Who's the father?
It is a wise father that knows his own child, wrote Shakespeare and for most of human existence the issue of paternity has been taken on trust. However, since the advent of DNA testing, fatherhood can now be scientifically confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.
Of course, this can cause as many problems as it resolves, but nevertheless it is thought that children benefit from knowing the truth about their origins, no matter how convoluted they may transpire to be. DNA testing has thrown light on many cases of paternity which led to either disappointment or hurt for at least one person. In the United States an estimated 30% of all fathers who undergo genetic paternity testing discover that they are not the biological father of a child.
28 weeks since conception - but who's the father?
Given the potentially shocking consequences of such a discovery, one might wonder why people pursue DNA testing at all. The human race, after all, existed perfectly well for many centuries without this categorical form of proof of paternity. In a law that dates back to the Romans and was adopted by Britain and Ireland over 500 years ago, a man is the legal father of his wife's child unless he can prove he is sterile or was outside of the country at the time of conception.
This law, which was designed during the Roman Empire to protect children from being disowned if their fathers tired of their mothers, still applies in Ireland, the UK and much of the United States.
In Ireland, the Status of Children Act maintains that children are the offspring of their mother's husband unless it is proved otherwise. But for unmarried parents, there is the need to establish parentage. If an unmarried mother names a man as the father of her child on the birth certificate, she can then attempt to obtain maintenance from him in the family law courts. Equally, a man who suspects that he is the father of a particular child may find that the mother is unwilling to have him involved, especially if she is in an antagonistic relationship with him or is married to someone else.
Until recently, paternity testing was usually performed outside of Ireland. However, it is more available in Ireland now and has been provided at the Blackrock Clinic in Dublin for over 18 months. While the general public can seek a test, most referrals come from family doctors or solicitors. The clinic works to a probability level of 99%, which is accepted by the courts in Ireland and elsewhere as the legal standard of proof. Test results will always go back via a GP or solicitor.
"One of the main reasons for having a medical reference is that the people taking the test might not like the results", explains Dr Irene Nealon who runs the clinic. "I also try to ensure that all parties, or their legal or medical representatives, receive the results at the same time. If I am very concerned about how someone will react to the test results, I will forewarn their GP and ask that they be present".
The clinic offers two forms of paternity testing. Conventional antigenic testing analyses the antigen patterns which are contained in every cell in every human body. Children will have antigen patterns which are similar to both parents. At Blackrock, they are tested for many different antigens. Those antigen patterns which are not present in the mother must have come from the father. It becomes easy to exclude men who cannot physically have been the father, hence antigenic testing is known as an exclusion test.
The clinic also provides full DNA testing, which is used when antigenic testing is not conclusive. In cases where twins or relatives with very similar genetic make-ups are involved, DNA testing may be required to confirm the results of an antigenic test.
DNA is unique to each of us and is inherited equally from both parents, making DNA paternity testing highly accurate.
The most common reason for paternity testing is to resolve disputes over parentage. Perhaps a man denies he is the father of a child, thereby hoping to avoid the responsibility of parenthood and the financial ramifications of paying maintenance. Equally, a man might suspect that the child his partner presents to him as his is actually the biological offspring of someone else. In America, it has recently become a crime for a woman to knowingly tell a man that he is the father of her child if she knows him not to be. In April of this year, the US Supreme Court passed a judgment on so-called cases of 'Paternity fraud'.
"A lot of my cases are people who want to confirm that they are the father of a child of the relationship they are in", says Dr Nealon. "I also see cases where a person has died leaving a large estate and no will. Suddenly lots of people will crawl out of the woodwork, claiming to be the offspring. The test can prove or disprove their claims".
American federal statistics show that around 31% of men who requested a paternity test during the court process of establishing parentage were excluded as the father of the child. In one particular jurisdiction, unmarried fathers were encouraged to submit to a DNA test prior to accepting paternity. As many as 50% of these transpired not to be the biological father. According to the US Men's Health Network, studies in America have revealed that between 14% and 20% of children whose parents are married are not actually the children of their mother's husband.
An American billboard advertisement for paternity testing.
The issue of disputed paternity has become big business. There are literally hundreds of laboratories on the internet offering to provide inexpensive DNA testing worldwide. Some of these labs can help mothers to prove paternity even without the involvement of the alleged father.
All that is needed for a test is some of the individual's cells. If clinically extracted blood or cheek cell swabs are not available, some testing laboratories can get a result from cigarette butts, chewed gum, bloodstained clothing, seminal fluid or semen stains, used condoms, stubble debris from a razor, cotton buds containing earwax or even a single plucked hair.
Demand for the service in Ireland is growing and Dr Nealon now sees around 20 cases each month. Each case can be time consuming, as fathers and mothers are often not on good terms with each other because of the dispute over paternity and must be seen separately.
"I see the fathers in the morning and the mothers and children in the afternoon", says Dr Nealon. "Each consultation lasts an hour, but we do not charge for that. We have a specially trained paediatric nurse to take the blood sample from children and she is wonderful with them. Generally we use blood unless someone has a real problem with needles, in which case we use cells from inside the cheek".
At the consultation stage, Dr Nealon must satisfy the demands of law as well as the needs of her clients. This means that all identifications must be checked and re-checked.
"I act as the legal custodian of the blood", she says. "When the blood is taken from the putative father, I will also take a photograph which I will later verify with the mother. It is not unknown for men to send in a friend to take the test for them".
Whatever the dispute over parentage might be, DNA testing is the only reliable method for obtaining the truth of the matter. DNA, or deoxyriblonucleic acid, is the genetic substance that is contained in every cell of the human body. Every person living or dead, possesses their own unique DNA, except for identical twins, who have the same DNA. Each cell in the human body has 46 chromosomes within, made up of 23 contributed by each parent at the moment of conception.
DNA paternity testing examines long strands of DNA and is accurate, depending on the nature of the sample and the test, to at least 99.9%. In any person, a strand of DNA that did not originate with their mother must have come from their father. If a child's paternity is to be established and the samples tested come from the child and the alleged father, the result will be 99.9% accurate. If the mother is tested also, the reliability of the test rises further. Compared to blood tests, which are notoriously inaccurate, DNA testing provides the truth without a shadow of doubt.
Normally children are not tested until three months after birth in Ireland, but even newborns just a week old can be tested with a cheek swab if necessary.
In family law there is little to challenge the authority of DNA testing. All parties usually accept the findings of a paternity test, knowing its level of accuracy. However, there can often be a dispute over whether a test should be performed. A mother who knows that the test may prove the man not to be the father can be as unwilling to co-operate with a DNA test as a man who is unprepared to accept the responsibility of parenthood.
In order to preserve the tight confidentiality that the law and her clients desire, Dr Nealon performs all testing in her own laboratory, separate from the main Blackrock Clinic lab. The tests are performed to the international standard, which was set down in 1991 by the Society for Forensic Haemogenetics in Cambridge. This standard requires that a laboratory uses another lab as a standard to ensure accuracy. The Blackrock service uses St Batholomew's Hospital in London.
"The whole process is highly confidential," Dr Nealon explains. "All records are kept secure and tests are performed in a separate laboratory. Only one doctor in London and myself will know the test results before we give them out to the doctor or solicitor. It takes three to four weeks from the test date before the results are ready".
Alan Beirne is a spokesman for Parental Equality, the organisation that lobbies for equal parenting rights for fathers, estranged mothers and grandparents. Members of his organisation have often had recourse to paternity DNA testing as a result of disputes over parentage of children.
"There would not be a huge amount of DNA testing in Ireland", he explains. "When a mother requests a DNA test in court it tends to be granted, whereas if a father requests a test it is less likely to be ordered by the court". Parental equality is lobbying for DNA testing to become routine in cases of disputed paternity and would like the State to pick up the bill. The prohibitive cost of proving paternity prevents men in many cases from proving that they are the father of their children. Paternity testing costs on average over £600 at the main Irish centre where it is performed. Sending tests to the UK can cost even more.
"I am amazed at the lack of information about paternity testing in Ireland", says Alan Beirne. "Only in the last two years has the service been available in this country. Previously, people had to order testing kits from Britain and send away for the results. It took some time and the cost was prohibitive for many people".
Today, paternity testing has become a growth industry in America, as home testing kits by mail order for a few hundred dollars are within the price range of most fathers. A simple cheek swab means that cells can be extracted from a very young child without causing them the pain and upset of an injection. The answer, which is admissible as evidence in court, comes by post a few weeks later.
There is still the problem that the cost of the test is prohibitive for some people who might desire it.
"Parental Equality has been pushing for the State to provide the service", says Mr Beirne. "We believe that if a court orders a paternity test on a child, it should go ahead as soon as possible and not be postponed indefinitely until the money is available to pay for it".
Of course, the cost of a paternity test is small when considered next to the cost of raising a child. But for every case of a man relieved to discover that he is not the father, there is also a man who is shocked to hear confirmation that he is.
"If an individual turns out not to be the father of a particular child it can have enormous effects, financially and emotionally", says Alan Beirne. "I know of one man who was absolutely devastated to discover that he was not the father of a child".
Today, paternity testing puts an end of the uncertainty over parentage that Shakespeare alluded to. But it also marks a new beginning for many people. Some people are forced to come to terms with becoming an instant dad, while others must face the consequences of knowing that the child they thought was theirs is not, at least genetically. In such cases, counselling is often required for everyone involved.
Is it possible to check the paternity of an unborn baby? If so, how long into the pregnancy can this be done?
Paternity testing CAN be done on an unborn child in the third trimester, but it is an invasive procedure that requires the mother's consent and is certainly not available in Ireland. Even in America, it would very rarely be practiced. The earliest a child is normally tested here is around the age of three months old, as blood needs to be taken for accurate testing results. There is a test that can be done on even younger children, involving buccal swabs and cheek cells, but generally there'd need to be a very good reason for such a rush. Short of forcing the pregnant mother to go to America, you will simply have to wait until the child is three months old.
can it be done on a 6 year old child please could you give me a telephone number and e-mail email@example.com Thanking you
What happens if a child wants the test? Can this test be done at the behest of one party only ie. the child, perhaps supplying a hair sample of the parent in question?
On the question of testing on the unborn child. Testing can be done at the time of birth using sample from the umbilical cord. You would want to check with your maternity hospital as it is possible that not all hospitals will carry out this procedure at the time of birth in a busy maternity hospital particularly I would imagine if you are a public patient.
