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Bridging the dental divide...
by Jim Clarke, irishhealth.com
Last year, irishhealth.com conducted an informal survey of dentists north and south of the border. What we found was a substantial difference in the cost of dental treatment, as much as 50% for some procedures. These conclusions were recently confirmed by a Consumers' Association survey that revealed average prices for dental procedures in Dublin tended to be between 10% and 50% higher than in Northern Ireland, even after the exchange rate had been taken into account.
'Dental costs in Dublin can be up to 50% higher than in Northern Ireland'.
The Consumers' Association received complaints from dentists after previous research had first confirmed a gap in prices that Northern Ireland dentists were already exploiting by advertising for custom in the Republic. They argued that prices were higher in the South because dentists in Northern Ireland have much lower overheads.
However, following the most recent survey which reveals differences of hundreds of pounds in the cost of some treatments, the Consumers' Association has called on the government to investigate.
"We feel that, even after taking these points on board, there is still no justification for the kind of price gap we are seeing", said a CAI spokesperson. "Irish consumers still pay far more than their counterparts in Northern Ireland and not one of the arguments mounted by the dental industry has addressed this".
The Irish Dental Association has refuted the CAI findings and questioned how the Consumer Association conducted the survey. The IDA secretary-general Donal Atkins told irishhealth.com that the CAI survey was based on phone conversations with a handful of dentists. The CAI were not available to confirm or deny this.
"There is an assumption that the CAI article is a scientifically conducted survey", said Donal Atkins. "In fact, they telephoned only three or four dentists in each area. The editor explained to me that they had difficulty in getting clear information. This research is skimpy and casual, but in my view it is more or less right".
Mr Atkins concurs with the CAI that private patients do pay prices for dental treatment in the Republic which are significantly higher than those in Northern Ireland. However, he believes that the differences for common treatment such as fillings, check-ups and extractions are minimal.
He also believes that because so many dental procedures in the North are subsidised by the NHS, Northern Ireland dentists are able to undercut their Southern counterparts on the more lucrative cosmetic and orthodontic treatments.
"I would say unequivocally that there is little or no difference in price between the North and the South for routine family dentistry", he said. "For more sophisticated procedures, like crowns and bridges, there is a difference in cost. But we are talking only about the price of everything when the nub of the issue is what precise product are people buying".
Patients who travel to the North for their dental treatment may save money in the short-term, he admitted, but they may find that there are longer-term difficulties. He cited a study conducted by 'The Observer' which found that much of the dental treatment being performed in the UK does not reach European standards.
"There is clearly a difference between visiting one dentist two or three times for two hours at a time to get a quality bridge fitted and travelling to a different dentist who will see you for an hour at most on one occasion", he said. "There hasn't been any research done on the quality of dental work like fillings and crowns in Ireland and I wish there was. I wonder how it would compare to the UK, where 80% of crowns do not fit, according to 'The Observer'".
The British Dental Association, which represents Northern Ireland's dentists, understandably did not wish to be drawn into the debate on why prices for dentistry were so much cheaper there. Anjula Veall, a spokesperson for the BDA, told irishhealth.com that the exchange rate between the punt and sterling distorts any price comparisons. However, even when the exchange rate is taken into account there is still a significant difference, as the CAI survey reveals.
"In Northern Ireland, dentists are permitted to advertise whereas in the Republic of Ireland, they are not", said Ms Veall. "This obviously has an effect on prices. The different fee structures, expenses, taxes and overheads between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland means that the two dental systems are not directly comparable".
'Dentists in the Republic of Ireland are banned from advertising, so patients can find it impossible to compare prices between dentists'.
In Northern Ireland, as in Britain, around 400 different items of dental treatment are available on the NHS. The patients fees for these treatments are set by the Government, which pays the whole cost for exempt patients and 20% of the cost for fee-paying adults. A third of all patients receive free dental treatment, including children, pregnant women and people on very low incomes, but not pensioners or students over 19. Fee-paying adults pay a maximum of £360 per course of treatment.
Exactly how NHS payments subsidise private dental fees in the North is not clear, but what is evident is that Northern Ireland dentists have been capitalising on the higher costs in the Republic by advertising their services. Given the lack of information about dental fees south of the border, many consumers have voted with their feet and travelled north in search of cut-price treatment.
The problem that most consumers face when attempting to find bargain dental treatment is the lack of information on prices. Few people have the time or patience to contact a range of dentists and attempt to extract price information from them.
Dentists are in general loath to reveal their range of charges without seeing the patient. They argue that it is essential to assess each individual case before treatment can be costed. Others might feel that being forced to pay for a consultation before discovering the cost of treatment is a way to discourage consumers from shopping around.
According to the Irish Dental Association, money spent on dental care is good value. The Association admits in its literature that the cost of health care is a concern to most people. What do they suggest to consumers who wish to keep costs down? "Prevent or control dental disease". In other words, if you keep your teeth and mouth in good health, you will not need expensive dental care.
But if you already need dental care, that suggestion is not really much help. Many of us still do not take our dental health seriously enough and therefore are more in need of dental work than people in other parts of Europe. Around 50% of the population do not go for a regular dental check-up. According to the Dental Health Foundation, only 52% of adults in Ireland still have all their own teeth.
So when treatment is needed, consumers are faced with the choice of attending their regular dentist and paying whatever fee is demanded, or embarking upon the sort of difficult comparison research that irishhealth.com and the CAI had to conduct.
"The problem is that there is no governing body where dental prices are concerned", a spokesperson for the Irish Dental Council told irishhealth.com. "We handle complaints about dentists relating to ethics, professional misconduct or malpractice, but we have no remit to deal with pricing. If someone gets a procedure done and they find out it would have been £100 cheaper down the road, that is not something we can address. We suggest that patients agree a price for treatment with the dentist before they begin".
This is not as easy as it sounds, however. Few dentists will give out prices over the phone and of those who do, often what they usually quote is a price range. This is due to the dentist having to add on extra charges to the basic cost of routine work if the treatment proves to be particularly complicated in an individual case. Despite this, some dentists are happy to let their prices be known.
Maura O'Donoghue will lead the forthcoming Competition Authority investigation into dental prices. The Authority will not examine why prices are higher here than in the North, as they only have the remit to check whether Irish law is being broken.
She confirmed to irishhealth.com that a number of complaints have been made to the Authority about possible price-fixing among dentists. Members of the public are believed to have alleged that dentists in certain parts of the country were charging exactly the same prices as each other for all procedures.
"We have had a number of complaints in this area, but I cannot confirm how many", she explained. "We are only able to investigate price fixing and members of the public have alleged that the same prices are being charged no matter who they go to. We've begun to look into it".
The Authority would not say whether they intend to force dentists to reveal their prices, but if they do, it is likely that this information will not be made public. The reasons why prices in the Republic are substantially more than in the North will remain unexplored by the Authority in any case.
So for the foreseeable future, prices for certain dental treatments are likely to remain cheaper in the North. However, as there are no available comparative statistics on the quality of dentistry in the Republic and the North, it is impossible to know if the treatment in Northern Ireland is sub-standard or great value.
Donal Atkins, Anjula Veall and the CAI all agree that patients should ask their dentist about prices before agreeing to treatment. The IDA also advises dentists that they should be open about prices with their patients and quote a fee range over the phone to allow patients to compare prices if they so desire.
It may very well be worth shopping around, but many patients will undoubtedly feel that familiarity with their family dentist and the hassle of looking for treatment across the border or elsewhere outweighs the potential financial savings.
