I would like to know how can a doctor determine if you have the swine flu as opposed to the ordinary flu.  The symptoms are really much the same.  Is there any key difference? If this swine flu gets worse how will we really know who has been in contact with the swine flu or not?

Hi my Dad has pulmonary fibrosis and his breathing is very bad at the moment, oxygen 16 hrs a day, neublizer 4 times and another liquid for neublizer three times a day. What precautions can I take to insure he keeps away from swine flu as reading everything  that is written is so confusing???

this is scary, i have a student in the house who works in the hospitals as her course dictates ,her father is a pensioner of 73 and not ill but his age is against him, and myself who has had chemotherapy and radiotherapy and still take medication for cancer admitedly i'm 4 years down the line, how do we stand in getting the swine flu jab when and if they manufacture it, i know the student will get priority because of being a health worker and her father will also as considered elderly but where do i stand?

I don't think it's right that the HSE accept that deaths are inevitable from this and at the same time don't do more to prevent it.

Hi Doteen, as far as I understand, the doctor would take swabs for lab analysis to deternine which strain of the flu you have

hi ,

my friend has just had a visitor from uk and the child is unwell had a temperature yesturday and is coughing today with a sore throat but doesnt look ill ,straight away you think is this swine flu or not maybe im being paraniod but with all the hipe about it how do you know ,

Okay if they take swab tests to see what flu you have, remember this is Ireland, how long would these swabs take to come back.  In the meantime if it was the swine flu, days are going by waiting for the results.  If you live in small towns/rural areas in this country you wait weeks for tests results of any kind, such a joke.

I have been told that the analysis of swabs is taking 14 days.  Your advice however says that Tamiflu and other medications are more effective if taken early.  How can they be prescribed early if diagnosis is so slow?  Does it take 14 days for the cultures to grow or is this just another system failure?

Hi reading and listening to everything about Swine Flu it is obvious that they don't know what they are dealing with. It is  airbourne so unless they can develope an antidote asap we are all at risk. Today two people are in intensive care in dublin and god know how many others are in hospital as the HSA seem to think they can keep the news to themselves...It is going to get worse before they find out what it is..and that seems to be the problem..they don't know what it is. They are telling you if you think you have it stay isolated at home , so how can they tell who has it?????  and how widespread it is???

Hi, I am planning for a pregnancy in the autumn. In the last main communication before the present one, people who were planning a pregnancy were advised to contact their GP about getting Tamiflu? Is this still the case? I haven't heard much about this. I would appreciate your advice.. Thanks

Hi Luscious, Tamiflu is now only provided in serious cases of swine flu. It is no longer provided in mild cases and is not provided as a preventative. Pregnancy does put you in the high risk category however. So if it were me I would delay concieving until eithe rthe risk has passed or at least until a vaccine is available.

There was more fuss about swine flu before it hit Ireland. I don't understand the laid back attitude from Dept. of Health. Are we getting a vaccine or not? Do we have to pay for it? (probably do) What are the symptoms to look out for? Why in the name of God are they not informing us about this by tv or leaflets being delivered to every house in Ireland!

Hi Freda

As I understand, the vaccine is not yet available but when it is it will be like most other vaccines - free is youre front line health worker or in an at risk group but everyone else will have to pay for it, I'd say. The article and others on it on irishhealth all list the symptoms - along with the news and media stations but we got za leaflet through the door as did my our neighbours and my mothers neighbours as well.

Thanks for your reply. Thats the first I have heard of leaflets being delivered. I live in west of country, and no one I know has gotten any. And yes, I will look up symptoms on this website. Don't think its fair that some of us would have to pay to see a doctor and receive a vaccine though....

No bother Freda, ,maybe the HSE as usual thinks that the country ends at the Shannon! Sorry but that seems to be their typical atttude on most things! We're in Leinster, my Mam is in Dublin. Teletext has news of it as well but this website is reliable too. Yes, even if the vaccine is free or tamiflu is free, you'll still need to pay to see the doc, like you otherwise would, unless you have a medical card or it's being administered through work or a work GP.

Our Doctors do not have enough Swabs to test everyone, Why? also, some of my friends have suspected Swine flu and were to get their swab results in a couple of days, now, that time is gone to weeks ? The attitude from the medics out there seems to be, you might as well go back to work because whatever you have will be gone by the time the swab results come back? This is disgraceful. Also, Is there not a kit whereby the Doctor can test the swab and get immediate results?

I work in pharmacy and it would really mean a lot if people who think they are infected with swine flu rang their GP rather then coming into surgeries and pharmacies with the virus and spreading it even further!

Can someone please tell me what happens to asthmatic pregnant women who get swine flu??? I am so worried...I am almost 3 months pregnant and a chronic asthmatic...I am on a lot of medication every day for my asthma and had pneumonia last Christmas. I am so worried. My immune system is so low, I am on antibiotics for a chest infection at the moment also. What would happen my baby if I got swine flu?? Thanks

rose, people are already advised not to attend the doctors surgery but to ring in and rquest a house call.

Blondiel pregnant asthmatics are advised to take tamiflu as a precaution.

Does the anti-bacterial hand gel kill viruses? Also, which one is the most effective?

Vaccines only work well in people with healthy immune symptoms.

Please do some research before sticking out your arm for a flu jab.

Look up the manufactures information on vaccine where you will see

info on ingredients possible side effects contraindications etc.

One of the drug companies have been given approval for clinical trials

The name of the vaccine is Celvapan Pandemic Influenza vaccine

Some of the additives / excipients in vaccines can trigger a serious side effect 

in people with allergies and a strong family medical history of autoimmune disease i.e. diabetes ,rheumatoid arthritis, thyroid problems, asthma,lung disease digestive problems, bowel disease, eczema ect etc.

Do some research on the additives/ excipients.

Hi informed, everyone should seek medical advice when it comes to to the flu vaccine if they are not otherwise healthy that is true but as always the rare risk of serous side effects and the risk of mild side effects must we weighed against the effcts of the swine flu.

Since when has diabetes been considered an autoimmue disease. Type 11 is where the the pancreas simply can no longer produce sufficinet insulin - sometimes due to years of overload.

Not all RA is autoimmune but many cases are, that is true.

However, the vaccien as I undersgtnad it is actually recommedned for people with autoimmune conditiosn as they're immunity is already compromised and this leaves them further open to H1N1 infection.

Certainly I know a number of people with autoimmune hypothyroidism who/;s conditons is pervectly managed with medication and who are otherwise perfectly healthy and who get the (ordinary flu) jab every year as recommeded by their endo's as it does not pose any risk to them - the vaccine I mean, not the flu :-)

And as a matter of fact athsma patient are considered particularly at risk of swine flu and complications as a result and are recommended by immunologists to be a priority to recieve the vaccine.

With regard to digestive problems or bowel disease, I haven't heard anything about that.

Vaccines only work well in people with healthy immune symptoms.

Not necessarily true. In fact, some "vulnerable" groups are often targetted in vaccine programes (example the yearly flu vaccine for the elderly)

Please do some research before sticking out your arm for a flu jab.

I would say the same to you informed, no disrespect but your posts all follow the same theme -unsubstantiated scare mongering. Informing yourself PROPERLY about these vaccines will make the whole issue less daunting for you as you realise that vaccines are NOT designed to kill.

Look up the manufactures information on vaccine where you will see

info on ingredients possible side effects contraindications etc.

Of course - this is called Standard Operating Procedure. Pharma companies are legally and ethically obliged to state known or possible adverse reactions or contraindications on their drug safety leaflets. Why do you see this as a negative thing? Woudl you prefer we were NOT told?

One of the drug companies have been given approval for clinical trials

The name of the vaccine is Celvapan Pandemic Influenza vaccine

Some of the additives / excipients in vaccines can trigger a serious side effect 

in people with allergies and a strong family medical history of autoimmune disease i.e. diabetes ,rheumatoid arthritis, thyroid problems, asthma,lung disease digestive problems, bowel disease, eczema ect etc.

I fail to see the correlation here but if you could provide links to proper sources whihc would substantiate these claims I would be more than happy to check them out.

Do some research on the additives/ excipients

These are all listed on the drug safety leaflet. The best source of information is a trusted medical professional or WHO or FDA. Here you WILL find info about pros AND cons (as there is nothing to hide). Type in, however, ANY drug ingredient or medium into Google and of course you will come up with a list of anti-vaccine quackary sites where non-medicals can faff around with lies and rumours to their heart's content.

