielle palmer book, and while i did think it was very good and really interesting, especially about infant formula marketing etc., and its effect on child mortality in developing countries (which i do think we tend to forget and not make a really causal link with. or forget that it's still happening.) i did find that she is quite aggressive when it comes to dismissing difficulties that people have.

" “Of course suckling may feel a little strange at first, as any new experience might. Some women may feel a little sore, but if the baby is well attached this decreases quickly. If it gets worse then there is a problem and urgent help is needed” (p.28)

seriously - that sounds to me just like all the other "if it hurts then you're doing it wrong" messages that i got. whatever about the first time around, i really felt like i knew what i was doing this time, i know what good attachment feels like, and it hurt just as much until my poor boobs got used to it again!

however i did agree with what she said about the lack of vsibility of breastfeeding women - it seems to be such a medicalised activity.

"Humans in most western societies cannot avoid images of sexual activity, but breastfeeding rarely occurs explicitly in films, magazines, television and daily life. Much of the imagery of breastfeeding information has presented it as a medical issue. Images of bottle feeding are all around us, one example being the universal bottle signs outside babycare rooms in shops and airports. In societies where breastfeeding is taken for granted and practised unselfconsciously and openly, women find it easier” (P.31)

and i agree with you about the pumping thing - i pumped a lot the last time because everyone had made me so paranoid that my first child wouldn't take a bottle if i didn't give her one every few days. looking back i think i was a bit sucked into the idea that even though i was breastfeeding i still had to have the bottles and all the paraphenalia. i've only expressed once this time in an attempt to get him to drink a bottle and then conk out rather than spending the evening feeding him. i bought a pump in the hospital first time around and i don't think i'll ever forget those first few days of complete misery, bleeding nipples and the nurses who kept offering "top ups" - i think they were just being kind, but they kept offering to take away my baby so that i could have a break, which made me feel like they didn't trust me and they didn't think i was really capable.   i just needed someone to say that it was all pretty normal and that it would settle down. 

Ange13  Posted: 04/07/2009 21:33

Hi anonymous,

Re: Milk Supply,  There is no reason why in normal circumstances that a woman shouldn't have a good milk supply.  The main reasons for ' poor milk supply' are - (1) Timing feeds on each breast, as in restricting baby to a number of minutes each side.  (2) Expressing ( unless for medical reasons) before 6-8wks. Although some women do this and have no problems. (3) The worst culprit of all, introducing formula.

Some, but very few women cannot breastfeed.  How is it that in many societies, 100% of poor, undernourished women all breastfeed easily, while in others, groups of privileged,well- nourished women BELIEVE they cannot??

Re: Iron,  Breastmilk contains just enough iron for the baby's needs.  If the baby is full term he will get enough iron from breastmilk to last him at least the first six months.  Formulas contain too much iron, but this quantity may be necessary to ensure the baby absorbs enough to prevent iron deficiency.  The iron in formula is poorly absorbed, and the baby poops out most of it.  Generally, there is no need to add other foods to breastmilk before about 6 months of age.  ( Dr Jack Newman)

Re: Work,  From 6mths a breastfed baby is on solids, and breastfeeds a lot less. It is possible to go back to work and continue to breastfeed.  I included the legislation to point out the rights women have. There are a few other options available,  a woman can pump, freeze milk and leave it with the creche/childminder, therefore the mother doesn't have to leave work,  or a woman can replace the daytime feed with formula/plain cows milk ( depending on the age) and continue to breastfeed morning and evening. 

 Re: Weaning, 

What is self-weaning?

A baby who is weaning on his own:

• is typically well over a year old (more commonly over 2 years)
• is at the point where he gets most of his nutrition from solids
• drinks well from a cup
• cuts down on nursing gradually

Child-led weaning occurs when a child no longer has a need to nurse - nutritionally or emotionally. The solids part should rule out self-weaning in babies under a year since, for optimum health and brain development, babies under a year should be getting most of their nutrition from breastmilk.

Angela

Anonymous  Posted: 02/07/2009 09:36

Hi Angela, that was interesting.

The majority of mothers are capable of breastfeeding their babies exclusively for about six months but I was pointing out that there are some women who have low supply and aren't able to exclusively breastfeed as much as needed and need to supplement with formula. And of course some womnenb who can't breastsfeed.

And there are some babies, depending on their development rate who do need more than breastmilk or formula alone at 4 or 5 months. The some who are are still perfectly well sustained by breastmilk or formula alone at 7 or 8 months. It's not really a one-size fits all. I do agree that all the emphasis on "routine" and "schedule" based on bottle feeding is very misplaced when it comes to women who are breastfeeding or even trying to breastfeed. 

If a breastfeedign mother is consuming foods the baby is sensitive to, then he or she still risks developing allergies to thiose foods becuase they are present in the breastmilk being consumed Delaying solids decreases the risk of food allergies.I had thought brastfed babaies were more likely to be iron-defiencient as formula is supplemented with iron but breastmilk, of coursem is not.

Among women I know,their babies self-weaned at around the year-mark, as the variety of solids increased as did their interest in other things, as they began walking. It is of course influrenced by yhr droip ina womens beastmilk around that time too.

Legislation is all very nice and grand afterlal gthe constitution states that all the children of the nation or cherished equally, but that is meaningless. Legislation is of litte use unless it is facilititated in a purely practical way.

Paid time off from work for the purpose of breastfeeding isa hardly practical if the crehe is 30 minutes or more away and feeding takes another 30 minutes, three times a day. That's three hours out of a work day and for women who are pumping, even if facilities are provided to pumpo and alos to store milk, there may well be times when fdue to work pressure, a woman simply does not have time in the day to pump a couple of times. This is reality, I'm afraid. 

Student midwife - anthopologival studies, surely are by their nature, or tribal peoples and therefore the same pattern would hardly apply industrialised developed societies. I was talking about thrf 11 to 13 month mark as a period of self weaning by the child, particularly as solids are introduced.

Ange13  Posted: 02/07/2009 09:34

On a more POSITIVE note!  I have to add that I think the midwives do a FANTASTIC job!

( seeing your name 'student midwife' reminded me of this)

On my first baby son, I was  lucky to have a fairly easy straightforward birth.  The support and encouragement  from the midwives was  excellent.  When my son was born we had ' skin to skin ' contact straight away, and we breastfed successfully in the delivery room.  ( The trick to breastfeeding is getting the baby to latch on well. A baby who latches on well gets milk well.)

On my next baby, again couldn't fault the midwives,  I didn't need any help latching on this time.  We had immediete skin to skin contact, I latched my daughter on myself and we co-slept together in the ward.

I am reading a book called ' The politics of Breastfeeding by Gabrielle Palmer', and I can tell you it's a real 'eye opener '.

The marketing of Formula has a huge influence on breastfeeding rates. After all the only ones that benefit from breastfeeding are  'mother and baby'  ( no money to be made there!)  Oh sorry yes there is!  We are now led to believe that in order to breastfeed we have to arm ourselves with breastpumps and bottles. ( keeping the money going!) This is well and good if the mother decides to do this, but it's not a neccessity.  I fell into this trap when pregnant with my first son, I honestly thought that pumps & bottles went hand in hand with breastfeeding.  I wasted a lot of money unneccessarily.

Rant over!!

Ange13  Posted: 01/07/2009 17:00

Hi Clementine,  have you tried using a sling?  I found this really helpful in the early days for keeping baby settled while looking after a busy toddler.

clementine  Posted: 30/06/2009 23:07

I think that breastfeeding will take a long time - a generation or two - to become reinstated as the norm. i think that most health professionals are encouraging and try to support women but it won't really start to change until we start seeing it in the community, in public. i have breastfed everywhere, but there are some places i have felt far more comfortable than others.  i am breastfeeding my second child now and finding it a lot harder than the first time around - not because of lack of milk or anything like that but he would be happy if i just stayed in bed all day with him and fed him and i just don't have the time because i'm trying to run after the toddler all the time!! i hate the fact that feeding in public still seems to be such a big deal, discretion seems to be a big thing.

Ange13  Posted: 30/06/2009 18:36

Anonymous,  just supplied a few facts below that I hope you may find interesting.

The vast majority of mothers are perfectly capable of breastfeeding their babies exclusively for about six months. In fact, most mothers should be able to produce more than enough milk. Unfortunately, outdated hospital policies and routines based on bottle feeding still predominate in too many health care institutions and make breastfeeding difficult.even impossible, for too many mothers and babies.

The following organizations recommend that all babies be exclusively breastfed (no cereal, juice or any other foods) for the first 6 months of life (not the first 4-6 months):

• World Health Organization
• UNICEF

Reasons for delaying solids

Delaying solids gives baby greater protection from illness.

Delaying solids gives baby's digestive system time to mature.

Delaying solids decreases the risk of food allergies.

Delaying solids helps to protect baby from iron-deficiency anemia.

Delaying solids makes starting solids easier.

Re self weaning : True SELF-weaning before a baby is a year old is very uncommon. In fact, it is unusual for a baby to wean before 18-24 months unless mum is encouraging weaning.

Breastfeeding at work

The Maternity Protection (Amendment) Act was introduced last year to make things easier for breastfeeding mothers. It states they are entitled to paid time off from work for the purpose of breastfeeding or the expression of breast milk in the form of one 60-minute break, two 30-minute breaks; three 20-minute breaks or an alternative number to be agreed between the employee and her employer. The employer is also obliged to provide a suitable area for this purpose..

(The above is an Irish legislation )

Ange

StudentMidwife  Posted: 30/06/2009 17:42

As someone who has BF a number of children I have some reservations over the suggestion that full time work inhibits BF.  I attended fulltime study, often with no breaks and still maintained BF my son.

Also anthropological studies suggest natural weaning occurs between 3.5years and 7 years. (Katherine Detwyller)  Certainly not as early as has been suggested here.  The earlier time suggest parent/societal led weaning not natural infant led weaning.

Anonymous  Posted: 30/06/2009 14:02

Didn't see the show on TV3 as I'm never there during weekdays. Glad it was positive tho'. It may be rare that a woman doesn't have enough milkbut I knoew several women who had low supply and werewn't able to exclusively breastfeed as much as was needed and had to supplement with formula as there wasn't any other answer.

Breastmilk alone might be enough to sustain some babies until 6mths but there are some who develop faster and do need more than breastmilk or formula alone at 4 or 5 months. Most babaiens self-wean at arounf the 11 to 13 months mark anyway - even if breastfeedign was sustainable beyond that, which for most women it really isn't.