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Last Reviewed: 6th June 2001
|Anonymous Posted: 05/06/2001 18:05|
|brian(sarahleah) Posted: 05/06/2001 19:46|
|Very interesting,i also have looked into this about a year ago.I need eight verner's done[sorry about the spelling]but the cost in dublin is nearly £2000. Thank's for the info.|
|Jean(Jeanreddy) Posted: 06/06/2001 09:55|
|I am missing five permanent teeth, two of which are the teeth either side of my top front teeth (sorry, can't remember the medical name of them)- they just never grew. When I was younger, I had an overwhelming phobia of the dentist so never got treatment (even though my mother said I would regret it one day) - like all mothers she was right. I went through my teens and early twenties very conscious of my smile I don't think there is one photo in my house where I am smiling. It was six months before my wedding and I started to panic that my wedding photos would look awful so I plucked up the courage to go to the dentist and seek advice. I have to say he was brilliant, he really put me at ease. I was going to need to get bridgework done (a Maryland bridge on one side and a cantalever bridge on the other) and the cost was £2,600. It was suggested at the time by a friend that getting it done in the North would possibly be cheaper but when I took into account that there would be a lot of travelling about 6 times in all, trying to get time off work and I was getting married in Feb so it would mean travelling up the North around Christmas - I felt that it just wasn't worth it. So I stayed in Dublin for treatment. The job was done slowly but surely over a space of about four months but I found that the dentist and dental technician took their time to make sure that the job was right first time - and it was. Although I paid a lot of money which I know could have gone on a new suite of furniture which I badly needed, i think that the bridgework was the best money I have ever spent. I am so much happier in myself and have a lot more confidence. And by the way the wedding photos were so nice with my new smile that I am now facing the dilemma of which ones to pick for my album.|
|marguerite Posted: 06/06/2001 13:00|
|I have a major phobia of the dentist. Which Dentist did you go to in Dublin as you seem very happy with him/her?|
|Jean(Jeanreddy) Posted: 06/06/2001 14:10|
|I was terrified going in to my dentist but he was so nice and reassuring that I am finally over my phobia.|
|Anonymous Posted: 07/06/2001 08:28|
|I also attend a different dentist after some troublesome experiences with another dentist. My new dentist is a very pleasant, reassuring and professional dentist.|
|Anonymous Posted: 08/06/2001 22:36|
|I will be having two crowns done in the near future at a cost of £250 and £350 each and I would be very interested to hear from anyone who had dental treatment in the north and was the dental treatment done to a high standard and how did the cost compare to the republic of Ireland|
|Anonymous Posted: 11/06/2001 10:07|
|I was suffering with toothache so I went to a dentist in Limerick who charged me £30 just to look at me (I don't qualify for subsidised rates yet). He also told me that I would need at least 3 fillings, which would cost me between £75-100 to do them. As I was due to go to visit family in England, I booked into my family dentist. He took 3 x-rays did a thorough exam and told me there was no way I needed 3 fillings. He then apologised for having to charge me £25.00stg! Some difference! So now I visit him whenever I go home. I certainly don't trust my dentist here! I find all medical treatment here overpriced.|
|Anonymous Posted: 14/06/2001 16:35|
|I NEED 2 BRIDGES EITHER SIDE OF MY TOP TEETH I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT IT WILL COST £2000 TO HAVE THEM DONE BUT FIRST I WILL HAVE TO HAVE THE FILLINGS RENEWED, MORE MONEY I DIDN'T ASK HOW MUCH WOULD THIS PRICE BE AVERAGE?|
|Anonymous Posted: 11/07/2001 09:45|
|Does anyone know if you have to get a root canal treatment done is there anything more the denist can give you rather than just the injection into the gum. I've been told that intravenous sedation is not an option for this type of treatment. Also is there anyone out there who has had this type of sedation before?|
|Anonymous Posted: 12/07/2001 23:58|
|I am a London trained dentist and now work in the republic. The standard here in most cases is vastly superior. Some dentists in the UK wash gloves between patients Are these cost cutting measures worth the risk|
|Anonymous Posted: 19/07/2001 02:19|
|The cost of crowns to the dentist can vary between £19stg and £200stg cheap crowns are just that, cheap! A crown in NI which costs the patient £200stg will invariably be the £19 crown. What does this tell you about the standards you will recieve.|
|Maura(Mauram) Posted: 22/08/2001 03:42|
|I need dental work done, re preserving my own teeth, into my old age, I am now 51, what with all the varing prices, I keep putting it off, and now, and no-wiser, whether it will cost £100 or £1,000. Is there any 'price list' available here in Ireland. ??|
|Anonymous Posted: 22/08/2002 19:59|
|some transparency re. pricing and standards would be nice ,why are we putting up with this as consumers|
|Anonymous Posted: 27/09/2002 22:51|
|are northern and southern dentists trained to the same standard in college.|
|paully Posted: 31/10/2002 13:59|
|ive recently lost my two top front teeth.i had a denture made and it cost 220.00 euro.however i cannot eat with it and i am very uncomfortable with it.can i get implants or bridge .im trying to get a list on the net so i can shop around and find the most suitable avenue e.g.cost,quality,locality,.its impossible even to get a list of dental centres can someone please help.|
|Anonymous Posted: 09/11/2002 20:27|
|in my area i have being qouated between €50 & €70 for a filling. the denist i am with at the moment is €70 a visit per filling. last week he carried out two alongside one another and charged me €140.00. my sister is also visiting her denist in a different county from me at the moment and spending only €45.00 a visit. she keeps getting letters from the goverment department for these saying that her claim for dental fees on her prsi have not being successful even though she has always paid cash at the end of each visit and never has being asked to sign any form by her denist to do this. my dentist tells me they are in dispute with the department and until they are compensated for the work they do we will continue to pay. i am afraid that they might be claiming unknown to us. could this happen?|
|Anonymous Posted: 02/04/2003 21:39|
|i have worked in a dental practice for many years, in the last couple of years we have had at least 3 people in our surgery whose mouth is in a complete mess after work carried out up north only 3 or 4 years previously, one person even lost some of his teeth as the standard of work and aftercare was so bad, so they end up back at a dentist in the republic anyway paying out more money. also do people in the south realise that crown and bridge work is tax deductable(med 2) so some of your money spent can be reclaimed from the revenue|
|Anonymous Posted: 01/05/2003 13:04|
|I am covered by PRSI and hadn't been to a dentist for few years. I was under the impression that cleaning would be free but I was charged 60 euros for cleaning because it was "intensive" - 15 mins ? To me it was the basic cleaning ? It does put me off going as I feel I am been ripped off - the receptionist put the money into her pocket but did give me a receipt when requested !!|
|Anonymous Posted: 01/05/2003 14:12|
|Well I visitied my dentist for a cleaning recently, having put off the visit while the dispute was on. While the dentist cleaned, she found a cavity and asked me if I wanted it filled there and then - I said yes as there was no point in putting off and I am covered by PRSI. However when we went to make the next appointment, she mentioned the bill and I queried her as she accepted PSRI before the dispute. She said she wasn\\\'t signing the new contract following the dispute and didn\'t do PRSI anymore and promptly charged me 85 euro for the clean and 85 euro for the filling. 170 euro altogether!!! I was so angry as I would not have let her go ahead with the filling if I had known she did not do PRSI anymore. Why didn\'t she inform me of this change from the beginning. I told her I will not be returning. So now I have to find a new dentist...|
|Anonymous Posted: 26/06/2003 11:24|
|I have an unsightly old silver filling in a visible top tooth and want it replaced with a crown (White). I have heard horror stories about the cost of this. Can someone advise a cost and practice in Dublin where they might recommend?|
|Anonymous Posted: 02/07/2003 10:10|
|I have very elongated teeth and a slight gap between the front two. I found a very courteous and thorough dentist in my locality. I visited him for a clean and polish, was charged even though I have full PRSI. However, he suggested that he could do some cosmetic surgery, bridging the gap, whitening the teeth, at a cost of €600. I would be interested in getting this done, however, I would also be interested in getting a price for a comparable treatment in Northern Ireland.|
|Anonymous Posted: 05/08/2003 23:02|
|i have been quoted 8,400euro for bridging work on my top teeth. that will result in 7 new teeth. I wonder if anyone can give me a comparison of what they were charged. I have recently paid the same dentist 1,300 euro to have a crown replaced and have root treatment on the same tooth, is that excessive? How difficult it is to make a decision on what to expect to pay and the likely outcome of a satisfactory result.|
|Anonymous Posted: 08/10/2003 12:23|
|I need root canal treatment on an upper molar and possibly on one or two other teeth. The price I have been quoted by a South-Dublin based dentist was 1600-2000 per tooth. Is this excessive? It certainly sounds so. I've rung around to other dentists but no-one will give me a quote over the phone. I've already spent 100 on two 20 minute consultations with this dentist. Any advice would be appreciated.|
