Women could make sperm

[Posted: Tue 11/07/2006 - www.irishhealth.com]

A new scientific breakthrough may lead to women in future being able to produce sperm.

Scientists in England have turned stem cells from am embryo into sperm which are capable of producing offspring.

The breakthrough is likely to lead to new advances in treating male infertility and even the possibility that women could manufacture sperm.

The researchers at Newcastle University say that the advance, when developed further, could help men with certain types of infertility to become fertile and even one day could enable a lesbian couple to have children that genetically would be their own.

The experiment used embryo cells to produce seven baby mice, six of whom lived into adulthood, although the survivors suffered adverse events of the kind seen in cloning experiments.

The researchers isolated embryonic stem cells from an embryo only a few days old consisting of a cluster of cells. The cells were grown in a laboratory and screened to isolate the spermatogonial stem calls which were grown and then injected into female mouse eggs and grown in early stage embryos.

The research team says its project will aid the understanding of the biological process through which sperm is produced, which should help in the future treatment of infertility.

It is hoped that this new knowledge could be translated into treatments for men whose sperm is dysfunctional, although could be some years into the future.

The research was published in the journal Developmental Cell.

Jim(GIY49174)  Posted: 11/07/2006 14:36

If lesbian women were to use this type of procedure, would the children all be female?

fifi  Posted: 11/07/2006 15:11

Yes all this is good news but tell me if two women can create another life.. why have they not found a cure for cancer yet? Is there someone creaming off out there on the pain & loss of others? Look at technology in general.. we can do so much & yet when it comes to the lucrative business of health.. we can still do so little.

Joe(DGE49180)  Posted: 11/07/2006 16:04

Jim, If both females were XX in their gender-producing chromosome, then the offspring would necessarily be XX. If, however, one is an XXY, which does on occasion occur, there is a distinct possibility of a male offspring.

ANM1979  Posted: 11/07/2006 17:44

After generations of lesbians they might have only female chromosomes os there might not happen quite often to have a male offspring or in worst cases never. I would like that all genetical studies and experiments should focus on treating HIV and cancer. The only cure for HIV is if we could change the HIV's DNA so it won't attack any longer the cells but try do desintegrate other HIV viruses

Dr. Doogie  Posted: 11/07/2006 19:05

Joe you are right, if all of the alleles are coming solely from one person, then the sex chromosone will take on the traits of the carrier. In such a case of the carrier having Klinefelter syndrome (XXY), well then they are already male however consiquently, may be infertile, therefore making this scientific discovery benificial to them.

Matt(XMQ49194)  Posted: 11/07/2006 19:43

Wouldn't the XXY be male?

Jon(TSJ49202)  Posted: 11/07/2006 22:01

Joe, XXY refers to Klinefelter's syndrome, an aneuploidy caused by the failed separation of XX in the mother paired with a Y in the father or the failed separation of XY in the father paired with an X in the mother during meiosis. Such offspring are genetically male, though they may have some female sex characteristics. They have a high rate of infertility, but some have children--through sex with women, of course ; ) I think you're right about the lesbian offspring being all female--can't see how you'd get around that unless a Y-chromosome from a donor male could replace one of the female X-chromosomes--while retaining her autosomes. Seems quite futuristic--but then so did this article until I just read it!

ned  Posted: 11/07/2006 22:27

Nature wont tolerate such meddling with the fundementals of human creativity[or should that be creationism ?].Just because something is possible doesnt justify doing it,no matter how well meaning the intentions.Watch out for double-headed monsters with eyes where the nipples should be !

Anonymous   Posted: 12/07/2006 01:29

It looks as though the men are on their way out!!

kory(NLG49207)  Posted: 12/07/2006 01:37

Do we really need more humans?

Bio student  Posted: 12/07/2006 02:06

The process this article described is conducted without the use of the female cells, so the genes are not the females. Only males produce sperm cells so it follows that the process is using an XY cell to produce its gametes. All offspring of this particular method would be a combination of male and female if it is not a direct cloning method. But to me it sounds more like cloning that producing sperm.

Mo Horspwr  Posted: 12/07/2006 02:25

It would be interesting to know if the offspring of these courageous lesbian sperm producers would all be lesbians themselves then. Even more importantly, would they be hot?

Charlie  Posted: 12/07/2006 09:17

Fifi, two women creating another life has no link to the cure of cancer. A cure for cancer would be lucrative, and I am sure a lot of people are working on it. We cannot simply wish a cure into existence. And we cannot jump start a cure for cancer by being cynical towards another area of science that we may not approve of.

Anonymous   Posted: 12/07/2006 11:55

Words like \"could\" have no place in science! Propoganda at its best! I\'m always amazed at the advances claimed by medical reserch yet the cant even cure a common cold! Nonsense. Messing with nature in a controlled envoirnment is not scientific research!

Paul(VTB49239)  Posted: 12/07/2006 14:04

Could you IMAGINE a world of only women? Cat fights. Backstabbing gossip. Society would disentegrate, women hate each other, this would be fun to watch.

Andy  Posted: 12/07/2006 14:37

Charlie, a cure for cancer wouldn't be half as lucrative as the current market for chemotherapy drugs... A cure for cancer would also kill the market for chemotherapy drugs... See where this is going?!? ;-) It's not in a drug companies best interest to develop a cure for cancer... :-(

fifi  Posted: 12/07/2006 16:17

Yes Paul - a world full of women would also mean less wars, less rapes, less murders and less robberies & less paedophilia. Sad but true.

fortwynt  Posted: 12/07/2006 17:26

No, what is Sad but True is, in an all female world, by definition the only people committing those rapes, murders,wars etc...would BE women, because thats all that could be....I don't really understand where this crazy idea comes from that women running things would mean world-peace, or any more world-peace than men running things....its just not true and clearly shows the worst form of sexism in a person, really just females, who are the usual proponents of this idea. Very insulting, and completely ridiculous on top of that.

at2ecw  Posted: 13/07/2006 00:51

well if you see the news: women teachers are being caught left and right having sex with there under-aged students. women do rob and steal,junkies and the like. they even kill, take drowning there own kids or husbands being knocked off. if they are gay then the girlfriend is history. pedophilia is as much in the female population as men. you cannot blame men for more of anything. women are catching up really fast. it's sad isn't it?

john(KFH49351)  Posted: 13/07/2006 06:09

This research is completely poposterous! Why do scientists insist on continuing research that will completely erase men from the human equation? I'm all for helping people have children who can't, but there are quite a few ways already, besides that there are a great many children already born unto this wretched planet that need to be adopted. Why waist money on this crap when there are plenty of other meaningless causes to do so with that don't involve extincting my sex!!! so... whatever I've lost interest in this.

Rob  Posted: 13/07/2006 08:15

Was the world more peaceful when Maggie Thatcher ran things in England?

Modest Alchemist  Posted: 13/07/2006 12:29

Are you forgetting that even if lesbians can have kids, there are tons of women out there who are straight, and therefore there is still a need for men. Personally, I could never go lesbian (not that there's anything wrong with that) because I really love men. One day I hope to have kids with a man.

fifi  Posted: 13/07/2006 13:19

Now men.. settle down. I wasnt slating the general male population I was merely responding to Robs first comment on how bitchy the world would be if its only inhabitants were women only. Very very few women rape, rob, are into molesting children or murder. To the new poster there... what you speak of are very very rare exceptions, not the overall fact. No one wants to wipe out men, I was merely giving a retort to Robs comment.

Modest Alchemist  Posted: 13/07/2006 18:33

well those were the connotations. and there are also very few men who like to rape children and start wars... i think that men and women are divided about the same when it comes to being imperfect. but besides all that... a world full of women would be very confusing... women are crazy. men are to the point.

Holy Soldier  Posted: 13/07/2006 19:07

1 Corinthians 6:9: (Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders)

Gwyn  Posted: 13/07/2006 19:56

We're overpopulated as it is. Personally, I wish more people would just adopt! Why are humans so attached to their own genetics anyway? Rather selfish, if you ask me.

Mary  Posted: 14/07/2006 10:36

Paul, I don't think a world with only women would be realistic. I quite like the company of men and don't belive for a moment that they are "on their way out" and the fact reamins that the majority of women want to form long term relationships with and reproduce with males. If this helps with infertlity, great. What worris me tho', and I may be well of track with this but if any remembers Dolly the sheep, her clone had some very specific mendical problems related to the cloning. i wonder would this technique also produce certain medical problems in the offspring related to the scientific technique. To the poster who comaplained that there was no cure for the common cold, take an aspirin, a hot sweet drink, plenty of fluid and have a nap. You'll feel much better in a week.

Mary  Posted: 14/07/2006 10:52

\"Holy Soldier\", what relevance does qoting whatever it is you quoted have to this discussion? Alchemist - all women you know are crazy? Really? How unfortunate.

Mary  Posted: 14/07/2006 11:02

Some of my post was cut off. I don't knwo why. I wanted to say that maybe Alchemist should get to know more women socially or in his work. Lots of nice normal non-crazy ones out there.

fifi  Posted: 14/07/2006 11:03

Mary... brilliant as usual girl! Wheres the women on this thread? Why is it only guys coming on being all defensive? come on girls.. give us your lowdown

Mary  Posted: 14/07/2006 11:09

Hey - thanks Fifi. Why is it that men get all defensive ona subject like this. It's almost as if some of them think women want them only for their reproductive capabilites

Andra  Posted: 14/07/2006 13:10

Men are not getting defensive sweetie. We are simply giving you the facts that without men the world would be a sad sad place. Females would still be living in caves and not even have inveted the wheel yet. Simply put just about all significant scientific/Medical breakthroughs and just about all inventions are made by men. Fact. It took a man to invent the tampon! All household appliances that you women use constantly well frankly you should all be thanking men everyday of your lives for how we have helped you through your day.

Equality Soldier  Posted: 14/07/2006 16:13

This comment is for \'Holy Soldier\'. I think before you go about making such comments, you need to be better informed (referring to the homosexual part of the bible you quoted). \'Homosexual\' wasn\'t even a word in the original scrpitures. References to homosexuality were added after the 1970. I challenge you to become educated about the matter.