Unless you have your own office or are  ecxtremely flexible in your work schedule - which many many women aren't, then pumping during work hours (provided a woman can pump) won't be real possibility. It would be a nice aspiration if all women who wanted to, could take a full years maternity leave but for the vast majority of women in industry, this just isn't a possibility.

Ange13  Posted: 29/06/2009 18:43

Student Midwife,  That was a fantastic discussion on tv3.  It was refreshingly positive regarding breastfeeding. 

Anonymous,  First of all it is rare that a woman doesn't ' have enough milk'. Building a good milk supply works on a ' supply and demand " basis as in the more you feed the more milk you make. Even giving one bottle of formula a day sends signals to your body to produce less milk and unfortunately a lot of mothers don't realise this untill it's too late.  So formula is not the answer.

Re : " Fair play to you for breastfeeding after six months - even when your child was on solids".

Breastmilk alone is definitely enough to sustain a baby until 6mths ( WHO recommends this).  After 6mths solids supplement breastmilk for the first year, meaning that their main source of nutrition still comes from breastmilk. The recommended age is now 2yrs and beyond once mother and baby are happy to continue breastfeeding.

Returning to work doesn't mean that breastfeeding has to end.  After 6mths when solids are introduced the number of breastfeeds are reduced.  Some women express milk for a daytime feed or some supplement with formula. A lot of women take extra maternity leave and go back to work when their baby is 12mths old and continue to breastfeed morning and evening only.

Angela

StudentMidwife  Posted: 08/06/2009 12:00

Good article on The Morning Show on TV3 today...

Anonymous  Posted: 08/06/2009 11:57

Hi Angela, profesionals advise mothers to top up feeds with formula incases where the women milk is simply not enough to feed the child and lets face it, a baby screaming with hunger is simply not good for baby or mother and the resulting stress may do more to damage her milk supply. Some babies may e ready to move onto solids at 4 or 5 months as breastmilk may simply not be enough to sustain them. Then of course there are some women who cannot brestfeed or who javge to give up breastfeedign for medical reasons. Fair play to you for breastfeeding after six months - even when your child was on solids but remember most women return to work at 6 month when their maternity leave is over so breastfeeding may no longer be an option for them.

Ange13  Posted: 06/06/2009 18:06

Hi haven't had time to read all the posts but just to clarify that 'solids supplement breastfeeding for the first year and not the other way around'!

I think that bf rates are low in Ireland because of a number of different factors.

I think a lot of women want to bf but are often let down by the system. I know from talking to so many mum's that wanted to bf and were given bad advice from hospital staff and phn's. Women are encouraged to bf when pregnant but there's no support when they have their babies. Conflicting advice is often given when breastfeeding problems occur.

WHO recommends that all babies be exclusively breastfed for the first 6mths of life ( no formula, water, solids etc) but more often our ' health professionals' are routinely advising new mums to 'top up' with formula in the early days when mums should be building up their milk supply by excl bf on demand!  Unfortunately then their milk supply can drop and they end up moving to formula completely.

I bf my ds for 13mths and am currently bf my dd of almost 12mths and am going to continue until at least 2yrs. I have breastfed in public discreetly, not so much now as when they get older the feeds are less often.

Anonymous  Posted: 02/03/2009 14:12

Purple, for women who are new to breastfeeding it might not be all that easy to get the baby latched on, hold the baby and also "cover up" simply to avoid oyther mothers sensibilities. These women should be getting encouragement not disapproving looks. Also there's the fact that some babies simply won't tolerate being covered up during nursing. You surely don't expect nursing mothers to be prisoners in her own home and if a mother cannot breastfeed her child, as intended by nature at a pre or post-natal or baby clinic, of all places then where on earth can she?

Lou  Posted: 02/03/2009 14:06

I disagree. I dont see anything wrong with breastfeeding in public, as most women that I have seen doing it ARE very discreet. If you dont want to see, dont look! I used to live in town off a very busy street with pubs and clubs etc and people used to urinate on our front door so to be honest, there are far worse things that people do!

purple  Posted: 01/03/2009 23:05

woman have a right to breast feed their children, but not in a place where others can see in my opinion. i was up in my clinic one day and this woman just took her boob out. all could see. i was not impressed. ok a woman has every right to feed her child anywhere, but please cover up.

Anonymous  Posted: 17/10/2008 08:21

The thing is Clementine, people who are pro- breastfeeding, to the point of evangelism! (often referred to as breast-feeding nazi's) are precisely what would put me and a whole host of other women off breastfeedign entirely. Fo someone to take that attitude with me would have me reaching for the bottle straight away. That said brastfeeding for 16 months is one heck of an achievement. Most women who do it would do it for 6 months as that is the length of maternity leave and to honest, a baby is goign to going onto solids at 6 - 8 months anyway and breastfeeding is just supplementing that. There are also contraceptive issues as well as social and work issues to be considered.

clementine  Posted: 15/10/2008 23:16

i've just been reading this topic because i would like to do a bit of research in this area, specifically on why there seems to such a difference in rates of breastfeeding between different socio-economic groups in ireland, and maybe on some other elements too. i am just beginning to read about this whole thing, and am intrigued by the range of opinion! it is obviously a very emotive subject, which reflects the sort of opinions i have come across myself, amongst friends and family, and the odd nosey stranger. my own experiences of breast feeding were very positive, i fed my daughter for 16 months. having said that, there were lots of things about b-feeding that i wasn't prepared for e.g. the pain, bleeding nipples...i think it was the worst pain i have ever experienced. if hadn't been so stubborn, and felt under pressure i might not have continued - from family, friends, not to mention all the literature i had read pre-birth. also by time time it settled down (in my case, luckily it only took about a week or ten days) i had started attending a breastfeeding support group, which was invaluable, but that was more for the social outlet than for the breastfeeding thing. i was lucky to have been living in a district with wonderful p.h.nurses, and this group of lovely women who were all in the same boat. however, i can't pretend that i felt neutral about it - everyone around me seemed to be so pro- breastfeeding, to the point of evangelism! and it definitely influenced my views on it too - i did find that once the feeding settled down i really was so glad i had persevered, and i was so so glad i didn't have to deal with bottles and sterilising. but i found (and i'm sure that women who bottle feed have the inverse experience) that people who stopped feeding earlier than me or who formula fed from the start were not at all careful about what they said to me e.g. "we can't all be earthmothers!" was one that stuck in my mind, whereas i feel that maybe people tiptoe around formula feeding mothers - the criticisms seem to be implicit rather than explicit. an element to this whole debate is the competitive nature of childrearing that seems to be quite a dominant, yet latent issue. is it because there is so much pressure on mothers from a wider perspective e.g. food: you should only give your child organic carrots or something; work: it's not enough to be raising the next generation, people still ask "are you working?"; is it because people are having children later, people are better education and are used to competitive working environments and then transfer that to the home? has it always been like this? does anyone agree or disagree with me about any of this?!

pento  Posted: 10/10/2008 09:00

Lack of hospital support

mary  Posted: 25/09/2008 20:39

breastfeeding is very time consuming. Most women either choose to spend their time doing other things, or cannot afford not to be working. breastfeeding also affects a woman's emotional life sometimes, and she wants to return to a normal life.

Sarah (DIS75015)  Posted: 10/09/2008 00:06

OKay I've read all of this discussion and I would just like to say that as most of you have that Breastfeeding is a choice and it can be a very hard one for some mothers. I recently gave birth to my now 5 month old daughter and found that the hospital staff were extremly supportive when I choose to breastfeed if not a bit shocked as I was only 24. When my daughter 1st latched on I was delighted that she took to it so well. As the days went by in the hospital again I can only praise the staff. The gave me great encouragment and said that if I had any problems I should call them and speak to one of the midwives and if I needed a bottle or anything to just ask. But the whole time they praised the fact that I was breastfeeding. I found my difficulties came when I started to get visitors. I'm a sports player and as I undress in frnt of 15 women weekly during training and matches I'm not the most shy person. But what I came across really pissed me off. When I said I needed to feed my daughter people (men especially would just say "Ah I'll leave you too it" or "I'll take a walk"). In particular my brother (a 31 year old man who's girlfriend as recently given birth to their son and had tried breastfeeding), kept saying "ah that's my sisters boob I just can't handle it". How ridiculous is that? The only man except from my husband who I fed my daughter comfortably in front of was my farther. Who just said "well sure it's natural and beautiful, to see you doing it". Anyone else including some female friends wouldn't make eye contact with me when I was feeding and made me feel very uncomfortable. That all said no of this stopped me from feeding. It was an illness I have 'Chrons Diease' that stopped me in the end I went as long as possible without my medication but was forced to stop feeding and take my drugs. All that said I really really enjoyed my experience and yes my boobs are a little sagger since but what do I care they fed my little one for 3 months. Work and BFing just doesn't work though and in this economy I don't think many can afford to take the extra 3 months unpaid. I would love to feed for much longer on my next child but for all I know my next little one might not be interested in the boob at all... Some children can, some children can't, some women can, some women can't, some woman choose not too and some choose to do it. It's my motto that what ever works for you and your little one is ultimatly best for you... But I must say... I hate serilizing and making those bloody bottles... It's enough to drive anyone mad. If anyone out there has any idea how to make the irish public change their views and ideas on BFing please put them to someone with a bit of pull in that area because I still know of so many women who won't BF because it's too tabu. That's just my opinion though!

Anonymous  Posted: 12/08/2008 15:21

Our rates are low because in countries such as the UK, the rates are artificially high! It is the practice in many British hospitals to put the baby to the breast within half an hour of birth, often without consultation or reference to the mother's wishes. At this point the mother is recorded as having initiated breastfeeding- regardless of the mother's intentions or whether the baby has actually successfully latched on. It is also a common practice to lie to midwives and other health care professionals about breastfeeding- for instance, my British cousin, who is a solicitor, said she had breastfed for three months when in reality she had breastfed for two weeks. She said that is what everyone does because of the attitude of staff towards mothers who formula feed. She said all her friends would hide bottles and formula whenever a midwife or health visitor came to the house! What is worrying is the tension created between mothers and health care professionals who have managed to alienate themselves from those they are paid to help and advise. This moralising attitude about breastfeeding does nothing to improve rates of breastfeeding- the figures look 'better' but in reality little has changed and women who wish to breastfeed continue to receive little support or help to do so. I fear that this will happen here so that we 'look better'. As for respect for the individual mother and her wishes, that goes out of the window in a bid to improve rates- it has now sadly become political issue.