|Anonymous Posted: 08/10/2003 17:09|
|If you pay PRSI you are entitled to one free check up per year and one free dental cleaning job. You are also entitled to money off fillings etc. I believe that the dentists have sorted out their problems concerning the PRSI situation. However, if you are concerned you can ring up the dental benefit section at Locall 1890 400 400 ext 4480 and check if your dentist is complying or not. A friend of mine in work went to her dentist in Dublin who told her she needed a cleaning job done. She assumed it was the usual free clean she gets once a year until he told her it would cost 75 for it as it was some kind of extra special cleaning procedure. So, she told him that no, the ordinary joe soap clean would do nicely. It would seem that these dentists would rip you off in a second. By the way, I also know people who had work done up the north and who had no problems at all.|
|Anonymous Posted: 05/02/2005 11:42|
|My husband needs to have some major work done including 4-6 implants plus brige work and crowning. In the past he has gone up North. However implants are a relatively new departure for us and he apparently has reduced bone density in his lr jaw. Can anyone recommend where we start. Obviously we are looking for bast and safe practice, but find it difficult to find out information. please help|
|jenniifer(XHL24758) Posted: 21/02/2005 16:33|
|i would like if somebody could tell me the cost of a front tooth crown in nothern ireland... i have jus bn quoted by my dentist in dublin it wud cost me 740 is this resonable or would i benifit to look around up in nothern ireland????|
|Anonymous Posted: 09/04/2005 23:08|
|Recently dentist referred me to dental hygienist for cleaning. I would think my teeth are fairly ok. However I think I am being taken to the cleaners. 60 (half hour session) to clean bottom row and then top row divided into two sessions (60 per session with anesthetic. Grand total 180. Have I lost touch with prices, I think I'm being taken for a ride.|
|Anonymous Posted: 12/04/2005 20:21|
|to jennifer enquiring about price for crown. I was quoted 350 pounds in Northern Ire, that is around 515 euro.|
|Joe(EXU29334) Posted: 27/05/2005 15:56|
|Had a root canal treatment done approx 5 years ago. Tooth cracked and have bee told that an implant would be the best solution. Dentist suggested it would cost approx. 2,000 and made an appointment to see specialist. He charged me 100 for 5 a second look (liteally) and upped the cost to 3,000. If anyone could recomend a good dentist in the North i'd be grateful. (Kayak1@eircom.net)|
|Mairead(MUM29917) Posted: 10/06/2005 14:11|
|Hi! My my Mum wants needs to get some crown and bridging work done and was quoted about 750 euros a pop, does anyone know if it is cheaper in Northern Ireland to get it done? I was also looking into going to Hungary to get it done as it\'s supposed to be so much cheaper there too. Does anyone have any reports on that? Is it worth it? Would we be just as well off to go to NI?|
|Gary(TTK30494) Posted: 22/06/2005 20:42|
|I need to urgently get a wisdom tooth removed, i have been to several dentists who have all claimed that the tooth can not be removed by hand and would need to be operated on. I am waiting almost 7 years to hear back from the dental hospital re this matter. Is there anywhere north of the border that you can recommend?|
|Anonymous Posted: 28/06/2005 17:12|
|I have had dental surgery in Budapest. Quoted 9000 in Ireland. Saved 6,500 as well as having a free holiday. Enough for a deposit on an apartment in Budapest!|
|m(mnflong) Posted: 29/06/2005 17:10|
|Want to know about dental treatment in Budapest? Email me. firstname.lastname@example.org|
|Joe(EXU29334) Posted: 05/07/2005 18:28|
|Can anyone recommend a source (either web based or contact numbers)for finding the names of good dentists in the north or abroad. I have found it difficult to find any wortwhile information anywhere. Please send to Kayak1@eircom.net|
|Anonymous Posted: 25/07/2005 17:07|
|I recently went to my dentist in Limerick for a check up I don't qualify for PRSI coverage. She requested that I need an X-ray and charged me 70 euro.. eekk.. apparently I need 4 fillings & wants to charge me 70-80 euro each.. does anyone know of a cheaper dentist in the area.. feel like I'm being ripped off.. oh and why didn't she tell me the price of the X-ray before doing it.. she made is sound like it was covered in my check up fee & like she was doing me a favour! Why don't dentists display their prices?!|
|Anonymous Posted: 08/08/2005 09:53|
|I need to get one wisdom tooth removed. I have a medical card, but will have to wait nearly two years to receive treatment. I decided to get health insurance, because I can't afford to 800 euros which I have been quoted. Im a mature student, so money is tight. Is there way I can find a dentist that is covered by my insurance. When I rang my insurance company they couldn't give me out that information about dentist covered by their company. Or could anyone recommend a dentist that is cheaper? Thank you..|
|Anonymous Posted: 01/09/2005 21:42|
|If you would like to get top Quality treatment and save money,go to Budapest for dental treatment.I just got back,they did an excellent job!I can recommend it to anyone.you can visit them on:www.europa-dental.com|
|JDDDD Posted: 19/09/2005 17:13|
|There is a great site which has compiled from public submissions, a list of high, average and low prices of various dental treatments in the UK. This should help people decide to protest with their feet against exorbitant RoI charges. http://www.whatprice.co.uk/health/dentist.php|
|marie(QTK34795) Posted: 20/09/2005 09:00|
|I lost a filling from a loose back tooth recently. The dentist here in Dubliun refused to remove the tooth and charged me 140euro for a temporary filling. The pain afterwards was dreadful and less than a week later the tooth had to be removed at a further cost of 45euro. I then got an infection and decided to go to Newry to see a dentist there to get a second opinion. The dentist in Newry treated the infection and took an x ray. He said I should have been charged a max of 50euro for the temporary filling. He refused to charge me anything as I had been ripped off so much here in the republic. Guess who I will be recommend to my family and friends! The journey time from Dublin Airport to Newry is 1hour 15minutes just slightly longer than it would take to go to the city centre and the shopping is great in Newry.|
|Anonymous Posted: 20/09/2005 11:55|
|I am a tv researcher and am looking into the high cost of dentist in Ireland. Looking for people with stories who have travelled abroad or up north to come forward with their stories. If anyone is interested in telling their story they can email me at email@example.com with their contact details and story, Thank you|
|Anonymous Posted: 20/09/2005 12:30|
|Just like anonymous.....I have just got back from Budapest where I had excellent cheap dental treatment arranged for me through www.budapestdentists.com|
|Anonymous Posted: 22/09/2005 09:38|
|I had 4 porcelain veneers done in Newry a few weeks ago. 2 visits, total cost of 1050 or 170 sterling per veneer. Very happy with the results & service. I was quoted 600 & 550 per veneer from dentists in Dublin. And you can claim tax back for dental treatment in the North as well as in the republic. If you need extensive dental treatment like this, it's well worth the trip|
|Anonymous Posted: 23/09/2005 11:28|
|My Daugther is to get tracks on her teeth they need to be done soon anyone any info on NI or Dublin that they would recommend that had carried out a good job! & was resonably priced? Pls wb to firstname.lastname@example.org|
|Tess Posted: 21/10/2005 11:56|
|Dear Marie, can you email me the name and address of the dentist in newry to rocheterry at hotmail.com|
|Tess Posted: 21/10/2005 12:07|
|I found this website today, while trying to compare dental prices, which I now understand is impossible. What I do know is that I angrily refuse to hand over 700 to 1000 euros for a new crown. help!|
|Anonymous Posted: 21/10/2005 15:56|
|ForTess. info available email email@example.com|
|Lisa Posted: 08/11/2005 14:40|
|Hi Marie, I would really appreciate it if you could send me the details of the dentist you went to in Newry as well. My younger brother has been quoted 4,500 for crowns in the ROI and I am sure he could save money by going to Northern Ireland to get the treatment done. Thanks a million!|
|Lisa Posted: 08/11/2005 14:46|
|Sorry Marie, forgot to put the mail address - LisaCuteboots@yahoo.co.uk Thanks again in advance|
|Anonymous Posted: 08/11/2005 14:52|
|http://www.askaboutmoney.com/showthread.php?t=16718 for advise on dentists up north|
|Lisa Posted: 08/11/2005 14:59|
|Sorry Marie, forgot to leave my email address for the dentist's details. If you could please mail them to firstname.lastname@example.org|
|Anonymous Posted: 28/11/2005 22:46|
|Hi there Please can some advise on how much tooth whitening is in Dublin practices on average|
|kildare Posted: 08/12/2005 00:08|
|visited dentist today 30 for consultation 30 for x-ray all very reasonable you might think until.... 28 to write a prescription! I also need root canal treatment on a molar - newry here I come|
|Tony Posted: 08/02/2006 11:00|
|currently living up North. Had some crowns done in UK some years ago and had them replaced - while on free dental some years later. Roots split and now have to get implants. Have been quoted approx £1,500 each ? Also have been told will have to get some animal bone implanted or some of my own bone implanted for procedure ? does anyone have more info please ? cheers.|
|ciara Posted: 19/02/2006 19:59|
|HI MARIE CUD U PLZ EMAIL ME THE INFO ON THE DENTIST IN NEWRY. AS I AM VERY INTERESTED IN GETTIN VENEERS THIS YEAR. email@example.com|