Elena  Posted: 15/07/2006 00:18

In regards to cat fights and women hating each other...the root of women hating each other is competition for men. Once men are out of the picture, we should be friendlier to each other. :)

Dio(PPS49441)  Posted: 15/07/2006 08:39

Hey Andra, you should educate yourself a bit before instructing women to bow at your feet. You just come off as an ignorant bigot. You are way off mark by stating that all significant inventions and breakthroughs were made by men. Especially household appliances, heh, come on -- the home (including hearth and health) was the "realm" of the woman for the majority of antiquity! What man would invent appliances for tasks foreign to him?! Historically, for religious and political reasons, it was impossible for women to own property - hence, all their inventions/breakthroughs belonged to their husbands. But even so, women still managed to make their mark on history. Examples (appliances): - Automatic Dishwasher (Josephine Garis Cochran) - Refrigerator (Florence Parpart) - Washing machine (Margaret Colvin) - Canister vacuum (Nancy Perkins) - Cooking stove (Elizabeth Hawk) - Commercial oven (Emeline Hart) - Drinking fountain (Laurene O'Donnell) - Electric hot water heater (Ida Forbes) - Zigzag sewing machine (Helen Blanchard) - Hand-crank ice cream freezer (Nancy Johnson) - Video home security system (Marie Brown) Examples (household products, etc.): - Chocolate chips (Ruth Wakefield) - Scotchgard (Patsy Sherman) - White-Out (Bette Nesmith Graham) - Disposable diaper (Marion Donovan) - Windshield wipers (Mary Anderson) - Direct and return mailing envelope (Beulah Henry) - Rolling pin (Catherine Deiner) - Vacuum canning process (Amanda Theodosia Jones) Examples (medicine): - Syringe (Letitia Geer) - Nystatin, the first antifungal antibiotic (Rachel Fuller Brown & Elizabeth Lee Hazen) - Process to isolate the human stem cell (Ann Tsukamoto) - Drugs for the treatment of cancer and leukemia (Gertrude Belle Elion) - Home diabetes test (Helen Free) Examples (other science): - binary computer code, i.e. programming -- you wouldn't be reading this otherwise! (Ada Lovelace) - The computer compiler (Grace Hopper) - discovered radium and furthered x-ray technology, and was the first person to earn 2 Nobel prizes (Marie Curie) - petroleum refining, i.e. modern gasoline (Edith Flanigen) - Kevlar, steel-like fiber used in radial tires, crash helmets, and bulletproof vests (Stephanie Kwolek) - Life raft (Maria Beaseley) - Flare gun (Martha Coston) And lastly, as cheesy as this sounds, no man would be alive today without their mother's womb. Contemplate that a little. Here's a few informative sites to add some wrinkles to your brain: http://www.uah.edu/colleges/liberal/womensstudies/inventor.html http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0768070.html http://www.inventions.org/culture/female/mothers.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science http://www.enchantedlearning.com/inventors/women.shtml

john(KFH49351)  Posted: 16/07/2006 09:17

in answer to why only men are on this thread is because a site has linked it, and it would be entensity.net check it out, lots of good porn links

fifi  Posted: 17/07/2006 10:55

DIO - fantastic... well done you! Andra and your fellow moaners and sexist types.. come down off your high horse. "we should be thanking men every day of our lives" ? eh.. for what exactly? No one came on this thread slating off men.. you automatically jumped to the defensive & started slating women. Why do you dislike women so?

Jinxies  Posted: 17/07/2006 10:59

Wow relax there...some boys get so defensive when women take the controls. Hey, women are mothering types and therefore are more caring by nature... Men are hunter gatherers and therefore fighting is second nature to them. This doesnt mean that each sex isnt wonderful in their own way. Us girls need yee guys just as much as you guys need us girls. The annoying things that we cant understand about the other sex just re-emphasises our gender...and reminds us that its good to be a girl and good to be a boy..respectively!!! PS Girls Rock!!

Sheeba  Posted: 17/07/2006 13:15

Hi, I am a woman! But the thought of living on this planet with only women fills me with pure dread. Men are so gorgeous and cuddly, like little teddy bears. And who would I get to carry my bit of coal in for me or light the fire or put on a new gas bottle or change a bulb or change my tyre? We women can't do these things!

Modest Alchemist  Posted: 18/07/2006 06:25

wow... you all think i'm a guy... i'm so not a guy at all.. i'm 100% female... and you would know this if you had read the entire post. every wonam i know is crazy.. including myself. and i realize that this is because women are lead by their emotions whereas men are lead by logic. in an all female world, there would be nothing but havock, and everyone would be too busy worrying about what shoes to wear to be accepted by their peers to do anything about anything important.

Andra  Posted: 18/07/2006 09:31

Dio the best thing about girls like you is how you amuse me. Thanks for that!It's always great to start the day off with a bit of humour... I do not have time to check up on all the examples you have mentioned but here's an idea, you keep your choclate chips so you can eat while walking to work oh and that doesnt include taking a bus either. Frankly anyone who makes a dumb comment such as yours ".... no man would be alive today without their mother's womb..." is hardly worth debating with. Finally it all came together when I saw the one URL you gave - liberal/womensstudies ???? Wow and you expect anyone to take you seriously? I wouldnt touch any information originating from a feminist organisation with a bargepole. All you girls getting your knickers in a twist I dont believe either sex is more important than the other we are EQUAL. However we are NOT the SAME. Males can and do certain things better and females can and do certain things better. Sheeba no problem I will light the fire as long as you wearing that tiny underwear I like. I will keep you warm and you ease my mind - perfect combination.

Mary  Posted: 18/07/2006 15:42

Sheeba, I'm a woman and I can manage perfectly to carry in a bit of coal, light the fire, change a gas bottle, change a bulb and change a plug. I do however, value men for there many other qualities. Modest alchemist, perhaps you are but I for one am not some hysterical little female lead by my emotions. I am as logical as most men I know. Do you worry very day about what shoes to wear?? How bizarre!! Now Andra Dearie, what makes you think that without men, women would still be living in caves becuase to be honest, from certain postings it sounds to me as tho' certain men are still living in caves. What evidence do you have that it was amn who invested the wheel? You have an entire list of inventions / discoveries above that were made by women. Women in ancient egypt made tampons by rolling up papyrus waste (like a course type of coton wool). Frankly the man in our house uses the household appliances more than I do so there is no reason for me to thank any man on that score as they don' help me through my evening (I'm in work during the day) at all. Tiny underwear Andra - no probs but I can't garuantee to ease your mind.

ussnowbird  Posted: 18/07/2006 20:55

I agree with Holy Soldier. The Bible is our instruction booklet. He gave it to us for a reason. Paul said that everything is lawful but not all things are expedient for us. If we don't live according to His laws we will parish. Homosexuality may not have been mentioned in the original text in that way but the intent was clear or the english translation would have said something different. Wake up and smell the coffee!!

fifi  Posted: 19/07/2006 10:14

Sheeba darling.. can you not light your own fire or bring in your own bit of coal? Did you lose your legs in a terrible accident?

Mary  Posted: 20/07/2006 09:34

US Snowbird, you may regard the bible and an instruction booklet and so might \"holy soldier\' and you are entitled to do that if you wish but I and millions of others world wide do not and that is our prerogative. How do you know the intent as clear if you have not read the original text? Do you really trust every single translator in every single language over every single edition ever translated over the last 1600 or so years?? How very naive. Perhaps it is you who needs to wake up.

Andra  Posted: 24/07/2006 11:58

Why must people always bring the bible and god into discussions? Mary thanks for the offer baby but Sheeba seems more my type.

Mary  Posted: 25/07/2006 16:46

Baby!!! How very sweet! I am 33 you know! People, I think, bring God and the Bible into discussions because they beleive that displaying relegious belief somehow gives them the high moral ground!

Sheeba  Posted: 26/07/2006 04:33

Thanks Andra. I was trying to flirt with you in my last post but it got rejected. I thought I would have no problem with a sexual clinic and all after opening up. It looks as though this is still a bit of a taboo subject. Maybe the bible talk turned the editor off and he got cold feet! Talking about cold feet well I wouldn't mind warming....oops I better not! The editor mightn't like it. Okey, back to the coal so Andre. Fifi seems to think that I enjoy bringing in my own coal but no. I would rather a nice hunk of a man to carry it in for me and then give him a big old cuddle afterwards! And if it happened to be raining outside when he was collecting the coal I would go upstairs and get my softest towel, sit him on the chair and dry his hair and pat his face with it. Then I would make him a lovely hot cup of tea, put a few bickies on a plate, place them on a tray, put a cushion behind his back to make him nice and comfy and then watch him enjoy his snack with this loving look on my face!!

Mary  Posted: 26/07/2006 13:05

Hmm, Sheeba, editor probably reckons flirting is off-topic. Good grief, I've never met an able bodied man who could bring in coal but couldn't dry his own face and hair. Now I don't mind making someone a snack or cuppa and making them comfy as long as they are willing to do the same for me and I'm willing to take turns bringing in the coal - rain or no rain.

Sheeba  Posted: 27/07/2006 03:11

Most men Mary don\'t use a shovel for the coal. So they come inside with their big hairy hands all black and dirty! If it is raining outside they tend to wipe the rain off their faces with the dirty hands. If I then leave them use the clean soft towel they will ruin it with the dirty paws. Not only that but they have such strong hands and they are inclined to be too rough on their faces with the towel. That\'s where I come in! You see I will pat his face nice and gently and the first layer of his skin will still stay on and then I will pat his hair dry because if I let him do it himself large bunches could come out and then he would go bald! He would then be very upset if he went bald and then I would have to go off and buy him a toupee. So why waste money when it is far easier if I do it? Don\'t worry. After making him the cup of tea and the bickeys and making him comfy and looking at him with those loving eyes I then disturb him because the cat wants to go out!! I wonder if I am still the type of woman that Andre is after???

Mary  Posted: 27/07/2006 12:35

Sheeba, I have never yet met a man who didn't use a shovel for coal but prefers to dig with his hands. When my partner comes in after gardening, with dirty hands, he, like any person washes his hands first before using a towel. Nor have I ever met anyone who is inclined to hurt themmselves, pull out their hair or peel off the top layer of their skin!! Surely tho', if he did go bald, it would be his own money he would be using if he wanted a toupee. Surely now, you could let the cat out yourself!!

Andra  Posted: 27/07/2006 17:33

Sheeba you be the gal in your post 26/07/2006 and we will get on just fine. Your post after that though sounds a little freakish so I am having doubts here. But then again a good imagination in a girl is always welcomed. Of course you will need to move in quick because it seems Mary has the same idea about me as you do. I tell you what I will let you girls fight over me and I will decide in the end who gets me, ok.

Sheeba  Posted: 28/07/2006 03:59

Oh, Andre, that is a wonderful idea. I love cat fights! I have to admit the last post was a bit over the top. I was trying to test the waters to see if you were along these lines! I\'ll try and tone them down a bit so but only a little bit right?? Mary, surely you don\'t allow your partner to wash his own hands!! Men can\'t do anything for themselves. Do you not realise that?? Your job as a wife is to be Andres servant and to be willing to do everything for him. And boy, do I mean EVERYTHING! This is the only way men like to be treated so in future please wash his hands for him, use a nailbrush for his nails and make sure that you dry the webbed skin between his fingers. He could get scurvy or something and his hands are rough enough without making them any worse! No it wouldn\'t be his money that he\'d have to use Mary. It is my little allowance that I get for being such a good wife. He needs to keep his own money for his little few drinks every night of the week.

Mary  Posted: 28/07/2006 08:42

Wouldn't dream of fighting. Tell you what Sheeba, you can have Andra.

Mary  Posted: 28/07/2006 14:08

I don't like the thought of cats fighting at all. One of them might get hurt. The men you know can't do anything for themselves? How unfortunate. Have they all lost use of themselves? That is truely tragic. Either that or they are so used to their Mammies - or wives behaving like mammies behaving like servants, that they haven't bothered their lazy behinds to do anything for themselves in years. Perhaps Sheeba you need to meet a wider range or different type of man. Being a wife or partner to anyone is not a job. My job is 9 - 5 in an office Monday to Friday. Nor does any man I know need everything done for him - in fact they'd be either insulted or amused (probably amused) to hear you suggest it. The men you know like to be traeted like that? Ah, now I understnad, you work in a creche and are talking about "little men", those of 18 months old or so. That must be it. Well of course you must treat toddlers like that, until they grow a little older. You get scurvy from lack of vitamin C, it's quite rare nowadays. Are your hands rough Andra? If so, I recommend vaseline intensive care handcream. It's not expensive, unscented and works very well. You get an allowance for being . . . - oooh you got to stop now, I'm getting a pain in my side from laughter. On a serious note, tho', if your partner or husband is drinking every nught of the week, he should consider professional help as it may indicate a problem.