To Buzz,

I think I am more of an expert on vaccines than you will ever be.

How is that? What are your qualifications? Have you studied chemistry and pharmaceuical science? Have you worked in pharmacovigilance on different clinical trials? Have you assessed, processed and reported adverse reactions as per protocol for a living? Have you worked for one of the major pharma companies in Ireland?

I have first hand experience of one of my children was damaged with the controversial MMR vaccine.

Again, there is no proof of correlation here and if there was the vaccine would ahve been withdrawn by now. What a lot of people forget is that pharma companies are not in a postition to grant themsleves licenses. Their drugs must undergo rigorous clinical testing before they are given approval and this is done by a specialised regulatory body NOT by themselves. If there were such serious adverse effects as you claim there are the drug would, simply, not be used any more.

When it comes to prescribed drugs or vaccines it is not a case of one size

fits all.

Agreed, and this is WHY there are lists of contraindications for every single drug. ALL drugs will tell you who should or should not take them, and in the absence of a thorough data sheet, your medical professional can supply one (for vaccines etc) so that you ARE "informed"

Children with allergies and a strong family history autoimmune disease are the more likely ones to be at risk of vaccine damage.

Again, no proof here. Of course there are going to be mild reactions such as inflammation at the injection site, but given the severity of the diseases that these vaccines protect against, I think I would take my chances.

If you choose to stick your head in the sand and play russian roulette with

your health thats your choice.

FYI the following compares the serious adverse effects of the disease in question versus the serious adverse effects of the MMR Vaccine:

1.Febrile convulsions (fits that can occur when a child has a high fever).

- Children affected after the natural disease = 1 in 200

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 1 in 1000

2. Meningitis (inflammation of the lining of the brain) and encephalitis (inflammation of the brain)

- Children affected after the natural disease = 1 in 1000 for measles, mumps, encephalitis. 1 in 20 for mumps, meningitis and 1 in 6000 for rubella encephalitis

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = less than 1 in 1 million

3. ITP (idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura - conditions affecting blood clotting)

- Children affected after the natural disease = 1 in 3000 for rubella and 1 in 6000 for measles

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 1 in 22 000

4. Severe allergic response (anaphylaxis)

- Children affected after the natural disease = N/A

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 1 in 100 000

5. SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis) - a delayed complication that can cause brain damage and death

- Children affected by the natutal disease = 1 in 8000 (for those under two who contract the disease)

- Children affected after the first dose of MMR = 0

6. Death

- Children affected by the natural disease = 1 in 2500 to 1 in 5000

What about reports of links between autism and

MMR? Is this really a risk?

What about reports of links between MMR and

bowel disease?

Buzz,

There is a big increase in children/ young adults diagnosed with bowel disease i.e. Crohn's disease /Ulcerative colitis since the 1990's especially Crohn's disease. The age group mostly affected are aged from 1-25.

And you are doing the predictable typical thing of only looking at one possible factor. Would you never consider other factors or are you so blinkered in your witchunt that you are incapable of seeing outside the box?

The manufactures information re: MMR lists gastro-intestinal problems as a

possible side effect. IT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

Of course it's not rocket science it is medical science. Whats your point? And do you have anything to say in response to the statistics I posted yesterday which pretty much rubbish your ridiculous unsubstantiated claims?

Hi Buzz,

Are you saying that you have worked for one of the major pharma companies in Ireland? And if so are you still working for them?

I suggest that anybody under the illusion that the vaccine/autism debate has been settled should look up the Hannah Poling case. The US federal government acknowledged that Hannah had suffered vaccine-induced autism and settled accordingly. 

There is also a good, sober critical analysis of the scientific papers regularly cited as proving that there is no link between vaccines and autism at www.fourteenstudies.org. 

One interesting fact that is rarely advertised is that there has been no effective large long-term study that has examined the differences between people who been vaccinated and those who have not.

Hi David

What business is it of yours?

No offfence really but HOW is that relevant?

Buzz,

Quoting the WHO as though it were the gospel means nothing to me.

Perhaps it means nothing to you because you do not realy understand the worldwide respect afforded to, or indeed the power and professionalism of such a HUGE organisation? Perhaps you do not WANT it to mean anything to you because then you might have to listen to what they have to say?

Many prescribed drugs etc that were supposed to be safe have been recalled because they were causing serious side effects like vioxx for instance.

Yes of course, what would you have them do? NOT recall them and knowingly put people in danger? Is that how YOU would conduct yourslef in such a situation?

Maybe you should look outside Ireland when researching vaccines.

I think my information obtained from the WHO is pretty sufficient, you know...the WORLD health organisation? Maybe not?

Because of the libel laws and vested interests in Big Pharma in Ireland a lot

of medical news is censored in some of the print and broadcast media.

Now for the conspiracy theories!

Oh and I am still waiting for a comment on my stats re adverse effects.....

David, that child had a pre-existing Mitochondrial disorder which pre-disposed her to autism-like symptoms post vaccination. Interestingly, while the Vaccine Court awarded damages without even going to trial, a statement from the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation says that there has been no research to date on any relationship between mitochondrial disease and vaccines and therefore there can be no definitive correlation drawn.

Vaccines stimulate the immune system, which may put stress on the cell function of a child who has a mitochondrial disorder such that the child now shows increased symptoms. In an extreme case, the symptoms could involve regression and symptoms of autism.

Since these disorders are inherited then perhaps there should be more attention paid to testing (pre vaccination) for these disorders in those who may be pre-disposed, rather than simply blindly joining the witchunt for the sake of it. I think the former would be time better spent, and would benefit our children far more.

To say that the vaccine causes autism in perfectly healthy children is, quite simply, incorrect and there is NO proof otherwise, no matter what type of spin you try to put on it.

Blondiexx - The best thing to do is to try and boost your immune system.  This will help you overcome any infection, not just swine flu.  I am 8 months pregnant and asthmatic.  I had a cold a couple of months back and can honestly say it's the mildest cold I've ever had!  Usually colds go to my chest and I'm coughing for at least 2 weeks after the cold has gone.  This time the cold was over and done in 2 days with no chestiness.  I put this down to the fact that I have been really taking care of myself because I am pregnant - a good diet, plenty of water, vitamin supplements (pre-natal and vitamin C), and no alcohol!  Antibiotics can play havoc with your system too - it might be an idea to take a probiotic tablet to boost your friendly bacteria, the body's first line of defence against infection.  I would urge you to look into how you can boost your immune system - just do a search on the internet and you'll find plenty of ideas.  It can even be as simple as adjusting your diet, getting plenty of colourful fruit and veg, especially green, red/purple and orange (the colours are often a sign of the protective properties they contain) and cutting right down on your sugar intake as sugar can have a suppressive effect on your immune system.  The old saying 'an apple a day...' is especially true if you're asthmatic.  Apples contain a substance called quercetin which improves lung function.

I wish you luck in improving your asthma... and good luck with the baby!

Hi Buzz,

I am sorry that I seemed to have upset you by asking if you worked for a big pharma company. I though it was a reasonable question given that you have asked the question of Informed. I also thought it might go some way to explaining your passionate defence of pharmaceutical products. 

Buzz,

The statement from the CEO of the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation on possible links between childhood vaccinations and mitochondrial diseases actually said:"There are no scientific studies documenting that childhood vaccinations cause or worsen mitochondrial diseases, but there is very little scientific research in this area."

The United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation have also said that at least one in 200 healthy humans "harbors a pathogenic mitochondrial mutation that potentially causes disease." This might help to explain why 1 in 100 children are now diagnosed with autism. Considering all this I am sure you would agree with Bernadine Healy (the former head of the US National Institutes of Health) that more research needs to be done into the vaccine/autism link.

Hi Blondiexx,

That sounds like good advice from houseonthehill. You might also try coconut oil. It supposedly has anti-viral properties and it tastes delicious. A tub of good quality organic virgin pressed oil costs about €15-€20. Its worth spending a bit more as it does vary in quality and taste. There is a lot on the web about its other benefits. Its the only I really use any more as its quite versatile. I mix it into my sons bottles as well as it is the best source of lauric acid outside of breastmilk.