What information can you give on the testing of an infant (who died) for the presence or absence of Down's Syndrome? Some kind of sample(s) was/were taken for analysis. I have no information to say whether it was or was not obvious from the physical characteristics of the infant that died, that it did or did not have Down's Syndrome. Also, if a mother has been severely disabled through a childhood accident, does this make it more likely she can give birth to an infant with Down's Syndrome? Can you tell me something about the incidence rate for infants born with Down's Syndrome in populations?
if a child was allegedly conceived on the 4th of a month and intercourse with another man took place 21 days later, is the gap too big to warrant a test?
I have been the victim of being named on a birth cert without my concent and even with a DNA test and a court order the registrar of births will not remove my name from the cert unless the mother gives her permission to remove my name from the document. The court is powerless to force the issue and the mother keeps trying still to force the child on me.
MY PERIODS WERE ALWAYS EVERY 28-30 DAYS. I HAD SEX ON DAY 14 AND DAY 28 AND GOT PREGNANT.I HAD A BLOOD TEST DONE WITH THE PERSON I HAD SEX WITH ON DAY 14 AND THE RESULTS CAME BACK THAT HE WAS NOT THE FATHER.COULD THIS RESULT BE WRONG?I WENT TO THE BLACKROCK CLINIC TO GET IT DONE
To second last anonymous - the registrar is obliged to comply with the court order. If they continue not to do so, take the issue up with the Senior Registrar's office, or the office of the minister for Health, under whose department the births Marriages and Deaths Register falls. This woman cannot force the child on you if you have a DNA test that shows the child is not related to you. To last anonymous - there is always a chance that a DNA test could be wrong but it really slender, one chance in millions, usually. One has to ask if you had slept with anyone else at any time during that period? If you absolutely did not, is there any possibility that you could have come in contact with sperm some way other than full intercourse? If not, check with the clinic what test was done - was it an antigen test or a DNA test? If you only had an antigen test performed, perhaps you should seek a DNA test which is even more conclusive. Bear in mind that wirth the current test results, the man you slept with on the 14th is not the child's father in the eyes of the law, and you will not be able to seek maintenance from him as things stand.
Is it possible to have a paternity test without the consent of the Mother?
To Anonymous 04/07/01 11.59 because of legal constraints it is vital that the mother consents to the test because in the event that you are not the father you could be guilty of causing an assault on the child, also it would be very difficult to get a doctor to take a sample for testing and then to send it away for analysis.
other than the Blackrock clinic does anyone know anywhere in ireland that does paternity tests?
is it possible to have a paternity test in Ireland without the mothers consent
How much does it cost for a paternity test in Ireland.
I had sex with 2 men,the first man I slept with twice during and at the end of my period. The other man ten days later. Now I am pregnant. Who is the most likely father of my child?
Confidential paternity testing using mouth swabs is also available in Ireland from the Cytogenetics Unit - see http://www.paternityireland.com
where can i get the tests that are available on the internet that don't require the presence of the father?
I do not recommend that you attempt to carry out any form of paternity testing without the full, informed consent of both the mother and the alleged father (and child if over 18 years). To take any sort of sample from any of the parties secretly for testing is legally questionable and most reputable DNA testing services would not accept samples without informed consent.
If (as you report from various US studies), between 14 and 50% of "fathers" are not THE father (on DNA testing), it would explain a great deal about so-called male “irresponsibility". It would also prove that "irresponsible" men are actually not responsible (for a particular child). But why does this matter? Well, it matters because the notion of feckless men has been used so successfully by feminists to deride men in general and to undermine the whole notion of fatherhood especially - with devastating consequences for many men and their children. And does it not in fact reveal a staggering degree of female "irresponsibility" and duplicity? Perhaps most importantly, these figures illustrate the disgraceful bias against men in that DNA paternity testing cannot be undertaken without the consent of the mother. Is that not almost the same as saying that alcohol levels cannot be measured in a drunk driver without her consent? Given the recent real advances of women in society, is it not time that a crucial blow (i.e. the free availability of [sensitive] DNA testing) be struck in the name of male emancipation, fairness and genuine “equal opportunity”?
I think that the difficulty about paternity testing without the consent of the mother is that if the '"alleged father" proves not to be the biogical father of the child, then he did not have the right to authorise the taking of a sample from that child without the informed consent of its definite and undisputed parent - its mother.
cellmark http://www.cellmark.co.uk/ have a list of accredited doctors in Ireland that will take samples for testing.
Well said to that last poster, these dreadful masculinists, the next thing you know they'll be burning their boxers!
Paternity testing using mouth swabs can be arranged through http://paternityireland.com
My mother has two sisters and a brother, their father was very old when my mother and her younger sister was born and they both look very different to their older sister and brother. On top of that many people around the country side have said to my mother and her sister that their mother (my gran) had an affair with a man for years and he was their father. Their father and the man who my gran supposedly had the affair with are long long dead. My gran is still living, but my mother will only investigate things after she dies. Shes desperate to know can they establish her and her sisters paternity with their older brother and sister? I would be very grateful if you would answer my query. Thankyou.
It would be very straightforward if it was possible to get, with consent, a sample from your grandmother. In the absence of a sample from her, it is still feasible but there is a possibility that the results might not be absolutely definitive.
I am just three months pregnant, my boyfriend (now ex) refuses to believe that he is the father of this child im carrying. He has stopped all contact with me and says he will refuse to have a paternity test done when the baby is born! What can I do.......
Sorry to hear of your problem. The only way that he can be directed to give a mouth swab sample for DNA paternity testing is by Court Order. You should talk to a solicitor. Best wishes.
To the lady who finds herself 3 months gone and the boyfriend has done a runner - My heart goes out to you! The same thing happened to me. You should contact "Treoir" - they are in the Dublin phone book - they were a fantastic help to me when I found myself in the same situation. I applied for a maintenance order through the family court, and as my ex disputed paternity, he was ordered to take the test by the courts - the courts don't muck about with these issues, they will order the test done - and he had to pay for the testing! If he refuses to take the test, he will lose by default as the judge has to assume that he is denying responsibility in order to avoid supporting this child. An innocent man would have nothing to hide and would take the test! Also, if the test proved that the man was innocent, YOU would have to pay for the testing. Try not to worry, it will all work out - my daughter is now nearly seven years old and is the light of my life. She has never met her father, even after DNA testing proved paternity - that was his choice - and his loss. Good Luck.
The person who wrote on the 20th of August said: "An innocent man would have nothing to hide and would take the [Paternity] test!" Surely the same logic could be applied to women who refuse to let their male partners arrange a paternity test.i.e. if they refuse to arrange for the [paternity] test, they must have something to hide. Or is it a case of double-standards?
It has been pointed out in this discussion that "because of legal constraints it is vital that the mother consents to the test because in the event that you are not the father you could be guilty of causing an assault on the child, also it would be very difficult to get a doctor to take a sample for testing and then to send it away for analysis." Applying the same logic, if it turns out the man isn't the father, could the woman be charged with extracting money under false pretences (or whatever the legal term is) (from a man who isn't the father)!? Surely the law should be changed so this happens less so that if a woman is claiming a particular man is a father, he should have the right to find out whether he is or not (if he so desires). It seems to be hard for many women to see men's side in this; I think an analogous situation is to look at when there has been a mix up in tagging in a hospital and a woman isn't 100% sure whether she has her baby - there's a huge furore whenever this happens and DNA tests are quickly arranged because they don't want to leave the woman with the "wrong" baby; however there seems to be less of a problem leaving a man with the "wrong" baby. Equality!?
And in the case of where there's been a possible mix up of tagging of babies and a woman wants to know whether the baby is hers and asks for a DNA test, if it turns out the baby isn't hers, I doubt she'd be prosecuted for assault the way supposedly a man could be if he arranges a paternity test and it turns out he's not a father. Double-standards!?
To the person who wrote "Surely the same logic could be applied to women who refuse to let their male partners arrange a paternity test.i.e. if they refuse to arrange for the [paternity] test, they must have something to hide" I am the person who wrote the original message you were querying and yes, women who refuse to allow their babies to be tested would, it seem, also have something to hide - I get your point about double standards - and you might be surprised to find that I actually agree with you!
Is there a way of doing a paternity test on my ex-husband without him knowing?
No, he would have to know as the testers would need a sample of his DNA - blood, or cheek swap most likely! However, if he is denying paternity you can apply to the courts for a Declaration of Parentage and if he still denies paternity and disputes it in Court the Court will order DNA testing and he will have to comply.
My mother and father are both dead, but my mother is supposed to have had an affair with another man who never married and who's supposed to be my father, but he's also dead, his brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews are alive. Can i prove his paternity through them. Some of them have already said they would submit DNA. What would be required ?
If the fathers name is on the birth cert, and he then wants a Paternity test and the mother wont give it, who can he go to to make her give the test.? We have tried to contact loads of places but none offered any help.
Could you give me some information on DNA testing in ireland? Procedures, costs etc with only a child and father
DNA paternity testing with only a child and a father is available in Ireland using simple mouth swab samples (www.paternityireland.com). However, if the child is under 18 years of age, it is essential that the child's mother gives written consent to the sample being taken from the child and used in the test.
Can you get a court summons to bring the mother to court if she detests the DNA, if the child is under 18?
My son's biological father has denied paternity, he is now in America. Can I get blood tests done even though he is not in Ireland. He said he will co operate but has no money, so who has to pay for this?
Yes, this can be done quite easily. If you contact www.paternityireland.com they will arrange for a mouth swab to be taken by a doctor in the USA and sent directly to them. This must be accompanied by two photographs of the alleged father signed by the doctor together with a signed declaration from the doctor saying that this is the man from whom he collected the sample. They will then arrange an appointment with you to collect mouth swabs from yourself and your son. A DNA analysis will then be carried out on all 3 samples. Copies of the reports will be sent to both adult parties about 2 weeks later and will either exclude paternity 100% or prove it with a certainty of 99.999%.
I think there needs to be a serious discussion about whether a man should have the right to do a paternity test without the permission of the mother i.e. the doctors should facilitate the testing. If he has to ask the mother's permission, it means he may be putting the whole relationship in jeopardy because of the acrimony such a request can bring about (especially if he has to go to court) so even if he does turn out to be the father, the mother may not want anything to do with him (except take money off him) and the child may lose a father. But if he could have just had the test, and it turned out he was the father, the relationship wouldn't have been harmed. It smacks of double standards the way mothers and fathers are treated in this.
I agree with the above, my brother's ex-girlfriend wont agree to the paternity test. Now it has to go to court and either way she will not allow him or my family see the baby. The mother of the child should not have the choice on the paternity test. The fathers cannont move on until paternity is confirmed. Its a year later and we are still no closer to having a test done.
Can the father get have a paternity test done without the mothers permission, if not can she be forced into giving her permission?