|Anonymous Posted: 27/02/2006 21:30|
|My daughter who is a student has been quoted six to seven hundred euro for a root canal can anyone tell if she can have it done cheper in northern Ireland and if so where|
|Anonymous Posted: 27/02/2006 21:38|
|Forgot to give my email address firstname.lastname@example.org re:to above message My daughter who is a student has been quoted six to seven hundred euros to have a root canal does anyone know if she can have it done cheaper in Northern Ireland and if so where.|
|Anonymous Posted: 09/03/2006 13:37|
|HI MARIE CUD U PLZ EMAIL ME THE INFO ON THE DENTIST IN NEWRY TOO PLEASE? FITZ_KAREN12@HOTMAIL.COM|
|stephen(SRC44549) Posted: 31/03/2006 10:29|
|Hi Marie, Could you please email me name and number of dentist in Newry as I have an emergency and I would be so grateful. Email address is email@example.com Thanks you so much|
|Anonymous Posted: 11/04/2006 15:31|
|Hi Marie, could you please email me the name and number of your dentist in Newry too, thanks. Have just been quoted 900 for root canal on 1 tooth, and 80 for a consultation. My e-mail address is firstname.lastname@example.org. Thanks Marie.|
|M(OUM45679) Posted: 21/04/2006 23:23|
|Hi, does anyone have a name for the dentist Marie went to in Newry. If you do, can you please email email@example.com|
|carefully Posted: 23/04/2006 00:48|
|just to let you know my mum went to newry and in the end things didnt turn out as planed and ended up in a lot of pain and paying a denit here too sort it out|
|ceramix Posted: 08/05/2006 16:46|
|just had a look at the budapest site (europe-dental.com)....i wish I could have charged these prices when working in Germany as a technician!!!|
|Anonymous Posted: 25/05/2006 14:25|
|I've just had an esitmate price given on a root canal treatment and crown on a back tooth. 1,400 euro !!!! does anyone know of a cheaper option. I live in Galway|
|Roisin(MNM45147) Posted: 31/05/2006 12:12|
|Hi, Have to get root canal and crown on tooth on second tooth from back, top teeth. Have been quoted 750 - 795 for root canal by specialist and crown to be done afterwards by own dentist, not sure how much yet. Was referred to specialist by my dentist but if u want more info, let me know by posting back here. Roisin|
|dmac Posted: 01/06/2006 15:46|
|I'm working in hungary for a few weeks and while i'm out here i decided to go for a check up, the dentist i went to is 40km south of budapest, it turns out i need a filling and a root canal, got the filling yesterday, great dentist stopped occasionally to give me a mirror to explain what he was doing, anyhow got a white filling which cost 36 euro, check up is free, x ray is free, going back in two weeks for the root canal, which will cost 80 euro, would recommend travelling here for dental work|
|rs Posted: 01/06/2006 20:25|
|Does anyone have the names and phone numbers of tried and tested dentists in the North, preferably Newry? Thanks|
|Shazd Posted: 02/06/2006 09:48|
|Hi can anyone tell me roughly how much 4 root canals 2 crowns and a 1 tooth bridge all back teeth will cost down south. And how many visits it would take start to finish. My appointment is not for 5 weeks here so thinking of heading North.|
|rosiefitz Posted: 23/06/2006 16:07|
|is there a fixed set of dental charges for the roi anywhere to view. i need two front teeth replaced and am dreading the expense.|
|Daz Posted: 15/08/2006 14:11|
|Dmac what are the contact details for the clinic in hungary? Also has anyone here had lingual braces put on in Europe and had aftercare in UK? email me on firstname.lastname@example.org|
|Anonymous Posted: 21/08/2006 14:40|
|Could anyone please reccomment a dentist in Newry as need to get 3 crowns and cant afford Dublin Charges. Email me at email@example.com Thanks|
|Anonymous Posted: 04/02/2007 19:06|
|i need to get my two front teeth capped,can anyone give me an estimate on how much it would cost?|
|Anonymous Posted: 18/02/2007 19:41|
|As a dentist who has worked and owned a practice in the UK, I must say that it is time that the media approached the subject of dental fees in a mature and rational way. Dentistry, like any other service, has a range in quality and that is determined by the level of investment in staff, equipment, education, materials etc. No one expects to go to a good restaurant and get food for McDonalds prices. Irish dental labs have only one standard for work (ie. the best) but UK labs have three to four standards and a crown can cost from 75 to 300+ . I could cut my fee for a crown by 150 and increase my profit by 50 if used one or two star crowns ... is that what I should give my patients? Cheaper materials and restorations have a shorter life expectancy and every time a restoration is replaced more tooth is lost and the chance of root treatment or loss increases. Therefore get it done properly the first time. Staff costs are 50% and rents/property 50-75% lower in the north. Add to that insurance costs, ESB, postage, phone, servicing charges etc, that are significantly higher. With overheads at up to 80% of turnover is it surprising that costs here are higher? What I find curious is when I look at UK mainland dental web sites the costs are frequently similar to here and sometime higher. So considering that their operating costs are much lower than here the profit margin is much greater. I see many comparisons about the cost of root treatments. The way to make these cheaper is to do them quicker but that does not add up to proper treatment! Once a root canal is prepared it must have a minimum of 40 minutes exposure to sodium hypochlorite to clean the canal so it is impossible to do a root canal in less than one hour. In teeth with multiple canals the whole treatment is relatively shorter per canal, because canals can be irrigated together, but a molar is still going to take 90 to 120 minutes. Please beware of dental tourism. Find the letter from Prof O\'Connell of Cork Dental School in The Irish Times about two or three months ago. A person who went to Eastern Europe was destroyed! What you can do is look at the standard of the practice, quality of staff, level of equipment, ask to see the lab bill, is rubber dam used for root treatments and white fillings in the back of the mouth, what courses and post graduate training has the dentist and their staff. Usually the longer it take to do something the higher the quality. BBC did a programme some years ago where they asked the opinion of a highly respected London Professor if it was feasible to do a crown in twenty minutes. This is the maximum time to make a profitable crown (with one star crown from the lab) under the National Health at that time ..... he said it was impossible. If you spend most of your time doing twenty minute NHS crowns how long do you spend on a private crown? In the NHS the standard required was acceptable that is not gold standard, and this explains why studies of NHS dental work show a much lower life expectancy than academic studies. A crown should take on average a minimum of an hour and a half over two appointments. There are good dentists everywhere but the the national standards vary and this is usually determined by the funding by national dental insurance schemes and level of private pratice. In the UK as NHS dentistry declines and private practice grows the amount of postgraduate courses grows exponentially. I hope this provokes some thoughts and we can start to realise that the story behind dental costs is not as simple as it seems. I love my job and have invested very very heavily in the practice and being at the cutting edge, but it is only by having a big team and getting economies of scale can I stay in the average price bracket! (Why should I charge average fees? because the public do not understand the quality/cost ratio) Now I need to move premises to rent will cost 45,000 +rates/ year and 150,000 to move or build at at least 1,000,000. With 80% overheads currently and no property costs how can I move? I make 20 on a filling so it will take 2,250 each year to pay the rent!! So do I close the door on 400,000 worth of equipment and declare myself bankrupt after paying redundancies. God don\'t those dentists have it easy!!!!|
|Anonymous Posted: 20/02/2007 15:24|
|Looking for a dentist in Limerick who will do white fillings on back teeth on the medical card. I have heard some dentists stilll do this. Any recommendations?|
|Mary(BSR55603) Posted: 07/03/2007 14:37|
|I need the name of a good dentist in Newry. I need inplants and other dental treatment Thank you|
|Anonymous Posted: 04/04/2007 16:50|
|I am very sorry for you all who live in the south and have higher dental charges but you do get other things that we dont... just look at the benefits you get as you get older I live in newry and cant find a dentist as they have too many patients, please stop coming up here or you are going to push the prices up on us who live here. You cannot keep coming up here for the cream your overall care is better then or at lease on par with ours, so please go away and leave our dentists alone. and after reading some of the comments above im tempted to come from the north to the south to pay for a higher quality as i must admit having been to several dentists in the uk over the past 3 yrs my teeth are a mess and the amount of times I have to have fillings replaced as they have come out is amazing|
|mrs t Posted: 14/04/2007 14:10|
|hi all its terrible wen ur embarrased to smile ;( anyone else feel same..ive 6teeth on top together in the front t/god.wat kind of work can b done will it cost the earth|
|Gerry(AJR61402) Posted: 27/04/2007 02:44|