Good luck with the baby! 

Blondiexx - Speaking of breastmilk, not only is it the perfect nutrition for your baby, it is full of white blood cells, the body's army against disease, and also the mother's antibodies.  This means the baby will have protection against anything the mother has come into contact with, including various flu viruses.  Babies' immune systems take a while to develop, but while they are receiving breastmilk they are getting the benefit of your antibodies in the fight against infection.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that breastfed babies also have less chance of developing asthma and allergies than their formula-fed friends.

Hi David

No of course you have not upset me, though thank you for you concern. Indeed I do not make a point of becoming upset at such minor events such as someone disagreeing with me on a discussion board. If we were all to be that thin skinned we would be for the birds don't you agree?

I posed that question to informed because Informed told me that they would always know far more than me in this field...and I simply wanted to question how. A reasonable justification for asking a question I believe. You asking me the same question "because I asked someone else" is, quite frankly, a bit batty but yes since you are so desperate to know I have worked in the REGULATORY end of the pharma industry so I think I know a thing or two about the conduction of CT's, and reporting, processing and evaluating adverse events as per protocol.

I am not blindly defending something just for the sake of it. There is nothing to gain from such behaviour. I cannot, however, say the same for those loonies who bang on about the evils of conventional med when they have not bothered to educate themselves properly. Why do you think THEY defend their cause so fiercely? Perhaps they are aware of their own shortcomings when it comes to actually substantiating their ludicrous claims?

David if you believe that more research needs to be done into the vaccination/autism link, then you are, by your own admission, telling us that there is no definitive link between the two.

hi

there is going to be a lot of perple worrying about the swine flu, of course they are, another patient died,

With the people talking about allergies from the vaccine and the confusion - the majority of flu vaccines are cultured using eggs [although they are now disscussing one version using caterpillars, not sure how that works.]

As I am highly allergic to anything containing traces of egg [go into anaphalytic shock (sp?) if ingest traces of egg or derivitives] I will not be having the vaccine.

Hi Purple I think you are right. The media have a lot to answer for too though dont you think? They thrive on bad news and sensationalism...not that that takes from the tragedy of these lives lost. Am I correct too in my knowledge that this latest victim had ,according to reports, no underlying medical conditions?

Buzz,

It is a shame that you can't seem to engage in a debate from which we could all learn something valuable without descending to name calling. Many people who are wary of the pharmaceutical industry's  products are very well educated in my experience. They are by no means "loonies". I also don't see how my question can be considered "batty". 

Hi David

It is a shame you cant seem to read back through posts to an extent such that you will see the information that I HAVE provided but which has conveniently been ignored by the anti0conventional bridage because they wish to deny it's existance or, simply, cannot think of a counter argument (one cannot, afterall, argue with FACT)

Your question was completely irrelevant as it was an attempt perhaps to paint me as the fanatic that you wish to view me as. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

I don't think you are a fanatic Buzz but I do think your comments could be fairly described as bullying.

Why is that David? Because I do not necessarily agree with what you say? Is everyone who disagrees with you a bully?

I have strength in my convictions because I value the truth. I am not afraid to stand by what I say and defend my arguments because unlike others, I actually go to the bother of substantiating them. If I find fault with someone's post (for example they are resorting to exaggeration, lies and false data to promote their own agenda) then yes I will challenge them.

It would seem, however, that if someone disagrees with YOU, you call them a bully. Once we know where we stand I suppose!

Oh and I am STILL waiting for a comment on my recent post which contained data pertaining to adverse effects of vaccines Vs adverse effects of the natural disease.

Actually Buzz you are the only person whose behaviour I have described as bullying. 

The data you have quoted is kind of meaningless because until there has been a large long-term study done of the vaccinated versus unvaccinated population no-one can say for certain what the risks versus the benefits of injecting toxic material into babies (Irish children get 23 vaccines by the time they are 6 months old, long before the mmr) is. 

The other thing that makes those statistics meaningless is that the CDC as one of the main sources of vaccine data have acknowledged that the majority of adverse reactions are not reported.

I have asthma, rheumatoid arthritis and had anaphilactic shock from penicillin.  A prime candidate for this flu. 

I just live in hope that I dont get it.

I don't spend my days worrying about it but do carry out all the recomendations advised by HSI. THis vaccine is as great a worry as it hasn't been tested for such a short period. 

Good luck to all and I hope if any of you are unfortunate to get this flu that it is just a mild dose.

David you may think my data is meaningless based on whatever loopholes and technicalities you can clutch at, but the fact remains that my posts are a hell of a lot more factual than some of the posts on here that I have rightly challenged. My information is properly sourced, my claims are substantiated and I am not just blowing hot air like a lot of people here who are against vaccines simply for the sake of it. Long term or not, it is still unwise to place your child's health in the hands of such grave statistics which serve to highlight just how detrimental (and at times fatal) these diseases can be.

You argue about the long term effects...just HOW long term exactly? 10, 20, 30 years? Do you think it is fair to subject babies and children to serious illness for decades because you want to be sure beyond reasonable doubt? There is such a thing as post marketting surveillance. These vaccines are constantly being monitored long after they are put into use. And no this is not to make up for shortcomings while the initial tests are being carried out, it is to ensure that all possible adverse reactions can be monitored ALL the time.

You argue about the POSSIBLE side effects that a child MAY suffer in years to come, I argue about the PROBABLE side effects that a child WILL suffer in the much nearer future if they DO contract these diseases.

I fail to see how you can claim that "the majority of adverse effects are not reported" - that makes no sense for the simple reason that if they are not reported then how do we know they exist?

You are dead right Buzz, if they are not reported then how do we know they exist? It looks like we agree on something - the inherent flaw in a passive reporting system is that we can't tell for sure what how many adverse reactions (everybody agrees there are some the dispute is really over how many) there are.

Dr. James Froeschle at Connaught Laboratories would have us believe that "the company estimates about a 50-fold underreporting of adverse events in the passive reporting system". That was his testimony to the Institute of Medicine.

Do you really think their Director of Clinical Research was deliberately misleading the public on such an important matter?

hi

Another person dies from the swine flu, how many more are going to die from this, its getting really scary?

Dear Purple,

Both people both of the people who had swine flu that died had serious underlying health problems that made them vulnerable to illnesses like the flu. The vast majority of those who get swine flu suffer mild symptoms. To get this in perspective 2-9 people in the UK and Ireland die every year from bee stings.

Its worth remembering that one of the things that can weaken our immune system is living in a state of constant fear (warranted or not). I think one of the best things you can do for your health is to igore the fear-mongering media which thrives on manufacturing hysteria (remember mad cow disease - which was going to kill millions?). 

If you are really worried though, one of the best ways to protect yourself from illness is to get plenty of sunshine as Vitamin D deficiency is probably the main reason that the majority of flu cases appear in the winter.

Just to let you know there is a great presentation for pandemic influenza for ireland in slideshare and scribd publishing sites! Or you can find it at (hpsc influenza) if you spell influenza wrong it shouldn't highlight the word in the presentation example (hpsc influena)! Find it by google search (may 18th version and the version Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 1.5 version are the same! A little long winded but an excellent presentation!

No David we are NOT agreeing on something, and I would thank you not to deliberately misinterpret what I say. The fact that we have no evidence of these adverse effects is pretty strong proof that they do NOT exist, and any other deduction is, quite simply, foolish. You use the fact that there has been NO documented evidence for something's existance as PROOF that it exists? my my......you really DO want to win this argument so badly don't you.

I was off work last week with suspected swine flu (nothing confirmed, felt unwell so rang the swine-flu phoneline, my symptoms matched what they were describing) It wasn't pleasant, especially the first 2 days but at no stage did I feel my life was under threat, I slept a lot and had very little energy but I can honestly say I've felt a lot worse from other illnesses I've had in the past.

Hi Purple, was that the victim in the North? As far as I know that victim had underlying illnesses, unlike the previous victim who was otherwise healthy.