Last month I went down to a laboratory in Limerick, the staff were lovely and professional. We were seen really quickly and even though I don\'t talk to the father, the situation was dealt with extremely well and not once did I feel uncomfortable. I would recommend it to anyone. The bonus is that it only cost 300, which compared to other places I looked at is cheap and 99% accurate and I thought it would be awful but it was great. Also I heard that they\'ll send stuff out to your GP to do it, which is dead handy, even though it\'s no trouble to get to Limerick these days.
No, the father cannot getthe test done without the mohters consent nor can he force the mother into giving consent becuase if heis not in fact the childs father, this would constitute assault /violation of the child.
i recently had a dna test done in Galway. They are lovely and very helpful. They dont look down on u. I personally think whoever has to get it done is very brave. alot of women pretend the father of the child is whoever they might be going out with r even married 2. At least this way its all sorted without much upset to the child. To anyone who is in the situation to have to get a dna test done. dont be scared. just do it and u will be much happier for it, It cost me 925euro. the results only took approx 2 wks.
5 years pass and nothing said that i was a dad "the person knew where i lived"then 3 weeks ago this person says she wants money if she does not get it she is demanding a DNA test can she do this she also sent me photos.
Only the court can compell you to have a DNA test.
Hi Anonymous - I appreciate this must have come as a huge shock to you and I can sympathise with your predicament that you genuinely didn't know about this child. But, if this woman does go to court to seek maintenance from you for this child, and you deny paternity, the court will order the testing done anyway, and things will go a lot harder for you in court if the child is proved to be yours after you deny it. If I was you I would take the test now. Its the only way to be sure. Good luck.
Can I get a Paternity test done without my girlfriends consent if we have signed the guardianship agreement??
What if you hadnt slept with anyone else and the DNA result came back neagtive.Can that be correct?
You mean in the case where you gave birth, having slept with only one man and he was DNA tested and the test came back negative?
Ref 15/11/04. My boyfriend got a DNA test done for an ex of his and it came back negative.When he went to court the judge didnt except the result as she claimed that she wasnt with anyone else in her life so now we have to go through it all again. Is there any possibilty that the test could be wrong?
Statistically, to my knowledge, there is about a one in two million chance of a dna test being wrong
Yes this is what a girl said against my boyfriend that he was the only one
Sorry for posting this again but has anyone got an answer for me? I posted this ages ago and asked around and no one seems to know the answer, Can I get a Paternity test done without my girlfriends knowing if we have signed the guardianship agreement and I am a legal Guardian??
If you are named as the father on the birth cert and have dual custody, then yes. Otherwise, you should see your solicitor first.
For accuracy purposes, its preferable to have DNA samples from both parents, to compare against the DNA of the child. A DNA test with just one parent is not as reliable.
RE: above query about the paternity test if your name is on the birt cert. There seems to be nobody out there that can help with this one. I have the same problem & I have gone to solicitors & all the advice centres & i still havnt got a DNA test 1 year later. There seems to be no way of getting a test unless the mother consents to the test. If anyone knows how to go about this please let me know.?
If father of my baby doesn\'t want to do a D.N.A test and I live in another country ,I can\'t go to Court ;what do I need to do?
An order fro a peternity test in one jurisdiction may not have any power in another.
Regarding CONSENT: The law states that consent to take a blood sample from a minor (under 18) must be give by the LEGAL GUARDIAN of the child in question. The mother is the sole guardian of the child if she is unmarried. Married couples automatically have joint guardianship of each child that is a product of the marriage. Otherwise a court granted dual guardianship may be obtained through the legal system in ireland for unmarried partners. For further information on this subject, contact your local Citizens Information Bureau or Barringtons Laboratories.
Surely if sn unmarried father is on a birth cert then he is also the legal father and has dual guardianship?
Not necessarily, occasionally a mother may put the alleged father on the birth certificate, and the paternity test will come back negative. The man who is not the father but is on the birth certificate does not have guardianship rights, hence the reason why UNMARRIED mothers have sole guardianship until such a time as she chooses to get married.
But of the paternity test comes back negative, surely his name must be removed from the birth cert as he's not actually the father and thus has no responsibility towards a child who is not his
More than likely, it will be removed. Should he wish to be a guardian to the child anyway, he must apply for guardianship.
"The law states that consent to take a blood sample from a minor (under 18) must be give by the LEGAL GUARDIAN of the child in question" - I find this very strange as I gave blood sample (with my own complete consent) for a blood cholesterol test (as high cholesterol runs in my family) before going on the pill at 15. My parents were NOT aware of this.
This only applies to certain tests, the results of which may be regarded as sensitive, such as DNA testing, HIV testing etc. A doctors letter for a routine test usually suffices. It is accepted that a 15 year old would usually be accompanied by a guardian when attending a doctors appointment, but there may be exceptions to uphold confidentiality between doctor and patient, as in your case.
Thanks for the clarification Lucy. Does this also apply to teenage children below the age of 18 who request a DNA test for paternity.
One thing is confusing me about the questions here. How did an unmarried father's name get on the birth cert anyway? The only LEGAL way an unmarried father's name could be on a birth cert is if he has signed a Statutory Declaration declaring himself the father (and any guy who signs one while unsure of the facts is mad!) , or else the mother has obtained a court order naming him as father, such as an order for maintenance or a Declaration of Parentage. There is no other way - of course, in the case of married people, the assumption of paternity is made and a HUSBAND'S name can be entered, but not an UNMARRIED father's name?
In fact - under Irish law. The father of a child is assumed to be the man to whom the mother is married at the time.
Yes thats true in the case of married couples. But not in the case of unmarried couples. How did an unmarried guy's name get on the birth certificate unless he signed a statutory declaration authorising his name be placed on the register of births? (thereby declaring himself the child's father in the eyes of the law) If the mother had sought a court order for maintenance, you have to presume that a guy who didn't believe he was the father would defend himself against liability for maintenance in the family courts - where the issue of paternity would be dealt with before the maintenance order granted.
Most men will believe the mother unless he is give reason not to, i.e infidelity, and will sign the birth certificate accordingly. It is only when questions are raised about paternity that these men find it necessary to have the test done, having already declared themselves the father. Under Irish Law, yes the husband is assumed to be the father, and will have guardianship rights. If he is found not to be the father he may choose to have his name removed from the birth cert or he may continue being a father to the child and remain on the birth cert, with the consent of the mother. With teenagers, do you mean a teen mother under 18, or a child under 18 questioning his or her own parentage?
I meant, the child under 18 questioning his paternity.
The logical thing would be to combine guardianship rights for unmarried fathers with the signing of the statutory declaration for the birth registration, that way an unmarried father would have the right to consent on behalf of the child to DNA testing if doubts were raised later on. Currently, guardianship (and the rights that go with it) can only be gained by an unmarried father with either the consent of the mother or by applying to the family law courts. However, that still would not remove the problem that if the alleged father proved NOT to be the father, the taking of the blood / dna samples would be considered an assault upon the child! Its a catch 22 situation!
Just for your info, once an unmarried man puts his name on a child's birth certificate, it can only be tken off if another name will be put in it's place. That's the law in Ireland at the moment. Even if he proves he is not the father by DNA testing he still cannot get his name removed from the certificate until the mother is willing to put another man's name in his place.The law says you cannot take a man's name off and leave it saying nothing in his place.
I would imagine a child under 18 would be able to get his own mother to consent to his blood taking for the purposes of a paternity investigation. Should he not want her involved, he may be able to seek legal aid and have a solicitor act on his behalf. I will say that I am only speculating on this one but I will find out exactly. Don't forget your local CITIZENS INFORMATION CENTRE will give you all the advice and legal information you require regarding any subject and your associated rights.
Frankly I don't understand how that could be. If it is scientificly proven that a man is not the father of a child why should his name and all the burden of responsibility that goes with it remain in the birth cert? Surely there should be a legal challenge to this. In the Eurpean court of human rights if nowhere else. As to no other name going on the birth cert in it's place. That is a legal nonse and there are births registered eveery day of the week in this country with 'father unknown' - regardles of whether or not he is, in fact, known.
If you are not named on a Birth Cert but you think you are the father can you make a person have the tests even if she has stated she will not agree to having the test done and wants nothing from you except to be left alone to raise her child
Anon: The simple answer is no. Not without a court order and seeing as you are not on the birth cert and the mother o the child has made no demand of you, this would be extremely difficult (not to mention a long drawn out and possibly) expensive process.
So it is not impossible to get a test if the Mother says no just unlihgtly a court would allow you and very expensive has anyone tried this or is it just not worth the hastle
No, not impossible. Just extremely unlikely, long drawn out and as you say possibly expensive. You need to have a lot of time, money and patience. And should the test be ordered by the court and performed and the results be in favour, it is unlikely at that point that you'll be granted access to the child if the process has taken several several years as you would not already have formed a relationship with the child and potential custody battles would not be thought be beneficial to the childs welfare.
is it possible to get the babys grandparents to have the DNA test and if so how accurate would it be?
Hazel - it would depend on what you were trying to prove.
is there any simple way of getting the slightest indication that you are a childs parent. same blood types etc...? i am the father of a 15 yr old child and have always had a slight doubht as to he being my son. i have an ok relationship with his mother and dont want to upset this by seeking paternity tests.
If you are married to the childs mother - then undr Irish law, the father of a child is assumed to be the man to whom the mother is marred. If you are not married to her, but you are named on the birth cert then a blood test, organised by you could not be considered assualt on the child. If you are noit named and do not have the mothers agreement, thne you will have to wait until the child is 18 - when they can request the test themselves.
if the father is not available for the testing what is the accuracy of the grandparents taking the test to show theres a dna connection
My husband is not the father of my child and we are living apart. But because he is my husband he was presumed to be hre father and in the hospital my daughter was registered in his name. He knows she isn't his but he won't voluntarily give up his guardianship. I want her to have my surname on her birth cert and to have sole guardianship or put her in her real father's guardianship. I have my DNA test results but without my husband's consent, as he won't agree to it, what can I do? Who do I turn to to get it sorted out? The Register of Births say I have to produce an affidavit from my husband as well as the DNA test results and he won't do it... Help!
Provided you did not change your name to your husbands when you married, you can have either your surname or your husbands surname on your daughters birth cert.
Well I didn't change my name but the cert was already issued with her in his name so how do I change it retrospectively?
I think you will need to go court to produce the DNA evidence of te birht fathers paternity and a sworn affidavit from the birth father claiming his paternity - altho' the birth fathers presence in court would of course carry far moe weight. That way your solicitor could advise your ex-husbands (or his solicitor) that your daughters paternity was being challenged.