Louise (EXH72940)  Posted: 06/08/2008 12:17

I would like to see a higher rate of breast feeding in this country, but never having had a baby myself, I dont feel that it is my place to judge. Although health experts will sing about the associated pros, I believe that any woman who carries a baby and goes through labour to give that baby life, deserves a pat on the back anyway, in spite of how she choses to feed that baby. I know from seeing my best friend become a first time mum how difficult it can be. She has persevered, and is still breastfeeding him at 3 1/2 months, but she suffered a lot of stress after his birth and nearly lost her milk. I think some people don't realise how easily this can happen, and new mums don't need the stress of being told what to do!

9.20  Posted: 06/08/2008 12:00

Karen you hit the nail on the head: a more positive birth experience, which has been mentioned by other posts, does increase the likelihood of successful breastfeeding - for those who desire to do so. Peraps this needs to be learned by rote by all the maternity car staff in this country. Another word you mentioned - Respect - respect for the choice the women makes with regard to feeding her baby and Respect with regard to the choices she maks for her labour and birth. Not every birth will be test book and not every birth will be complication free but respect for the choices and wishes of the birthing women would go a LONG way. Perhaps staff need to be reminded that it is still her body and to deny an epidural to a public patient and thus leaving her in agony - or pushing medication on a woman who does not feel she needs it will stress and traumatise a woman to the point where after the birth the last thing she needs is further exhaustion, stress and truama in attempting to breastfeed when she is in pain ans weak. These are just two example- just two I have come across where women wanted to breastfeed but the trauma of the birth experience meant it was absolutly the last thing on their mind afterwards. There are of course other cases where a woman wants to breastfeed but for whatever reason, cannot do so. Pushing women in these circumstances serves only to alienate them.

karen (GZH73237)  Posted: 05/08/2008 19:20

Hi there Anon 09.20- sorry if my post was insensitive to those whose experiences haven't been what they should be. I was trying to be upbeat because I know many people who work very hard in the system and I supposed having the lowest rate in the World is at least something to be positive about. The comparison was also made with the UK and the States and not just the Developing World. The example of the Sierra Leone was just a reminder of how dangerous giving birth can be without, amongst other things, appropriate medical interventions. Our luck being that we do live in a relatively wealthy country, where the spectre of death in childbirth isn't something pregnant women live in fear of. My own mother was very frightened of giving birth because her grandmother had died in childbirth, which wasn't that unusual at the time. However, that is not to say that things on other fronts shouldn't be improved. Indeed, women can be left traumatised by the attitude of some staff when giving birth and that includes those who do not respect the wishes of the mother in feeding choices. I would be interested in hearing how you think things should be improved. I suspect that much has to do with inequality of care, some have positive experiences, whilst others certainly don't. Certainly a more positive birth experience, which has been mentioned by other posts, does increase the likelihood of successful breastfeeding for those who desire to do so.

Theresa (CER69203)  Posted: 05/08/2008 18:41

It is a shame this discussion has disolved to personal comments level. I reiterate, it is the mothers CHOICE as to whether she breast feeds or not. Reasons for not breastfeeding are varied. But for the most part embarrassment plays a large part (please see the poll conducted on this thread). Lack of post natal support is another. Mothers who WANT to breast feed often find they get home from hospital to a lack of support from the medical profession... At that point family members see the distress of the mother and suggest formula feeding. If there was support for mothers after leaving hospital then many would continue to breast feed beyond their stay in hospital. Yes some women choose not to breast feed, their choice and yes their loss in my opinion. However its is just that, THEIR choice. I am totally supportive of mothers who choose to breast feed and their right to do that where ever and when ever they want. My problem is with those who have issues with mother who do breastfeed. If a mother chooses to formula feed then again she should be provided with the information and advice to be able to make up, store and feed fomula safely. FGS, surely this forum is about trying to find ways to encourage and support mothers to breastfeed as it is the best way to feed.

Anonymous  Posted: 05/08/2008 09:20

Well said Anon 16:25/. Karen given the horrific way I know of so many women having been treated in the Irish public maternity system we most certainly are not lucky by any means compared to other EU countries such as Sweden of France. Coparing us with war torn 3rd world countries is both an insult and frankly unrealistic. It's rahter like tellign someone with a compound fracture they are lucky conpared to an ebola victim. A low maternal death rate should be the absolute Miniimum standard. There are women who have been injured in childbirth ehre but it is to be remembered that women in the develoing world who end up with fistulas do soas a result of mismanaged birth and extreme youth or malnourishment combined with barbaric practises such as FGM. There is no comparison with birth in the developed world. breastfeeding is best for children - provided the mother can do so, and do so without the extreme difficulties I mentioned and wishes to do so - a choice which is her, her alone, and franky no one elses business. The experiences of most friends, relatives and colleagues had little or nothing to do with embarrassment but more with the factors I mentioned.

Anonymous  Posted: 03/08/2008 23:44

breast feeding should be better supported by the hospital maternity team and also in the community. new mothers when they come home don't have a trained professional nurse or anyone to be able to contact outside call on days. when nervous new mothers are tired and having problems,and also the non exceptance in different places to feed the child due to the stigma attached makes it difficult to feed in a stress less environment,and stress does not help when breast feeding. there needs to be more awareness made about the benefits of breast feeding and more places available to nursing mothers. but again this is down to our health promotion team who dont appear to be doing any thing to promote increased uptake on breast feeding. HSE again no wonder this area is also not doing well

Anonymous  Posted: 03/08/2008 21:05

Theresa- you clearly didn't read the websites suggested; there were about the inequality of care in the UK- all but two London hospitals, for example, were rated unsatisfactory in terms of care. If you had positive experiences, good for you! However, those who have suffered poor care and birth trauma often suffer in silence and don't go around 'emphatically over emphasising them'. Most feel extremely isolated. The ironic thing that all your research hasn't shown that those having poor birth experiences are also least likely to breastfeed. I would suggest some more studies and information to look at, but then as you said you don't need to educate yourself, as your own experiences are all you need to go on here?! As for most English people don't care, who's being Anti-British now! Good luck to you nevertheless.

Anonymous  Posted: 03/08/2008 19:03

Theresa, As for assuming- you have done nothing but assume- please read the post 29/7/08 15:05 for why women don't breastfeed and other excellent posts on the subject. In UK, breastfeeding rates are also low - less than 50% are breastfed after 2 weeks and the rates drop off significantly. I also disagree that only horror stories get published. I have read nothing but positive stories in pregnancy magazines. Most who suffer birth trauma often feel extremely isolated. It is good to hear that your experiences have been so positive, but alas you should not deny and be flippantly disrespectful of those whose experiences haven't been what they might have hoped. A little more understanding and basic respect for others and their choices on your part is needed, then you might encourage more breastfeeding instead of alienating people with your aggressive and patronising tone. Good luck to you

Theresa (CER69203)  Posted: 01/08/2008 18:35

Anonymous, Having given birth to 5 children in the UK system, I think I know first hand how it works and really dont need to educate myself!!! I can speak with experience of having babies over 3 decades and both hospital and home births. Yes there are countless horror stories but have you not noticed that its only the horror stories that ever get published? Sadly in both cultures, Irish and English, morbid pleasure is enjoyed by listening to 'bad' news. If someone talks about something they have experienced that is good/exciting/etc, they are boasting. We never take pleasure in enjoying the positive achievements and learning from the negative without emphatically over-emphasising them. As for your statement about historical facts that British people wouldnt deny, which facts are you talking about? If you are talking about the oppression that was suffered during the 17/18/19 century, then you are sadly mistaken. Most Brits dont have a clue and worse still dont care. However like most things in the past its something we should all learn from and put the experience to POSITIVE use. You are also making assumptions about my culture...do you know what it is? I am not sure I know so please do not assume! You know what they say about the word 'assume'. Whichever way you look at it, scientific fact is that breastfeeding is best for children. FACT, scientifically proven. Nearly every mother CAN breastfeed. Not many CHOOSE to breastfeed, sadly. Various studies prove (inlcuding my own) that the choice is based on, amongst other reasons, embarrassment and lack of support.

karen (GZH73237)  Posted: 01/08/2008 18:07

There is much griping at the Irish Maternity system here- we have no idea how lucky we are. We have the lowest maternal death rate in the World- 1 in 47, 600!! That is much lower than the UK and the United States. Please compare to some countries such as Sierra Leone where maternal death rates are as high as 1 in 6! That is not to mention those who are injured in Childbirth. There are 2 million women world wide living with fistula and whose quality of life is pitiful as a result! We should be proud of our system- it wasn't too many decades ago when we had the highest rates of infant mortality in Europe.

Anonymous  Posted: 01/08/2008 16:25

Theresa - you are so sadly misinformed about the British system. I gave birth in England and got less support for breastfeeding than my friends got in Ireland. As for access to midwife care for 28 days- I don't knno one woman who got more than a couple of visits. I didn't even have a midwife with me in hospital until I was fully dilated and initially had to go into a bathroom until rooms had been cleared! There have been many high profile stories about the inadequacy of maternity care in the UK- maybe you should educate yourself on the matter by going on the BBC website. I really think that the previous post had a good point- yes we can learn from other cultures but I'm also fed up with people like you, who are clearly embarrassed about your own culture. The post was stating a historical reality that people in the UK wouldn't deny. As for the post where the woman wanted to slap a woman for giving her opinion- how Nazi is that?!! At the end of the day, it is the business of the mother how she feeds her child. I really think there are too many busybodies trying to preach the gospel according to them rather than minding their own business- get on with the business of raising your own children and not other people's.