David given that you believe our system of reporting is "passive" I would be interested to know what measures you would take to improve it? Take all the quacks seriously every time they throw around more urban legends? Refuse to protect ALL babies of sensible parents because ONE parent decides, based on their lack of medical and pharmaceutical knowledge, to draw a flimsy correlation between vaccines and an illness that would have occured anyway? Do you think that is fair? I certainly would not want my child exposed to a preventable and potentially life-threatening illness because of the whimsical and unsubstantiated claims of a few scare mongers with a chip on their shoulders.

re the lack of reporting of AE's: there is a system in place whereby health professionals report adverse reactions to the necessary authorities under a post marketing surveillance scheme. If a parent decides NOT to consult their doctor should their child fall victim to an adverse reaction, then really that says a lot more about the PARENT than it does about the system doesnt it? ANY parent who does not consult their doctor when their child falls ill, be it from an AE or NOT, is failing in their duty as a parent.

re point56, David you are in fact incorrect. One of those victims had no underlying illnesses.

Actually Buzz the CDC is the American source of vaccine data not the Irish and as a result is one of the main sources of vaccine data used by the WHO. I would have thought you knew that having worked in the regulatory end of the pharmaceutical industry.

We do have evidence of adverse reactions from all vaccines. A point acknowledged in all the vaccine package inserts. Even if that were not the case a scientist would tell you that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

Also the Irish Times said the second swine flu victim had heart diease.

One last point Buzz. Writing in caps in these discussions is in my book the equivalent of shouting. I can only guess that you are so unsure of your argument that you feel shouting your point will be more convincing. Whatever the reason Buzz I think we'll just have to agree to disagree and move on as I have no desire to continue debating this subject while you are being so aggressive.

hi all

we got a letter off the school this morning, If yourson has any flu like symptoms they would send him home for 7 days.  This i can understyouu no the way the system is with kids not being allowed more than 22 days out of the schooling year.

Drago

Thank you for yor information about your experience with the swine flu. Much better to hear such encouraging news from you than reading the contradictions and meaningless discussions going on between Buzz and David.

Again thank you Drago

We do have evidence of adverse reactions from all vaccines.

Yes and if you look at the drug data sheet you will see that these AE's are in fact listed. People are not being kep "in the dark" by the pharma industries, they are, in fact, keeping themselves in the dark through their own ignorance and absolute unwillingness to educate themselves properly.

Even if that were not the case a scientist would tell you that absence of proof is not proof of absence.

So why dont we pull every drug then...just in case? If you actually read back through your own post you will see that in fact, what you are actually saying is "we should not trust any drug just in case there are unknown AE's". Your "logic" would (were it taken seriously) condem people to death. You STILL have not provided any sound arguments against the data that I provided earlier pertaining to vaccine and illness side effects (and no, saying that there "may" be more AE's that we "don't know about" is not really a strong enough argument...think about it...I could say the very same to you - well there MAY be more illness related side effects that we don't know about - you see how weak that argument is?)

Also the Irish Times said the second swine flu victim had heart diease.

Fair enough, I stand corrected. The news I received was obviously incorrect (we all know what the media are like) but I am actually willing to admit when I am wrong, unlike some.

well looks like my point has been edited to near extinction ha ha point is David I am free to use whatever case I want for emphasism not shouting, I dont know why you are being so over sensitive. Have you nothing else to offer?

Hi,

Wondering if any parents out there are worried about sending their kids that have underlying health issues to school. My son ( age 5) is due to start in Junior Infants next week - But I am worried about Swine Flu. He gets the normal flu jab every year. I have an older child with no health and she will be going back to school - so any infections in school could be brought home anyway.....Anyone having the same problem trying to make this decision ?

hi

TS 9255

yes im like u very worried about the swine flu, my son who has ashma gets the flu injection every to protect him against flu colds, but im extremly worried about sending him to school, as he catch any cold, he is 14 and going back this week,

Hi purple, I think the differnce with teens is that they know to sneeze or cough into a tissue and flush it away and to wash their hands. It's the smaller ones of 5 and 6 that can be that bit more careless. Just my opinion.

A little note to Buzz,

A Far Eastern saying goes, "The tree with the largest amount of fruit, would have the closest branches to the ground."

How does this make you feel?:

Option 1- " You might have the information as well as the knowledge but you lack sympathy, you are selfish and you want to prove yourself so bad that you are using bold and caps to express your opinions. Simply you are a looser looking for an approval, like a child palying in the backyard!"

How about this?:

Option 2- " I see you have the experience on the topic. Would you find it more helpful to others to express yourself in a more modest and empathical manner?"

Remember there is always someone who wil kick your arse with more info more title and more experience than you might ever have in this tiny island of ours.

What remains is the feeling of pity you left in others.

David and Informed thank you for the calm, repectful and yet engaging method you use to communicate your opinions. Definetely would chose as an example for my kids. Information is available everywhere, but genuine attitude seems to lack, even in the "cycber world"

PS: Buzz don't bother answering this, you wacko, becuase I won't be following this thread. We all know you have a lot to say and you don't know how to say it. Was it that someone else was promoted or one of yoru colleagues have beaten you to death with their success? Go get a life man!

Well haka what can I say...you feel the need to resort to having a go at me over my casing (of what relevance is upper or lower case to this argument) and quoting trite, cliched chocolate box sayings that have no grounding in reality whatsoever. I think we can safely say YOU have brough nothing to the table. Follow Davids "calm" advice if you will, though I am sure you will go running to conventional meds if your child becomes ill because you have denied him the necessary protection. Feel free to answer this post if you wish, because unlike you I am not afraid of what people will say in reply :) Goodbye!

hi all

buzz is right, im at the moment worried about the swine flu, my son who is 14 is going back to school tomorrow, i would wish to god that they would close the schools until they get the vaccine, i would rather my son torment me that have him go to school and get the swine flu and have him die from it,yes this swine flu is a killer, what the HSE is doing is rong, they dont want to close the school, but they should consider, . wake up people,

Kudos to Hakanakah.

People are here purely for practical information and not for an overly emotional response, there are plenty of social networking sites for that!

Im returning to college next week and Im concerned, what with living in student accommodation and being in quite a crowded environment all the time.

Our college closed last year for a time with an outbreak of another, less prevalent virus. The college is giving us very little advice on what to do, and they are extremely unprepared service-wise. Last year I had to wait two days to get an appointment with college doctor for a chest infection!

I find it interesting the amount of "one post wonders" signing up here just to bash buzz.

Carlos if you were really that concerned with an outbreak then you wouldn't be congratulating quacks such as hakawhatever. Practical information is not exactly something they have a good track record with, unless of course, you think eastern european chocolate box "one size fits all" sayings are going to afford you the necessary protection from this disease.

Yes Billybob it is something that I have noticed alright but to be honest, that type of behaviour is akin to running up to someone in the playground, poking them and then running away giggling because you are afraid of the reaction. They don't concern me! I can be proud and stand my ground because my posts are factual, scientific and are a far cry from the unsubstantiated drivel that the anti-pharma quacks seem to take as gospel. Regards.

Hey Drago.

I was the same last week (suspected but not confirmed). I think the temperature was the worst bit though.

I have been left with a bad dry cough that only developed after 4 days. Did anything like that happen you?

It is only a flu; also ill with it here and it is  even in me who has immune problems, not a big deal. This is the only place I have read any fears. Yes, the cough here too.. but the flu that was around two winters ago was far worse.

Hi Curious,

yeah, I developed the cough, again, it was very mild and cleared up after a few days

hi

sorella

it may be only a flu but think of it, the swine flu,so many have died from it thats y people are talking about it, im worried as my son has ashma, and he catches anything, like colds, like myself i catch any flu,people have to realise this is a FLU THAT CAN KILL.

hi all

news this morning and text says all school going children are back to day, they are advised to put a handkerchief to there noes and mouth when coughing or sneezing, how can you tell a four year old to do that, my neighbour was saying her four year old is so parnoid over all this swine flu, she only started school this morning, in the clinic this morning it had up on the noticed borad, please wash hand before see GP, people say not too worry, yes of course we are going to worry, it has killed people,

Hi Purple, until the vaccine is readily available, all we can do is take precautions. They have said if figures rise to double among school going children once classes return, their preventative plan may change.

hi, I'm Italian. I should come to Dublin for a short break on 25th September, but I'm really scared about swine flu. do you know how is the situation there?

thanks

Monica

One of the simplest things parents can do to help protect their children from the flu is to maximise their exposure to sunlight. Vitamin D deficiency (very common in the winter months here) is known to increase susceptibility to influenza.

ps thanks Hakanakah

Correct. Studies show that vitamin D stimulates the immune system and disease-fighting cells, called macrophages and T cells. The cells create proteins that have antiviral and antimicrobial properties. Further, we know that macrophages and T cells have vitamin D receptors (VDRs) on them, enhancing their functions.