|Hey all, myself and my wife have recently had some fairly extensive dental work done in India (20+ implants) The standard of work done in the surgery i visited was excellent and was completely pain free. We also got to experience India, which has always been a dream of ours. The price was extremely reasonable, even considering the 5 star hotel we stayed in during our treatment. We were quoted around 45,000 for the work in Ireland. The whole Indian trip including flights cost us just under 15,000. Fantastic value i think. India might be a bit far to go for a simple filling, but if you are looking at getting a couple of crowns it might be worth your while checking out the price. Everything was arranged for us by their agent here in Ireland who can be contacted at firstname.lastname@example.org. I'm sure Irish dentists will not be too pleased to hear about this :)|
|ruby Posted: 24/05/2007 14:44|
|I need to get a root canal and a crown done, was quoted about 800, does anyone know how much the root canal costs itself and how long would you need to wait to get crown done? thanks|
|Anonymous Posted: 04/07/2007 12:14|
|I m wondering if anyone had recent dental work done in Poland and would they recommend it?|
|Ela Posted: 05/07/2007 12:13|
|I'm from Poland and I just want to reply the only dentist who dared to write sth here. Generally I agree with you. But... how I hate stereotypes! First, you are doing your best to explain why the dental fees in the North are lower than in Dublin, then you advise not to go for a treatment to Eastern Europe because... because it is impossible that a high quality dental treatment costs so little? Please, apply the rule you are explaining so thoroughly to all fairly. I don't even intend to prove that the education in Western and Eastern counties is the same (anybody who has experience in the subject knows that sometimes it's even better here). Believe me, most of private Polish dentists use the materials you described as the best (by the way, my friend who is a dentist is saying that exposure to sodium hypochlorite to clean the canal is an old method now) and also the time they dedicate to a patient is long enough. And the story of a person 'destroyed' in Eastern Europe is not a research to conclude from. Read through discussion here, you'll find more people destroyed in Ireland or UK. I know personally many satisfied patients who came to Poland and Hungary for treatment from UK and Ireland. Anyway, check the dentist - that I agree with, but please, beware of all dentists, not only those from abroad.|
|louise Posted: 23/08/2007 15:02|
|At present I am suffering with tooth problems. I need to get at least two teeth out, but very short of money as I have a young daughter and one social welfare. Would anybody know of a good dentist in Limerick that isn't very expensive.|
|Maggo Posted: 18/10/2007 08:35|
|Has anyone any idea how much partial dentures cost?|
|Pearldental Posted: 06/02/2008 22:44|
|Just for consideration... How many of you ladies out there shop around for the cheapest hairdresser you can find for a cut and colour in a 100 mile radius? If my wife, sister and in-laws are anything to go by, not many. If you won't trust a cheap hairdresser, who can only do temporary damage, why would you trust a complete stranger with your teeth, which can potentially be ruined long-term. If you must travel, get reputable recommendations, and be prepared to travel on a regular basis, as most dentists will not stand over somebody else's work if it proves to be sub-standard. Complex restorative dental work should be professionally maintained at least twice yearly, and sometimes more. A complex treatment plan should NEVER finish, but should include an appropriate maintenance regime for ongoing success. Incidentally, in my experience, getting financial recompense for failed work from a different jurisdiction is very difficult. Be very sure before you go.|
|Pearldental Posted: 20/02/2008 19:35|
|Quick one this. Had a new patient in today, who had veneers prepared and fitted in Boston, U.S. about 3 years ago Patient is 30ish female, smart and successful, and had work in Boston as friend lives there and her own Irish dentist at the time did not do veneers. Cost around $4000 for the 8 veneers at the time, which is comparable to cost here. On examination the veneers are very poorly fitting, not great aesthetically, and terribly finished around the margins, leading to swollen and bleeding gums persistently. Not sure yet if we can modify them enough to keep them, but we'll be trying. If not, we have to start again from the beginning. Moral of the story: Even if you're travelling for dental work without it being purely a cost based decision, you really need to be very sure that the dentist you see is sufficiently skilled and diligent to provide the end result that you're looking for. Fixing these things is not a pleasant task for anyone.|
|sunflower1975 Posted: 01/04/2008 15:10|
|I am from Nova Scotia,Canada and i am trying to find a reasonably priced dentist.If anyone has travelled far away and had a good experience please email me at email@example.com.I am looking to get 4 implants and maybe something done with two teeth in the front.My teeth in front are nice and white and clean but i don't like the shape of them.Any help will be greatly appreciated.Where i live you can't walk out of a dentist office without paying less than 150.00 and that's not even having any work done.Thats just the visit and xrays and all the other crap they do to suck money out of you before they work on your teeth.|
|Pearldental Posted: 01/04/2008 21:50|
|Hi Sunflower1975, with comments like that you deserve whatever you get. I generally try to give constructive help to those looking for dental treatment, as I don't care where it's done, as long as it's done right, but if price is your only concern, the cheapest places are usually Romania or Poland, and for you, that's probably the best place to go, as x-rays, gum health and other such crap are obviously the invention of the greedy dentist and provide no benefit to anyone except us. If you ring around I'm sure you'll find someone who is happy to place crowns, veneers or implants with no preoperative x-rays and with no attempt to ensure optimum oral health first, but please ensure you pass on their details as at least I can ensure that we try to prevent anyone who is serious about oral health, rather than cost, from heading there. If you see sense and do your research properly first, you may reconsider your comments and find other criteria to look for before travelling. Good luck!|
|sunflower1975 Posted: 02/04/2008 17:13|
|This is to Pearldental..you don't know my situation here and what and all i am referring to in my post so just mind your business.I asked if anyone knew of any REASONABLY PRICED dentists that they had a good expeience with.Won't find that around here.If the dentist prices wern't so outrageous here then i guess nobody would be here looking.|
|Pearldental Posted: 03/04/2008 18:59|
|Hi Sunflower1975, the issue I have with your posting is the suggestion that dentists are only taking x-rays and such crap to suck money out of you. I have no problem with you looking for price comparisons here, there or anywhere, but before you do, I think you should be making sure that you are aware of what criteria you should be looking for. The main reason I post to these sites is because I see the real CRAP when things go wrong, and if a little advice helps people avoid some of these scenarios, then it is worth the effort. I am fully aware that there are dentists charging excessive fees for substandard work here, but there are also plenty charging lesser fees for unacceptable work elsewhere. You need to be able to select the appropriately skilled dentist before comparing prices. Almost every respected dentist worldwide would need a set of x-rays at your first visit, be they ones that you bring with you from a previous dentist, or a new set, and the only exception to this would be if your teeth and gums were so perfect that there could not possibly be any hidden decay, bone loss or pathology. It would also be accepted as international best practice that your teeth would need to be thoroughly cleaned before any restorative work begins, unless your oral hygiene and gum health is exceptional (which some are, but few.) These are the type of things you should be aware of before you head off anywhere, as they give an idea of the standard of the dentist to whom you are travelling. My apologies if my previous post was antagonistic, but I find it infuriating when it is suggested that all dentists are simply after your cash. Some of us also have a social conscience. By the way, 150 euro for a check up and x-rays is steep, and even if that includes cleaning, it's still above average by some degree.|
|CanadaDental Posted: 14/05/2008 22:38|
|Hi Sunflower, Pearldental.. I can understand both sides of this argument. However, I must say that it IS VERY POSSIBLE to find very high quality dentistry abroad, for a fraction of the cost that one pays in Canada. I know this because I have done it and made a small study of it. In my case, the dentist in Brazil was the only one concerned about the health implications by procedure I was having done (out of 7 Toronto-area dentists). In fairness to the Cdn dentists I met and paid for an assessment, their costs are higher and there is no governing body to cap or investigate price gauging. Prices are set by the dentist, leaving it up to them to be competitive. What I could not understand was the extreme discrepancy of quotes I received for almost the exact same procedure. This ranged from $24,000 - that dentist was a bonifide crook, I must say - before looking at my teeth he asked me what I did for a living. I asked how that question was relevant, he said that it was very relevant as the procedure was going to be expensive - imagine the arrogance!) to my dentist who quoted $7,000. I spent close to $500 for assessments and finally decided I couldn't afford the procedure. Speaking to a friend from Brazil, who reassured me that the care was as good, if not better there, I decided to go. I must say that the experience was wonderful. It was the first time that a dentist spent a lot of time making me feel comfortable and not rushed. He also dissuaded me from a procedure (that every dentist in Canada suggested) that would have netted him more money, because he was concerned about the health of those teeth. I was impressed and WILL return to Brazil for any treatment my family or I will require going fwd. The financial benefit was huge. Taking my cheapest Cdn quote as a comparison, my dental, travel (flight, meals, etc..) came to a TOTAL of $3000. Therefore, after an amazing trip, visiting the beaches and beautiful sites, I still came home saving $4000 ! I couldn't believe it. When I went to my Cdn dentist, they told me that the work was very well done. I am now very happy with my smile and feel great that I was able to also save so much money. Never once did I feel that the services were unprofessional or substandard. In fact, I prefer them to Canada - irrespective of price. Cheers!|