Anonymous  Posted: 29/07/2008 15:05

Breastfeeding is the norm is other cultures but to tell grown women - mothers that they "SHOULD" be doing this or that which they aren't doing serves only two purposes - attempting to either make them feel guilty - or results in them telling you they'll do as they see fit - neither of these facilitates or encourages breastfeeding. All attempts at compulsion lead to. in adults, is them becoming more entrenched in doing as they already are. To say "99% of women can do it" is a misnomer - and a very convenient figure but even if that were the case, you are attempting to take choice away. Not all of the theoretical 99% may WANT to do it and it is their choice. I have come across half a dozen reasons for not brastfeeding in my own walk of life and none of them stem from embarrassment, especially given that it can be done discretely in public and once a woman gets used to it and skilled at it, passers-by may not even know she is doing anything other than cuddling her baby. The reasons included - pain, in some cases a pain worse than labour in attempting to brastfeed and lets be honest a mother crying and in pain and a baby screaming with hunger is not good for any women or any child. Low milk suppy, exhaustion, breast problems such as milk not coming in, mastitis and bleeding or cracked nipples. A desire to get her own body back after 9 months or longer, a baby not taking to the breast, the conveneince of being able to bottle feed when she is away, not being tied to the baby 24 X 7 where she is the only one who can feed him and thus all the responsibility for night feeds rests with her, wanting her partner to be involved in feeding, body image issus such as sagging and distension. But ultimately all these reasons are her own and she is entitled to them. More support and free access to a midwife and lactation staff for 28 days after the birth is an excellent idea for women who want to breastfeed and can be sucessful at it. But pressuring women achieves nothing, especially women as vulnerable as new mothers. You wanted to slap the woman - for expressing the reason why she didn't want to beasstfeed/. How DARE you - it is any wonder women don't breastfeed with attitudes like that. To compare the abiliy to beastfeed with the ability to walk past chocolate really shows ignorance.

amk  Posted: 29/07/2008 12:52

I absolutely agree with Theresa. The UK system is very good and it's a pity we don't have more of that here. Ireland is a bit of a joke with regard to breastfeeding, unfortunately. The foreign doctors in the hospitals don't believe any of us do it here - I heard a doctor comment "Irish women don't breastfeed". Sadly the HSE doesn't sell the idea to Irish women and it's such a pity because it is the most natural thing in the world and so rewarding. But as I said before, it is difficult to learn and does require a huge amount of determination. There are very very few mothers who can't physically breastfeed. I met women whose babies were in special care unit when I was in hospital and they were pumping milk for their babies. Now that was difficult. But fair play to them, they did it. I'm not trying to judge women who don't feed. My own sister didn't, neither did my mother but I also met women in the hospital (coz I had the pleasure of spending 3 weeks in the place) who said "There's no point in me breastfeeding because when I go home, I'll only go to the bottle. I'm not having the baby hanging off my tit all day!" I swear that's true. I wanted to slap the woman. Why have the baby if it's so inconvenient! We can do anything we want. I can't walk past a bar of chocolate, but that's in my head. Of course I could if I was totally determined. Same with breastfeeding. Like it or lump it. That's how it works! I was tempted 5 million times in the hospital when I was bawling my head off with hormones, to just get a bottle, but I just kept thinking of the composition of formula milk and how it's so totally different from breast milk and I just kept going. That doesn't make me any better than other woman, just luckier! If we were told the facts about the composition of formula milk, more women would be equally determined. They are not almost the same as breast milk. Not even nearly. The long term benefits to children who were breastfed as babies aren't widely enough known either. The HSE is not doing it's job properly. That's why women aren't breastfeeding in Ireland. More of them would love to. For the ones who don't want to do it, fine, but don't be so negative about those of us who do. We need encouragement, so I stand by my opinion that women who breastfeed should be given an extra month paid maternity leave and that would certainly encourage more women to try it and to keep going. I'm back to work now for the past 4 weeks and my supply seems to have changed to accomodate the duration between feeds. I still bring the pump to work, but thank God I'm not having to use it. I was really worried about that, but the body always seems to change according to it's needs. It's a little miracle really. Best of luck to the ladies about to have babies. I wish you many years of joy. If you want to breastfeed, try to go to a meeting before the baby is born so that you can be informed before you're thrown in at the deep end. Then make the decision that's best for your baby and for you. There's loads of support out there if you know where to get it. Don't listen to the knockers (as it were!) you'll be fantastic!

Theresa (CER69203)  Posted: 28/07/2008 23:11

The whole 'if you dont like what we do-get lost' attitude is very upsetting. Its also a shame that many people havent moved on from the whole 'we hate the Brits' ideology. There is a lot to be learned from other cultures and the fact that breastfeeding is- and should be the norm, is one of them. The fact proven by the poll and also by my own research this year is that women are embarrassed about breast feeding per se. That is a cultural thing, based partly on Catholic ideology....and I am not 'Catholic bashing' here, I am Catholic. What does need to be taught to and learnt is that breastfeeding is the most natural thing a mother can do to feed her child and 99% of women can do it. The problem is that its not easy, it takes hard work and is a labour of love. Like labour itself. You need to be determined and persistent and most importantly have support, and this is where many problems begin. Women havent seen or experienced breastfeeding in a positive light. They are not prepared to learn more about the function of the breast and the reasoning & science behind breastfeeding. Nursing staff in hospitals are so busy they do not have the time to dedicate to helping each individual in the early and most important days of breastfeeding. I could go on but as the previous poster has and issue with the Briish I think I will end on the note that the UK system allows for a mother to have free access to a midwife for 28 days after the birth of their child. If neccessary a midwife will come in daily and provide support to a mother in establishing breastfeeding. In addition to this a Public Health Nurse (Health Visitor) is available to the mother from birth until the child reaches school age (and sometimes beyond) to provide further support. Not all things are good about the British systems, but as I mentioned initially, we should be learning from other cultures and not making the same mistakes and developing on their strengths.

Anonymous  Posted: 27/07/2008 14:36

Elina- this is Ireland! We have suffered centuries of oppression from the British who also thought they knew better! Saying that someone who chooses to formula feed their child can unfit mother is outrageous. How dare you come here and call us unfit mothers! May I suggest that if you don't like how we do things here- go elsewhere! Incidently- look at the figures- our children are healthier and our average BMI is better than your's.

Anonymous  Posted: 07/07/2008 12:39

Amk, it is wonderul that you have an extended breastfeedign relationship with your baby. Many mother go on to breastfeed to the 6month point (atthe end of their maternity) leave and switch to formula ot combine with solids at the pint. Kudos to you. But remember that, regardlessof how much determination they have, many women simply cannot breasteed - I know two of them. So it is a vast asimplification to say that as long as you have a milk supply you can breastfeed. Interestingly one had it confirmed, by both the midwife and lactation nurse that her being small breasted did make breastfeeding more difficult. Others simply decide to formula feed from the start - and hence will need formula fromthe get-go. As for hopitals only giving out formual as a last resort - this is simply untenable, lads to distraiught mothers, screaming hungry babies and in some cases dehydrated babies. remove choice from mothers like that and you'll find more of them baulking at breastfeeding. I know many quiet contented babies with no illness who were formula fed and while breastfeeding is best - it is provided the mother an and actually wants to do it. No, I disagree vehemently there - if it were to encouage breastfeedign for mothers who can and want to, ireland should allow ALL mothers an extra month paid maternity leave.

amk  Posted: 04/07/2008 21:49

My baby is almost 10 months old and I'm still breastfeeding her. It really is the most rewarding thing in the world. It's very difficult to learn for the first few days and hospital staff are often too busy to help, but find the breastfeeding nurse and, if possible, a breastfeeding room in the hospital. You really need to be determined for it to work. Remember, the baby is only learning too, so try to have patience. I think hospitals are too quick to give out formula. This should be a last resort. Believe me, it gets so much easier and it is most definitely easier than getting up in the middle of the night to wash and sterilise bottles and make up formula. You can go anywhere and not have to worry about bringing bottles or getting home in time to make bottles. I feed in public regularly and I've never had a negative comment. In fact, some people are very encouraging. I've even fed in Mass! I have very large breasts (which does not make me a better feeder) and I was very worried about public feeding but it's amazing how quickly you can learn to be discrete and most people don't even notice you doing it. My baby never got a cold despite the fact that I got a very nasty one at Xmas. She's a very contented, quiet baby and didn't have colic. All because of breastfeeding. She didn't become fat and it will lessen her chances of obesity in later years. More importantly, it will lower her chances of getting many deadly diseases. It will also lower my chances of getting oseoporosis and breast cancer. Big plus - it burns up to 500 calories a day!! If you do it, you will never be sorry. Express with a pump if you really find it too difficult to learn. As long as you have a milk supply, you can learn and teach baby. Ireland should allow breastfeeding mothers an extra month paid maternity leave. This would encourage more mothers to try it and continue for as long as possible. I'm just back at work now and trying to express. It's very difficult.

barbie86  Posted: 27/03/2008 20:56

Breastfeeding is a very personal choice. I think there are a few factors which contribute to low breastfeeding rates: embarrassment might be one, as breastfeeding is no longer considered the norm: mums might worry they're being stared at, or that people disapprove (fears which unfortunately are not always unfounded). I think there is also a lack of support and information. It's kind of 'breast is best' and then that's it: no practical support on the best way to do it, how to deal with related problems like mastitis, what to do if your baby isn't latching on etc. Lack of support on the part of friends and relatives can also play a part IMO. If a woman is surrounded by people who bottle feed, she may be less inclined to breast feed. Women who have been breastfed as babies tend to be more likely to breastfeed than those who haven't. There can also be an issue with the woman's partner; some men can be quite weird about breastfeeding, and find it puts them off sex. These are all quite big issues. I think too that some women just don't like the idea, which is fair enough: breastfeeding isn't for everyone; many women want to 'reclaim' their bodies after the traumas of pregnancy and childbirth, and don't want the added demand of breastfeeding and the problems that can come with it. Nutritionally speaking, yes, breast is generally best. But it's important to look at the wider picture. Women should be given support and information, and something should be done to start changing societies attitudes to breastfeeding. But no woman who decides against breastfeeding should be bullied or belittled for her decision. If breastfeeding is making a woman miserable, it will not make for a healthy, happy mother-baby relationship, which surely is the most important thing. I intend to give breastfeeding a go, and hopefully I'll be able to do it for around 6 months. BUT, if it doesn't work out, and I decide to stop, I'm not going to let people criticise me for it.

Ann  Posted: 27/03/2008 16:02

In response to Angelfalling Posted: 26/03/2008 19:08 Before you call something someone else has posted as nonsense you should do some research. Recent research has proven that breast fed babies of asthmatic mothers have a higher risk of suffering from asthma. I'm pro-choice, like Alison and Anonymous on this but being so adamant that you are right, without ever bothering to check your facts is what puts Mothers off. You can't force a Mother to do something by bullying them into thinking that if they don't do it, that they are a "bad Mother". Who cares what our figures are? Its not a competition with other countries. It is down to personal choice by a Mother and they should be supported in whatever decision they make. There is no wrong decision.

Anonymous  Posted: 27/03/2008 08:41

I agree Alison, breast feeding is only right and appropriate if it is what is right and appropriate for an individual and each Mother, being an individual should be respected and treated like as such, regardless of whether she chooses formula or breast feeding. Perhaps it is this culture of "should" and "must" and "ought to" that contributes so highly to Ireland's low breastfeeding rate becase that in culture is an inherent lack of respect.