Given however that we are heading into a typical Irish winter, perhaps parents should also consider supplements as daylight hours decrease.

any suggestions on which supplements Buzz? cod liver oil? have heard differing opinions about it

I don't know about specific supplements David but I know the recommended dose is 1000 IU per day. Obviously some brands are worth far more than others. The cheaper supplements tend to be less economical as each capsule will contain less of the RDA. We always found Solgar to be a good brand, though I am sure there are plenty more which are just as good. I suppose the main thing is to avoid those shops which boast really cheap supplements and protein shakes etc. A good, reputable health store can point you in the right direction.

Just watched david icke being interviewed on you tube warning mothers about the dangers of swine flue vaccinations. I cannot make up my mind who or what to believe on this subject.

Baxter were caught shipping regular flu vaccines to 18 countries that had Live H5N1 Avian virus in them. http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009/02/27/8560781.html

People need to start joining up the dots here! Jane Burgermeister, an Irish journalist is bringing criminal charges against the UN, The WHO and Baxter!

http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/about/

Why has this not been reported in the main stream media. Even if you personally do not think there is any substance to the information, I would still think it's only fair that you pass this information on to everyone you know, and let them draw their own conclusions.

I respect anyones decision to take this vaccine if they are fully informed about the risks involved with a rushed through untested vaccine. I for one wont be taking the vaccine. Even if you personally do not think there is any substance to the information, I would still think it's only fair that you pass this information on to everyone you know, and let them draw their own conclusions. At the end of the day the pharmacies do stand to make a hell of a lot of money out of this... ...

Eat properly, get some fresh air and exercise, dont stress, and everything will be ok.

It was reported by multiple sources last March, including the Times of India, vaccines contaminated with deadly live H5N1 avian flu virus were distributed to 18 countries in December 2008 by a lab at an Austrian branch of Baxter.

It was only by providence that the batch was first tested on ferrets in the Czech Republic, before being shipped out for injection into humans. The ferrets all died and the shocking discovery was made.

Czech newspapers immediately questioned whether the events were part of a conspiracy to deliberately provoke a pandemic, following up on accusations already made by health officials in other countries.

Initially, Baxter attempted to stonewall questions by invoking “trade secrets” and refused to reveal how the vaccines were contaminated with H5N1. After increased pressure they then claimed that pure H5N1 batches were sent by accident.

It has been suggested that since the probability of mixing a live virus with vaccine material by accident is virtually impossible, this leaves no other explanation than that the contamination was a deliberate attempt to weaponize the H5N1 virus to its most potent extreme and distribute it via conventional flu vaccines to the population who would then infect others to a devastating degree as the disease went airborne.

WHO officials are reportedly still closely monitoring ongoing investigations into Baxter's contaminated vaccines; despite this the company is leading the way in the production of swine flu vaccines that could become mandatory. Indeed, in a well timed act of foresight, Baxter filed its swine flu vaccine patent exactly one year ahead of the outbreak?

Europe and the US planning to fast-track the approval of swine flu vaccines, new regulations have been put in place to provide pharmaceutical companies with blanket immunity from lawsuits.

BUYERS BEWARE!

Chic, is that the same David Icke that claims to be the second coming of Christ and believes that the British royal family are in fact lizard people from another world?

It has been suggested that since the probability of mixing a live virus with vaccine material by accident is virtually impossible, this leaves no other explanation than that the contamination was a deliberate attempt to weaponize the H5N1 virus to its most potent extreme and distribute it via conventional flu vaccines to the population who would then infect others to a devastating degree as the disease went airborne.

ok.......but WHY?

Why? Why not?

Why would a pharmaceutical company file its swine flu vaccine patent exactly one year ahead of the outbreak? Perhaps it was incredible foresight?

Why would they deliberately contaminate conventional flu vaccines? To help it spread? I don’t know, but if you consider that the H5N1 virus on its own has killed hundreds of people, but it is less airborne and more restricted in the ease with which it can spread. However, when combined with seasonal flu viruses, which as everyone knows are super-airborne and easily spread, the effect is a potent, super-airborne biological weapon. More people get sick, increase the requirement for vaccine, more profit for the pharmaceutical companies?

Perhaps this is the reason, perhaps not, I don’t know. What’s more I don’t care!

The fact is they did it, whatever their reasons were, and for me that’s enough!

Chic,

There are many good reasons to be sceptical of the swine flu vaccine and Baxter in particular (not least the fact that they are the company that sold our government blood products contaminated with HIV and Hep C ) Why mention someone who believes in shape-shifting reptilians unless you want people to dismiss your concerns?

Sorry but I do not buy into those conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy theories????? The mind is like a parachute Buzz. It doesn’t work unless it’s open.

In 1996 Pfizer under the pretence of doing charity work in Nigeria tested a new drug on children without parental consent. Before they were caught they had killed 11 children and maimed dozens more. Conspiracy theory?

Nope, earlier this year they settled an action taken against them as a result of their actions for $75 million. 

Pfizer figured they could make more profits by marketing four of their drugs for illnesses they were not approved for. Conspiracy theory?

Nope, they just settled the resulting case for $2.3 billion.

Baxter took some shortcuts to save money in the production of their blood products and ended up infecting thousands with HIV and Hep C. Conspiracy theory?

Nope, In  America alone Baxter along with Bayer, Armour Pharmaceutical Company and Alpha Therapeutic Corporation paid out $660 million to settle cases on behalf of more than 6,000 haemophiliacs. Even when the damage being inflicted by the blood became clear Bayer continued to sell blood contaminated with HIV to Asia. I think that is worth repeating:

Even when the damage being inflicted by the blood became clear Bayer continued to sell blood contaminated with HIV to Asia.

I could go on, but the point is an awful lot of "conspiracy theory" has turned out to be conspiracy fact.

hi all

i would like to make a comment

my son told me tonight, that they have a system in the school, they have a spray that they can use if they sneeze or cough, they can spray this liquid onto their hands, ma its fine, but what happends is that some classes, if they sneeze and havent got a handkerchift, they are ALOUD TO GO TO THE TABLE THAT THE SPRAY IS ON AND WIPE THERE HAND ,IN ONE class if they do get up the teacher says sit down, now this spray is suppose to help them, i told my son i will get u your own spray and if this teacher says anyting to u u tell me and i will report him/her, what the hell are teachers doing, they are supposed to be helping kids not giving out to them,if my son gets the swine flu over this i will go mad.

Char,

Jane Burgermeister is Austrian, not Irish. and I'd take anything I read on Wordpress with a pinch of salt, especially if it resorts to using scare tactics like using "666" in it's title.

Richard Hoey, editor of Pulse, said: ‘The medical profession has yet to be convinced by the Government’s whole approach to swine flu, with most GPs now feeling that the Department of Health overreacted in its policy on blanket use of Tamiflu.

Also up to half of family doctors in the UK do not want to be vaccinated against swine flu.

More than two thirds of those who will turn the jab down believe it has not been tested enough. Most also believe the flu has turned out to be so mild in the vast majority of cases that the vaccine is not needed.

Of those who said they did not want to jab, 71 per cent said it was because of safety concerns. Yet according to the Irish Independent today the two drug companies supplying over seven million doses of the swine flu vaccine here in Ireland will not be liable for any compensation claims if anyone suffers serious complications, it was confirmed yesterday.

Officials from the Department of Health said it had granted indemnity to the two companies, which would leave the State picking up the bill in the event of anyone being damaged by the vaccine.

Incredable!

The delegation from the Department of Health and the Health Service Executive (HSE) who were briefing the Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children said a vaccine compensation scheme would be finalised shortly but it was not yet "on the minister's desk". A vaccine compenstaion scheme? Now that instills confidence dosent it?

I would very much like to know is who is behind this multi million euro scam!