Hmm its not easy is it. Her actual father lives abroad. So would the advice be, to get a DNA result from her actual father (which we don't mind doing as both of us are absolutely certain of the relationship) and have him seek to have himself put on the cert. How do I go about going to the courts... solicitors very expensive and as nobody pays me any maintenance it's not easy keeping me and my daughter fed, clothed etc off my income (which probably is still too high to qualify for legal aid either though.) I guess any steps though are positive ones. Good luck to all the others out there struggling with such issues.
Go tro the citizens advice bureau about legal aid and also about advice re mmaintenance. It's interesting that your ex-husband is refusing to relinquish paternity rights but at the same time refusing to take up the paternity responsibility of paying maintenance for the child. I would also question why the childs birth father is also not paying maintence towards a child that both you and he know to be his. His living abroad should not be a barier to maintenance payments for the child if he is willing to make them.
My daughter received a solicitors letter recently from some she had sex with one night a few days after she broke up with her boyfriend. When he found out she was pregnant he asked could the baby be his and she told him no as she had already asked this of her Doctor and according to her dates he said it could not be. She had heard nothing until this letter from him for several months even though he had passed the odd comment when the baby was born she ignored it. This letter is causing major upset for her and us as her parents. I have read that he cant make her get the test done if she does not want to, but she also needs him to stop harassing her and to get him out of her life. Should we get a solicitor to ensure he does not contact her anymore and to reply to the letter she has received. What should we do?
She should keep in mind that the odd comment is not harassment and pass the letter onto her solicitor.
Dear Anonymous re: Your daughter; I admit I am no expert and no solicitor and no psychologist so my advice is purely personal opinion. However it might reassure you a little. The test can be done cheaply and discreetly by asking your GP to get a DNA test through Barrington's Hospital (a private hospital in Limerick city). The Hospital will send a simple test kit to the GP who simply takes a small blood sample (literally a prick on the finger or heel in the baby's case) and posts the lot off to the Hospital. Both adults will recieve seperate result letters to say yes or no to the contested paternity. Personally I believe the test is a good idea as you will then know and have closure for all of your sakes and you can deal with the truth of the situation. In my own case only when the truth was known despite its being very hard to handle, at least there is no more doubt or worry. Good luck anyway
how long tdoes it take to get the the two different types of test done and how much do they cost and where can they be done
Dear Anon, does the GP not have to have a blood sample from the father as well as the mother in order to establish paternity.
Hey John; Barrington's in Limerick offer the blood test which is 99%+ accurate at 300. You can walk in and get it done there for just the 300. They don't accept credit cards though. You can get your GP to do the test and send the results to Barrington's as I outlined above. This costs you the 300 plus a GP visit. (I would advise you to call your GP in advance, explain what you are looking for, and ensure they get the test kit before you go down. Not all GPs are used to doing this test as its quite new in Ireland. But it *is* very straightforward and if you just explain what you want over the phone and ask them to contact Barrington's Hospital who will post them everything they need, then you can go back when the test kit arrives. You must use the official test kit as the blood samples - just a drop each - must be signed by each person to say that they agree that it really is their blood. By the way you pay your GP the full amount and they pass on the 300 to Barrington's.) The Blackrock Clinic also do this test as well as cheek swab tests I think the results are equally valid I understand but their costs are over 1,000 and you get the exact same test result. I would say the Blackrock clinic were extremely courteous and all but I found it more convenient and less embarrassing just to go to my normal GP. You can also find information on GPs who are used to doing this test at the Treoir website. I would advise you to check what they are charging though before booking yourself in as prices vary considerably as you will see from the above. Finally it is also possibel for GPs to get samples analysed by labs in the UK and in the event of parents living in seperate countries I believe these UK labs can offer testing where the two parties do not have to attend together. But I don;t have much details as I opted for the Barrington's myself and was very satisfied by the service.(Though I woud say they don't offer counselling, which you might want if you are upset, this isn't necessary of course but I admit I found it stressful enough.) I hope this information is helpful. Kind regards M
if the father is refusing to pay maintenance and is refusing paternity test and has recently moved abroad, his parents are refusing to give a contact address or number, legally can they be forced through the courts to either give the contact information or take the grandparentage test themselves? please could someone help.
Is the father married to the mother? In that case he can be compelled thru the courts to pat child support. If not, but he iu still naes on the birht cert, the onus is on him to disprove paternity. If he is not named on the birth cert, then you have very litle hope of getting the courts to compel him as he is abroad. Also hia parents, legally would eb no relation and therefore canot be subpoaned. I'd sayu get yourself a very good family law solicitor and be prepared to spend a lot of time and possibly money on this one.
well i think the whole system is a joke. there are too many kids out there with incomplete identities. the least both parents owe a child is the dignity of knowing who both their biological parents are and my opinion is that there should be a law that both parents names be recorded on the childs birth cert,married or not and if a guy is denying to be the father and discontinues contact and cannot be located then if the mother is 100% sure hes the father she should be allowed record the details, for the childs sake. if in the future he has a problem with this then let him voluntarily challenge it and take a paternity test where the mother should have no choice but let him because she would hav recorded him as the father and there should be penalties if she records wrong details,that would give our kids some dignity when they need to take their birth certs to school for communion,confirmation purposes etc, where it says 'fathers details not recorded' may make a child feel like their mum doesnt know who their dad is and make the mother feel like a slut. its all too easy for so many guys to walk away from these kids, its very unfair. after all they are 50% responsible in the making of them so why, in a so called time of equal rights are there so many kids out there with their fathers details unrecorded on their birth certs. it should be law, if it were then my opinion is that these men would be much more careful with their sperm donation when theyd know their pay packets could be dramatically reduced at the end of each week. plus it would save the state a lot of money. does anyone out there agree with me?
Anon for 00.09 - I agree with ou in part. But in sa=ome cases the mother does not ant the father's detials recorded (for whatever sh does not want him to have contact with the child) and simple sayas that the father is unkown when the time comes. How do you propose to enforce paternal recording in these circumstances. And believe they are very real cicumstances - in every maternity hospital acsross the country.
Hello, i am the father of a 15 year old boy. I am not married to his mother and never was. I pay 280 a month in maintenance and am struggleing to keep it up! His mother has since married. I find it hard to pay the maintenance when i see how good a life style his mother leads...house, car , boat...etc! while i struggle to get by every month. On the court order it says i pay until he is 16. Can she then apply for another court order? I cannot even consider buying a house or car as i cant afford it. Would the courts take all this into account?
yeah i agree with you that there are women who do not want to record the dads name and i think that is very wrong too, i think EVERY child should have a legal right to know who there dad is and this should be recorded at birth. i recently had a baby and i most definitely know who the dad is but because he doesnt want to know and has moved away i cannot record him as the dad because he wont sign birth cert so my childs birth cert has no fathers details recorded so i may as well not know who the father is because thats what it looks like.we should be allowed give these details pending fathers signature. but i also sympathise with good guys who would love the chance to acknowledge and see their child and the mother wont let them, i think that is selfish and childish and not in the childs best interest.in saying that there are a small percentage of dads who would not be a good influence in their childs life but that child still deserves to be aware who their dad is and in those circumstances it should be up to the courts to decide if he has access not the mothers decision. if it were legalised to record these details it would be in alls best interest and in cases where the mum says she doesnt know the dad well shed soon get her memory back if she werent getting paid for the child until she did record details.but in saying that there probably genuinely are women who dont know the dad so in that case i dunno, maybe they would be more careful if it were legalised, maybe not. but for all three sides it couldnt be any worse or more complicated than it is at the moment. whats your view on that?
Well Anon, if the mpother knew she wouldn't et her money untiul she put donwn the fathersname thne she could well pout dow any name without the man's consent and that's not right either. IT WOULD THEN BE UP TO HIM TO DISPROVE (LONG and expensive process. he wrong name on a childs birth cert would be even worse than no name. Brian, the bot's mother can e-apply for a court order when he is 16 and will more tan likely get it until hes in 18 if he's still at school. It may be extended to 21 or 23 then if she is supporting him in college or further education.
well if his signature was pending then he wouldnt have to disprove anything and if the mother has named him as the father and he doesnt think he is then she should have to pay to prove hes the dad not him. i just think that every child should know who their father is, we only have one biological mum and dad. Its not a matter of money or maintenance its a matter of a child being deprived of his or her full identity. I dont want to enter into an argument about it ,im just giving my opinion. i have to rear a child where the dad doesnt give a crap and i cant record his details. im a single parent and im all the child has got, and rearing a child is not easy. i think the very least he owes his own flesh and blood is the dignity of a name on her birth cert. Making a baby takes two but he, along with a lot others, seem to think its easy and they should not even take the tiniest bit of responsibility. The saying "its a mans world" springs to mind.
Oh ys, of course a child is entitled to his full geneic identity. I'm just puttign forward the legal roafblocks one would encounter, and have to overcome in proposing that. If a mans name was pending and a woman wished to prove that he as the father, she would ned him to provide a DNA sample - which he could not be compelled to do as under law (and the law is very black and white) he is no legal relation to her or the child.
He can be compelled to take test if a maintenance order is requested by the mother but she needs an address to have it issued on him even if he is abroad and it would then be up to him to either pay or disprove paternity. Can be expensive but only costs about e300 to have done in limerick. I dont know but i just think the legal system needs be updated somehow to make this a little easier and more dignified for all involved- father,mother and child. i read somewhere recently of one country who has brought in a law where the dads name must be on the childs birth cert, i dont know how theyre enforcing it but it sounds good to me. Cant even remember what country it was but as far as i know i think twas an eu country. i will research it and find out. If anyones interested i will post it on this site.
To anon 14:35 - yes please do post further info ans I would be very interested to hear of legal roadblocks removed. The potential father can only be compelled to take the test by court order (provided he's not named on the birth cert or married to the mother) and these can be very unenforible if he's outside the country jurisdiction.
It can be expensive, i know a few companies are charging upto 600 for a dna paternity test. However, i found a company The Paternity Company in dublin, ireland that charge 295 for a standard paternity test. I also noticed that they are accredited, which can add to peace of mind!!
I live in the uk...Recently I contacted who I thought was my biological father after 21 years. I sent him a letter and eventually i received a letter from his solicitors saying he is not my father and wants no other contact with me. 21/22 years ago my mam had a 4 year relationship with this man but and all this time i have been led to beleive that he was my bilogical father and my mam still say even to this day that he is. As you can imagine this letter i received from the my father really shocked me now I want to request a DNA test from him to confirm what he says is true. I feel that he would respond by declining my request so i am looking at any one who would be able to give me advice guidance would be very much appreciated. I need to know who my real dad for medical/hereditory/self identity reasons. I dont know where i stand legally and if i can make him take this test because i doubt he would agree to it?? and solicitors cost a fortune. i feel that i have been lied all this time i need to know the truth..can any one help?