Sheeba  Posted: 28/07/2006 20:12

Do you not understand that a woman's work is in the home? How could you go out to work and leave your poor children stuck in creches? And your poor husband has to do everything for himself??? I am flabberghasted at this news. That is absolutely shocking. Men depend on women and are lost on their own. The only jobs they are capable of are bringing in the coal and piggy-backs...oh, and changing a light bulb. I love my piggy-back every night and the children love their's as well!! Where are you getting those fancy words about Vitamin C and vaseline intensive care! All you have to do is dry your webs properly with a towel and Bob's your uncle. I couldn't afford to be buying those fancy things with my allowance. And what are you laughing at my allowance for? This is the way it has always been. Do you not hand up your money at all at the end of the week? If you don't then you should get a clip around the ear! I suppose you use it to buy all your fancy frills and stuff. Well you may as well throw it all into the bin then. The way to a man's heart is through his stomach so it's food that money should be used for. I bet you don't even bake! You should be over a hot stove all day long with a long calico apron on you so that you won't have to change your clothes for a full week!! You have to watch savings everywhere. I bet you change your clothes everyday and have one of those fancy washing machines. For that you should get another clip around the ear!! Andre, I can't make head or tail of these modern women nowadays. Stay well clear of them. Nothing like a good old fashioned woman to have around the place who will give in to your every command. Pick me and I will truly worship the ground that you walk on!!!

...!  Posted: 30/07/2006 06:35

Hey guys, I've been reading your posts from over here in the U.S., you guys crack me up. I love hearing the Irish dialect. By the way, I agree with Mary, as a man, I think I'm pretty self sufficient when it comes to taking care of myself. I usually wash my own hands, clip my own nails, take my own baths and fix my own meals, and help my wife around the house and take care of the kids when I come from work. Please note, my wife also does a ton around the house too - we are both very busy working together for a common goal. We are equals as someone mentioned before, and we like it that way. It doesn't make her any less of a woman, nor I less of a man. I would love a world with more women, but I also understand that men also have thier place in the world. We kind of balance eachother out in many ways. Sheeba, would have loved to have met you, but alas, I have found my true love already. Sorry. Anyway, I just had to share my smiles from across the ocean and say hey to all of you guys over there. Been there once many moons ago. I love the green pastures and wish that there will be a day that I can return.

LfsIncredible  Posted: 30/07/2006 23:02

Sounds like a wonderful creation, when will this all happen?

Mary  Posted: 31/07/2006 16:49

No no no, gosh I can see that I have a lot of work to do to explain things to you Sheeba. Part of OUR work is in the home - my partners work and mine. I don't have children so the part about the creche is moot point. Well he's in work all day too. Now telling Andra that men depend on women and are lost on their own is frankly insulting to him. Don't mind her Andra, she's only having a laugh. I am also capable of bringing in the coal and changing a light bulb, or plug. The cause of scurvy is scientific fact. The way it has always been - neds changing - pronto! Except I know of course you're only having a joke. I haven't "handed up money at the end of the month" since I lived with my parents. Tho' funily enough, when my Grandad was a alive, he used to "hand up his wages" to my Granny every Friday. "a clip around the ear" - surely you are not advocating the crime of domestic violence! I've never bought frills in my life, lingerie aside and I'm sure you don't need a very boring rundown of my personal financial management. Oh yes, both he and I take out turns to go food shopping. Actualy I do bake! I quite like cooking. Wjat on earth would i be doing cookign all day - I don't work at it you know. calico - does that stuff exist. Not changing your clothes for a full week?? Og my goodness, how absolutely disgusting. Have you no concept of personal hygene at all? Oh I do save - I'm having for anew car at the moment. Of course I change clothes everyday - as I mentioned - hygene. No, our wash machine is quite an ordinary one. Of course you're right, there is absolutely nothing on earth like a woman to give in to your every command and Andra, I would advise you to give any woman who is psychologically unhealthy enough to worship the ground anyone walks on, a very wide berth indeed.

Sheeba  Posted: 01/08/2006 15:03

Does modern man now call himself ...!?? I'v seen it all now! You should come to me whoever you are and I'll give you a decent name like Teddy-bear or Coaldilocks or even U.S.A (you sound awful!). Anything but that! There is no such thing as equality in this world Coaldilocks. Women can only do certain work (most of it) and men can do very little. I bet you cut your fingernails all wrong and your bath is probably too cold. How do you propose to cut your fingernails with your weaker hand? You are too big and awkward to manage this delicate task. I have seen right-handed men wrapping the scissors around the flesh of their fingers rather then the nail. So give me that scissors and I will do it! When they get into a bath they just sit in it for a couple of minutes and don't know how to scrub and they don't fill the tub enough so they nearly come out as bad as they went in! I'll come up with you and use a bar of carbolic soap and I'll have you spotless in no time! Fix your own meals! Huh, that's a laugh! It's usually a big greasy fry-up with the pan smoking up the whole room! And then you usually leave all your dirty wear hanging around after you. Most of the time you would think a bomb hit the house so no thanks you are not going to be cooking in my house! I hope that true love of yours is reading this because if she is as bad as Mary for not looking after you then I pity you. It won't be long again when you will be dreaming of having a wife like me because I am good! Very good! A clip around the ear never did anyone any harm and if Mary had got a few of them she would be a much more loving wife today.

Mary  Posted: 02/08/2006 12:47

Don't know what country you live in but here there is equality, enforced by legislation. Men can do very little work? Now you're insulting Andra again. As I said before - perhaps you needd to get to know a whole different set of men. You have seen right-handed men wrapping the scissors around the flesh of their fingers rather then the nail? Astonishing - I have never seen such clumsiness in any man. Nor have ever heard of such examples of lack of hygene as you describe. !?? - stay wel clear of carbolic soap (actually it's unlikely it's even available any more), it useful only for scrubbing floors and does that rather poorly as it is The men you know leave all dirty wear hanging. How absolutely disgusting. Sheeba, I urge you to move out of your current domestic arrangement as soon as possible and find some civilised people to live with. I am wonderfully loving to my partner, who has no complaints. More loving indeed than someone such as yourself who would advocate the crime of domestic violence - which is at the heart of violence in society.

Sheeba  Posted: 03/08/2006 02:42

No, it is the lack of a clip around the ear that is at the heart of violence. What punishment is given to children nowadays? "Go up to your room this minute!". What good is that when they want to get away from you anyway! What can teachers do today with their pupils in school? Suspend them! Another free day off from school! What would happen with the clip around the ear? They'd make sure that they would never do that thing again and they'd have a hundred times more respect for other people and their property. Carbolic soap is still to be got today and it is far better than all those fancy perfumed soaps that most people are probably allergic to anyway. A man that has clean nails isn't a man at all. He's akin to a woman. There is nothing like a bit of dirt in a man's nails. It makes it look as if he was doing something anyway. The only reason that I go up to a certain doctor is precisely for this reason alone. He is one of us with his dirty nails. Civilised people are useless to society. They have no guts what-so-ever. Their politeness and their dress code are an insult to the people of Ireland who were always known to bring a bit of spice into the country. The less we associate with civilised people the better and more exciting lives we will lead. Most of the men in Ireland today need to find their animalistic traits again and start looking like men. All this feminity type of look is disgusting. That is for the women. Come to me Andre and you won't have to be putting on any acts for me or feel the need to be civilised. I want to see you for who you are and not for who you think you are. I'll help you all the way and you won't know what hit you after coming into my house!

Mary  Posted: 03/08/2006 14:22

domestic violence is at the heart of violence in society, not lack of it. That's akin to saying lack of rain is the cause of a flood. What would happen with the clip around the ear? They'd loose respect for anyone who had to resort to violence in order to discipline. It would nt stop them misbehaving, it would just make them resentful of the teacher and sly so as not to be caught. Respect - has to be earned. I don't use perfumed soap - altho' I smells very nice. Generally I use shower gel and hand wash. A man that has dirty nails, unless he is involved in work that is dirty by nature, gardening or mechanics for example, is absolutely disgusting and signifies only lack of hygene and laziness and says a lot perhaps about his upbringing. Oh good grief, you go to a Dr. with dirty nails. No wonder there is so much hospital based infection. the man should be reported and investigated before he makes someone ill. Civilised people are the very basis of society - otherwise we would be overrun by uncivilised savages. Politeness and dress code (for example for the office or a party) are among the hallmarks of respect. Uncivilised people - savages are far from exciting. The last thing I want to see anywhere is a man who is animalistic and uncivilised. The civilsed CLEAN men I know are not feminine looking in the last. Andra, the very best of luck to you with this character, you will need it, you brave individual.

Sheeba  Posted: 03/08/2006 17:50

Dear Andre, If you were to live in Mary's house then you will have to live in a bubble. Everytime you get the slightest bit dirty you will have to wash yourself. She'll never leave you touch yourself if you happen to pick your nose or scratch your arse! Is that how you want to live? When you take the kids outside to play in the grass having a tumble or something then you'll have to take off your clothes straight away and have a bath on the spot. The same will happen with the children. I bet Mary would pump every injection under the sun into them as well and they would never be allowed to be children. I know women who ring up the head teachers of schools because their children came home dirty! Did you ever hear such ****?? A dirty child is always a happy child and the same holds true today. Let them play with all the germs in this world and they will grow up as the healthiest men and women of this world. Too much hygiene if you ask me is the cause of all these illnesses that we have around today. My grandmother says there weren't half these things around in her time and if you got sick you were told to pull yourself together or given some kind of a herb mixture. People go to hospital nowadays with every little ache and pain. They are all hypochondriac and think they have something awful like cancer. That's what happens when you rear a civilised society. They take too much notice of themselves and what other people's impressions are. It's only a false impression afterwards. Is that the way you want to be all the days of your life Andre? Leading a false existence. Come to me and your real spirit will shine as it never shone before!