Thank you David for actually taking the time to substantiate your claims. I can now actually respect your posts and yes I will be doing my own reading up on these facts you have got me curious now! Of course you will understand I amy come back with a slightly different version of the truth given that it is not unknown for the ant-conventional ones to shall we say...omit certain truths or gloss over the smaller details...? Not to mention theiir convenient amnesia when it comes to realising the GOOD that these companies do. Anyway we shall see. As for the rest of the posters I am sorry but I do not listen to rubbish. Why should I? Also, how is depriving your own daighter of protection against cervical cancer going to undo the supposed evil wrongdoings that have happend in the past? I would protect my child no matter what the cost and I think most people are the same. You have heard the saying cutting off your nose to spite your face...why deny your child access to protection from a potentially fatal disease becauseyou want to take a political stance? That is not protecting your child.

Good for U Buzz. I find it’s always a good idea to do a little research and have some idea of what you’re talking about before forming your opinions.

As for the rest of the posters I am sorry but I do not listen to rubbish. Why should I?

Well perhaps its not rubbish. Have you even considered that perhaps it’s true? But you’ll never know unless you check it out will you?

Not to mention their convenient amnesia when it comes to realising the GOOD that these companies do.

Pharmaceutical companies are NOT in the business of doing good, their in the business of making profit, period! I would, as many others would I sure, like to believe this was not the case but reality begs to differ!

Your suggestion that anyone would deny a child access to protection from a potentially fatal disease because they want to take a political stance is absurd in the extreme!

Information cannot hurt any one and I believe its far better to educate yourself about such matters so as you can make an informed decision rather than allowing yourself to be led and said like sheep!

Razor perhaps you should take your own advice sometime? How about looking at the number of people drugs have actually SAVED....? Then you could also be like me and check your facts before you post. My point re denying children access to protection is far from absurd I can assure you. What IS absurd however, is denying your child access to protection because you wish to take a political stance. It is obvious that this is the reasoning behind such ludicrous decisions, you only need to look around you at the drivel that is posted here. People talking about AE's that happened years ago, conspiracy theories, plucking data when and where it suits them to point score....how is that helping their children exactly?? Little Johnny ends up in intensive care due to swine flu. It's ok though, his parents can sleep easy at night knowing that they did the right thing by denying him a vaccination. How important do you think their political agenda or pharma hating hobby would seem then?

Information cannot hurt any one and I believe its far better to educate yourself about such matters so as you can make an informed decision rather than allowing yourself to be led and said like sheep!

Funny, this is exactly what I would say to the pharma haters! :)

The problem you run into when trying to educate yourself on these matters is that the pharmaceutical industry goes to great lengths to protect its interests:

Merck are currently fighting a court case in Australia where they have been exposed as having paid Elsevier (the publishing house behind The Lancet) to publish 6 scentific looking medical journals which contained articles promoting a product (Vioxx) they knew was dangerous. 

And the New York Times reported on August 4th that "Newly unveiled court documents show that ghostwriters paid by a pharmaceutical company (Wyeth) played a major role in producing 26 scientific papers backing the use of hormone replacement therapy in women, suggesting that the level of hidden industry influence on medical literature is broader than previously known..” 

Buzz it is but folly to deny that there are people alive today due to the advances and availability of modern medicines. But it is equal folly to unnecessarily pump unproven potentially deadly drugs into a young child to prevent a virus which by all accounts is considered no more dangerous than the common flu, and for our government to pay 88,000,000 for the privilege reeks of corruption.

Add to this the facts surrounding the way some of these massive multinational pharmaceutical companies conduct their business and a very sinister picture emerges. 

Smallpox vaccine infant deaths (UK) were estimated at 25,000 in 1880

From July 1990 thro' April 1994, 5799 ADRs following MMR vaccination were reported to US Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS); including 3063 cases requiring emergency medical treatment, 616 hospitalisations, 309 who did not recover, 54 children left disabled and 30 deaths.

The total 24,775 VAERS hepatitis B reports from July 1990 to October 31, 1998 show 439 deaths and 9673 serious reactions involving emergency room visits, hospitalization, disablement or death.

Since July 1990, 17,497 cases of hospitalizations, injuries and deaths in America following hepatitis B vaccination have been reported to the (VAERS). This figure includes 146 deaths in individuals after receiving only hepatitis B vaccine without any other vaccines, including 73 deaths in children under 14 years old. In 1996 alone there were 872 serious adverse events in children under 14 years old reported to VAERS.

In 2007 the FDA received 305 Billion from pharmaceutical companies under the “1992 Prescription Drug User Fee Act”.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

This discussion about Swine Flu seems to have taken on a whole new topic??

Hi Drago, Thanks for replying. Jane is born to an Irish mother and holds an Irish passport. Minor details :0) How do we define our nationality nowadays???

I hear what you say about wordpress but I dont buy into the negative speculation around 666. But, thats for a whole other forum.

Regardless of what nationality Jane is the point is she has uncovered irrefutable proof that this vaccine is unsafe and that the swine flu was manmade. It is hard to accept, I understand that! Some people just arent ready for the truth .... .... yet.

well, I started reading to get information on swine flu and boy I don't know what to think now regarding all the infor on the pharma companies which in a strange way feels like the truth, i'm always so nervous when giving my children vaccines as you're really putting them into strangers hands which you would never normally do and seeing how the government seem to just take certain advice onboard regarding all govermental, social and health issues and not even consider other alternatives which are usually simpler, it seems it's up to individuals again to keep searching for answers where their gut leads them as why are we all so suspicious of all the major decisions so called done in our favour ... good health to all .. have work to do and must head back to forum later, interesting to say the least

Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.

- Andre Gide

...and ignore those who chose not to believe it.

Exactly! Why waste time and effort convincing brain dead lemmings who wouldn’t recognise the truth if it jumped up and bit them on the a*s.

Well said. They are the very people who would go running for a GP and a good old dose of chemicals if they did become ill. Talk is cheap...but life is precious!

"brain dead lemmings"

Oh how quick we are to resort to insult in place of intellectual defence.

Talk is cheap and yes life is precious, very precious, so why would any sane person risk taking a vaccine or worse still give it to their unsuspecting children, from a dubious drug company that has been found to have previously on more than one occasion issued contaminated vaccines  to boost their profits and risk the same faith? Insane!

What's wrong with lemmings?! :)

Statements like “Blondiel pregnant asthmatics are advised to take tamiflu as a precaution” when the Tamiflu manufactures Roche say it’s not normally recommended for use by pregnant women because the effects on the unborn child are an unknown, hardly qualifies as intellectual defense! More like dangerous misinformed bull.

Add to this Roche USA tamiflu information which states “Efficacy of TAMIFLU in the treatment of subjects with chronic cardiac disease and/or respiratory disease has NOT been established and that there are insufficient human data upon which to base an evaluation of risk of TAMIFLU to the pregnant woman or developing fetus” and perhaps even you can begin to see the picture?

According to Dr Pat Doorley, national director of population health in the HSE, the restrictions on Tamiflu are not due to shortages in medicine supplies, but because most people are recovering well without medicine.

So if most people who become infected with so called swine flu are recovering well without the need for pharmaceutical drugs why did Mary Harney spent 88 million of our tax payers money for a dubious vaccine for the same????

Swine flu can hospitalise and kill - the advice, which is not even medically qualifed, not to take tamiflu, is of little use to pregnant women if swine flu kills them. Tamiflu is prescription only and as with all perscriptions - Listen to your Doctor's and pharmacists advice - Not soundbites from Razor, Blondiel or any other non-qualified people. The hundreds of dead people in the UK, who had underlying condtions certainly did not recover well. The vaccine and tamifu are two completely different things.

Chronic cardiac disease?

Ayone who would expose their daughter to the (very high) risk of developing cervical cancer does not believe that "life is precious".

What happens to folk who have asthma and cannot take even the ordinary flu vaccine, as they also live with M.E./C.F.S.

What chance would they have if they took the swine flu vacinne?

Elderflower1, It is impossible to know what the chances of an adverse reaction would be for anybody taking the vaccine as it hasn't been tested fully.

Eldeflower1, The good news for those who cannot take the ordinary flu vaccine is that CBC News recently reported that “Four Canadian studies involved about 2,000 people, health officials told CBC News. Researchers found people who had received the seasonal flu vaccine in the past were more likely to get sick with the H1N1 virus.”

What chance would they have if the contracted swine flu??