Angelfalling  Posted: 26/03/2008 19:08

Mothers who breastfed babies who have asthma put their kids at risk for asthma? NONSENSE. This is one of the reasons Ireland has a low bf rate-- misinformation. Breastfeeding actually reduces the likelihood of allergy and asthma. Asthma is often influenced by genetics. If you have asthma, you SHOULD breastfeed to lower their chances of suffering from it too.

Alison  Posted: 29/02/2008 18:45

To my knowledge, babies who are breast fed by asthmatic Mothers are more at risk of developing asthma. Therefore it makes common sense that if you suffer from asthma you should not breast feed. That is just one reason why breast feeding should not be expected across the board. Like all other care, breast feeding is only right and appropriate if it is what is right and appropriate for an individual and each Mother should be respected and treated like an individual regardless of whether she chooses formula or breast feeding.

Anonymous  Posted: 26/02/2008 15:19

I think Therese, by advising health professionals thus you are inviting them into the trap which so many health professionals are already falling They assume: the woman will try for a 'natural' birth They assume: the woman will want to try to 'manage' (whatever that is supposed to mean) without pain releif They assume: various things about everything from contraceptive pills to epidurals to HRT. Each step of the managing to alienate themselves from the woman and appear anything from presumptious to arrogant. Asking Informing and Discussing treats the woman like an inteligent human being and an equal - this is Respect. Something that many (tho not all) of the medical profession should learn.

Theresa (CER69203)  Posted: 26/02/2008 12:30

There is an Association of Lactation Consultants in Ireland. Try alcireland.ie I cant agree or disagree with any of the comments about pressure to breast feed as I had a home birth. However I dont think the question should be asked at all and that the health professional should assume the mother will breastfeed.

Ann  Posted: 02/03/2007 19:45

To Anonymous Posted: 11/02/2007 17:24 You are the complete voice of reason and I agree with you 110%. The La Leche lot are doing more harm than good in my opinion with all the pressure they put on. Same story here. 3 children. The only 1 that was exclusively breast fed, gave me the most bother and was constantly hungry and crying. Never had a minutes comfort with that child until I put him on a bottle and then he was fine. According to the LL League I broke all the rules anyway so wasted my time breast feeding. They put the pressure on but they are nowhere in sight when there is a problem with the child or if the child has an illness.

Anonymous  Posted: 01/03/2007 15:03

Anonymous Posted: 11/02/2007 17:24, well said. YOu literally took the words oout of my mouth.

Anonymous  Posted: 11/02/2007 17:24

I think, as a mother of 3, that one of the main reasons people in Ireland don't breastfeed is the huge pressure they are put under by the likes of La Leche league and others. You are asked at your first hospital appointment if you intend to breastfeed and from there on in the pressure is on to stick to your decision. I didn't feel there was any help available to me when I tried to feed my kids, just pressure and tremendous guilt heaped upon me if I found it too difficult and gave them a bottle. To the other annonymous, you have nothing to feel bad about if you bottle fed your child. As long as she is happy and healthy you are doing your job properly. Can I also say that my 3rd child was the only one I breastfed for any considerable length of time and he has had continous chest infections, asthma, tummy bugs - something that my other two (mostly bottle fed) children never suffered from so its not the almighty cure-all that its made out to be. People should be left to make the decision to breastfeed or not by themselves, without any outside influence. I think if the emphasis was taken away from the whole subject a little, the pressure wouldn't be so great, mothers would feel more relaxed and we could possibly see a rise in the number of people chosing to do so.

Anonymous  Posted: 07/02/2007 11:56

Anonymous, please don't be ashamed. you have have nothing to be ashamed of. Some women can and do breastfeed and for others it presents very great difficulty. A situation where the new mother is crying in pain and a child is hungry and distressed is not good for anyone. The important thing is your baby is well, feeding and thriving and you are well and happy.

Anonymous  Posted: 06/02/2007 22:09

I tried breastfeeding and did so for my baby's first 6 weeks. I delivered in The Rotunda. The midwives had strongly advocated the benefits of breastfeeding and it was always something that I wanted to do for my child. In hospital, the pediatric nurse was worried that My daughter wasn't taking enough so she cup fed her- not wanting to give a bottle for fear she might develop a liking for it. At home, I couldn't believe the pain that breastfeeding caused and I cried during every feed for the first two weeks. My nipples bled and I tried all suggested remedies to no avail. I gave in and supplemented her feeding with a bottle. It got to the point where when I put her to my breast, my daughter became distressed and did not want to feed. I knew of La Leche and Cuidu but unfortunately it was not convenient for me to attend. I breastfed in public during this time- I found it a lot easier than all of this bottle sterilizing, measuring, making and heating. Plus, I worry about over or under feeding now. I am ashamed that I could not feed my child naturally and have vowed that the next baby will go nowhere near a bottle. I have heard of lactation consultants- does anyone know if they exist in Ireland?

Jane  Posted: 01/01/2007 18:18

Lillith, Thats pushing it a bit don't you think. Up to the last generation or so, there was no other choice for feeding your baby other than breast milk. Femininity has nothing to do with breast feeding. BF is a biological response & the decline of b/feeding was more to do with bad nutrition, infant mortality and the advent of formula milk. Nowadays breast feeding is a choice & the fact that some women choose not to do so, is more to do with their lifestyles rather than any demonisation.

Ella  Posted: 29/12/2006 14:47

It might also have something to do with the fact that most Irish women have their labours induced and speeded up so often too...and it's a lot harder to BF if you've had a cesarean. If a woman is traumatized by her birth experience it definitely affects her chances of successfully breastfeeding. Most of our hospitals still won't allow doulas....another way shown to promote breastfeeding.

Lillith  Posted: 28/12/2006 19:05

Young girls are not taught to fully appreciate their femininity. Because of the old patriarchial system women were demonised for 5,000 years and only now as the feminine consciousness returns to Earth will we see the appreciation of women as strong warriors like before. This is not a battle of the sexes just a balancing of male and female within each of us.

Julie  Posted: 18/12/2006 13:13

Yes Catherine, and what you say is the reality of life here and not just media spin in regard to the low numbers of breast feeders. Also, all children are on solids from 6 months unless there is some medical problem that requires other feeding methods.

Catherine  Posted: 18/12/2006 11:45

Bear in mind Elina, most women are back in work after 6months and the vast majority of children are onto solids by one year anyway.

Julie  Posted: 18/12/2006 10:18

Elina you say "Heavy breasts tend to respond to gravity more quickly than smaller breasts, but that is true whether or not you nurse your children." If you are breast feeding you have heavy breasts! You can't avoid it & gravity does the rest. Unfortunately sagging breasts are a result of breast feeding. That is not a reason NOT to breast feed but nevertheless it is the reality. What you 'heard' about only the non nationals breast feeding and increasing the numbers here in Ireland is not the full truth. More and more Irish women are breast feeding. They just don't breast feed for years! The stats you are talking about only refer to those that are still breast feeding after 1 year. I don't know where your reference to Nestle comes into the picture though. Nestle don't even have a formula available for sale in Ireland.

Catherine  Posted: 18/12/2006 09:50

What you can do, is support and help mothers you know who WANT to breastfeed, as much as you can. Give advice when asked but don't attmept to bully or chivvy mothers into it because if anything that may well achieve the opposite effect. As for saggy breasts - of coutrse they are oing to be havier when you breastfeed, especially over a period of months and this an contribute to sagging.

Elina  Posted: 17/12/2006 23:28

Many women are worried that breastfeeding will cause sagging. Saggy breasts are not caused by breast feeding. Heavy breasts tend to respond to gravity more quickly than smaller breasts, but that is true whether or not you nurse your children. The text above is taken from a breastcancer website. It is an old myth that nestle probably started. Dont know if they did, but it would not supprise me. If you google " saggy breast from breast feeding" you can see it your self. And Catherine, that was exactly the point I wanted to get to. That Irish people can breast-feed if they WANT to! But it seems like most wont even try. 3 years ago I had a baby in Rotunda, nobody else in the room was breast-feeding! Now recently I had a baby in Drogheda, thinking that things most have changed, but no.. I dont know how many times the midwifes were trying to get me to give him a bottle.. One midwife even said to me that she has never seen a 26 year old woman breast-feed! She found it very strange. I dont know what the breast-feeding rates are in % in Ireland, read that they are the worst in the world at 2% and is only getting higher because of all the foreign women breastfeeding. Dont know how much of it is true, but I would like to do something about it.

Catherine  Posted: 15/12/2006 11:15

Bottles of tea seem a very unusual thing to give a young infant. Yes, I too have heard sagging breasts given as a reason and while it others may think it superficial or strange it is nevertheless a reason for some women and I agree, not something we can make a judgement about. Of course for anywoman who is breastfeeding and is worried about this, a good nursing bra will help and some women say that breast massage with oil of vitamin e helps also (altho' I don't know this for certain of course.)

Julie  Posted: 14/12/2006 21:20

Elina, From your posting you would think that no Mother in Ireland breast feeds. That is not the case. Plenty of women breast feed & the numbers are rising. Also, you would think that all the countries of the world where breast feeding is the norm are all 'perfect'. Well, let me tell you something, breast feeding is the norm in Hungry yet new born babies are given bottles of tea in between breast feeding. 1 Irish (new) Mother (in her early 20's) I know chose not to breast feed because she did not want sagging breasts. I thought that was the most weird excuse I had ever heard but at the same time, I know from experience that breast feeding does cause sagging breasts so who am I do make a judgement on her? Its the choice of the Mother at the end of the day and attempting to fill any Mother with guilt is not the way to go. As I said before, those that want to breast feed, will do, and those that don't want to, will not do it no matter what anyone says to them.

Catherine  Posted: 14/12/2006 15:52

Elina, there is no need to ry to sound so supercilious. I have already outlined the reasons in my previous post, for you to read. And obviously Irish women CAN feed their children - otherwise we as a race would have died out a long time ago but some women cannot Breastfeed (for whatever reason) their babies. Those who can and choose to shgould be given all the help and support they need.

Elina  Posted: 14/12/2006 13:47

Cathrine, its just so very strange how all the women in other countries can do it. Do you think that their bodies are different to the Irish? They go through the exact same thing, with soreness and the rest. I dont know, but maybe you can tell me why The Irish women are the only ones in the world that are not able to feed their own babys.