...!  Posted: 05/08/2006 21:01

Sheeba, I write this out of concern for the many misconceptions you may have on the world – especially on the world of men. One, men should not always be dirty and can be civilized without being feminine. I can understand why some men would be dirty and would need someone like yourself with your feminine charms to assist them in getting clean. However, there are even more men who are capable of cleaning themselves without a woman by his side. As Mary eloquently put it, if a Doctor were dirty, he shouldn’t be practicing. I’m also pretty sure that men are incredibly capable and smart enough to use a bar of soap, and can tell when the shower/bath water is too cold or even too hot for that matter. To think that men should behave like animals is insulting. I also shutter at the sight of a man who wastes his life by continually drinking his booze, watching his sports and living in filth while doing nothing to enrich his family’s life. Please keep in mind that though it may be true that a woman tends to rule her roost with cleanliness, there are other men who are incredibly capable of the same. I guarantee you that if you were to marry such a man, as previously described, you would get sick of him. On the other hand, if you were to marry a more civilized man, you may feel that he appreciates you more than the latter and is more a companion and contributor in the marriage than the other. But that could very well be arguable – because it depends on so many more factors – such as upbringing and outlooks on life. Also, do not underestimate a civilized man; without them, we would not be able to accomplish the many things we are able to accomplish today – (please note that this is not meant to discredit the contributions of a civilized woman either). You have to ask yourself; where would we be without the inventors, engineers, doctors, mathematicians, computer programmers, teachers, investors, business people and all of the other professionals of their fields? Without them, we would not benefit the many modern marvels we take advantage of today such as electricity, running water, warm homes, computers, cars, home appliances etc. Sheeba, without the civilized person, we wouldn’t have any of this. Instead we would be stuck back in the past in the era of hunters and gatherers and never experience the sweetness of progress. This is just one of the values of a civilized person. Without progress, we are stuck. Now, in your defense, there is also value in the working man – who you so eloquently describe as being dirty. Without them, not very many things would get done, or perhaps would go into disrepair. There is a need for maintenance men, construction workers, farmers, garbage men, etc. who do not necessarily have to be as you say… civilized. Which begs the question, exactly what do you mean by civilized? Because really, even these men, if they want to pursue their career in whatever field they belong to, still have to be civilized to a degree – in other words, we would have a world full of ciaos if they were not civilized to a certain degree and could not function as a society. Otherwise, it would be a place built around every man / woman for him/herself and live in a world of primal urges – or a world of savagery. What’s my point? My point is that there is value in people in all walks of life. If it were an extreme on both ends, there would be much disharmony in the community/society/world. It is necessary to have the civilized and (less)civilized person, of which I would argue that its not so much civilized/uncivilized, but rather those who are masters of their field – what ever walk in life. We need leaders/professionals and we need followers/laborers – each with their own set of skills to identify the objective and to get the job done. Now, to bring you to my next point, You also mentioned “more illnesses now as compared to the past.” Did you know that back then (x – 19th century) more people used to die from a simple fever than they do now? Catch the flu and you were almost done for. The issue isn’t so much that there are more illnesses now; it’s that we have recognized more of them, and can recognize their symptoms earlier/easier and have medications to help us recover from their destruction. I will say this however, in your defense: though we have medicines to help combat many of these diseases, there are bugs out there that have gotten use to some of the medications we now have today which require even stronger medications to help combat these bugs, and yet we are also not as healthy as we should be (due in large part because of the lack of exercise and a proper healthy diet free from chemicals and pesticides). You are correct in that we should allow kids to build up their antigens by being more exposed to it. It allows the body to learn to combat the ailments. We are perhaps getting too soft in that area. I think it’s interesting that you bring up schooling - as I'm studying to become a high school science teacher - particular in the fields of Earth Science, Physics and Chemistry. There are issues of childhood intervention that do need to be addressed, however, there are many problems associated with the old school of discipline such as spanking children etc. I agree with Mary that there are other methods to disciplining a school child and earning the respect of the child has to be one of them. As the old adage say's, "they don't know how much you know until they know how much they care." But enough for now, I think I’ve taken too much space. Brian, Previously …!

AKA ...!  Posted: 05/08/2006 21:28

By the way, what do you guys mean by "clip behind the ear?" I'm a little unfamiliar with the phrase. Brian

AKA ...!  Posted: 06/08/2006 00:37

Mary, The more I get to know Sheeba, the more I feel that she is living in a fantasy land. She seems to have these ideals that are not conducive to reality and stereo-typifies the relationship between men and women way too much and yearns to be a mother instead of a wife to the man she will someday love – i.e. picking up their dirty skivvies and giving them a bath while looking at them with her googly eyes. It honestly doesn’t sound like a healthy future relationship to me. I can tell that your happily married (or happily in a loving partnership - what ever the case may be) such as I, and have seen what it takes to make a marriage/partnership work. Sheeba, I know that you’re going to disagree and perhaps a little testy with me, and that’s ok, I can handle that, but with your permission, I do want to probe into the way you think and sincerely ask you a few pointed questions. Please keep in mind that I have the utmost respect for your opinion, and I am not in any way trying to demean your value of womanhood, or of your ability to be an effective and loving wife. I also want you know that though I disagree with you, I respect your choice of men and your lifestyle surrounding those men. First of all, do you think that there is a possibility that there may be flaws in your reasoning? Do you think that maybe your vision of men and the world is in any way false? I’m not trying to make fun of you, but I do see some things that are a little bit alarming. You brought up several concepts that that you’ve mentioned in several of your posts that I would like to address: 1. Men can do very little (I’m assuming you meant household chores and personal hygiene), 2. Women can only do certain things, 3. Men are inept, and cannot cook, clean, or help out with the household chores and need to have a woman by his side to take care of him hand and foot. One: do you really believe these things? Because I can assure you that all of them may be true about some men (if they’re lazy, and do not get educated and are incapable of thinking beyond themselves), but not all men. For one, I’ve seen men do quite a bit – even around the house. Two: I am also amazed with how much women do too – above and beyond their normal scope of life – especially single mothers – how some of them do the things their able to do is beyond me. Taking care of kids and working is a lot of hard work! Three: Men are not inept, and can clean after themselves quite well. It doesn’t take much of an education to know how to use a bar of soap – we will also not go bald if we dry our hair with a towel, and I would think that a smart man would use a shovel when digging/obtaining coal to heat the home as you mentioned much earlier in your posts – I wouldn’t know, I’ve never had the luxury to fetch coal to warm my house, nevertheless, do know there is a difference between working hard and working smart. I think we can figure these things out too. We may not be as bright as we think we are, but we’re not stupid either. The question you have to ask yourself is if you did marry your ideal man the way you’ve described him in your posts, what kind of father figure will he be to his kids? The way I see it is there would be a lot of problems in the future between the two of you. For one, though you want to pamper him, he may not want to be pampered. When we were first married, my wife once cleaned up the table and was putting everything away while I was still eating, and as soon as I took my last bite, the plate came off the table and placed into the dishwasher. Though she thought that she was doing me a service, it actually irritated me instead. The point is there are other ways of doing service for each other that are less intrusive. Two, after several years, you may resent having to “mother” him, and feel that “gosh, he’s always dirty, can’t he just clean up after himself every once in a while?” Three, you’re enabling him. You’re making him less of a man by him not taking responsibility for his own actions; instead, you’re cleaning up after his messes – which over time, could make him even lazier and disconnected with the family unit, but instead become a bum around the house and watch his TV while asking you for a beer. This could lead to even bigger problems many years down the road if he knows that you’re going to cover up for him and clean up his messes – say, beating you or the kids when he’s drunk – are you going to clean up his mess then? Though marriage and partnerships is all about serving one another and looking out for each others interest, there are unseen boundaries within that servitude that may be breeched, and over time, the little things like that may irritate him – especially if he knew that you felt he was inept. Guys do not want to feel inept in any way – and they’ll let you know it too. Perhaps this could be a case of differing cultures – as I’m not familiar with the Irish customs and cultural outlooks on coupleships; nevertheless, Sheeba, I can tell that you are indeed a very loving person and you do want to do what is right to whomever you wish to marry. But please remember that the single most important political decision you make is who you marry – that one decision alone can determine your level of happiness throughout the remainder of your life. May you and your future husband/partner – who ever he may be, have a wonderful time together….Andre? Have you made your decision yet? Brian Formally ...!

aka ...!  Posted: 06/08/2006 02:34

Sorry I'm taking so much time and space on these dialogues, but... The point is Sheeba, I didn’t want to marry a servant, I wanted to marry my best friend, one that I can talk to, serve, and love… one which we can work together for a common goal, for the greater good and for our families needs. This meant that we also looked after each others best interest beyond our own, which requires a level of sacrifice on both our parts. The one thing that I’m afraid of, Sheeba, is that unless I’m totally wrong about your views, your ideals will eventually leave you out in the cold while your partner can do no wrong and gains all from your service to him. What are your expectations in return – other than him working really hard, getting his hands dirty and head wet from the rain while fetching coal to warm your abode? Are you finding someone to love so you can be his servant? Or are you trying to find someone to be his partner (or help meet*) in life together? (*In Genesis, help meet meant in essence a team mate, partner etc. someone who was fit to work by his side, referring to Adam and Eve, not to be confused with help mate, which is a relationship based on master and servant - in case if you’re religious.) Now, what this has to do with the original article… nothing, unless your future man has issues with a low sperm count. But, you know, that would only become an issue if after you’ve given him a bath to wash the coal from his face, and you’ve looked at him with your googly eyes, and the both of you get an inkling to do something frisky after words. That’s when the civilized people who came up with the technology to help assist with low sperm count can help you out. Peace out.

Sheeba  Posted: 07/08/2006 04:09

AKA...! Sounds as though this name is from the planet Saturn! I was half afraid to read the posts first when I saw the name! I was sure out that I could be talking to an alien! Then as I went tentatively down along the post it was sounding too sensible for Saturn so maybe it's Pluto! Anyway I felt I had run a marathon after reading all the posts and I'm not sure where I should start answering. So then I got a cup of coffee and studied it again and I thought, "This AKA...! is putting in some work here to try and get Andre before me!" There actually is a cat-fight but it's in a civilised manner! Now I must up my stakes as well! "What type of man would I like?, is the question I think I'll take within all of these posts. Andre, forget about my rubbishy posts at the start. Listen to this. I too am looking for a man that I can call a friend to. Someone that I can preferably work with in the same job but also someone that I can talk personal stuff to. My man doesn't have to be good looking although I have a preference for tall, dark and handsome! You have to be taller than me no matter what. I couldn't bear it if you were smaller. You don't have to be a skinny lizzy either but somewhere in between. If you have big broad shoulders and dirty hands then you'll do fine. The reason I love dirty hands in a man is because I have a perference for men that work with their hands. By that I mean any good heavy physical job like labouring, building, carpentry ect. I get turned on by men showing off their physical strength. Now I know that other men do great work like doctors, scientists, computer programmers ect. and we wouldn't have the things we have today maybe only for them. However I think women are more suitable for these type of jobs and are an untapped source in society today. I also love men who continually look to improve themselves by learning new skills at night or having an interest outside of work. I am a great believer in the saying that too much work makes Jack a dull boy. The feminine side that I like to see in a man is someone that will whisper sweet nothings in my ear, cook a few dinners for me, be interested in going to see an opera or a ballet and who can pick out good underwear for me. He must be very well tuned in to what I want (I'd always be tuned into him) and should know for a fact whether I am faking an orgasim or not! (See, I'm not that old-fashioned, AKA...!) Most of all I want him to be a bit of an animal in the bedroom and to perform at his peak! How's that Andre? I bet you'll be running back to me now in no time!!

Brian - AKA ...!  Posted: 08/08/2006 05:44

Sorry bout the name thing. I kept clicking on the "show your name on every post", but it kept doing the other instead. good answer. I'll take that. Big smiles from America. Brian

Brian(IOZ50038)  Posted: 08/08/2006 07:07

By the way... no cat fight for Andre on this side... You see, he's a guy, and I'm one too. ...Its kind of a conflict of interest. Not my type. But I do hope that Andre is listening. Good luck. Oh, by the way, Pluto is very nice this time of year. You should come visit me sometime. Bring Andre if you can. We can have a picnic on the icy beaches, while we watch the faint star like sunset - and watch the comets wiz by. I do miss Saturn though - must admit. Something about them rings. I could talk about Uranus, but that might be too much to talk about for now. ;-) Take er easy. Brian

Andra  Posted: 08/08/2006 08:57

Sheeba you definately know your way to a mans heart! I like the women to be feminine (not overly girly but girly enough) and I like women liking a man being a man.