Hi all, suspected swine flu, that is what i was diagnosed with just completed the 5 day course of tamiflu, still feeling very tired no sore throat, aches or pains, the headache still there and the slight dizziness, also i have found if i do something tedious (like walk to the bathroom) i seem to get cold sweats, feel dizzy and so tired, still awaiting results from Dr !!!!!!! any advise please.

Hi picnic,

Sorry to hear you are not well. You are most likely over the worst of it now.

My advice; DONT TAKE THE VACCINE!! Its untested and contains mercury.

Get well soon!!

Given that the swine flu is supposedly milder than the ordinary flu I imagine their chances would probably be pretty good Buzz. 

Tell that to those who have suffered seriosuly because of it David. oh wait you cant because they are dead.

Hi picnic, hope you're over the worst of it now. My only advice would be to do as you would do after an ordinary flu. Do NOT over exert yourself, you may worsen you immune condition. Get plenty of sleep, get sunlight or at least daylight if you can at all. Stay well hydrated. If you fell you can eat, eat nourishing foods and perhaps consider a short course of vitamin and mineral supplementation.

Thankfully Buzz severe cases have been rare and very few people have died, much less than have died from the regular flu. 

Here's some more good news from the European Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (ECDC). In a "risk assessment" published on September 25th they have said that there is no sign that the "swine flu" virus is becoming more severe.

Good news from the ECDC David but to say that "very few people have died'" is simply noit true. On a worldwide scale thousands have died from this.

Agreed, though for all those who DID die, the risk, however minimal you may say it is, became a reality for them and a nightmare for their families. Plus there is also the fact that we may not have seen the worst yet.

The deaths on a worldwide scale from this illness are dwarfed by the official statistics for death from the regular flu. This flu virus does not warrant the hysteria the media is creating around it. Relatively speaking very few people have died from the swine flu worldwide. The authorities have admitted that many people may have had the swine flu and are unaware as the symptoms can be so mild as to escape attention.

Viruses mutate all the time which the reason regularly cited for the poor effectiveness of the yearly flu shots. There are many more viruses out there that far more dangerous.  Why is this one being hyped up?

We have now been living with the swine flu outbreak for nearly five months. Infection figures from the Department of Health last week indicated a marked increase in the number of people affected by swine flu. The latest figures would equate to about 3,300 cases of infection a week. However despite the huge amount of infections, there have been only two fatalities, both of whom unfortunately had very serious underlying medical conditions and most likely would have died after becoming infected with ANY pathogenic infection.

There are no vaccines currently available in Ireland and as the above statistics suggest, nor is there any need or requirement for such a vaccine. The HSE has confirmed that 7.7 million vaccinations have been ordered; enough to give everyone in the country two doses.

HSE Assistant National Director of Health Dr Kevin Kelleher said swine flu was a mild disease for the vast majority of people and only a very small proportion of sufferers needed hospital treatment. So where is the justification for our government handing over €88,000,000 of tax payer’s money to pharmaceutical multinationals when they couldn’t find €10,000 for the children’s hospital in Crumlin? Perhaps as Buzz suggests we may have not seen the worst of it yet, especially if we have mass vaccination of the general public! Are we been used as incubators for a more lethal strain contained in the vaccines to further boost the Pharmaceutical cooperation’s profits? Time will tell. One thing is for certain, the nations health is NOT the primary factor!

Hi David I actually am beginning to agree with you on this one. Of course for those who DID die (and even one is cause for concern) the panic was very real and the "hysteria" justified but yes the media have SO much to answer for (especially in this country) they absolutely thrive on bad news and I remain convinced that issues such as the housing market etc would not have been so bad had the media not scare the bej*ysus out of the lot of us!

Hi Razor while I do not agree with your theory that we are being used as incubators for a more virulent strain, I DO share your sentiments re the childrens hospital. Spending 88bn on a vaccine when 10k is much neede for sick children is like penny pinching but throwing away the bigger money. It is indicative of hwo far up in the clouds the government heads actually are. They should be forced to live "a day in the life" and see what it is like to have a sick child being deprived of treatment because of lack of funds.

and another thing on that, it is in the news now about the new childrens hospice which is sadly long overdue. Although it is great that it was funded and given the go ahead it is unacceptable that the wheels had to be put in motion by a couple who were grieving for both their daughters who had died, and who wanted to do something in their memory. How sad that the responsibility for developing a hospice for sick children falls to parents who are bereaved.

Elderflower; a long term sufferer with M.E here and no way would I accept any vaccine. I have had what seems to have been swine flu and am over it. It seems to be a less vicious flu that the one of two winters ago .  Please do not worry. We know that live vaccines are a great risk for us.

Elderflower; a long term sufferer with M.E here and no way would I accept any vaccine. I have had what seems to have been swine flu and am over it. It seems to be a less vicious flu that the one of two winters ago .  Please do not worry. We know that live vaccines are a great risk for us.

As a matter of fact Razor, there have been four deaths but two of those have been recent and only three of those four had underlying conditions, the other did not. Given that the vaccine is being brought in and distributed, clearly there is seen as being a need/requirement for it. It's a good point you make about the childrens hospital. There is money for a vaccine to prevent something that could kill 10 people  - based on a figure of 4 in 5 months a year and then maybe not be heard of again. Yet somehow there wasn't a fraction of that for a vaccine programme to prevent a cancer which kills 90 women every year and leaves thousands more with the devastating and horrific lifelong effects of the disease. I do not buy into the conspiracy theories tho. 

Yes Anonymous I heard that on the news yesterday evening. Yes you are correct 3 out of the 4 had underlying conditions. However information regarding the other poor unfortunate was not disclosed on the request of the family.

No one is asking you to buy into any conspiracy theory. However I would ask you and everyone else, given the amount of anomalies surrounding this entire issue to keep an open mind. It could save your life?

Consider this:

THC a chemical found in cannabis may also be an effective anti-cancer treatment, with studies showing tumor size reduction in mice conducted in 1975 and 2007, as well as in a pilot study in humans with certain types of brain cancer. Research has also shown that past claims of brain damage from cannabis use fail to hold up to the scientific method. Instead, recent studies with cannabinoids show it can even help prevent natural neural degradation from neurodegenerative diseases such as MS, Parkinson's, and Alzheimer's. Why is this valuable information not made public? Could it be that because the synthetic version created by the Pharmaceutical companies was not as effective in treatments as natural THC and therefore no patent = no money?

The mainstream media has a lot to answer for Buzz, no doubt about it. Its main purpose seems to be to increase the level of fear about pretty much everything (except the government-proposed solutions, it seems). I spent two hours in a hospital waiting room last night being bombarded by Sky News. I was surrounded by pregnant women all having to listen to the same four or five stories of child abuse by a nurse, earthquake deaths, an eight-year-old's suicide etc. being repeated over and over again. I'm sure the expectant mothers (who were all anxiously waiting to find out if their babies were ok) were thinking what kind of world are they bringing their child into. It seems to be the same in all the hospitals. I imagine if the hospitals put on some old movie channels instead they might witness a drop in the blood pressure readings of patients being admitted.

That is very interesting about the cancer and canabis, Razor. I'd love to look into it more. David, you were probably lucky to be only waiting the two hours - sadly. Hope whatever was troubling you is better now. Sky "News" I don't regard a news stream and I'd be surprised isf anyone else did either. More 'U.S.-inspired repetitive-stream'.A movie chanel seems like a lovely idea.

thanks Anonymous it wasn't me that was sick and all is well now.

Buzz as someone who worked in the regulatory end of the pharmaceutical industry I would be interested to hear what you make of the fast-tracking of the swine flu vaccine into mass production and the by-passing of the usual testing procedures.

HI David as far as I am aware the "fast tracking" was done as a response to the fact that the spread of the disease itself was "fast tracking"! That said, should we trust anyone 100%?

I have just read that Focetria will be one of the vaccines administered in Ireland and soon. I have also read that it has not been tested on in the elderly, in children, in pregnant women or in adolescents. The intention is to assess the safety and side effects after it has been administered.  

Hi David in this instance I would share your concern.

Hello,

I have a condition called Primary Biliary Cirrhosis and am very worried that I may be among those at high risk? Can anyone enlighten me please?

Thanks.

Hi Carol,

I imagine anyone with the immune system problems would probably be among those the authorities would classify as being at "high risk".