|Pearldental Posted: 04/06/2008 21:40|
|Hi Canadadental et al, congrats on the new teeth, and the savings! Please be assured that I am fully aware that decent dentistry can be found at cheaper prices in cheaper economies around the globe, and can be very successful, in which case I am always happy to maintain such work for it's longterm success. Where your story differs from most however is in the friend you already had on location. This gives you the advantage of being able to source a recommended dentist via someone who has experience of their basic standard of care, and not via someone who found a bargain. Many of these countries can charge 2 or 3 times their normal fees to tourists, and still be cheap, which is often an incentive to try to do as much as possible in as short a time as possible. Having a friend locally also makes it possible to gain some comeback if things don't work out as planned, which is very important if you're travelling for dental work. My experience of eastern Europe is that most dentists will respond very quickly before treatment, but will only offer replacement of poor work with themselves if they carry out the work again themselves. If they've messed up once, most people have no interest in going back again for another go! My reason for bringing this up again is a new patient who attended as an emergency last week. He was in Hungary for dental treatment in October 2007, and in just 2 weeks, had all the preparatory work, the impressions and fitting of a 10 tooth bridge in the upper jaw completed. It cost him around Euro 3000, which would be cheap compared to Irish prices. Unfortunately, the patient was probably not suitable for a bridge anyway, and if he was, I would estimate that it should have taken about 6 months from start to finish, as he has several underlying problems with the teeth holding the bridge. On presentation to myself, just 7 months after completion of the treatment: - he is only able to bite on 3 lower teeth, as the bite on the bridge is so far out that only 3 lower teeth hit it. - pushing on the gum above the bridge on one side produces a pus discharge, which I am sure you can all appreciate is not good. - one of the teeth under the middle part of the bridge is not attached to the bridge, and as a result is decaying at an alarming rate, and is probably beyond redemption. -he had no treatment to stabilise his gum problem before treatment, and the ill fitting bridge is therefore exacerbating this problem. -x-rays of the teeth under the bridge show at least 2 inadequate root treatments, and complete failure of the tooth from which pus is discharging, with this tooth now being beyond any redemption whatsoever. -large decayed cavities in at least 2 teeth which do not form part of the bridge (one of them so bad that it was extracted last week at the emergency visit). No-one should be placing bridges unless the mouth is fully healthy and stable first. As a result of the above, the patient is now in a position whereby even if he came and spent colossal sums of money with us, we would not be able to bring him to a state whereby a bridge would now be feasible, and if we did investigate the teeth under the bridge fully, I suspect that we would be removing at least 2 of them. He now has the option of a denture, massive expense, or hang on for as long as possible until we have to intervene. He is 33 years old. No-one in Hungary has yet returned his calls. This is not to say that there are not poor or unscrupulous dentists in Ireland, but at least we can achieve some recompense if we come across them. Canadadental, congrats again, as you obviously gained considerably from your travels. Unfortunately, some people lose on the gamble big time.|
|Judy Posted: 05/06/2008 17:13|
|Sunflower, under PRSI, examination and cleaning is FREE and the expensive for an x-ray is minimal. The dentist has in effect committed fraud and you are entitled to some comeback. If you went to the hygenist for cleaning, there is a charge however. I do go the hygenist as it is her speciality and she has more time to do it wheras the dentist is fitting it in between examinaton and treatment. But I do take on board Pearl's point - both about x-rays which are vital and about some companies abroad who cause real problems for patients. But Pearl answer me this, why is that 100 miles up the road in Belfast, you can get dental treatment to the exact same standards as here (not all dentists are as good as each other I accept that), with the same high-wage high-cost economy - but at 1/3 of the price. If that is not evidence that certain dentist here are ripping people off, I don't know what is. Funny enough I go to the cheapest hairdresser around, as does my mother but I WOULD NOT DREAM of going to dentist purely based on price. But, like Ruby, i WAS QUOTED 800 to get a perfectly servieable if not aesthetically pretty crown REPLACED. That's just a replacement not a root canal. I was very pleased with my dentist up to this but now I feel like he is on the make. Needless to add my dental insurance thru work will not cover the replacement at that price.|
|Pearldental Posted: 05/06/2008 22:23|
|Hi Judy, point taken, but let me clarify a few issues raised in your post. Firstly, you are correct that the hygienist is the most trained person for your regular dental cleaning, but if the dentist does not have one, he should NEVER be 'fitting' a clean in as a token gesture. A properly conscientious dentist will spend the 15- 30 mins required to clean teeth fully, and if any of you see a dentist who only cleans the front 6-8 teeth and gives them a polish, change dentist now and get your gums looked after properly. Gum disease is now the most common reason for tooth extraction, and in almost all cases is preventable if regular, thorough tooth cleaning is undertaken by you and the dentist/ hygienist. Secondly, the dental economy, (and wider economy I believe), in the North is not the same as in the Republic. As most N.I. dentists have to work under the NHS scheme to a greater or lesser degree, the base line for fees is drastically different, and the ability to practice dentistry to the highest standards as routine is hugely compromised. To give an example; a root treatment in a back tooth, which is a particular interest of mine, and a treatment in which I have considerable training and experience, as well as some rather expensive equipment, will take me a minimum of 2 hours to complete to the highest standard. Some may take up to 4 hours. In general, an NHS dentist gets around 30 minutes for the same procedure, and I know of none that would allow more than an hour. I can find you several of my patients that I have sent back to the North looking for refunds for previous inadequate work, and have several English patients treated under the NHS whose mouths are appalling, despite 6 monthly 'check-ups'. If you want specific stories, let me know and I'll post them on the site. The maximum an NHS dentist can receive for a crown under the scheme, is around £200. I regularly pay my laboratory more than that figure just to make the crown, and that's before I do anything. Even my cheapest lab fee for a crown would be 190, and any lab that carries out work for NHS dentists will have 2 standards of work, and 2 price lists. The materials and attention to detail in a £35 NHS crown are obviously not the same. I left the NHS in England 10 years ago purely on the basis that my standard of work was not of a quality that I was happy with. On my busiest NHS day, I had to see 54 patients between 8:30 and 5:00, including root treatments, fillings, crown preparations and more. In those time constraints, high quality work is impossible, even if you strive to achieve it, and the reason that most NHS dentists are leaving is because of their inability to practice 21st century dentistry. That does not mean that all N.I. dentists are of a lesser standard, or less conscientious, nor that all dentists in the South are practicing to international best standards, but for some in the North, a patient from the South represents a bonus pay day. I work with a couple of specialists from the North, one in Newry, one in Belfast and one in Derry. Their fees for implants were identical to mine in the South until currency changes recently, and most of the highly respected private dentists in the UK, have prices in line with those in Ireland. The same rule applies as for any other country, find a well recommended dentist in the North, working to the highest standards, and feel free to travel, but don't go (as you have indicated you wouldn't anyway), just on the cheap price. Thirdly, your crown, which is aesthetically substandard, can be replaced for less than 800, but it depends how fussy you want to be. Wherever you go to have it done, check that the dentist and lab can send each other photos of your teeth to help shade matching. Check that you have the option of metal free, 21st century materials such as LAVA or PROCERA. Check that you will have the chance to check the crown before fitting, and if not happy, will be able to have it sent back for better shade matching as many times as necessary. I have had to send a crown for a single front tooth back to the lab 7 times to get it perfect for a difficult case, and cannot offer that type of service for 400! I have even replaced crowns completely free of charge 1 month after fitting because the patient and I were'nt happy, and only last week refused to fit an implant bridge for a patient because I thought we could do better, even though she was happy! (She saw the reason why when we fitted the adjusted bridge today, which is far more natural). Finally, check that you have a minimum of 5 years guarantee on the crown, including lab and dentist fees. In simple terms, the fussier you want to be, the more you have to spend, and bear in mind that a good crown should last for around 20 years if well made and maintained, and you'll probably spend more in that time on haircuts than on your teeth, even if you do go to the cheapest hairdresser around! Finally, bear in mind that fees for crowns are tax deductable at your marginal rate, which narrows the difference considerably. Good luck with the new crown, wherever it's done, and let us know how you get on!|