Lucy, you really need to get yoursel agood internaitonal family law solicitor
yes thats what i thought im going to seek advice from solicitors to see how i can make him take the test Legally..just wondered if this could be possible thats all..thanks
Becuase he is inb another legal jursdiction, and according to the law, unless he himself admits it or his name is on your birth cert, then he is leally a stranger and the law cannot compell him to take the test. Any more than the law could compel a total strnager in the street to take the test. I wish you the best of luck.
lucy my heart goes out to you and your mum. I recently had a baby and the father left the country and is denying hes the dad. i dont have an address for him at the moment but when i do (IM DETERMINED TO FIND HIM) i can seek maintenance and if he refuses then the courts can compel him to take the test, i cannot.But as your over 18 i dont know what can be done, maybe if your still in education you could do something. Or maybe you could try the citizens advice before spending money on lawyers. I think its an absolute disgrace how these lowlifes are let away with disowning their kids, i too think that my child has a right to at least know the medical history (as breast cancer and many other diseases can be hereditory) and as you said its a self identity issue in a childs mental, moral and social development, then let them stick their money where the sun don't shine and go hibernate to whatever cowardly corner of the world that the want. I think the government should wake up to these dead-beat dads. I would be intrested in hearing how you get on Lucy so keep me posted if you wish. And the very best of luck and i do mean that.
Thank you i have an appointment with free advice solicitors on Monday to see where i stand surely there must be something i can do..? yea i think you are right in me getting citizens advice.. i will need to make an appoint. soon as they always are busy!!...have you put a clain in for CSA?? because i know you can only claim monies from the date your you put your claim in so the longer the father hides the more money he has to pay if you know his name and dob..or any previous addreses..or any info on him at home i.e family members so that the CSA can contact them to try and locate where he is.. do u know what country he has ran off to???
Lucy, as you are over 18, it is unlikely, I think, that you will be able to claim any monies from your father unless you are still full time education. Also can you tell me - what does CSA stand for?
child support agency.. i dont want mony from him i want him to take a DNA Test to confirm wether or not he is my biological father..and if i have any legal rights to request this!!! because he is claiming now that he is not and my mam has said that he is!!!..that is my issue!
Hi lucy, me again. I think hes in an e.u country but his family are refusing to co-operate. I hadnt heard of c.s.a so thanks a mill for that. I don't want any money from him for the child either but if he will not take the paternity test then it's the only option i'm left with to prove that he's her father. When i read your piece i had a vision of my child at 21 seeking her identity so i'm determined to settle this when the child is young. Your poor mum too, she probably feels very hurt by his denial. Theres always the option of hiring a private detective, might take a while to save but will be worth every last cent. Keep me posted Lucy, as i will you and thanks for that.
Lucy, it seems you are in a catch 22 situation. We have an extradition agreement with Britain for crimoinal matrers but your case is a civil matter. Also the counrts cannot requst a paternity test from someone who is, by law, a stranger. In order to make him take the test, you would need proof but you cannot get proof without the test - hence the catch 22 situation.
My ex in Japan (Japanese girl)ntacted me a few weeks ago to tell me that she was 5 months pregnant but had been seeing another guy as well at the time of conception so there is a 50/50 chance the baby is mine. He has no idea the paternity is in doubt and they have moved in together. Will there be difficulties in my conducting the test from dublin and sending the results to Japan? She is willing to have the test but unwilling to tell him if he is not the father.What are my legal rights here?
Under Irish law, to be honest, it wuold appear that you have very few rights unless you are either married to the mother of the child or named on the birth cert. I'm not sure about japanese law tho', as that is most probably where the child will be born.
Hi lucy, how did you get on with the solicitor?
Hello every 1, thank you for takin an interest it means alot..do feel that i am in a no win situation..and do feel that i dont know where i come from if you know what i mean..yea i dont think parents realise how much of an impact decisions made can effect people in later life...like me!!!the Child Support Agency ( CSA) they should have info on taking paternit test and info on that... i have got an appointment with solicitors this thursday after 4pm for some advice..so hopfully i will get to know where I stand.. if i can do anything... which i doubt I can.. its awfull knowing that if he is my dad how can some1 high ranked be such a coward to admit this and rather just let me stew instead of putting my mind at rest and saying that i wil take a test to confirm what he is denying!!..so that has pretty much made me angry and hurt and rejected..i dont want anything to do with his life just need to know that he is my bilogical father for medical and other obvious reason...how much do detectives cost and where could i find one??? hey thanks for giving me your thoughts!!!
WHY WOULD SOMEONE LIKE THAT NOT TAKE THE TEST? Fear that he will be proven to be your fathr afterall and he doesn't ant the emotional entanglements that that involves. Fear hat this will mss up his settled domestic life - be it as a married man or as a bachelor. Far that (and I know this isn't true in your case do think like this) that you will wan something from him - emotional involvement - money - some kind of commitment etc.
yea thats what he wants his nice married life apparently...not thinking about my feelings.. i truely dont want anything from him apart from the satisfaction in proving to him that he is my bilogical dad.. then that will be it.. i can leave him to live with his irresponsibility...and how much he has missed out...he has no other children you see to his wife... and i would imagine that she has had an input on his reaction.. what type of person would ignore this possibility!!???
After thinking about it for a long time I feel I finally need to have a paternity test done on my five year old twins but there are so many different companies out there and the prices differ so much. Obviously this will be a life changing result, but I'm torn between value and quality. Is there a reliablity issue with the cheaper tests? Should I just pay, for peace of mind instead of wasting 200 on something which might be bogus?? There are places that do the tests for 600, are these better?
Nagle if you are registed on the birth cert as their father there should be no problem but I would say don't sacrifice cost over quality. Do they already see you and treat you as their dad? Think of the effect it would have on the litle ones if it turned out that the test was wrong?
Thanks for your response Mary, but I'm actually the mother of the twins, and there has been some doubt in my mind for years about who the real father is. I'm hoping that it is the man I'm currently involved with, because he believes he is the father. When you say dont sacrifice cost over quality, do you mean dont pay over the odds or do you mean that I should pay for a test I believe is better quality?
Sorry Nagle - I meant pay for the test your believe is better quality.
Thanks Mary. I don't really want to use one of these internet companies, I find them difficult to trust. I know the Blackrock Clinic do the tests but they seem way overpriced (like 1300), is there anywhere else in Ireland that do the test?
barrington laborities limerick is only e300 and its very accurate.
any luck with your dad lately lucy?
a friend of mine is undergoing a raternity test to determine whwther or not he is the father of his two year old child. He is at breaking point and i feel totally powerless as how to help him, has anybody got advice on the subject?
Dingo, your friend seems like he needs someone to talk to. He should seek a paternity testing service which offers some counselling. These are few and far between I've found, but I know for a fact there are two in Dublin and one in Cork that offer pre and post testing counselling that would be of benefit to your friend.
Could i take the liberty to ask if anybody can explain what was a KAHNS TEST and WR carried out on a Full term Pregnant Woman for and why would this woman be brought in 3weeks before birth which took place in St James in the early 70s. Will be ever so grateful for any assistance with this Query, Thanks in anticipation.
Nosey, am assuming that you don't mean the Kahn's Test for Symbol Arrangement and a paired association-learning task (whihc was a test given during drug trial for drugs like diazepam) but rather Khan's Test for the diagnosis of syphilis. This may have been neccessary for the woman as special care may have been needed at the birth, should it turn out that the woman tested positive. Can you tell us what you mean by WR - what do these initials stand for?
I am not sure what all this means only it appears on Discharge note Ie: Mothers W.R.& Kahn Tests: Negative. I would like to know under what circumstances would warrent the Mother to undergo these test and are the in current use in Adoption Cases. Please respond and maybe it can be of interest to Other Mothers of the Early Seventies Era and maybe it will strike up a Disscusion Topic. Thanks in anticipation. Yours Nosey.
W.R. stands for Wassermann Reaction, it is also a blood serum test for syphillis (to do with antibodies I think). As I mentioned, these may have been neccessary for the woman as special care may have been needed at the birth, should it turn out that the woman tested positive. Not sure how it relates to adoption. It may have been, way back in the 50's, and PLEASE PLEASE do not take this as an insult or anything but in those days if a young unmarried girl became pregnant, the authorities at the time, may have assumed that she was promiscuous (tho' this wasn't often the case) and may have therefore requested a test for syphilis - just an idea.
Your mother may have been displaying signs of the disease which may include a rash or sores called chancres (can-kers) which at certain stages during the disease are highly infectious or she may have engaged in activities that she believed put her at risk of contracting the disease. Also note, that although syphilis is primarily a sexually transmitted illness, it is possible to contract it in a variety of different ways. Sometimes other anomalies may present like a syphilis chancre, a Bartholins Cyst for example which is totally benign and will not affect the impending delivery but may have warranted the test. If the tests had come back positive for syphilis this would have incurred certain risks to the unborn baby. The disease may be transmitted to you, the baby, congenitally, resulting in possible blindness or other syphilitic ailments. It is however very easy to treat once detected. It is also more common than you'd think and can often be asymptomatic in women and go undetected. There could also be a chance that it was a routine test, but essentially theres absolutely nothing to be concerned about.
I would like to Thank both contributors for their enlightment to this disscussion and would like other contributors as well and if anybody can shed any light why refer this Mother tobe to St James and not any of the other Maternity Hospitals in The Greater Dublin Area at the time or was it done as a favour to someone with Standing in a particular Field of Commerce. Thanks Again, Nosey.
In fact Nosoey, it is recommended in the U.S. (not sure about here) that all mothers teke a routine syphillis test, as a matter of course, during the fiurst trimester of their pregnancy - as the disease is at its easiest to treat then. However, as your mothers' came back negative, thgen you (and indeed she) had nothing to worry about on that score.
Nosey, I'm not sure what you mean by someone with Standing in a particular Field of Commerce? But it may be at the time, that St James was the testing centre for all STD's in the Dublin area as most probably at the 8 and half month stage, the mother will already have been booked into a maternity hospital anyway.