Catherine  Posted: 13/12/2006 08:49

Elina, there may be other reasons other than biological inability to breastfeed. Among these are soreness, breast-tenderness, problems with latching, exhaustion, PND, postpartum contractions, the need for a reliable contraceptive and for soem women who are self-employed the need to return to work sooner than the 5 months provided. Therfore I think it is very wrong of anyone to call a woman selfish for not breastfeeding. Afterall, giving your bosdy over for 9 months + to arry a child and go throiugh labour and all that involves to bring it into the world could hardly be called selfish. Tho', as I have saids before, any women who decides to, should recieve all the help and support they need.

Elina  Posted: 12/12/2006 16:11

It is very uncommon for a mother to be unable to breast-feed. In Norway 99% of mothers breast feed. So 1% of mothers cant breast feed for medical reasons.. I did not say that I look down on bottle-feeding mothers, I said that the general attitude of The Swedish people is that if your not breast feeding, you are not giving your baby the best possible start in life, therefore you are considered to be a selfish and unfit mother. And on that I will agree.

Catherine  Posted: 12/12/2006 09:32

Jane, think aobut it the African countries you mention are also very poor, war-toen, disease stricken, and famine prone. Logically, that co-relates to the death-rate rather than your erronious suggestion that somehow breastfeeding causes it. Julie, no amount of wishing in the world will make a mother succceed in breastfeeding if she does not have the basic vital support. Do you imagine that any of the soreness, tenderness, latching problems, time needed to feed, aftercare, postpartum contractions and tiredness which can accompany breastfeedign are attendant in bottle-feeding?? THEY are some of the reasons that breastfeeding mothers need more support. Bear in mind too that with bottlefeedig, anyone can take over the feeding when the mother is tired. This is not possible with brastfeeding - quite obviously. That said, it think it is very wrong Elina, to look down on any mother for bottle feeding as there are many reasons that a women will bottle feed. But as I said, those who breastfed do need all the support they can get. Julie, here maternity leave is 20 weeks - that's five months.

Julie  Posted: 04/12/2006 13:50

Elina, I agree with you to a point. However, in Sweden you have better leave etc. Here you really only have a matter of weeks before you go back to work. That makes a huge difference to a lot of Mothers.

Elina  Posted: 04/12/2006 12:21

I am from Sweden where everyone is breast-feeding. The midwifes there would not accept you to bottle feed without trying to breast-feed first. You would be looked down at as a selfish unfit mother if you did not breast-feed. That is the way it should be down here aswell,it should be education on breastfeeding for schoolchildren to improve the nations health by ensuring that breastfeeding is the norm for infants and young children in Ireland.

Julie  Posted: 03/12/2006 19:46

I truly don't understand what more you can expect outside forces to do, especially the Government. This country is stricter than most in enforcing compliance with WHO breast feeding guidelines. I take your point Catherine, but the tiredness and exhaustion of being a new Mother is there regardless of what you choose to feed your baby. Breast feeding can be difficult but if you wish to succeed you will, that is the point. You can't hold every Mothers hand all the time and those that are breast feeding cannot expect any more support than those that bottle feed. John, I don't think it is relevant to Mothers now as to what went on in the past. The young Mothers of today are exempt from those sorts of shackles. Perhaps a lot of it is driven by some youngsters wanting to get back to their own lives again after pregnancy. After all, when you are breast feeding you need to continue in the same vein as if you were pregnant ie. no alcohol, ciggies, bad diet etc etc.

Jane  Posted: 03/12/2006 01:14

Under the EU directive if a hospital wants to be Baby Friendly then they are obliged to stock all infant formula on their units as to stock only some and not others, is considered favouring 1 brand over another. In the past, hospitals did deals with formula companies and only stocked the ones they got the best price for (cheapest prices) but that has all stopped now. Look around your maternity units and tell me that all 4 formulas are stocked as per the guidelines, no they are not. THat means that mat units DO favour certain formula over others which is totallly unacceptable as they only stock the ones they the purchasers in each dept get the right back handers for, and not the ones that have been proven to be the best for the babies. On the other hand, look at all the breast feeding mothers in africa who have no choice but to breast feed. They are also the ones with the highest infant fatalities. As I said earlier, breast feeding does not ensure your babies health and immunity as if you look at the statistics they have higher fatalities, which proves my case that breast feeding is not necessarily safe for all babies as it is dependent on the health and diet of the Mothers. In this country, bottle feeding adverts are against the law so you end up with Mothers bottle feeding a particular formula through word of mouth as opposed to choosing the formula that is best suited to their babies needs. If foreign Mums choose breast feeding over bottle feeding then you can be assured that it is not exactly rocket science. When there is no other option Mums have no choice but to breast feed and they manage this without any basic support systems Another reason that Mums go down this road to bottle feeding is from the simple economics of having to go back to work. There are babies out there who for lots of reasons will never be able to latch on for a variety of reasons. Some cannot take in enough amounts to provide for their nutritional needs, also babies with cleft lips also have difficulty breast feeding. I have seen groups like La Leche giving Mums a hard time because they gave up on the breast feeding but I have also seen babies admitted to hospitals because they are virtually suffering from malnutrition caused by La Leche pushing the Mums to breast feed whilst the baby is starving. When the child begins to loose weight and fails to thrive, the 'do-gooders' bow out and it is the Medical Profs who then have to pick up the pieces.

Elina  Posted: 02/12/2006 15:05

I was recently breastfeeding on a bus when a woman came up to me and said - I dont think you should be doing that!! She then screamed to everyone in the bus - Look at her!! She is brest-feeding, she shouldnt be allowed doing that!! Then she went up to the driver and told him - Make her stop doing that!! Report her!! The driver did not say anything and neither did anyone in the bus. She then came back to me and said- The bus driver is going to report you!! I told her that the only reason we have breast is to feed our children! She was furious.. This has deeply upset me, more people need to breastfeed in public, I am going to breast-feed anywhere and at anytime that I want! Fair play to everyone out there who is breast-feeding!!

Wicklow John  Posted: 30/11/2006 16:25

Certainly embarrassment has a lot to do with it. This is chiefly a throwback to when the hospitals were run by conservative boards who did not encourage breast feeding. Perhaps the younger generation will have a more balanced and progressive outlook. We will also be influenced by immigrants from Eastern Europe where breast feeding is more common (sometimes for financial reasons - the price of infant foods for example)

Catherine  Posted: 30/11/2006 09:54

You don't need to learn how to breast feed from a sterility point of view but you do need to learn the proper technique, latch, how to hold and guide your babys head, preventing blocked ducts / mastitis and proper aftercare. The mother also needs support, help and encouragement in those first few vital weeks when she can be anything from exhausted to in pain. In not saying that any woman should be forced to breastfeed, of course not but those who want to, should get all the help and support they need.

Julie  Posted: 29/11/2006 22:58

What exactly is your point? To clarify mine, you don't need to learn how to breast feed from a sterility point of view. You do, however, need to be taught how to make up a safe bottle in hygiene circumstances. How you decide to feed your baby is purely your own choice. Of course, partners/husbands have a say but it is ultimately the Mothers' choice.

Catherine  Posted: 29/11/2006 11:04

Julie I think you are contradicting yourself, first you say - At the moment, the only way a Mum can find out about any milk (either breast or formula) is by listening to her friends/family etc rather than from a health professional. Then you say - Why does anyone think they should need support from anyone to do this? I think you have answered your own qustion. Public health nurses, midwives, lactation consultants, family and partners play a very important role in this.

Julie  Posted: 29/11/2006 01:19

Breast feeding is the best way to feed your baby PROVIDING you are also in good health, not on medication and eating adequately. It is not an elixir for life as stated previously. Unfortunately there are women who do not breast feed discreetly and they seem to take some sort of perverted pride in displaying their boobs to all! In regard to support for breast feeding Mums. What more support do you want? You either do it or you don't. There is more support for breast feeding than there is for bottle feeding. There are new Mums coming out of hospital who do not even know how to make up a bottle. Even if they are breast feeding they should be taught how to make up a bottle as a safety precaution because breast feeders sometimes need to give their own expressed milk via a bottle. The Government cannot do any more in this area. Formula cannot be advertised and this country works on the premise of giving no information to Mums about formula which to my mind is not a safe practice. Informed choice is far more acceptable than leaving Mums in the dark. At the moment, the only way a Mum can find out about any milk (either breast or formula) is by listening to her friends/family etc rather than from a health professional. If you are pregnant surely you give some thought to how you are going to feed your new infant. Why do we always expect other people to take responsibility for what is solely our own responsibility? It is up to each Mum to decide how they want to feed their baby and if they choose to breast feed, then that is their choice. Why does anyone think they should need support from anyone to do this?

Catherine  Posted: 28/11/2006 09:46

Anonymous, could you kindly inform me what is wrong with breastfeeding in Public. One of the functions of a breast is for feeding your baby. A mother who is used to breastfeeding can do so quite discretly in public without anyone (except those who make it their business) even noticing. If a mother gives her child the best start in life, it's not just "OK", it's great. Breastfeeding, for those who can and want to, is the absolute best start for a baby, whether it is done on private (which is none of anyones business but hers and her baby's) or in Public. But what do you suggest she do in Public, allow her baby to cry and scream with the hunger for an hour or so until she gets home? I should think that would disturb any member of the public even more. Becuase I don't know aobut you but I see precious few public nursing mother rooms. Afterall, it's neither a private thing nor a public thing, it's simply feeding a baby the way nature intended. It is attitudes such as yours which contribute to low breast feeding rates in this country. Southern europeans don't have and have never had that kind of prudish attitude.

Anonymous  Posted: 28/11/2006 00:03

BREAST FEEDING IN PRIVATE IS OK, BUT BREAST FEEDING IN PUBLIC IS NOT OK, THERE IS TOTAL DISREGARD FOR THE PUBLIC, PERSONAL THINGS SHOULD NOT BE ENFORCED ON THE GENREAL PUBLIC, ITS A PRIVATE THING AND SHOULD BE KEPT THAT WAY.

Nolt  Posted: 24/11/2006 15:07

I agree with many of the suggestions for our low breastffeding rate. I do think that there is very little support especially in rural areas, as a young woman from Mayo now living in Cork I can see huge voids in the support available, I know from having my first child and breastfeeding the midwife at the hospital was extremely surprised that as a single 23 year old that I was willing to venture down that road as she said herself t the time "sure its mainly the foreign Nationals that breatfeed Irish women aren't so keen".

vonnie  Posted: 16/11/2006 12:54

I feel in Ireland it has always been a socio economic issue. When i decided to breast feed my first child my mother in law was disgusted as by her words we were well off and could afford formula. I was then further shocked by a nun in a resturant who complained me to the manager that I was exposing myself because i was feeding my baby.He then rather embarressingly asked me to stop or else leave as i was upseting the customers. In my expereience after breast feeding all my 3 children women were more embarressed than men. one woman I spoke to felt that if she breast fed her baby it would change her sexual relationship with her partner!