|Judy Posted: 06/06/2008 10:25|
|Thanks for the reply Pearl! My dentist only spends about 10 minutes on cleaning to be honest. But I do go to the hygenist and she spends about 45 minutes and even checks the way I'm flossing to make sure I do it correctly at home! And I'm no spring chicken or anything. I realise that dentists in NI have to practise under the NHS but when seeing a southern patient, they would being seeing the patient privately so the NHS fee structure, would not apply. I know the NI fee structure keeps fees down for the NI patient - and keeps them from being ripped off by exhorbitant fees maybe but how does it compromise the dentists ability to practice dentistry to the highest standards as routine? Surely the duty of care to patients, as a first priority is to ensure highest standards of care. I had a root treatment on a pre-molar years ago (the one my current dentist is seeking to re-crown) and it took 45 and 30 minutes, for the two appointments but needed to be re-bonded twice, over 10 years ago. It basically fell out!! What do you mean - an NHS dentist "gets" around 30 minutes for the same procedure? Surely there is no-one standing over him with a stopwatch? Like a surgical procedure - if it's appropriate to compare the two. If it needs to take longer - then it takes longer. Other patients will have to wait - just as I would wait if their treatment took longer or the dentist will have to scheule more time between appointments, have less patients on their books or as my pevious dentists used to do if an unscheduled patient needed treatment - work late the odd time. Even from my own limited personal experience, I can't imagine a root canal being done in 30 minutes. I had a complicated filling take nearly that long for heavens sake! Oh gosh, I'm not asking for evidence, you are a specialist in the field and I believe you. But by the same token I have colleagues who went to dentists here whom they reckon had hardly seen teeth before, they were so apalling! But at least here you don't have the problem of having to travel abroad to have poor work put right but no one should have to put up with poor dental work - at home or abroad. I also have a colleague who goes home - to Turkey, for holidays and has his dental work done while he's there - rather than be treated here!! 200 to have a crown made here! I didn't know there was two standards of work at all. I don't think thats something most people realise. 54 patients in 8 hours (presumably you are not super man and you need your lunch and the odd coffee) sounds ludicrous. If I had 54 cases to deal with in a week - and I don't work in medicine at all, I'd be badly stretched and having serious words with my manager. But it brings me back to my point above - the dentist will have to scheule more time between appointments, have less patients on their books for any one period of time - or perhaps more to the point, have more dentist trained (to a high standard) to releive the pressure on existing dentists. Thanks a mill for all the informaiton on the crown. My current one is not the best, agreed but it is porcelain and was put in using a type of pin (which looked rather like a small woodscrew on the x-ray!) oringinally about 16 or 17 years ago. I know there wouldn't be any problem with shade matching and having it checked and changed with my current dentist and yes obviously you couldn't charge 400 for the type of service you provided in the case you describe. My current crown has darkened to an almost yellowy colour but its at the side so it's not very noticeable. What would I spend on haircuts in 20 years, at current prices - about 1600. Good comparison actually :-) Tax deduction brings the cost down by 20% - true. Maybe I could get it done at year end, and that way I could claim the tax back sooner, seeing as it's not an urgent matter. Thank you for your honesty, your advice and your interest. We could do with a lot more dentists like you.|
|Pearldental Posted: 07/06/2008 00:43|
|Hi Judy, just quick this one. When I say the dentist only 'gets' so much time per procedure, the time is dictated by the fee provided. A dental practice is very costly to run, and if a procedure pays 100, overheads run at about 120 per hour, and you spend an hour doing it, you obviously lose money. This is why many conscientious dentists either leave the NHS or try to minimise their NHS involvement so that they can subsidise the NHS patients via private fees. When I worked on the NHS, to achieve the recommended earnings set by the NHS, we were allocated 6 minutes for a filling, about 25 minutes for a root canal, and something like 5 minutes for a check-up, scale and polish! And that includes the time taken to get the patient from the waiting room to the surgery and out again! If you have to work to this standard most of the time, my experience is that it is then very hard to suddenly produce exceptional work when someone is willing to pay for it. 'Always practice best practice' is the motto of most of the most respected dentists internationally, as it's too easy to compromise the good stuff if you're used to cutting corners in your everyday work. As for dentists in the South, some good, some bad, some hopeless, some scoundrels. I have sent patients back to their old dentists in the South for refunds as well when work has been sub-standard, but getting the refund is much easier close to home! Like all professions, find a good one and stay there, and if you're not happy, change! Cheers,|
|Judy Posted: 09/06/2008 10:39|
|I see what you mean now Pearl. Thanks.|
|gez Posted: 19/01/2009 19:06|
i have an intense fear of the dentist(as do many) & haven't been for 6 yrs.finally i went after breaking a side tooth eating a hard sweet.i have my 1st ever medical card so i got 8 fillings & have 2 extractions to go yet but today my dentist advised me that the tooth i'd broken (which is a front side tooth)needed root canal & a crown costing 350euro which isn't covered by the medical card.
but on the hse website they state root canal is free with a medical card.who is right?can anyone help with this?
|Pearldental Posted: 20/01/2009 14:04|
Hi Gez, Root canal is only covered for the front 6 teeth, unless you can get a referral to one of the HSE clinics, which is unusual, to have the procedure undertaken. All other teeth are not covered, and your only options then are to pay or lose the tooth. Unfortunately the regulations are extremely rigid, so we have no way around them.
If you can keep the tooth, do so, but you are covered for a denture with the medical card if you do have to lose it.
Good luck, P
|Anonymous Posted: 20/01/2009 15:40|
Hi Pearl. looked with interest at your last post. I take it you mean the 6 top and 6 bottom front teeth, ie. not molar and non-pre-molar
|Pearldental Posted: 20/01/2009 17:58|
That would be correct. I am not registered as GMS dentist, but have previous experience working with them. Premolars and molars are not covered, but Root treatment on these teeth does qualify for tax relief, and will also be partially covered by your PRSI contributions if you qualify for dental benefit.
Hope that helps,
|tjeerd Posted: 18/03/2009 22:05|
I have read this forum in great interest. I have travelled to different countries but was absolutely shocked this morning when leaving the dentist here in co. Dublin. I was in the chair for just over an hour and had the following: 1 check up, 1 x-ray, 1 x Filling and cleaning of my teeth. Total costs was €250, Which I thought was pricy but nothing compared to the crown that I need. Total costs of €900 plus need one more filling of approx €120. So in total I need to spend €1300 within a month to look after my teeth. In your opiniun would you qualify this dentist as expensive here in Ireland as I am considering to go back home (Holland or my wifes home is Spain) to get these repairs done at a cheaper price and make it a holiday at the same time for almost the same price.
|Pearldental Posted: 19/03/2009 13:38|
That sounds a little pricey, although not particularly excessive compared to some fees being charged here. The cost of the crown is a little higher than I would expect, but this may vary depending on the type of crown to be used, the aesthetic requirements and any foundation work required as part of the process, so I would not be too judgemental without seeing the case first.
If you have a reliable dentist back home, particularly if you have a previous history with him/her, I would have no issue with you travelling back to them for the work if it is much cheaper, as problems tend to arise when travelling to someone you don't know at all, and who is attempting to fit as much work as possible into as short a timeframe as possible, knowing that you're probably not heading back, even if things go wrong.