I want to to thank all who have helped with my queries to date and offer them all Seasons Greeting and a very fullfilled NewYear and with their help we will be able to get a lot of more topics dissused in a forum such as this. I also want to Express my thanks to our Facilitors "Irishhealth" and would like to see site expanding into the future, Yours Sincerly, Nosey.
in dublin city centre for 300 euro by ormond quay paternity services www.oqps.com - new irish company
Hi all.. am hoping for some advice re: DNA and court procedures afterwards. my boyfriend has received a letter from a girl who he has a one night stand with over 5 years ago. she is now looking for maintenance. his name is not on birth cert and he is very upset over it as it is effecting our relationship. he has got himself a sols who has advised him to have a DNA test done. i have been told by friends that the child is very like him. just wondering will he has to pay maintenance if test comes back right....
17:13, the short answer is yes, if he is proven to be the father of the child then yes, he is liable for maintenance. He may also be granted visitation rights
Hi, My Girlfriend has just had a baby.If my name goes down on both the birthcert and as a Legal Guardian, and if later I find out that it is not mine, can i refuse to continue to pay maintenance seeing as i was tricked into believing it was my child?
Curious, you can take it to court but apparently you can't have your name removed from he birthcert - crazy I know.
Chana,Thanks for the reply.Do you know whether I will still have to pay child support even if its proven not to be my child (Seeing as my name is down as the father on the birth Cert and as a legal Guardian)? Also,Is there any penalty imposed on the woman for falsely naming me as the father?
The matter of child support is for the courts to decide and what is also takeninto account is whether you are acting as a father to the child and whether s/he sees you as a father and how long this has been the case for. As for penalty - unless you can absolutely prove that she put your name on the cert when she knew FOR A CERTAINTY that you could not be the father (pretty much impossible) and that there was attendant malice on her part - then the short answer is No
I have recently found out that my husband is not the father of our 4 year old. I had a one night stand at the time and used protection and was as shcoked as he was. I don't and never have thought that my husband is a particularly good father and am now in recontact with my child's biological father who is now building a bond with him. What are my husbands rights. I would like him out of my sons life as far as much as i possibly can. Where do I stand
To my knowledge, under Irish law the father of a child is considered to the man to whom the mother is married at the time of the child\'s conception (9 months before the birth).
I know but surely the biological father has some entitlement with my consent
SAL, I think you can get the biofathers name put on the birthcert with these results and then he will be entitled to certain rights.
In order to get the fathers name changed on he birthcert, yur husband / ex-husband would have to legally give up his right to paternity.
my best friend has a 4year old after a one night stand.. the child's father lives near by but she never told him the child was his, however when we were out recently we heard he had got engaged and now my friend has got herself a sols and is looking for maintenance. i don't think its very fair to the man involved and i have told her this as she should have looked for it 4years ago.. She is trying to break up this man's relationship as she has said that she will not allow him to see the child.. Where does she stand if it goes to court?
Personallly I think your friend has what my mothr would call "a sour on". She did not look for maintenance for 4 years and did not even tell the man the child was his - she is not in a relaitonshoip with him but is just doing this to break up his relationship. She soesn't have him - never tried to get together with him in the ast 4 years and now suddenly doesn't want him to be with someone else. s for stoppign him seing his child - well if she is looking for maintenence and he admits maternity I don't see how he can be prevented from seeign his child provided the courts agre it;s fo the benefit of the child and he doesn't have any drug or violence convictions.
My boyfriend of 9years has just had a phonecall from a girl that lives in our town who was previously engaged to another for the same length of time. she now has rang my boyfrienf for a paternity test which has now shown that my boyfriend is the father. how can she do that, is he entitled to pay maintenace even though she fooled this other guy who dumped her and demanded this test and he's named as the father on the birth cert.
The most recent post about the one night stand and 4 year old child shows what a tricky area this is. If a woman wants to take a man to court to undergo a paternity test or suspects he is the father of her child she should take action as soon as possible. In my opinion the longer she waits before taking action, the weaker her case regardless of paternity. Just because a man is a father doesn't automatically make him a dad. Men should also take responsibility - not using condoms on a one night stand is dangerous!
Anon - 16.07 I am sorry, but I can't really follow your post Your boyfriend of 9years has just had a phonecall from a girl who was engaged to another man for 9 years? Now she is looking for a paternity from your boyfriend? Or has he already done the paternity test which has proven him as the father of her child? In tems of her fooling her former fiance - is the former fiance's name on the childs birth cert? If so, it may be very difficult to have the name removed?
yes this mans name is on the birth cert. my boyfriend has had the paternity test done and its his child. will he have to pay maintenace or what is the case with the other being named as the father. she had to have known it was my boyfriends as she only asked him for the test or why did her fiance question the son after all this time and him named as father. what is our legal situation
If her fiance\'s name is on the birth cert, it will be very difficult to have it removed but that would be her first step. She would then need to have your boyfriends name (with his consent of course) put on the birth cert. But the most important person in all thi is the 9 year old child. Has he formed a father/son relationship with this fiance and looks upon him as his Dad, wheras most likely he doesn\'t even know your boyfriend. The courts will also take this into account alogn with the fact that for 9 years she never investigated paternity.
just had paternity test done with my GP, 2 doors down from me, in Nenagh! The company is DNA Ireland, 475 for a court approved test, definitely the cheapest I could find. I don\'t get these \"peace of mind\" tests, does that mean that it\'s not as accurate as the court appr. test, you get what you pay for, thats what I always say! I think they have a website but actually my GP seemed to know all about it, thats where I went first to find out about it, I think they do it through any GP in the country
i have read on this discussion that paternity tesing could not be done on unborn babies in ireland but that message was dated in 2001 and i want to know if there has been any advances in this area in ireland yet.please help.need to know desperately.
As far as I know, foetal paternity testing is possible by amniocentises (sp?), but becuase this procedure carries certain risks, Doctors are unwilling to carry it outr without precise medical reasons and paternity, generally, is not one.
thanks mary for the reply.guess its too risky so to test a foetus.how soon after baby is born can a paternity test be done?
For a blood test, I think, around 3 months old.
yikes,thats a long time for one to be waiting and wondering. what about a test that would just use for eg a hair, or a swap from their mouth?sorry for so many questions but we need to know!
They can do a test with cheek swabs but generally there would need to be a really serious reason for such a rush. Also, those testsare not held as being as relaible as blood tests.
You can have the test done on a new born baby. DNA Ireland do the heel prick on new borns or they can arrange for your GP to do it. They have a heel prick done at the hospital just after they're born so it's very straight forward, their number is 021 4960075
barringtons hospital in limerick also do the test and will do it on baby of 6 weeks old, costs 350 and can be done through your own gp.
i am from galway. i have a 5week old daughter and i want to get a paternity test done. i want to know how much the tests are. i am only 16 so i cant afford the more expensive ones!!
DNA Ireland do home swab tests for 300, their number is 021 4690075. They\'ll post you a kit and you can take the swabs yourself or take the kit along to your GP and he\'ll take the swabs for you - I think you have to pay the GP the usual fee of about 40
I watched a TV documentary about DNA Testing, it as left me with some doubt about a test I had. this new "report" claims that DNA Testing in babies under 18 months is not reliable, it also states that the DNA test may mislead the results, they say it all depends on how many times mum and dad had sex in other words how much DNA the father left behind whilst mum was pregnant with baby,. They say the unborn baby would incorporate this DNA whilst in the fetus development stage and hence could mislead a DNA result. Is there any chance of this? I have had doubts since the test now that baby is older, baby does not have any features of mine or my families and he looks the other alleged father, I dont know what to do now or where I go from here.
Mike - it takes one sperm to fertilize an ovum. This is the only DNA required and does not depend on "how much DNA the father leaves behind" (whatever that is supposed to mean). It taks on;y one episide of intercourse for fertilisation to occur and a blastocyst, once it is formed, does not "absorb" DNA from anywhere. It's DNA structie is established on fertilisation.
Hello everybody...I am 3 months pregnant, my boyfriend left me denying he was a father. I am 100% sure he is a father of my baby. He told me he didnt't want his surname on birth certificate and that he went to solicitor so I can't put his surname on it.. Can court force him to do DNA test?..and i also worry that he can run away abroad or simply changes his address...what then?
Paternity testing should be freely available for anyone who wants it a mother knows for 100 percent that she is the mother of a child but if a father wants to know for 100 percent its all of a sudden a big deal. we have to take a womans word for it but if the roles were reversed you would be able to get paternity tests at your local shop by now.
Just one point: Under Irish law, the father of a child is considered to be the man to wohom the mother is married to in the case where the mother is married. Otherwise it is a matter of trust unless proven.
Free paternity testing should be available to all fathers at the birth of there child. Figures of paternity fraud are startling. But of course they are not published in news papers because lord forbid it might make women look bad. No matter how much I love my wife and believe she is loyal, I will have a peternity test for all our children. I dont want to find out in 20 years time by chance that I am not the father. I have shared my view with my wife and she understands. Note that I was not asking her permission - it is a choice I have 100% control over. A women will always know who the mother is obviously so it should be as accepted and accessible and free for the father to have the same knowledge.
Andra - haven't you ever head of TRUST? If you mistrust your wife that much why on earth did you marry her? Clearly if you think your children would need a paternity test then you don't believe your wife is loyal. Has she ever given you a reason not to trust her? (or is it just paranoia?) Yes, it is a choice you 100% control over as you are married but it same may not be same legally for unmarried fathers. Of course you don't need her permission any more than she would need yours if she wanted to have genetic testing done, for example but the consent of both parties MUST be given (this is the law not just an opinion) and of course it is just common courtesy for agreement to be sought but why on earth should it be free. A women will always know who the mother is obviously but that is biology. Incidentally, paternity testing notwithstanding, under Irish law the father of a child is considered to be the man to whom the mother was married, Patriarchal but that is the law as it stands.
I hope someone can help give me some info on this. I\'m 19 and pregnant. I\'m due in the summer. I\'m not on speaking terms with the father since we broke up. I know that he wants to be part of the baby\'s life,\'but I want to give the baby up for adoption. I\'m worried that when he finds out he\'ll cause me a lot of hassle. If I deny that he is the father what rights does he have? Can he force me to have a paternity test done? I don\'t want him to be involved at all. How will this affect the adoption?
He has the legal right to prevent the adoption going ahead. Is there some specific reason why you are denying your child their right to have a father?