Anonymous  Posted: 20/10/2006 02:49

I am just baffled at the attitudes to breastfeeding in Ireland. I have lived abroad for several years and other breastfeeding women are baffled when I tell them about Ireland's low breastfeeding rates. They all just took it for granted that they would breastfeed their kids. I breastfed my three children, my first child was a nightmare, I had no support from the hospital, doctor or health nurse, their attitude was if you are having trouble put her on the bottle. My relatives were no better directing me to a different room when it looked like I was going to start feeding (a uncle even said it was disgusting) in fact I had the most support from my grandmother who had breastfed five of her eight children. The young "educated" women I worked with were no better, most thought it again was disgusting, or "why should their husband not have to get up in the night!" I was considered some kind of freak for not opting for the convenience of the bottle. In my opinion convenience is being able to feed your child anywhere anytime without having to worry about sterilising or warming up bottles. And for all those prudes out there who are terrified of seeing a bit of boob....what about all the half naked teenagers and young woman walking about ....I don't hear any complaints about them! The bottom line is BREASTFEEDING IS BEST FOR YOUR CHILD AND FOR YOU and the government should be doing more to promote this.

happymum  Posted: 19/10/2006 18:49

I just want to say that I introduced bottles on day 3, just 1 or 2 a day, and breastfed the rest of the time. That way, I was able to have "the best of both worlds" and my partner was able to feed the baby too. In this way, I was able to feed the baby until 8 months, gradually increasing the number of bottles, until it came to a natural end. The best advice I can give is to do both. Breast feeding does not all hinge on one feed. The more rested and relaxed you are the more successful feeding will be. Also, this allows you the freedom to use bottles when you are out and about. Let's face it, the attitude towards breast feeding in Ireland is appalling and the last thing a tired mother on a rare trip out wants is hassle from people who think they have the right to tell you how to raise your child.

pidna  Posted: 16/10/2006 22:38

I firmly believe the basic reason that more women do not breastfeed their babies is that they do not have enough support from their partners/husbands.

Maria C.  Posted: 16/10/2006 12:43

Andra, you are a man, what in fairness, would you know about it on a practical level. You have no idea what breastfeeding is really like for a woman. If anything breastfeeding is far more convenient for some women once you can get through those vital first few weeks which can be anything from exhausting to downright painful. Yes, Why do it naturally when it can just be done for you?? Would you be willing to forced to go through hours of excruciating agony (and yes, drug free "natural" birth IS like that for many women) when you don't want or need to? If a woman wants to have a natural birth - good for her and every assistance should be given to her but for those who can't or don't want to that's their choice. "Women should be encouraged and taught from a young age to accept nature". And should men be encouraged and taught the same, do you think? Should we all be encouraged and taught from a young age to accept nature - when it comes to illnesses, ancer, dental decay, eyesight and hearing loss? Or is it just childbirth and breastfeeding you feel this way about? What on earth do you think modern medecine is for? Unless a women and her partner have been exposed to 0 media, live in the wild and never attend a Dr. and are prepared to give birth in a field or cave and possibly die in the attempt and outside of tribal society there are 0 of these, then "natural birth" as a phenomena does not exist.

New Delighted Dad  Posted: 15/10/2006 23:14

I have to add that we just gave birth to our beautiful daughter in Ballinasloe Hospital and the nurses there fully promoted breast feeding and gave real hands on support to all mums. I feel the issue lies when the mum leaves the hospital environment that society is not fully supportive of breast feeding. In addition the fact that mums need to think of returning to work is another factor in either not taking up or ceasing breast feeding. Women today face a choice of career or baby and in most cases the career takes priority and breast feeding is seen as too time consuming.

Jo  Posted: 14/10/2006 21:53

I am currently breastfeeding my 4mth old. I think it is great to be able to head off with him without having to worry about preparing and carrying formula safely. But it would be nice if restaurants and shops could have breastfeeding friendly notices that would indicate that you would be welcome. I know that under equality legislation that restaurant staff cannot discriminate but it would be nice to know that staff had been directed by mgmt to be open to this and maybe more aware of help needed like offering to get water etc when you start feeding. Also if shops had feeding rooms like M&S in Liffey Valley. For me that has been the hardest part; feeling that I should feed my son in the car before I go in anywhere. A note on assistance in hospitals; I had my last two kids in Mullingar and the midwives there were great. They didn't beat you over the head to bf but were really supportive and had loads of practical tips to get you started.

Andra  Posted: 14/10/2006 14:23

I believe that that the majority of women who do not breastfeed, do it because they are lazy and dont want the inconvenience (except those with medical conditions). Its much easier to make 'instant ' milk using formula. Its the same with the whole 'too posh to push' phenomena. Why do it naturally when it can just be done for you is the attitude. Its the society we live in, if its not conveniant why bother. Women should be encouraged and taught from a young age to accept nature and not try chnage it ie breastfeeding and natural birth.

Dr Jon  Posted: 13/10/2006 23:32

"Ron Usmar Posted: 12/10/2006 15:41" includes most of the reasons. To be fair, the advantages of breast feeding may be marginal when measured in terms of immunity and allergy and probably nothing at all in terms of nutrition but it is still better. Then there is the entire emotional and bonding situation, though of course breast feeding excludes fathers and I enjoyed feeind our babies. It is possible that part of the problem with obese children is because of bottle feeding, so breast feeding may seem more important in the future.

rmcmanus  Posted: 13/10/2006 20:10

It's fascinating to see the range of views on this topic, although depressing to see some of the ignorance that comes through as well. I'm happy to still be feeding my 6 month old son, have done so regularly in public (discreetly) with NO negative comments whatsoever, and hope that I've managed to play a part in convincing some of those around me that breastfeeding is perfectly natural and normal. OK, for some people it doesn't work, but what I find very sad is that so many women who give birth never even TRY. They don't even know what they're missing. And YES, while I had problems starting out and it certainly wasn't easy, in the longer term it has proven to be a happy choice in so many ways - the health benefits for myself and baby, the convenience, the savings (over expensive formula which, although it does its best, simply can't replicate breast milk, despite what some respondents seem to think...), oh and its environmentally friendly too! While there may be some extreme views on both sides, the excellent breast feeding groups run by Cuidiu (Irish Childbirth Trust) and public health nurses in many areas are well worth a visit - I think if more pregnant women saw breastfeeding in action and met 'real live' women just like them who were successfully feeding, it would help more than all the propaganda from health professionals!

mary (KVX51411)  Posted: 13/10/2006 11:53

Breastfeeding is unfortunately too time consuming for today's lifestyles. This includes the technique of the mother expressing the milk for others to do the feeding. Most women simply can't afford the time.

Ron Usmar  Posted: 13/10/2006 10:26

To Pinky My father in law, the first time he saw my wife feed #1, fled the room - not because he was disgusted etc, but because he was a man of his time and he felt that it was private for his daughter and he shouldn't be there. Once he saw how the baby was thriving, he got over his own inhibitions. As he said himself, it was a sea change for him, in his 60s, and not easy, but the health and welfare of his child and his grandchild were more important to him than his embarrassment. To Chris - a lot of it certainly is about money. Losing all the bottles and expensive sterilising gear, the cost of formula and the fact that none of ours ever went to the GP for ear, gastro or respiratory while being breastfed. This saved us an absolute fortune when we were really broke over mortgage, loans, bills etc. In addition, even though asthma, hay fever, eczema allergies etc are on both sides of the family, none of the four (aged 4-14) have or have ever had any of these.

Grammarian  Posted: 13/10/2006 10:15

All mothers of newborn infants should get a fully paid maternity leave of six months minimum from the government. At the maternity ward they should be able to keep their babies at their side at all times, and there mother and baby shoiuld also have all they practical assistance needed to get into the art of suckling.

Anonymous  Posted: 13/10/2006 09:47

Oh for goodness sake Liam would you ever wake up and cop yourself on. Are you implying that every women who breastfeeds - which is the most natural thing in the world by the way and an excellent start for a baby - should be shut away for six months or a year or longer depending on how long she breastfeeds for?? Tell me, do you ever eat in public? - in a restaurant, or have your lunchtime sandwich in a park in Summer? If so, what on earth is wrong with a women feeding her child in the most natural nutritous way in public? It's repressed attitudes like yours that have possibly contributed to low breastfeeding rates in the past.

Anonymous  Posted: 13/10/2006 00:30

I just wanted to reply to the comment of an earlier poster that breast milk developed the whole baby as opposed to formula creating big bones! That is completely untrue. Formula does exactly the same thing as breast milk. Breast feeding is the best but not all Mothers can breast feed for lots of reasons. The babies nutritional needs come before the needs of the Mother so as long as the baby is feeding from breast or bottle, adequately, then that is the bottom line. Also, from my own experience please don't rely too heavily on La Leche League. They are all lay people and can give good advice but I have seen a baby being breast fed, the Mother relied totally on advice given to her by La Leche & eventually the baby was taken to hospital because it was failing to thrive. When admitted they found out that the baby had an abnormality in the mouth so was actually being starved to death. This would have been a tragedy if the Mother had not brought the child to her local Public Health Nurse for a check up. The La Leche league person kept telling the Mother to persist with the breast feeding no matter what and this sort of advice is not always correct. Putting pressure on Mothers to breast feed, if that is not what they want to do, is only going to make matters worse. As for expressing milk. Why can't a Mother express milk before they leave their child in a creche where the creche staff can then use that milk for the baby?

liam (lcollins)  Posted: 12/10/2006 22:45

if women want to breast feed , then they should do so in private, its a personal thing between them and their baby , not a thing that should be done in public ,

Anonymous  Posted: 12/10/2006 21:02

As a single mother 31 years ago breastfeeding was out of the question, it was bad enough to have got pregnant outside marriage, never mind wanting to keep the baby and then shock horror to breastfeed. I did experience the joy of breastfeeding my youngest for 6 months, despite the lack of support from family, GP, community health nurse and hospital. These days I think there is so much pressure on young people that not only are they missing out on breastfeeding but parenthood because of the cost of living. With both parents having to work to make ends meet, babies are not breastfed as they should and young children and parents are deprived of the comforts of each other because of financial pressure. I think it's time to get back to basics. Also, if I may ad it seems this younger generation of women have learnt that it's more important to have a career and all the trimmings, including a perfect body than motherhood and having children. I am writing as a mother of two adult daughters. There is nothing wrong with having a career but many late 20/early 30's will discover that they have left it too late to have children because they are so caught up in their careers.