Andra  Posted: 08/08/2006 12:43

I would be more than happy to show you my physical strength if thats what turns you on - anyway I think all women are except only the brave ones like you admit it. Buying underwear that I like a women to wear for me is a delight in life. There is enough primal animal in me to satisy more than you can handle so no need to fake orgasms if I am around. Thats the problem with these \'modern politicaly correct\' women - they take all the fun out of our natural abilities of our sexes and try to paint us into the same species with the same needs. Well news for them is we have different needs. You might need sweet nothings whispered in your ear and thats fine a guy might need you to prance around in tiny underwear and that should be fine too. Pleasing the opposite sex can really be quite simple if you follow your instincts and put political correctness in the dumpster where it belongs.

Mary  Posted: 08/08/2006 14:04

Andra, if you are coming to my house, you can leave the children elsewhere as it\'s not really suitable for children. Absolutely I would have children vaccinated if they were suitable for vaccination - why would you allow a child to suffer from something that is a) preventable and b) potentially dangerous. Of course children should be allowed to play and run and have fun. No question. all these illnesses that we have around today are caused by either virri or infection, There weren\'t half these things around in your grandmothers time and strange yet that people died sooner form illnesses that are preventable today. If you have an ache or pain and it is persistent, have it investigated. Pain is a sign that there is something wrong with your body. Of course there is need for \'dirty\' work, by which I mean, DIY. Gardening, refuse collection etc but that does not mean that those workers shouldn\'t be clean ourside of their jobs nor does it in any way mean that they ae not civilised people. They may be just as civilised as someone who has a desk job. Sheeba, are those cats of your still fighting? I hope none of them get injured.

Mary  Posted: 09/08/2006 11:56

Andra, please tell me in the year 2006 that there aren't still women in the world who fake orgasms? If you know of any, then please please tell them to wake UP. Faking achieves nothing I don't know if you'd call me politically correct - you probably would and we are all modern except perhaps some of us have ideologies stretching back to the middle ages but I have plenty of fun, sexually and otherwise. I have news for you tho', we are the same species - we are are all human beings. And we do have most of the same needs. we all need watrer, food, shelter, heat, love, friedship, education, mental stimulation, exercise, humour in our lives. fullfillment, joy and satisfaction - and of course fun. If you need someone to prance around in tiny underwear, that probably pleases her as much as it pleases you. She enjoys your pleasure and your reactions just as much as you enjoy hers when you do something that pleases her. Pleasing the opposite sex, sexually has little to do with instinct and much to do with communication, trust, openness to learning and generosity (and I don't mean in the monetary sense obviously) Political correctness only has a useful role becuase there are people, sadly who believe that discrimination and inequality, sexual and otherwise has any place in a civilised world. If we could get rid of the boors, cretins and narrow mided chauvinists (both male and female) - then we would not longer have any need for the one which political correctness fulfills.

Sheeba  Posted: 10/08/2006 04:41

Hey, my last post got rejected! I don't know what I said out of the way! Still, we'll try another one. Andra, I have to admit that a man's strength is about the greatest turn-on for me. I am absolutely in awe of it and if there was a whole roomful of men that I could choose from, I would hold a competition to see who was the strongest. Then he would be coming with me. A really strong man in my eyes is a man who is strong in every sense and not just physically and they are usually incredibly gentle with women afterwards. I don't go out of my way to match men jobwise, around the house or with children. I prefer to show the differences between men and women. I will never lift something if I can't and I have no problem asking a man to do it for me even if it is taking off a Lucozade cap (which can be very hard at times!). I hope that you are tall Andra. I have a preferance for tall men rather then short men (and I don't mean that as any disrespect) it's just that I feel more protected in the prescence of a tall man. Yes...tall with broad shoulders and strong legs. You can have any colour hair or even be bald. Actually they say bald men are the sexiest in the world! I hope you like skirts because I love them. Trousers are too mannish. Long swisy swooshy ones that move with you with even a petticoat underneath or how about a chastity belt! I'm getting carried away here! I better stop before I get rejected again!

Andra  Posted: 10/08/2006 12:44

Mary you should really stop taking everything I write and what other people write for that matter so literally. Sometimes I think you are a robot that spits out automated messages. You also have no sense of humour and you certainly dont grasp the concept of satire. Which again convinces me we are not from the same species.

Sheeba  Posted: 11/08/2006 02:15

Mary, there are tons of women who fake orgasms! And there are tons of women who have never had them! It's quite hard for a woman to discover this for herself and even harder to find a man that can bring her to orgasm. Most women have to discover it first themselves and then try and teach the man what to do. Having a vaginal orgasm is completely different than a clitoral orgasm. The latter being more powerful. Loads of men can't get this technique right at all and in my workplace I hear them asking other men about it. Sometimes they ask me but I can't really explain it right to them! Criky, I'm not a qualified sex therepist but they seem to think I am! I bet for every 100 women out there, there are about 80 faking it or just never having one. There are also a lot of men out there who aren't prepared to get women ready. It's just straight up, a few pushes, a few grunts and it's all over! I hope Andre and Brian aren't like that!!!

Mary  Posted: 11/08/2006 09:03

It's true Sheeba, they say baldness is associated with higher testosterone. Andra, if you have seen some other peoples posts - you have to take them literally or they make no sense at all. Oh Andra, I have a great sense of humour. Reading that you think I haven't even made me laugh. Now I am not going to take that literally. There is a fine line, which many don't recognise between the irony of satire and just plain sarcasm. One can have a dry wit without being acerbic - but then again perhaps not everyone can. Nope, we're both human beings. At least I am asumming you Andra are human - aren't you??

B  Posted: 12/08/2006 21:09

For god's sake the last thing this planet needs is more people... Whether they come from freakish science experiments with lesbian clones or the plain old horizontal cha cha. Seriously ya'll need to stop breeding asap. All I see is posts saying if there were no men etc. or if there were no women... Hows abouts we find the gene for retarded a-holes and eliminate that because believe it or not penis or vagina theres a good chance you are a jerk plain and simple. There are masogonistic pigs out there and there are immasculating she bitches out there...both sides have their own ways of showing it. Plain and simple it's not a matter of sex it's just who you let yourself be. As for men being more prone to murder, rape, thievery well who the hell raised them anyway? Probably a single mother who couldn't keep her legs closed and wasn't ready to spew forth a brat upon this world and she probably treated said brat like crap for ruining her life... Said brat grows up to be your next John Wayne Gacy. But guess what, it's his pig fathers fault for running off too. I think that instead of coming up with more ways to make A-holes we need to start neutering the ones we already have. Let's start with all the people who derailed this into a discussion about relationships next up the entire UK then we'll move on to the middle east, asia, the rest of crappy europe, Israel and last but DEFINITELY not least the US. Procreation should be a privledge not a right.

Sheeba  Posted: 13/08/2006 04:20

Ah, B, be quiet and talk about orgasms will you? This is a happy conversation. I'm having a laugh anyway. Come on away in and have a laugh with us. You can give out about the population on a different site.

Nash  Posted: 13/08/2006 15:42

I'm sorry to burst your bubbles, but this is probably the most unbelievable story I've ever crossed on the internet, and that's saying alot. This isn't even remotely realistic.

Mary  Posted: 14/08/2006 10:37

Well Sheeba, if there are tons of your women friends who fake orgasms - they realy need to wake up a smell the roses. They are achievign nothing. If he (or she) doesn't know he's doign anything wrong he'll never learn to do anything right! There are tons of women who have never had them?? Sheeesh, they really do need to get 'educated', if you know what I mean. A visit to a certain shop in o'Connell St. Dublin (or similar) is required I think and a little exploration and self education is in order. Strange my partner and I discovered it quite easily. Not sure what age group you are in but most of my frinds (I',m 33 now) discovered it in their mid teens. qualified sex therepist or not, I say fair play to you for helping to try and explain it to them. Sadly this kind of thing sees to embarass meny people. "straight up, a few pushes, a few grunts and it's all over" - ugh, sounds neanderthal to me. B, while you have a point aboutn the planet being overpopulated, I think your remark about "a single mother who couldn't keep her legs closed ", is not only ignorant it is derogatory. There are plenty of single fathers and indeed married mothers and fathers who "cannot keep their legs closed". Not every child of a single parent turns criminal and to imply so is just plain old lack of eduation. Neutering is what they do to dogs B, not people. Again - edcuation. Procreation is a gift endowed by nature, neiter priveldge nor right.

Sheeba  Posted: 14/08/2006 14:19

Mary, If there are a lot of my women friends who are unable to reach an orgasm then you can be sure that this is a worldwide problem. Maybe they have already tried exploration but still haven't found what they were looking for. That's a song by U2 isn't it? "I still haven't found what I'm looking for...da, na, na!" Every woman's sensitivity spots are very different as well and discovering a clitoral orgasm is akin to learning how to play the violin! It also has to be tuned in first before you can play it. You also have to have a very good teacher for the pupil and you could be a great one Mary. But there are a lot of bad teachers out there too who would get impatient if the pupil can't get it right in the first go. Some women need a lot of foreplay before hand as well and many pupils haven't the patience for this either so yes some women get fed up and just tell them to hurry up and get on with it. Both of you also have to be in the mood for it as well as well as plenty time. Embarrassment is the biggest stumbling block in all of this. We could all explain things a bit better if people didn't look away, look down, look up, get red, avoid eye contact or start sniggering! They'd drive you mad when they are like this! B's comments about women keeping their legs closed reminded me of how my father used to say that to me when I was going out. If he had never said it I might never have opened them!

Mary  Posted: 14/08/2006 16:53

discovering a clitoral orgasm is akin to learning how to play the violin?? Of come on now, all my friends bar one have achived this but I would not let oen of them lose on a violin! True, you need to be tuned into your body and it's needs and the man (or womne) needs to be tuned into this too. True one has to have time and be in the mood. My man has a theory on mood that if I'm not 'in the mood' hen it is his job to get me into the mood. It;s important too that neither party are tired, I think. I think with embarrassment you have hit the nail on the head! This is a hige factor for so many people - Adults. Adults with kids even. Self-conciousness, awkwardsness, even prudishness.

Sheeba  Posted: 15/08/2006 02:49

Yes, Mary, I call my clitoris a violin! What do you call yours? Don't tell me that it is a drum?? Could you imagine that kind of stimulation? Boom, boom, bang, bang! Maybe in the middle of the orgasm it might come in handy. But you have to start off slowly and this is the only time that I would make a connection between an orgasm and classical music. See how most classical music rises very very slowly.... and then the conductor is gently waving his stick...then after a while he starts picking out certain instruments and letting them play on their own for a while... then he becomes serious and starts bringing all the instruments into play...his forehead frowns with sheer concentration and he pushes the stick down in his hands and the music gets louder and louder and louder...the heart starts beating faster and faster...muscians are furiously playing...the symbols are clashing...heaven and earth come together!....and then.... Everything becomes calm and gentle and the birds begin to sing (is it that time already!)and the violin plays one last string and is then laid down and put away. What do you think of my description Mary? Have you got a better one?? Did you notice any awkwardness or embarrassment in that description? I could be a bit more explicit but I'm not sure how far Irishhealth.com are prepared to go!