Hi, What happens if an unmarried father turns out not to be the father, even though his name is on the birth cert? is he then entitled to claim back monies / maintenace from the person who is proved to be the father, I'm in a position where it may turn out that I'm not the father. I do not want to be repaid by the mother as she cannot afford it & I do not want to cause her any hardship. It turns out that this man was convinced from the start that child is his but refused to take on his responsibilities when my partner told him, but now after two years wants a DNA test. If it is proved that he is the father as he has always suspected then am I entitled to be refunded the money I have spent on his child? Any advice would be helpful
Anonymous Posted: 20/04/2007 09:10, I think you should sek your solicitors advice on this matter
If an unmarried father is willing to take a paternity test and willing to make maintenance payments if its proved he is the father is he still in a position to refuse to have his name on the birth cert, or can he by law be forced to do this
Lolo, if he is willing to be proven to be the father and willing to pay child support, why on earht would he refuse to have his name of the birth cert of a child he is proven to and willingly admits to being the father of?
DNA Solutions has a free online chat where you can talk directly with DNA testing staff and ask questions: http://www.dnasolutions.ie/eireenquiry.htm
hi i desperatly need some help.i was with a fella -X-on 31st and regularly sleeping wit someone else -Y-.on the month of last period i had letz(lazer on cervic)so i wasn't sure of my exact dates of period cause i had a lot of bleeding.but normal cycle is always last sun or mon of mth.1 scan said i was pregnant since the 10th of the month(as in first day of my last period?another scan said the 14th.they say u can only get pregnant on day 13,14,15 which i think is a joke but there must be some logic to it?as in the egg ant in the right place and hence the reason etopics. i had the baby 3 weeks 2 days early but she showed none of the normal signs of being pre mature(weight ect.)sex wit X was wit a condom which he took upon himself to take off & i only realised after a minute,foolish it sounds but he did cum inside me.Y had told me his sperm count was 0,we didnt use anythin as we were together for 3 years and were still havin break up sex!!!.Y said he wanted to be with me and believed the baby was his,got results of a test done2months before the incident and it confirmed he had some swimmers!! he is currently in another country,he missed birth ect and ant seen her yet,due back in sept.i need2know who her daddy is,it has me upset all the time.Y has turned in2 a prick about it & told me to just contact X because im putting him on a guilt trip bout not being here & now he wants nothin2do wit me expressing how im a slut ect.before babay came everythin was great,he on;y left 4 weeks ago but a lot happened as i was in hopo before i had her and he didn't seem to care.my mam thinks its an excuse so he didn't hav to miss out on his travels.doing a dna with X is not somethin i want 2 do.y will still not accept that if x is negative in anyway. hope ur following this :) basically can i get him tested from abroad?can i get tests done using his mam or brothers dna?baby will be 3 mths when he comes home and i dn't wan tto wait that long?also she has facial and body features of Y,i feel in my heart and know when i look at her she's Y's..
Hi, am in my second trimester, pregnant as a result of a one night stand (had 2 one night stands a week apart) Has anyone been in a similar situation? How did you handle telling the potential fathers? And how did you tell your parents? It's my first baby, whos moving as I type. Would appreciate some good advice.
Hi I was married for 8 years and am now separating from my husband. We have 3 children and he is the father of all of them. He has recently made an application to the court for a DNA test to test for paternity. Apart from being insulted, I have major concerns for the children as they are very worried if they have to do a test. They don't understand. All three of them have started to wet the bed again and are playing sick almost every day to avoid school. They keep asking why there dad is doing this. Can I ask whether I can stop this test going ahead, or what view will the courts take. He pays no maintenance and before our separation always accepted he was the father; he was at all the births.
my concievement dates are the 3rd and 30th but the gynacologist's is the 10th,my baby looks nothing like the father from the 3rd is it possible its the 10th??
I WOULD LIKE TO BE CERTAIN WHETHER SHE IS TRUELY MY DAUGHTER.HOW DO I GO ABOUT DNA TEST.WHERE TO GO AND HOW MUCH DOES IT COST?.
Da JJ - legally it would depend on your circumstances. If you were married to her mother then the father o a child is legally considered to be the man to whom the mother was / is married. Also, if your name is on the birh cert then it is very very difficult to have it legally removed. I take it your are seperated and now think that your daughter might be the child from an affair?
DA JJJ - this would all depend on the curcumstances. Were you married to her mother and are now seperated / divorced? Have you any grounds for thinking that she might not be your daughter? Most importantly, Are you legally named as her father- by marriage and / or on the birth cert. And Does she look upon you as her father. If the last two circumstance are the case, I would assume that the courts would be very reluctant to bring any truama on the little girl in that case.
Can I be forced to take a paternity test? Please allow me explain the scenario. I live in California and this all occurs in California. In October of 1993 I was dating Ms. TH, for easier reading we'll dub her as "MsTH". In December if 1993 MsTH disappeared without notice to become engaged to her exboyfriend. In May of 1993 MsTH was married and in late September of 1993 gave birth to a son. In February of 1997 I became married to another person as well. In 2005 MsTH divorced from her husband after bearing two  children. Earlier this year I too finalized a divorce from my wife of 10 years after bearing two  children. MsTH has since attempted to contact me six  different times without notice at work and in the middle of the night at my home. I have been told through gossip channels that, although MsTH originally told her exhusband he was the father, MsTH now claims her first child born, in 1994, was fathered by me and the lack of resemblance between her exhusband and son was the eventual reason for her marital problems which consequently led to a divorce. To be honest it is a little spooky how MsTH even knows where I live, so this becomes a two part question. 1. Can I be forced to take a paternity test based on here-say from 14 years ago and 2. What should I do to secure a restraining order to prevent MsTH from coming around my home, office or even my children?
Anon, you will need to check out the local laws. The laws here may be vastly different and you are U.S. citizen / resident rather than an Irish one. Under Irish law, the father of a child is considered to be the man to whom the mother is married. Unfair and wrong as this may seem in 2008 this is the law as it stands. On the harrassment issue, if it were here I would advise you to seek a restraining order from the county court but again, local laws where you are, may differ.
Hi ! I had a 5 or 10 minute stand one night with a girl nine years ago. it was quick. i was highly intoxicated and f*&%%$ up and done my thing and we both stood up right after and walked down town to get a taxi home. so any way i returned to america and i went home a year later to find out she had a child and i was supposed to be the father so i met with her and demanded a test and she got upset with me because she said i must think she was some kind of whore or something but she declined the test. so i set out on the investigation and found out a few of my friends had also slept with her in that same period that time i was home. so i said to myself she must have something to hide! so anyway i flew back to america and wondered for quite some time if this kid was mine or somebody else's. so my brother called me one day to tell me he ran into her and that she had told him if he talked to me to have me call her and i did and i willingly said i would be more that happy to be in the kids life but i would like to have a paternity test done and she went off again on me got mad and said alright then ill give you your test and you'll give me 20 thousand euro and we'll call it a day. and my name is on the birth cert and i didn't authorize anybody to put it on there, so i have my hands full so the question is what is the child's maintenance fee for a child and how much would i owe if i am the father of the child after 9 years? And why would she tell me nine years later that i was her first when i know fully well she had been with people i know ????? that had told me they slept with her???????
Bob, I take it you're Irish and resident in the U.S. First of all they cannot extradite you for fathering a child :-) and I doubt there is any international agreement regarding paternity testing or maintenance. Unfortunatley once a name is on hte birth cert it is difficult to get it removed as the birth cert is a legal document - but this would also be dependant on whehter you were an actual father of the child in terms of being part of her life rather than just the biological father. However, I cannot see how she can sue for maintenance if the paternity test is negative.
Dose anybody know how much the child maintenance is at this day and age in ireland and is it weekly or monthly????
Monthly usually and based on the child's age - it could be anything from 200 per month per child upwards.
hi, i am just wondering if there is any1 out there that can help or give me advice?...i had a child with my x 2 yrs ago. she always maintained the child was mine but i always had doubts due to me knowin da history of her past. i paid maintainence every week nd am a big part of the childs life along with my family. 6 monhs ago i went t court to arrange access...everythin was sound until i mentioned i wanted a dna test done. the mother flately refuses to do test she is not willing to do t under any circumstances which just says to me that she not 100% sure. i stoped maitainence goin straight to the mother acc and hav kept t in my savings acc till this is all sorted a few weeks ago to c f that might cop her on but t hasnt. m due back in court soon and if she still refusin the judge will pass n court that m not the father which is not wat i want just want the test done so we all can move on. wat can i do? is there anyway she can be made do the test? can i go it alone? any help would be greatly appreciated
glaj, if you are the childs father and ecognised s such legally etc then there is no reason why you could not have the test done yourself but if you are a big part of the childs life and were paying maintenence with no problem and you do not wnat a situation where the judge rules that you are not the father (which he cannot do without proof anyay) then why the paternity test?
i want the test done because i am not 100% sure that i am the father. i never had been. also the mother of the child cant tell da truth to save her life. i hav found out that she has had 5 different fellas at her house da last 6 months. we weren 2gether wen the child was concieved and i know she was sleepin round then so for them reasons i want the test done. dont want to live rest of my life wondering.
My daughter had a baby 4 months ago and when she was with her ex partner who beat and didn't want anything to do with the baby. now he wants a dna test to prove that he's the father. the problem we have is that he lives in england and we live in ireland. how do we go about getting this sorted out for the sake of the baby?
If you love the child then why would you want to risk losing it by getting a test that may show that you're not the father?
Has he said why he wants the test done? Do you think maybe he is going to try to get access? A similar thing happened to my best friend, her ex fiance was beating her up (one time even when their one week old baby was lying on the bed next to her) and she managed to get away but he still has supervised access to the child now. I dont want to alarm but as someone who has seen how these nasty men behave (ie they view their children and exes as possessions) you need to be prepared to fight dirty. Your daughter needs to nip this in the bud and press charges for assault if she has not already done so. She needs to be sure that the courts will NOT allow this man to see his child. At a time when "Fathers rights" are a hot topic, you would be surprised at how much women still have to fight to keep themselves and their babies safe. My best friend has been let down by the courts so many times. he breaks the protection order and there are NO reprecussions for him. He stalks her and texts/calls constantly, turns up at her work and the police KNOW what he did and what he is capable of. You all need to stick together and (as bad as it sounds) play as dirty as you can to get this coward out of your lives. I'm sorry I dont mean to try to scare anyone but we need to be armed with knowledge and fight against these bullies. All the best x
We moved over 500 miles away from this bloke and he dosent know where we are at all , he gets to my daughter via bebo and facebook , but ive spent the early hours blocking him so he cant get her now or my grandson ,
ive told my daughter not to bother with this test because its been proved when baby was born he was in a incubator because he had jaundice so his blood is not the same has mine and my daughter , but its the same has my daughters ex . like i said to my daughter why bend to his needs , the bloke is nothing but a bully he dosent deserve to be a father , we are going to move again after xmas so he cant keep track of my daughter , thank you for the advice
Sorry to hear of the latest stories being told. But on the general point of not knowing whether you're the father or not: I doubt mothers would be too happy if there wasn't a very good tagging system in hospitals and babies could easily get "mixed up". Indeed I recall one incident of possible mistagging which became a huge issue somewhere a few years back (can't remember whether it was the UK, Ireland or where) and the hospital ordered genetic tests - there was no problem there about doing the test and the ethics of it. So I think it is reasonable for a man to want to know whether he is the biological father or not (just as I think a woman would like to know if she was the biological mother).