Pinky  Posted: 12/10/2006 20:15

I am hoping to have children, been trying for about a year, and I really hope I can breastfeed. It just seems so logical., the most natural thing in the world. I know my very repressed ultra-Catholic parents would be disgusted with me not hiding away to do it. I cannot even imagine feeding a baby in front of them. It's a wonder I'm even here at all the way my father reacts to any mention of sex, reproduction or babies. I am so glad I did not inherit the repressed-Catholic genes!! :))

60s girl  Posted: 12/10/2006 19:18

My eldest daughter is 35. When I was pregnant with her, I attanded the pre-natal classes, but there was no practical support for mothers who wanted to breastfeeed , and things have obviously not improved since then.

Kitty  Posted: 12/10/2006 17:04

Ron, congrats to your wife on breastfeeding all four children. A friend of mine also had her baby in the Rotunda and to be fair to them, they didn't want her to have the baby rooming in all the time simply so she could relax and recover and an important element of this is getting some sleep after the birth to be as refreshed as possible for when you'll need your energy when having the baby at home with you. A lot of times tho' hospital staff just don't seem to have the time to provide the neccessary help and support. Chris, for many couples, pursuing two careers is not a choice but simply a neccessity. Maternity leave is 6 months which is a good start but not ideal. I think you are being disingenuous in your remark about true motivation. It takes true morivation in actually concieving and having the child in many cases despite difficulties and illness. It must be remembered that not all women can breastfeed.

Chris  Posted: 12/10/2006 16:52

It's money! It's to do with the rush to get back to work because of financial pressures caused by both partners having gone out to work. Couples should be strong enough to decide whether they really, honestly, genuinely want to become parents or whether they wish to pursue two careers. It isn't easy to do both and, certainly, children do benefit from having both parents at home. Breast feeding is the first actual sign of the mother's true motivation.

Chana  Posted: 12/10/2006 16:19

For many women the milk when it's coming in can be very painful and a poor latch can cause problems. For others they don't want to feel they have to be tied to their babies 24 X 7 for all of their 6 months maternity leave and as a previous poster said, after 9 months they just want their bodies back. Others may be conerned about it limiting their contraceptive choice and of course some women may be ill, on medication or unable to breastfeed after they give birth but for so many women lack of support both from experts and their family / community is a big mitigating factor. Denise, the guy in the bank who made that comment as just simply ignorant and offensive. he is the disgusting one.

Ron Usmar  Posted: 12/10/2006 15:41

Part of it is the long shadow of McQuaid - BF was somehow dirty and a bit sexual, plus all those nun-run hospitals where it "wasn't modren" in the 1960s, which means a whole generation didn't do it and don't know how. Your Ma is usually the best support for BF, but if she doesn't know how, most women won't do it. My wife fed all four, and at least four other women took it up on their second or third child because they saw how easy it is and they could ask her for advice. The Rotunda was appalling - didn't want to let her keep the baby in her bed, constantly offered bottles so she could "get some sleep", and of course none of the ward staff had breastfed. And this was with a policy to promote it. In summary, BF is best passed on from mother to mother, but a whole generation missed out and it will take a long time to get that knowledge back again.

Monnie  Posted: 12/10/2006 14:54

I think there is a general lack of support for mothers in the community. We've hada generation of mothers who didn't bresstfeed prior to this generation so there is little practical advise available for mothers from family members, friends, neighbours. I think the raising of awareness and increasing uptake of breastfeeding in new mothers is a credit to the work of midwives and children's nurses throughout the country. Once they start they need support to continue, it isn't the easy option afterall. Making a bottle is too often seen as the quick and simple way out by those who don't know the reality.

Al  Posted: 12/10/2006 14:47

I breastfed my son for a year. I had no problems breast-feeding. I fed him on trains, planes, buses, on park-benches, in banks, in restaurants, everywhere. It was so handy. I could feed him whenever he was hungry and I didn't need to carry any equipment around! Nobody made a negative comment. Many probably didn't even notice him snuggling up against me, sucking away. I think Denise probably saw a very old-fashioned, repressed couple in that bank. I suppose I was lucky to be raised by a mother who taught me to be proud of my body and be in tune with the miracle of nature, which gave me confidence as a mother myself.

Blath  Posted: 12/10/2006 14:30

Apparently breastfeeding rates are increasing in Ireland, but this may be among immigrant mothers who consider it the norm. I don't have any children but I would imagine that our relatively short maternity leave period and the pressures of returning to work would discourage most Irish mothers from taking up breastfeeding. None of my colleagues who are mothers have breastfed their children.

Anonymous  Posted: 12/10/2006 14:27

Reason is different lifestyle now. Working mothers, house prices,childrens needs/.....sports , music, swimming lessons .would help if all subjects shuould be taught at school.during school hrs.... with a longer school, day.

Anonymous  Posted: 12/10/2006 14:14

A combination of factors. I breastfed for 5 months and would have given up after a few days but for the help of a private lactation consultant. I never felt comfortable breastfeeding in public and I felt I had to wean at 5 months due to return to work and the long hours that I work. Even with the extensions to maternity leave in last year's budget it is just not enough to encourage breastfeeding beyond a few months. In addition the current legislation allowing mothers breastfeeding breaks at work until the baby is 6 months old is just not enough. My company does not have suitable facilities for a mother to express and with my baby in a creche half an hour drive away the "hour" breastfeeding break is next to useless.

Shinny  Posted: 12/10/2006 14:00

Shame & lack of knowledge. It's a simple as that. If a mother begins breastfeeding her child in public, she gets nothing but people staring at her & making inappropriate remarks. The likes of "That's disgusting" or "I don't mind women breastfeeding, but don't do it in my face". Until this attitude changes, women will be reluctant to do it.

cmus  Posted: 12/10/2006 13:45

Having watched my wife breast feed on our two kids all I can say is it's very hard on the woman physically and emotionally. At least this was the case for my wife. My opinion is that most women would like to and even do begin to breastfeed but give up as it's so tough which I understand fully.

minnie  Posted: 12/10/2006 13:29

I"m sure there are many and varied reasons that Ireland has such a low breastfeeding rate but high on the list has to be that everyone is in such a hurry these days and have plenty of money to buy expensive baby food. Having said that as a 71 year old mother of seven, who breastfed a few of them, I can see absolutely no difference in any of them healthwise or attitude wise to me so it looks as if it was all the same in this case

denise  Posted: 12/10/2006 13:17

I was in a bank queue last year. A lady in front of me had her baby with her who started to cry. She very discretly breast fed the child. A man and his wife walked by her and noticed that she was feeding. He said loudly... "what you are doing is a disgusting thing to be doing in a bank in front of all these good people!". They walked off tutting. I told her not to mind them. The lady started crying and left the bank. A national campaign should be launched to show all people of all ages that breast feeding is completly natural.

magser  Posted: 12/10/2006 13:11

I think that so many women just can't be bothered to breast-feed, they don't see it as something that is wonderful both for them and the baby, rather that it is a practice that should be looked down on. I breast-fed my first son and am now on son no. 2, i could not imagine bottle feeding them, but i did have great support from the Lordes where they were born, and from my local breast-feeding clinic. You do need to be determined, but the benifits are so worth it, both for the mother and the baby.

Al  Posted: 12/10/2006 12:20

Usually, if your own mother breastfed, then you will follow her example. A lot of people seem to have a preconception that it's more difficult to breastfeed than to bottlefeed. I disagree, as with bottle-feeding there are hours of washing, sterilising, mixing feeds, warming bottles etc every day and night. Breast milk is much more easily accessible and comes in sterile packaging. Less working class mothers than middle-class mothers seem to breastfeed in Ireland, for some reason. There may be a breastfeeding clinic in every area, but in some areas, there are hardly any breast-feeding mothers. For a lot of families, it is just not done, and people may not be aware of the benefits of breast-feeding both for the baby and mother. Some mothers want their bodies back for themselves and their man after pregnancy, and so they can also go out for a few drinks. They may not feel that they want to be the only person who can feed the baby. Formula is made from cow's milk and is good for growing big bones, whereas breast-milk is good for developing the full human being including the brain and immune system. That is my opinion

zapit  Posted: 12/10/2006 12:10

In my experience I had fantastic support in Holles St but my problems started when I was at home. I tried the public health nurse and my local GP and found that the advice I was getting was from women in the medical field who had never breast fed themselves. Then I tried La Leche League which I felt would have been delighted if I had my son feeding from me 24x7 - I found them extreme. My difficulties were related to weaning and it was only when I travelled abroad was I given a tablet to stop the milk coming in. I hadn't fed my son in a week and the milk was still coming in. Needless to say the pain was unbearable.

Anonymous  Posted: 12/10/2006 12:03

Thankfully B/F rates are on the up, but too many mothers give up at the first sign of difficulty, it can be hard at the start but it is so rewarding for both mother & child. Also many mothers give up after a very short time. World Health Organisation recommends breast feeding for first 2 years - yet many irish mothers find this a horrifying thought! As a nation,we need to change our mindset & attitude to breastfeeding.

FingalMum  Posted: 12/10/2006 11:45

When I ran into difficulties my doctor said: "Ah don't be a martyr, just stop." That was very discouraging! However I found a phone number for the wonderful La Leche League, and a breast-feeding counsellor helped me *on the phone*! She understood exactly what the problem was and said by making sure my son latched on properly it could be gone within a day. I didn't believe it as I was in very much pain, but she was right, well, it took maybe 2 days, but I was much, much better within one! GPs should really be better about giving women info where to turn for help! "Ring La Leche League" would have been the right thing to say to me! I went on to breastfeed happily for a good long while and am very glad I didn't give up.

MC  Posted: 12/10/2006 11:39

Working mothers are too busy. Also the organistation that the mother works in may not have proper facilities for brestfeeding or no creche at work.

jill (UKI53382)  Posted: 12/10/2006 10:10

breast feeding is great but it is very hard and you do need a strong determinanation. there is alot of help available such as breast feeing clinics which are run by the public health nurses.

hermon (GVQ47886)  Posted: 10/10/2006 18:38

I think lack of support and combined with fear and embarassment is the main cause of low breastfeeding

Anonymous  Posted: 09/10/2006 11:51

I think it is a combination of lack of suppport and also a fear of embarrassment.