Mary  Posted: 15/08/2006 14:29

No, no awkwardness or embarrasment there. A voilin - never thought of it that way. I like the description of classical music but to me it\'s more like a riverflow. Start of a stream, starts to get bigger, deeper, fast and more powerful, brings everything with it, weed, stones, boats, tree branches becoming stronger and stronger along the way gathering more and more force and power until it crashes into a towering crescendo of a waterfall which bursts the gates of the river dam. Then when the power surge is finished it flows gently onto a wide river until it\'s energy returns to pick up speed again and repeat the process.

Sheeba  Posted: 16/08/2006 02:05

Well, when I saw the weeds, stones, boats and tree branches Mary I got a fit of laughing! I laughed so much that I couldn't see in front of me for a while! When I went over to get a towel you would think I had a blindfold on me! I hit my knee off one of those tree branches that got turned into a setee! I hope there were no nettles amongst those weeds and that the boat wasn't actually The Titanic sinking! The stones? Wouldn't it be great if you could have an orgasm that could shift kidney stones just like that! It's all in the words afterwards isn't it Mary? I don't think it is the pictures that are wrong in pornography at all. It is actually the words that they use. I think they can leave far bigger imprints on the mind then any photography. Some of the words are horrific and women are called all sorts of awful names. This is much better. Maybe we could start a business of our own Mary? By the way, are there any men looking in on this? What about ye describing the orgasms that ye have? In the same way as us of course! Who said this title was stupid? This could be one of the most interesting topics ever yet!

Mary  Posted: 16/08/2006 12:29

Oh Sheeba, I'm sorry about your knee. Glad you got a laugh tho. Perhaps I was a little bit too symbolic, the weed, stones, boats, tree branches are meant to represent your worries. ie, when you are in the zone so to speak sexually, it pushes all your worries away (great for stress that way). Kidney stones are I undersand excrutiating. Don't know if I'd like to move them that way. Hospital will zap them with nice little laser, down to dust and you can wee them away. Well they say a picture paints a thousand words and it's true words can be far more disrespectful than images.

Andra  Posted: 17/08/2006 15:12

I would describe mine as more of a volcanic eruption. Feels like there is a fire burning in the centre of the universe and it gets hotter and hotter, as the temperature rises and the pressure builds there is a low deep rumbling that can be felt.First the rumbling seems to be further away but it gets closer and closer. You sense what is about to happen and many times you realise its not time yet, the Gods dont want this to happen now, but you know that the inevitable WILL happen and you cant stop this no matter how hard you fight. The next thing you know you are in the middle of all of this and you start feeling the pressure build and exploding through the centre of the universe with violent force. Lava egulfes your whole being and rivers from where once where dry valleys.

Sheeba  Posted: 18/08/2006 01:56

Great to see a man on here isn\'t it Mary? By the way my knee is fine and you don\'t have to worry about it during your orgasms! Andra sounds quite different then us alright, wouldn\'t you say Mary? Andra described a heat but I don\'t think we have a heat sensation at all. I think our heat comes afterwards. I also think that ours could be more described as earthquakes rather than volcanos. We\'re very tremory and many a muscle seems to quiver in the lower section of our bodies. Andra\'s is much faster than ours as well and I think that we are lucky in that we can hold off our orgasms much easier then he can with his. Is there any other part of your body Andra that gives a clue as to the source of the orgasm. Would you also say that you need the heat from our tunnel in the ground to have the best orgasm or is equally as good without it? If you don\'t need the tunnel in the ground how do you come to orgasm without it? Would you have to use a lot of imagery to reach an orgasm stage? Even if you are in the tunnel do you still use other pictures to tip you over into spurting your lava all over the place or is your partner enough to do it?

Mary  Posted: 18/08/2006 08:25

What an excellent description Andra, I must run that past my man and see if he thinks the same

Mary  Posted: 18/08/2006 11:01

It is indeed. Oh believe me I worry about nothing whatsoever during those. That's astonishing Sheeba, our heat DOES come afterwards. True also, sometimes I feel as tho' all my muscles are quivering - from my feet right up to my neck. can you hold off yours Sheeba, By heck you must tell me how you can do that. I can only ever manage to hold off mine for a minute or so. I think we are very lucky tho' in that we can go on to have a second or third. Wheras a man needs an hour or so of rest afterwards? Do you find that Andra or is that just my Man? Of course maybe you are younger then him - that might make a differnce too. Yes, the imagery qustion is interesting too Andra? My mna says he doesn't use any imagery, it's too disracting. Would you say other men are the same Andra?

Andra  Posted: 18/08/2006 12:14

Many questions to answere... you girls seem to be getting very excited over this topic! Another clue as to the source of my orgasm would be the beginning of some spasms in that area (dont know whats its called) between the scrotum and the anus.You can actually feel it spasm before and during orgasm, its actually an area that can give a guy great pleasure if you apply pressure there. Pressure there gives a man an erection pretty quickly - apparantly because applying pressure there in turn puts pressure on the prostate gland. The tunnel in the ground is a great way to orgasm but not necessarily always the best way. Depending on my mood really. The heat and narrowness from the tunnel in the ground does feel superb though!Manual stimulation or oral stimulation can be just as good. Imagery is used most of the time .Without any effort really, it happens naturally. Not necessarliy images but also actions and words can be replayed in the mind. I somtimes find myself thinking of sexy conversations with a female rather than an image of a female and its just as arousing for me, sometimes even more. Even in the tunnel I sometimes use my imagination. If there is no tunnel around I always use imagery 99% of the time in media form. Orgasm can occur quicker that way , although I enjoy holding it off even for up to a day or two after reaching the brink a few times.

Sheeba  Posted: 18/08/2006 14:58

Mary, I think you are having a stronger orgasm then I am. Your one reaches your feet right up to your neck. Mine is from the thighs up. I'm jealous! How do you get your one down that far? Holding off an orgasm is down to precision timing Mary. I love doing this and it is such a great game. It takes a while to get into it and you will definately need a bit of practice first. You have to catch it a bare second before it starts to flow but enough to give you great pleasure at the same time. You might have to use simple images for this for a while like a weighing scales or the world on it's axis or even the key slightly turned in the ignition but not enough to turn it on completely. Your images have to be perfectly in harmony and it is no good if one side of the scales is dipped even the slightest bit. You must do this first just to get to the stage where you could stop. As soon as you reach it you must shout out in your mind something like, STOP, NO MORE! And you must shout it really hard. Another good one you could use is in the film Braveheart when Mel Gibson is ready for his first battle. There are a load of sticks on the ground and Mel Gibson keeps shouting HOLD until he has the timing right. This is for those who would take a little longer in their timing. The difference though between both timings though I think is absolutely tiny. There may only be 10 seconds of a difference. You'll be in heaven when you get it. You really will because then you can bring up and down your orgasms like a yo-yo and can decide when you would like to stop. You could end up being on the verge four or five times in a row depending on how love-making is actually going. This is what I call a good decent session!

Andra  Posted: 18/08/2006 14:59

Mary to answere your question it takes 15-20 minutes for me to be ready again. I can also orgasm 4-5 times in a 'session. I am 35 years old. Dont know if all guys are like this - we dont really talk about this things with each other. Although I must admit I do have a strong libido. I think it can vary alot between people.

Sheeba  Posted: 18/08/2006 15:42

Mary, I think we have a little boaster on our hands here! I bet we women could double that amount in one night Andre!

Andra  Posted: 18/08/2006 16:02

Sheeba I enjoy doing the exact same thing as you. I love being brought to the very edge or orgasm and then holding off. It is a very difficult thing to do but extremely enjoyable. I find that at that point I have to keep entirely still. If I move any part of my body I wil go over the edge. I have gone a week of doing this 3 - 4 times a day. This is called orgasm denial. I have sometimes worried though if there might be a medical risk in doing this, especially for the guy. Perhaps fluid which has travelled a distance already should be expelled rather than kept in?

Sheeba  Posted: 18/08/2006 17:40

You have to hold completely still and not move a muscle Andre? I haven't noticed that because my man can't control himself like I can at all and this 'holding of muscles' happens only when he has an orgasm. If you are worried about the fluid well then I could say the say thing because I am holding back a certain amount of fluid too but I imagine that when one finally orgasms then the whole lot will shift together anyway. I have often been soaking wet afterwards and even had to change the sheets. So I don't think it stays in the body at all. Anyway I'm certainly not going to worry about that part because playing games like this is far more entertaining. I also thought it was very interesting when you said that you could hold off even until the next day. That would be too long for me because after all I could have another one tomorrow. But maybe men are different that way because we women have our times anyway when the last thing we want is an orgasm. We have to have a rest now and again! You also spoke about pressure in the area between the scotum and the anus. I thought you would use the word stroke here rather then pressure. I thought this was an extrememly sensitive spot in men or at least that is what I am guided to do. Could the prostrate gland get damaged I wonder if too much pressure was put on it? Your source is also starting from down there in that spot as well. Does your chest area or your back or neck do anything for you? It seems a bit of a shame that you don't have other spots like we do. We seem to have them all over our body.

Sheeba  Posted: 20/08/2006 03:40

Andre, When you are inside in the tunnel do you ever stay still as if you are having a look around into a secret room? What does the room look like?

Mary  Posted: 21/08/2006 09:05

Yes, Andra, I must admit I am interested in this. You see Andra I don't have all that many male friends to ask these questions of anf they're quite shy bout this sort ofg topic. The good thing about these sort of fora is that we don't know one another and have never met - hencre non one feels embarrassed or shy. Sheeba I think every is different. Just because you feel it differently does not mean that your are any less strong. I must try this technique for holding off so. Tell me 'thom does it affect subsequent orgasm during he same 'session' so to speak. 15 - 20 ,minutes Andra - that great. I know some women and it takes them longer than that! 4 - 5 times in a session? Really?? And they say women have more fun in that regard. Seems you have just as much fun as a lot of women. Tell me, are you very physically fit or do you just make sure to eat your porridge every day?

Mary  Posted: 21/08/2006 14:12

Sheeba, do you have times anyway when the last thing you want is an orgasm?? I find this is not true of me. OI irednes is the problem, I suggest you get him to do all the 'work' so to speak., If it's due to stres, well orgasm can a great stress reliever. If you feel a bit down it can have a great effect on improving your mood. It can even help you slepp if you have insomnia. You might need more han one but it's much more pleasant than a sleepign tablet. It's true tho' we do have those special spots in lots of places. I don't understand the comment about the secret room? Perhaps I am niaeve. Could you enlighten me?