Sorry to hear of the latest stories being told. But on the general point of not knowing whether you're the father or not: I doubt mothers would be too happy if there wasn't a very good tagging system in hospitals and babies could easily get "mixed up". Indeed I recall one incident of possible mistagging which became a huge issue somewhere a few years back (can't remember whether it was the UK, Ireland or where) and the hospital ordered genetic tests - there was no problem there about doing the test and the ethics of it. So I think it is reasonable for a man to want to know whether he is the biological father or not (just as I think a woman would like to know if she was the biological mother).
Yes TK people have a right to KNOW if a child is biologically theirs, but this should not be confused with the right to ACCESS. Just because someone is biologically their father, if they are abusive or threatening then their right to custody or visitation needs to be looked at. Lou Lou you are to be commended for your effort to keep your daughter and grandson safe, but dont spend the rest of your lives running away from this guy. Bullies need to be confronted and hauled up before the courts and held accountable for their actions.
Hi Lou Lou, some wise advice there from Lou, absolutley spot on. If your daughter was marred to this man then irish law would consider him to be the father. Archaic I know but that is how the law stands. Also if he is on the birth cert, he is consiered by law to be the father. However, if he wants a DNA test and his name is not on he birth cert, he would need a court order to enforce it. But given that he lives in trhe UK and court orders of this nature are not extradictial, then the answer is no - your daughter does not have to have the test done unless she wants to. Any attempt by him to take the child in order to have testing done would be considered kidnap and might well be regarded as assault. Certainly when the child is of age she is entitled to know who her fahter is but given is apalling behaviour Lou is perfectly right, he certainly should not have access.The very best of luck Lou lou.
Regarding the incubator, jaundice thing that you mentioned. Be absolutely assured that the baby's DNA will NOT have been altered as a result of that and a DNA test will still be accurate if you decide to go through with it.
Is there a question over the child's paternity or is the father just trying to be difficult?
thank you to all who have given me there advice about my daughter and grandson , lou u are rite im not going to run anymore , he dosent know where we are at the moment , everything my daughter does is monitered through me and my partner , if she goes on internet then either one of us sit with her so he cant make contact with her , my daughters ex partner plays mind games and because my daughter has low self shes liable to say where she is , hes been blocked from face book and bebo , so i know he cant get her through that now , my daughter is so guilable at the moment , so being careful and safe for my daughter and grandson is the best bit at the moment , so once again thanks to all who have given me advice and kind words
hi i nd help. i split from 1 boy and had a casual realship with another. i fell out with him due to his drug abuse and temper. i then i descovered i was pregnant. i don't know which 1 is the father. however i then got with my current b/freind and from 10wks of preg till now he been there, he knows he nt the blood father but raising her as his own. the baby 4mths now. the x who has a drug prob is trying to force me to do a dna. i don't want him in my r my babys life, i am freightened of him. do i have to agree dna and if proven what would the outcome be for contact. if i don't have to agree is there any way he can makeme.thanks
Hi Stue, it's hard to make out some of your post, so sorry if I haven't got this right. First off, who's name is on your baby's birth cert as the father. If it is not your ex, then he cannot force you to take a DNA test without a court order. If it is your ex and he is trying to disprove that then he can arrange to have the test done but whether his name can be subsequently removed from the birth cert without proving who the father actually is is something you'll have to take legal advise on. If you volunteer to have the test done and it is proven that he is the father this does not automatically gauruntee him access - especially if he has a history of drug or violence convictions altho it may impact whether he is legally accoutable for maintenance payments.
thank you for yr advise and sorry for my confusion. no-one is on th birth cert i left it blank, and it is my ex who is trying to get a dna done. the person i am currently with is raising her as his own but knows he isn't. how long does it take to get a court to agree to a dna. is there any way i can get the court not to allow it. if they allow a dna does that automatically give him contact. thank you for any advise i appreaciate it.
Hi Stue, if your ex is not named on the birth cert then he could not legally get a dna test done without a court order. This could well take months and more - your solicitor will advise on that. If the courts order a dna test and it is proven that he is the father this does not automatically garauntee him access rights (especially if he has a history of drug or violence convictions). However, bear in mind if he is in fact the biological father of your daughter, she, in time, has a right to know who half of her biological identity is - even if she never has contact or never wishes to have contact with him.
I Could do with a bit of advice,
I slept with a girl earlier this year. I knew the girl before but we weren't friends. We are not together now and have no intentions of getting together. Anyway, a month after we slept together she told me she was pregnant and i was the father. She said she hadn't slept with anyone in the previous 10 months to us getting together. I took her at her word that I am the father. I went with her to 2 scans and we bought some clothes for the baby together last month. I asked her for a paternity test and she said I could get one when the child is born. In November she wants me to go with her to buy a pram and a cot and other things for the baby for when it is born. (Due in December) All costs split down the middle. Because I don't know her very well and can't be certain if I am really the father, I am wondering should I really be putting myself to such an expense, and setting myself up for a fall if it does turn out not to be mine. These thoughts are in my head because my family are telling me I am too attached already, and if if it turns out that I am not the father I will be devastated. Am I being mean and unreasonable? Would it be a good idea for me to tell her: I'm not pay for anything else for the baby until it is proven that I am the father. Then I will reimburse her with my half of all the money she has already spent on things. I am finding it hard to tell her this because she hasn't a lot of money and ain't sure if she can actually afford them on her own.
Hi me2, if you have reason to suspect that you may not be the father, I would question as to why she wants to delay the paternity test until after the child is born? Afterall if she is 100% sure you ar the father then why delay? As she is after the first trimester and I am presuming you are both under 35 so no increased risk of miscarriage with the test. If she is concerned about the cost of the test, offer to pay for it instead of any more baby items and if it does turn out that you are the father you can still split the cost of any further items you buy.
Hi..Im 6 months pregnant with my first baby..Due in May..I was with my partner for 3 years but after a row leading 2 temporary breakup in Aug i slept with another man on the rebound..(stupidly unprotected)In Sept i started on the contraceptive injection and got back with my partner of 3years..In January i realised i was 19wks pregnant very late because the 2 pregnancy tests my doctors had done came up negative or were read wrong by my doctor.i will never know..Anyway i thought due to dates this baby was my one night stands so i decided to tell him..In january..But in the last 2 weeks i found my old phone with dates on it and this baby is clearly my ex's baby..So i have told my one night stand and he wont believe me..I am now recieving threats from him via-facebook saying he is going to a judge to have a injunction put on the babys birthcert until he gets a dna test done which the court will order?and he already has some forms signed..(baby is not due until late may)..He claims he also has the right to stop me leaving the country and he can be present at the birth wheter i want him there or not..another claim he is making is his solicitor says because of the conversations he has recorded saying this baby was his will allow social srevices to have a field day with me and that he will also have it splashed all over local papers what i have done to him..I have apologized and explained that i made a mistake and that the baby is not his but he keeps hassling me..Has anyone any advice
Hi Confused, I think the first thing you needs to do is block him on facebook. I believe you also needs to contact the guards and explain that he is publicly threatening you. I would imagine that an newspaper of any decent standing will not print such detials about peoples lives - they know the meaning of defamation of character. You can certainly have a DNA test done and have your solicitor send him a copy of the results but given his behaviour is use (and understanding ) of the term, injunction is ironic. His claim tha the can have you prevented form leaving the country is complete and utter nonsense of the first order. Simply because a woman is pregnant does not make her the chattel of the man who suspects (erroneously) himself to be the father of the child. You have commited no crime nor are you subject to any court order on suspicious of commiting any offence. As for his claim about being present at the birth, There is absolutley no way whatsoever that ANYone (apart from medcial staff of course) whom you do not wish to be present - be they partner, mother, sister or anyone else, can be present. No "right" exists for anyone to be present at ANY birth and any cliam otherwise is quite simply laughable and any attempt by any party to exercise such an imagined "right" would be dealth with extremely quickly by hospital security. I cannot see ANY need for social services to intervene unless there is a child welfare issue involved. As for the recorded conversations? Did you give him permission to record them? If not they are legally inadmissable.
hi im a single father.i have full custody of my kids for the past number of years but ive doubts about one being mine.my name isnt on the birthcert and im slightly confused as ive read if the child turned out not to be mine that id have had no right to get the dna done in the first place,mothers consent is not an option as i know she wont agree to it because if said child turned out not to be mine she would not get custody either hence why i have custody in the first place,if and when i get it done nothing will change,i will still continue to raise the child as my own and love said child equally along with my other children they are my world!,contacting possible father isnt an option either as i know he would deny it[already has] plus i think in my childs best interests it would be best if i continued my role but i need to know,number 1 god forbid if my child ever had a medical condition and number 2 piece of mind for myself,my gut feeling tells me im not childs father but i need to know,it eats away at me every day!where do i stand,can i get dna for me an child without mother knowing,i have full custody guardianship etc children live with me,but my name isnt on birthcert,seems like catch 22 to me all info regarding this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Sr20-det, I'm a bit confused, if knowing is not going to change anything, you'll still retain custody, love and look after the child and the suspected bioloigical father will refuse to get paternity testing done or have his name piut on the birth cert and you're not gpoign to go to court to have your name put on the birthcert then ourside of a medical reason, what is the test going to change?
hi my sons father lives in a different country i reared my son on my own as his fater did not want responsablity his father went on and had two children with some one eles who has his name on the birth cert although he is currently living in dubai my son is now 17 and seens he was 16 has been trying to contact his father who now denys him yet will not give a dna can a declaration of parentage be sent to the mother of the other two children as he is on there birth cert and can one be sent to my sons grandparents on his fatherts side ?
What are the chances of a blood paternity test done 19 years ago being wrong ? My husband called for a test on a previous relationship, the woman in question has two other children from two different fathers, she then fell pregnant again supposedly from my husband. I have always questioned the paternity but have never been shown any documentation to back this up. I have recently come across a photo of her second child and the resemblance between the two leads me to question; they have the same mouth, nose, shape eye, eyebrows and forehead. The only difference is the hair and eye colour. The eldest child does not look like them at all. What is the possibility that the test is wrong?
Can the paternity tests be altered how sure can we know that the tests are not fraudulent?