Check what type of warranty the dentist gives with the crown and fillings, and check that out with the dentist back home as well, and as long as the work is done to an acceptable standard, with the option of comeback if necessary, I have no issue with you travelling for treatment in a case like yours.
Hope that helps,
|Clairee Posted: 24/03/2009 20:43|
Can someone email me the email address for the South Down Medical clinic? I have to go there for root canal treatment. Many thanks. Claire Claire.firstname.lastname@example.org
|karenl Posted: 16/04/2009 07:59|
Wondering if anyone could help me. I was recently told I need 3 implants costing in the region of 6,000 to 7,000 euro. I am shocked. They are my back 3 teeth and two would show if I smile. If I got them root canaled and crowned the cost is similar. I had no idea that my teeth had deterioted as they look perfect but I keep getting infections and x ray revealed vertical cracks. I don't know how all this happened as I take great care of my teeth but perhaps after 3 babies this is the outcome. I'm wondering if anyone knows the cost for sure of a dentist in the north. please send any replies to email@example.com
|Anonymous Posted: 16/04/2009 14:31|
Really Karen in this day and age there is absolutely no reason why having children shoudl result in dental deterioration or damage provided you take care of your teeth throughtoutt the pregnancy, havign the treatment that you need and vitally have a diet very rish in calcium and Vit D to prevent the pregnancy resulting in calcium loss. With regard to the fracture,s these can happen folowing root canal and crowning too that's not 100% absolute but can also be the result or weak teeth or indeed years of grinding your teeth or an accident, I understand. If it were me tho , I would get a second opinion.
|NewLu Posted: 09/07/2009 17:08|
Hi, my name is Louise & i've just returned from Budapest from having all my dental work done there. I HONESTLY cannot believe i've done it (& no one else can either) A trip to the dentist is (has) always been my biggest fear. I've been asked here in Ireland to leave the dentist & told i was acting like a baby, embarrassing.... I'm a 41 year old & have wanted to have my dental work done for ages but the fear & Irish prices has always put me off. I have researched dental treatment here & abroad for the last 6 months, believe me i am very, very fussy & am a perfectionist!!! For all the work i had done, i was quoted between 17K & 19K her in Ireland & N. Ireland, anyway after a mind boggling research Hungary won my trust. I went & had all my work done - removal or 2x3 unit bridges (21 years old & needed changing) 1x4 unit bridge, 2 crowns - all of which were Zeno Zirconium crowns, very natural looking, it's worth to pay the extra for these for front teeth (i think) rather than porcelain fused to metal, I also had 3 root canal, 1 post & removal of black fillings & replaced with White a Filling, all cleaned & polished - the cost €4,995. I am (was) a very very nervous patient so i had to have relaxing medication before each treatment (supplied by the dentist) This is the first time in my life i have a good word to say about any dentist.... but it was the patience, kind understanding, skill & perfection of this dentist that made ALL the difference to my treatment.... They (clinic staff) were all very nice, efficent & all spoke perfect English. I will travel to them every year for my checkups & if any of you would like any info / advice / details please do not hesitate to contact me on firstname.lastname@example.org. Honestly i am 110% pleased with the quality & treatment & that coming from me is good!! Good luck & please don't be put at the thoughts of dental treatment abroad, it's top quality!!
Hi, my name is Louise & i've just returned from Budapest from having all my dental work done there. I HONESTLY cannot believe i've done it (& no one else can either) A trip to the dentist is (has) always been my biggest fear. I've been asked here in Ireland to leave the dentist & told i was acting like a baby, embarrassing.... I'm a 41 year old & have wanted to have my dental work done for ages but the fear & Irish prices has always put me off. I have researched dental treatment here & abroad for the last 6 months, believe me i am very, very fussy & am a perfectionist!!! For all the work i had done, i was quoted between 17K & 19K her in Ireland & N. Ireland, anyway after a mind boggling research Hungary won my trust. I went & had all my work done - removal or 2x3 unit bridges (21 years old & needed changing) 1x4 unit bridge, 2 crowns - all of which were Zeno Zirconium crowns, very natural looking, it's worth to pay the extra for these for front teeth (i think) rather than porcelain fused to metal, I also had 3 root canal, 1 post & removal of black fillings & replaced with White a Filling, all cleaned & polished - the cost €4,995. I am (was) a very very nervous patient so i had to have relaxing medication before each treatment (supplied by the dentist) This is the first time in my life i have a good word to say about any dentist.... but it was the patience, kind understanding, skill & perfection of this dentist that made ALL the difference to my treatment.... They (clinic staff) were all very nice, efficent & all spoke perfect English. I will travel to them every year for my checkups & if any of you would like any info / advice / details please do not hesitate to contact me on email@example.com.
Honestly i am 110% pleased with the quality & treatment & that coming from me is good!! Good luck & please don't be put at the thoughts of dental treatment abroad, it's top quality!!
|wexgirl Posted: 04/08/2009 16:20|
hi there. can anyone recommend a good dentist in the North? i have to get a crown replaced and have been told by my dentist that it will cost €700. would appreciate the help. and any info on braces too. my son needs them.i can be contacted on firstname.lastname@example.org
thanks a lot
|gingerhead Posted: 15/09/2009 20:10|
I tried to email you at that address but it failed. Is it the right email address? I would like some more information about dentists in Budapest.
|Getting grumpy Posted: 22/11/2010 18:28|
Hi, I have just returned from the local dentist in West Cork. The filling on an "eye tooth", which was done by the same dentist within the last 12 months, had come out. The tooth was refilled, I was in the chair for less than 15 minutes, didn't have an injection and the cost was €75. Is this excessive?
Regards, Getting Grumpy.
|Anonymous Posted: 23/11/2010 09:39|
You didnlt have an aneasthetic ? For a filling ? ? ?
Are you SERIOUS?
|Pearldental Posted: 23/11/2010 09:52|
As a dentist, I would consider charging someone for the same treatment twice in 12 months as excessive, irrespective of the type of treatment undertaken. there are exceptions, but these should be flagged up at the start, as certain fillings are likely to be a problem if your bite is very heavy, or the anchorage for the filling is minimal. These problems can all be surmounted, but may require a different approach, in which case I would generally reduce the fee for the second treatment by the cost of the first, so you still only pay once overall.
In general, I would guarantee all fillings for 12 months minimum, unless otherwise advised, and all crowns/ veneers/ bridges and implants for 5 years minimum, again unless otherwise advised.
As there is no definitive guideline as to treatment guarantees, the only way to find out the policy for your own dentist is to ask.
Hope that helps,
|Getting grumpy Posted: 23/11/2010 16:47|
Hi Anonymous and Pearldental,
I didn't have an injection because I suggested that the filling be done without one ( I feel much better without a numb face afterwards) and the dentist would give me one, during the procedure, if I was in pain.
Pearldental, Thanks, your reply is very helpful. €300 per hour is good money by any standards isn't it.
Getting grumpy (Gerry).
|Jamie Posted: 25/11/2010 08:10|
This doesn't make irish dentists look good. So, we all know it's cheaper up north, a government watchdog done independent surveys and found it was 10%-50% cheaper, the same results on the poll on this site. I knew before I even read this article that the Irish Dentist Association or what ever lobby group represents dentists in Ireland would try and say that the quality of work down here is much better. Of course they would say this with absoultly zero evidence. They definitely havent given the customer a reason to stay in the Republic and not head up north. If you're fairly well off and can't be bothered to travel fair enough, but I would definitely be heading across the border to get anything done.
|iknow.imgood Posted: 26/11/2010 12:55|
I absolutely agree with you. I go up north for everything and to date, it has saved me thousands. I am currently 7 months in to getting braces and its going great. I was quoted 4500-6500 for the same braces down here and i paid 2600 euro for the same job up north. I go back up every 6-8 weeks for tightenings, band changes etc and its been so straightforward. I havent had any problems and this has obviously made things easier for me. I have to say the charges of certain professions in this country (legal, dentist, doctors) are scandalous and hopefully our looming budget may address this. They are so prohibitively expensive, the state of the nations teeth reflects this. Its a pity because the country is losing custom to the north and abroad, all because of greed and a sense of entitlement amongst these professions (some people,not all!). Thanks 'Pearldental' for your advice a while back-your words of encouragement convinced me to get the braces in the first place!
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