Andra  Posted: 21/08/2006 15:02

Sheeba I like holding off for a few days because it's an immense challenge really. I think for the female you could with no problem go 1 week without orgasm where as for me I recently managed 1 week with no orgasm and it was exremely difficult. Its probably the first time I have gone so long without an orgasm since I started masturbaring at 14 years old. Men also get aroused many times in the day so there is a constant need (well for me anyway). I doubt the prostrate gland can be damaged by applying pressure there. Yes I definately prefer pressure to that area rather than stroking. Especially during orgasm. I cant say caressing me anywhere else other than my genital area turns me on much. So chest, back neck doesnt really do anything for me. I do stay still in the tunnel for very long occasions just enjoying the view. I would gladly describe the view and the feeling to you in great detail but I dont think Irish Health will be happy with me. On another forum or MSN no problem Sheeba. Mary I am not particularly fit. I do moderate excercise. Football once a week, jogging about twice a week. so I am average in fitness. I dont eat porridge though because I cant stand milk - maybe thats the secret? Actually I do have a wild imagination so inevitably I keep turning mself on instinctively sometimes my mind just drifts and the next thing I know I am aroused. I have a question for you now - if you have had a late night out and you wake up with a hangover are you horny? I sometimes feel I am the only person in the world on this one because when I wake up with a hangover I am extremely aroused.

Mary  Posted: 21/08/2006 17:06

A week without orgasm is something I would find very difficult also. I think a lot of women would feel the same. Oh we\'re very similar there. Women get aroused seveal times during the day (or night) also. On another note, I eat porridge without milk. I make mine with water. I think imagination really does have something to do with it as well. Believe it or not Andra, sex is fantastic cure for a hangover. I think when we drink and sleep late, out bodies are thne very relaxed and physically rested. Strange as it might seem a friend of mine suffered with period pain for a while and claimd that orgasm is the perfect cure. She said it worked better than ibuprofen.

Sheeba  Posted: 21/08/2006 18:06

Mary, I find that when you hold off the final orgasm is 100 times stronger then if you gave in to the first one. I prefer to leave them build up so that I can get an arch in my back that will send me towards the ceiling! Sometimes though I don\'t have enough energy for this so I will tend to go for the weaker orgasm then. But I nearly always make sure that I have one because it definitley promotes sound sleep and I think the mind can remember dreams better afterwards and an orgasm can inject a bit of power into a bad dream in that the dreamer doesn\'t feel as afraid during it. The reason I am asking about the room is that I want to see it from a male perspective but I could ask you Mary the same question as a woman by asking you what your secret room or womb would look like if you could maybe put it onto a canvess. For instance, when I look at that secret room I see a white furry carpet on the ground where I stand in my bare feet. On the walls there are the most incredible paintings mostly of water, suns and sea-birds. The sun is alwasys a red colour and the birds are snow-white. There are beautiful figures of people placed on golden coloured stands inside in this room and they all have wings. Every pair of wings are completely in harmony with each individual piece and each face is inspiring. When I come into this room I read and write usually with a quill pen. I could go on a bit more but that is what I was looking for when I asked that question. I believe that the mind can see incredible things during sex.

Purrr  Posted: 22/08/2006 03:57

Andre, That is a very interesting challenge you are giving yourself. You say that you get aroused many times during the day. Why would you say that? I suspect that you are in love with life itself. Maybe you know when other human beings, flowers, animals or even rocks are making love. I too feel very aroused every day. You want to experience the orchestra surely rather than one instrument? Imagine how it would feel if you felt that there was a potential orgasmic feeling in every area of your body. How cool would that be? It can be done especially with the right partner.

Mary  Posted: 22/08/2006 08:54

Hey, I get that arch in my back too Sheeba! I thought I was the only one there. What I'm wondering is, if you hold off on the first one, does that make the second and subequent ones a lot weaker? Strange tho', I'm either ones of these people who just doesn't dream very much at all or I don't remember dreams after sex. What would my womb look like if I could put it onto a canvess. You know, I have absolutely no idea whatsoever. I have never thought about any of my internal organs that way! Sheer lack of imnagination perhaps. As for what the mind can see during sex. i suppose it might depend on where you're doing it, the mood your in and he posistons you're in. Sunsets, shooting stars and huge rolling waves tend to go through my mind sometimes - all a bit pedestrian I suppose. Still I'm very happy with it. Andra, what do you see? Is it the same for men or something different entirely?

Mary  Posted: 22/08/2006 10:37

Purrr, lots of people get aroused several tiems during the day or night. But there IS A potential orgasmic feeling in every area of your body.

Andra  Posted: 22/08/2006 12:10

90% of all women I have been with arch their back so Mary and Sheeba you are not alone there. Purr yes I definately want to experience the whole orchestra! I know people might say they get aroused during the day but with me it is an exceptionaly strong arousal. I would love for every part of my body to be orgasmic Purr, can you imagine that? Wow what a brilliant thought -

Mary  Posted: 22/08/2006 16:26

Andra, I am curious now as to what the other woman did instead of arching her back! But it would be rude to ask, I know. There IS a potential orgasmic feeling in every area of your body. Personally I can count nine areas of my body that are like this.

Meooow  Posted: 23/08/2006 03:27

Mary, it doesn't sound a bit pedestrian to me but you could do with a bit of colour. It is no good me telling you what colors are there. That is something you must discover. The huge rolling waves would give you an impression of places like Hawaii where a lone surfer rides the waves. He's usually male though. Are you sure you are not a man in disguise Mary? Still, I suppose in the time we live in now there are probably plenty of women riding the waves. I think your inside organs are a place that you need to start first with. After all orgasm comes from inside doesn't it? I'd feel a shooting star going up my spine alright and sometimes I wonder if it is the mind leaving the body for a while, searching around the world, coming back in after it's wonderful trip and fully relaxed and refreshed. Sometimes I think it travels very long distances in just a split second but has no concept of time. If one became aware of this you could probably train the mind to go where you want it to go to pick up vital information.

Purrr  Posted: 23/08/2006 03:32

Andre, You think that you are the only one who is exceptionally aroused during the day? Well, I am too. Mary says she has nine different spots on her body that can be aroused. Don't tell me that you only have still the one place. What about last night? Did you try discovering anything new?

Mary  Posted: 23/08/2006 13:00

A bit of colour - are you saying I should be seeing colours during sex? Nope, am 100% all woman, I can guarantee you that. Heck, there are plenty of female surfers out there and just for the record, it is not recommended that you surf alone in case you get into difficulty with high winds, strong currents or rip tides. A out-of-body experience during orgasm would not be unheard of you know. Meoow, are you the same person as Sheeba? Purr, Just for clarity, are you male or female.

Charlotte(MBM29174)  Posted: 23/08/2006 16:12

You needn't see colors with your physical eyes but you need to at least imagine that they are there. Colour I think is very important so yes I would be inclined to play with them a lot. I don't know about using a 100% figure for truth anymore. I think we need to double that figure so I'm still not certain whether you are telling me the truth. Personally on this particular subject I would prefer to communicate with a male. I don't feel comfortable talking with a woman but I don't want to insult you. I think the high winds, strong currents and rip tides are very strong at the moment. In fact they are unbelievably so! One has to be on one's guard all the time but I am coping. I am 200% female. Does that answer your question?

Anonymous   Posted: 23/08/2006 23:30

I would be very interested in knowing what kind of foods would make a person feel an orgasm more. I know that fruit is one of them and pears are one of my favorites at the moment.

Mary  Posted: 24/08/2006 09:09

Well the words per cent mean - out of a hundred. Therefore the highest percentage you can haave mathematically is 100%. Yes I am utterly and completely female. Why on earth would anyome say otherwise if it weren't so?? Really, it's funny but I feel more comfortable talking to a woman about this kind of thing. I guess becuase I know we work the same way and have all the same parts so to speak. I di think tho' that getting a male perspective on it is very interesting as I don't have many male friends. If you mean the high winds, strong currents and rip tides are very strong at the moment in the sexual sense, then why would you need to be on your guard? I would have thought that it would have been very enjoyable. If you mean it quite literally in terms of surfing or sailing then I would definitely advise anyone not to surf under those kind of sea and weather conditions.

Laural  Posted: 24/08/2006 13:23

This is becoming comical!! Go on, make me laugh some more. That was Hardy enough now was it?

Mary  Posted: 24/08/2006 15:10

No Laurel, why don't you post something yourself and see if you can make us laugh?

Kate  Posted: 12/04/2007 01:21

Alright, here's a question for you guys /and/ straight women--why the hell is it any of your damn business if science develops a way for lesbian women to have children with each other? I suggest caution in answering if you'd like to avoid a thorough ranting, as I do in fact have..."personal experience relating to the matter at hand".

Mary  Posted: 12/04/2007 10:07

No business at all. As logn as chilkdren are loved & looked after, it's none of anyones business except the parens in question.

Mike  Posted: 13/04/2007 17:22

This is absurd. Scientist have been wrong so many times over that it's funny. It's the same way God always intended it to be; Male and Female produce.

P(PRafter)  Posted: 14/04/2007 21:56

Some guy with a girly name and an aversion to milk told everyone, midpage, that he needs a hangover in order to wake with an erection; if I ever wake up without an erection, I won't be telling all and sundry; my wife will know, obviously, but I don't think she'll want to broadcast it either. 'Could be an age thing, but he should get it checked out anyway. Thank you

Anonymous   Posted: 16/04/2007 09:45

Sure, anyone can provide a sperm and an egg but it takes one hell of a lot more than that to make a parent, regardles of gender. Scientists have been creating life in IVF technology for years now. What matters is not how sperm and eggs are produces but what happens to them should they grow into children.

Suzanne  Posted: 16/04/2007 14:02

Saw on the the metro (north Dublin freesheet) that scientists can now make sperm in a lab! Didn't read the article but my (male) colleague who showed it to me looked rather worried!!!

ghothips  Posted: 17/04/2007 15:49

hey i am a lesbian who is getting married next year-my partner and i are desperate to have children which are our own-i really want to find out more about this-and how many years it will be before it is available?any ideas?also men will never be extince because unless the whole worl of women turned lesbian its doubtful women will all opt for this way-after all the natural way is more fun!

mike  Posted: 17/04/2007 21:46

Fifi's Premise that a world dominated by women, 12/7/2006 would be less violent does not come reasonably close to reality, Why? well women are human with the all the traits that flow from that. If i may add, scientific research proves that it is possible to incubate the fertilised eggs of humans too in an artifical womb

Rob(QLD49385)  Posted: 26/04/2007 17:48

Message for Equality Soldier... true the Bible may have started adding homosexuality after the 70s.. but the Bible still states that it is detestable....DO NOT LOOK FOR EXCUSES.. SIN IS SIN... Leviticus 20:13 (King James Version) 13If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Anonymous   Posted: 27/04/2007 10:20

Rob, what are you talking about - would you ever get your head out of the clouds (or some place else). You are quoting some book, written eons ago by writers unknown that has been translated mistranlated and had bits added and removed according to what suits the political climate at the time. Besides, as any Chistian will tell you, they are commanded to follow the new testament, not the blood and brimstone of the the old testament.

P(PRafter)  Posted: 27/04/2007 12:58

Rob, as an atheist, I keep telling myself the comments above are intended as some kind of joke; the alternative certainly doesn't bear thinking about. Thank you.

knipex  Posted: 27/04/2007 16:10

Oh grow up the lot of you.

Rob  Posted: 02/05/2007 03:36

First comment for Anonymous: Obviously you are not a Christian... Let it be old or new testament it is still the word of God...The writers were picked by God and the Holy Spirit guided the writers. If you have time read the following verse: 1 Corinthians 6:9 Have a blessed day.

Rob  Posted: 02/05/2007 03:38

Hello PRafter If you really want to know the alternative, I invite you to read the book of Revelations in the Bible. I respect your decision to be an atheist but there is a God an we will all have to answer to Him at some point in the future. I will pray for you and your family. have a blessed day.

knipex  Posted: 02/05/2007 12:11

Rob I am hoping htat you can at least open you mind for 10 seconds. The Bible was written thousands of years ago. It has been hand copied and translated many many times since them. It has been added to and parts removed from over the years. Do you accept this ?? There was no mention of homosexuality in the bible untill the 1970's so the bible was infact added to at that time. Do you accept this ?? If you compare the oldest copy of the bible available (in its origional language not in translation) it is vastly different to the St James bible in use today. Which one is the correct one ?? Or do you beleive that the bible has changed over the years to adapt to modern life.

mike  Posted: 02/05/2007 12:56

Rob, As you are allowed to hold your individual beliefs in this Democratic State so others have the right to hold their own and are entitled to express them without fear of being threatened with eternal damnation. Please!! remember this a scientific discussion on the practicality of stimulating human females to produce sperm.

Anonymous   Posted: 02/05/2007 13:35

Anonymous here. Rob, you are incorrect. Christians are commanded to follow the new testament. I have read your second post with it's attempt at narrow minded condescension and realise P Rafter is right. It is all some kind of big joke of yours. Well done. Very funny

P(PRafter)  Posted: 02/05/2007 18:53

Thanks for the plug, Anon; you're right, Rob's twelfth century rhetoric is obviously intended as a wind-up. He should try it out on the stand-up circuit! Thank you

gemma(FLI61073)  Posted: 03/05/2007 23:41

I apologise if i have distressed robn with my sinful ways-but i have a strong faith in god-faith in him enough that he created me as he created the rest of the world-which means he made me of who i am.god loves a sinner hates a sin.and if you are a christian-why are u involvong yourself in such a debate where many christians believe that these sort of fertility treatments are humans trying to play god? no disrespect meant.

Rob  Posted: 08/05/2007 03:44

Hello knipex. I accept that the Bible has been translated over the years, so that people have a better understanding of the Gospel. The context of the writing is still the same.. Correct, homosexuality may have been started to be written after the 70's but before that it was considered indecent sexual behavior.. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve...... That was the main reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Keep in mind that the Bible was indeed written over 1000 of years ago. During all it's translations the root meaning is still there... Times are coming to an end and if we don't follow the word of God there will be a price to pay..... It doesn't matter how many women will be able to produce sperm.. that is if God allows it to go that far.....I hope that you will also have an open mind and understand my reasoning.. Jesus loves you and I want you as much as every reader to understand that....Be safe and may God bless you.

Rob  Posted: 08/05/2007 03:55

Anonymous and PRafter: Any Christian knows that the New Testament also says that indecent sexual behaviour is also sin.... I can guarantee you this, you will both have to answer for your sins at some point in the future... The coming of Jesus Christ is nothing I considered funny and I am only trying to let you understand this.... I hope that every reader will also realize this... Instead of finding ways for science to discover how a woman can produce sperm.. How about spending that time to find cures for other illness, for example, cold, aids, cancer... OOOHHH yes.. they haven't found one..... God will only let men go in research as much as He wants... You have a blessed day and I hope that at least I touched one soul out there... Amen.

Natalie Das  Posted: 08/05/2007 06:21

If women could create sperm alone, the offspring would not only be xxxx. it could be xxxy also. but eventually when women stop breeding with men and only women are breeding with women...all offspring will be xxxx, therefore, men need to keep electing male presidents and keep women out of art history and main history books. This will solve men's lack of ability to handle the future....because MEN...you can't handle this! ha

Anonymous   Posted: 08/05/2007 11:26

Rob, you think that the Bible has been translated and mistranslated over the years, so that people have a better understanding of the Gospel?? Rather than to suit the political climate and theocratical whims of the time? How naive. Before the 1970's homosexulaity was not considered anything. It simply existed. Homosexual behaviour was considered indecent sexual behavour - by the law perhaps but it wasn't considered to be anything by thre bible becuase it simply didn't exist in the bible. God created Adam and Eve? Don't tell me you really beleive that parable? Then you say "Times are coming to end" Doom, gloom and brimstome. It just gets funnier tho' when you mention about others keping an open mind. You selectively pass judgement on 10% of the population and then talk about open-mindedness. My sins? Which sins? Don't you commit all these sins too Rob? Yes cures for aid and cancer are very important and already being researced - but a cure for the hundreds of diferent variations of common cold? Come off it. Equally solutions for infertility are also important.

P(PRafter)  Posted: 08/05/2007 15:50

It seems to me, Natalie, you're blowing out of proportion what is essentially a useless, though, interesting, biological "lab. curiosity". 'Think I get the unmistakable whiff, if you'll pardon the pun, of penis-envy. Interestingly, men don't appear to envy women *their* sexual organs. Thank you

Anonymous   Posted: 08/05/2007 16:48

Ah now, P Rafter, you don't really believe all that long disproven Freudian baloney. I dn't know one woman that envies a man his sexual organs. Not one.

P(PRafter)  Posted: 09/05/2007 16:13

"Not one" Anonymous? Thou dost protesteth too much, methinks! I don't believe Freud was given to making things up, or that continued defensive denial can be said to disprove a theory. A woman's refusal to admit to, or failure to believe the existence of penis-envy signifies little here. I'm not suggesting women are consumed by, or are preoccupied with it, but it is contained, to some degree, within the female psyche. It has to do with "visibility" perhaps, since the male genitalia is normally outside the body. Thank you

Anonymous   Posted: 09/05/2007 16:38

I typed the phrase "Not one." only once and you interpret it in a Shakesperean manner. A little paranoia perhaps? Many of Freud's theories, particularly in the areas of developmental psych and female sexuality have been long since disproven. Clitoral funciton contributing to marital dysharmony, female sexuality being a "dark continent", boys wanting to kill their fathers in order to marry their mothers? Aw come on now? Do you have even a shred of evidence to suggest that "penis-envy" is contained wthing a woman's psyche? Certainly women are curious about male sexuality - just as men are curious about female sexuality. That is perfectly healthy to me and entirely unrelated to envy.

P(PRafter)  Posted: 10/05/2007 17:24

Pouring scorn on facts one finds awkward won't wish them away, Anonymous. Reducing Freud, the giant in psychiatry, to the status of mere crackpot won't wash either. Indeed, your recent posts provide virtual confirmation that men are still that bit more open(ouch!)about their sexual peccadillos than women are. Thank you

Anon  Posted: 10/05/2007 17:50

And re-hashing pet theories (for that is all it was) long disproven does not revive them P. Reducing Freud, many of his theories havign been disproves, is no long the the giant in psychiatry he once was - tho' no one is callign him a crackpot either. That is interesting - and which sexual peccadillos are these? Incidentally, you shoudl find openness about sexuality at all painful (at least not in civilised society anyway)

P(PRafter)  Posted: 10/05/2007 22:15

(sigh!) I wish you'd make up your mind about Freud, Anon; either he's a cornerstone of psychiatric science or a voluble crackpot---he can't simultaneously be both! Thank you

mollymop  Posted: 07/01/2008 20:34

Hi, Can anybody help, I am looking for info for sperm donation in ireland. i am gay and with my partner 6 years need help

---  Posted: 07/04/2008 06:29

PRafter, he indeed can be both. Freud began a school of study; that does not necessarily make him credible. And many of his findings were proven incorrect, yet that does not make him entirely incredible. Science, or psychological study to be exact, is a variable thing. Furthermore, I have observed 'ovary envy' so far as much as I have observed 'penis envy', as men feel inferior in the light they can not be impregnated. I find it a curious thing that men, when confronted with intellectual threat, or suggestion of male inferiority, often claim the female is crazy, stupid, or envious. A curious and telling reaction indeed..

Richy  Posted: 26/09/2008 02:29

I think the truth is, men and women are much more similiar than any of them is ready to admit. I also think that lots of young men today have great complexes and problems with their masculinity. Of course everything has its own reasons. Masculinity has always been associated with strengh, protection, competativeness, roughness, stoic attitude etc. A strange fact regarding, that practically the whole love poetry was written by males ? As well as tantra, kama sutra and japanese love teachings. These qualities were historically neglected and negated leaving a modern image of male as a sperm can, since there are milliards of men, just a worthless sperm can. Male life has never been regarded as high as female in western societies. Men were recruited by force, sent into battle and slaughtered. Any war is a mass murder on male population, so irrelavant, there are only "xyz women and children dead"in news. But at least as modern sperm cans males could find themselfs a "positive" image. Their inability to give birth lead to total dependence from the female part, which could wrap them around the finger. I think its obvious how fragile men are. Most of them have great inferiority complexes, so they use their full energy to make something "worthful" of themselves, a psychological compensation. Idiotic questions about facts à la "why do so much more men end by suicide ?" shouldn't even be answered, it's too obvious. Any human is a mirror of things which were done to him in his life. Do you think murderers and robbers do this from happy life ? Saddam Hussein for example, everyone marks him as mass murderer, terrorist, criminal etc. but no one ever read his biography. He grew up near Tikrit - a slaughteryard in racial and social issues. He was beaten and humilated daily. Why shouldn't he had given the world all his pain back ? Times haven't changed so far, just terms for same processes. Hell lot of women still think men love to "hunt" females and court for them. Although even little intelligence realises that any man with self respect and education would never "court" in front of somebody. @ all psychology newbies outside: please don't say anything about Freud. His concept of "penis envy" is psychologically proven. Since 80% of his works are still a state secret of the US you can't be sure that he never defined something like "birth envy". Feminists bashed the penis intensivly and with enthusiasm, that's proof enough of their hatred and envy toward's male body.

Mary  Posted: 26/09/2008 15:04

It is so true about our similarities Richy. And truw despite the so called male qualities which are hyped, yet all the love poetry and teaching and literature was by man. I don't knwo that I agree that male life as never regarded as high a female, in this country, certain in the last 10 to 150 years women were regarded as expendable baby making machines and many would argue that that dysfunctional ideology still exists in some parts of the world. It was not so much that men were recruited as cannon fodder - but that POOR men were. Rich men got much softer numbers during war. I don't think total dependance is a postive way to go for any human. Women were finacially dependant on men for years - turning the tables would make society just as dysfunctional. I entirely agree with what you said about fragility and about Saddam. Read about Hitler and Stalin - you will find the same pattern. An adult does to the world what the world did to the child. I had no idea 80% of Freud's work was under lock and key but I am so glad I have found someone who agrees about Freuds unproven kooky theories which were developed based on clinical cases which were by their nature psychological ill people many of women had "hysteria" which has never been seen since or proven. Freud freely admitted that female sexuality was a "dark continent" which proved how little he actually knew "Feminists bashed the penis intensivly and with enthusiasm, that's proof enough of their hatred and envy toward's male body" Oh come on now? Really you cannot be saying this in any sort of a serious way. I and every women I know ar feminist - 2 generations + and we don't envy the male body we quite like to look at it and admire it as men like to look at and admire the female body but we don't have penis envy any more than men have a clitoral or vaginal envy - or indeed birth envy, wich might explain why onstetrics and gynaecology are predominantly male preserves.

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