I find it upsetting that as a result of the (in my opinion) unwarranted level of fear being promoted through the media there are many people becoming very nervous. To get this in perspective every year about 5,000 people die of diseases of the respiratory system - pneumonia, bronchitis etc. To date this year how many people have died of this "swine flu"? 4? 

Thanks for that David. I dont think I will be running to get vaccinated though! I fear that more than the Flu. I have never believed in any of them over the years at all.

You are welcome Carol. For what its worth I think you are right.

The HSE is claiming that market research has shown that "about 75 per cent of people are well disposed towards getting the new vaccine". I find that quite hard to believe considering the NHS reckon they will struggle to get over 10-20% of their own frontline staff to take it. It sounds suspiciously like spin to me.

The President of the German Society for General Practioners and Family Medicine, Michael Kochen, has told GPs not to give patients the "swine flu" jab. 

The President of the Association for Doctors for Children and Young People, Professor Wolframg Hartmann has accused the German government of making "false scientific claims" in relation to the vaccine."The risk of damage is greater than the benefit," Hartmann said.

Isnt it amazing the way swine flu wasnt as serious during the run-up to Lisbon? And I am sure it will be less serious in the run up to the December budget... The media have an awful lot to answer for - they blow everything out of proportion and I am wholly sick of them.

This incompetent Government is to give an unlimited indemnity to the manufacturers of the swine ‘flu vaccine to ensure they are not held liable for any possible adverse affects.It means the taxpayer, rather than the multi-national companies behind the drug, would have to foot the bill for any potential compensation settlements.

Despite contrary claims by the HSE these vaccines have not been tested!The European Medicines Agency (EMEA) has granted marketing authorisation to two swine flu vaccines: Focetria produced by Novartis and Pandemrix produced by GlaxoSmithKline. The authorisation has been given in spite of the fact the vaccines have not been tested.“There is currently no clinical experience with Focetria (H1N1) in adults, including the elderly, children or adolescents,” says the EMEA on its pandemic influenza H1N1 website after giving approval to the vaccine on September 24th.http://www.emea.europa.eu/influenza/vaccines/focetria/focetria.htmlIn addition, EMEA states on its pandemic website there is “no clinical experience in the elderly, in children or in adolescents” with pandemrix.

“There is currently very limited clinical experience with an investigational formulation of Pandemrix (H1N1) containing a higher amount of antigen (see section 5.1) in healthy adults aged 18-60 years and no clinical experience in the elderly, in children or in adolescents.”

http://www.emea.europa.eu/influenza/vaccines/pandemrix/pandemrix.html

I have read all the posts and have gotten more information there than anywhere so thank you all!

I'm 10 weeks pregnant and had an extremely bad flu last week, I'm never laid up with any illness but this just wiped me out completely. My doctor brushed it off and said, 'If it continues, come back and we'll sort something out.'

I genuinely believe I had a dose of Swine flu looking at the symtoms and comparing it to what I went through.

Luckily, I dont suffer with an underlying illness as I have now decided that I will definitely NOT be getting the Vaccine as some people reckon it may contribute to cause brain formation problems or Autism.

I think the HSE are useless and in trying to play things down are making things a hell of a lot worse!!!

Hi Chronic Pain Sufferer,

you may have had swine flu or you may not. It is impossible to tell how prevalent the virus is at the moment as the statistics are not based on laboratory testing. It is worth looking up the CBS in America's investigative report into the official statistics. They have discovered that the statistics are being vastly exaggerated.

Meanwhile the Swedish media have reported five deaths linked to the Pandemrix vaccine.

Best wishes for your pregnancy. It is a tough time to be pregnant with the constant fearmongering about this.

Hi,

I am 43, have Angina (heart disease)

My Husband Dave has Bronchitis, and Epilepsy

Jack my son 13 has Asthma

Rebecca my daughter 11 has Asthma

Should we have the vaccine for swine flu?.

I know it has been tested, but what are the side affects?

Its a new drug, should we are shouldn't we?

Kindest regards,

 Julie 

HELLO,

Can anyone out there tell me that if I have the Swine Flu vaccination I will not get the Swine Flu? I am not sure about this.Am I 100% protected?

Thanks.

Hi Carol [PBC]

Did you know Primary Billary Chirosis is considered a "chronic liver disease" ..... see website: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/primarybiliarycirrhosis/index.htm

I was diagnosed in 2003 when I was pregnant with my first child.  My father had it and my older sister has it.  I am 41 years old, my sister is 44.

As with all vaccinations, there are side effects - I had absolutely no hesitation today when I went for my vaccination - [you are guaranteed you will not get swine flu from the jab] but for me I would rather have some form of protection if I were to catch it than not have any vaccination.  I also have an 11 month old child which will also be vaccinated.  My daughter suffers from eczema and asthma so the worry for me was not only if she got it but if she carried it home for me or her brother to catch it. [she was also vaccinated today].

It takes 2 weeks for the vaccination to work.

To posts # 135- 137, I was wondering myself why the government is spending so much on vaccines. Could it be that the economy would lose even more money if everyone got swine flu and had to take a week or 2 off work?

Thank You MagRose. Yes, I had the vaccination last night and so far all is well apart from a very sore arm.So, I still need to take precautions for the nest two weeks? Are you taking Ursofalk for the PBC? I have been taking it for nearly a year now and I wont know if it has made any difference until I get the results of my latest Ultrasound scan.

REgards,

Carol.

I have crohns, sjogrens, coeliac, raynauds, neurodegnerative disorder and hypothyroidism.  is the jab safe for me, i am under 65 by ten years.  my gp surgery is not due to get the vaccine in until next week.

I am not well at present due to exhaustion and overdoing things.  is it safe to turn up at the local hse clinic tomorrow which is INSIDE a general hospital! very strange that!

i cannot fathom the online booking although internet literate! so far failed to 'score' on a booking for tomorrow.

this is absolultely crazy situation.  trying to get my gastroenterologist to actually reply to my quey of whether the jab is safe for me is equally proving impossible, a few emails to his secretary later, no response.

what is wrong with my country, not by choice!

Hello,

I am a type 1 diabteic for 10 years and im not sure what to do about this swine flu vaccine. I dont know the risks involved in relation to actually getting the vaccine. Does it have side effects ?. I know i fall in to the most at risk group but there is so little info regarding this vaccine that im hesitant to get it.

any advice would be very welcome,

Thanks.

Hi Carol,

Yes, do not let your guard down when it comes to swine flu, it is highly contagious - take the usual precautions for the 2 weeks.

As for Ursofalk, yes, I have been taking it since 2003, the purpose of which "stabilises" the condition.  I did a little research into the condition myself and decided to change my lifestyle to see if it made a difference - i stopped drinking completely, cut down on red meat & started eating chicken.  Interestingly, my bloods returned to normal before I got pregnant with my latest addition to the family - he will be 1 in 2 weeks! Got my bloods checked again after I had baby [I stopped taking Urso while pregnant and breastfeeding for 7 months] and they were raised again so am back taking meds.  Hopefully,  when I get checked again they will have decreased again.

How are you finding it yourself? 

i got the vaccine today. i am now more scared of doing that and the results of it than the b...pig pox.

after reading all the posts here, i am now fearful.  i felt i had to get the jab but didnt look on the posts here first...maybe i should have..i just dont know really.

on bed now with a blinder of a headache but very tired anyway as so much is wrong with me in the first place.

Hi Magrose,I dont know how I am doing on the Ursofalk yet.I dont drink at all. I used to.I havent really changed my lifestyle, I think I gave up when I was told I had this disease. I am overweight and am almost afraid to lose weight as I overheard a Doctor say at one time that I soon will lose weight. I dont have any symptoms, itch etc.I had a Gastro Camera down a few weeks ago and I completely lost it so it had to be abandoned for another time, they were looking for varices. This is a horrible disease. I read on a blog today that in order for the vaccination to work a person has to have a good immune system? Where does that leave us? I am 60 years old and just feel doomed. Sorry to be such a moan.

REgards,

Carol. ps, you have your hands full with the small children,are you not exhausted all the time?

Hi Jamie,

Given that its a mild illness and most people who get it are fine after three days a huge absentee rate seems very unlikely. Its hardly as if most businesses are overloaded with work presently, except of course the pharmaceutical industry.

Hope you feel better soon Broken.

Hi Carol, can't offer any opinions on your condition but just a word of advice, if a gastroscope caused manic for you, consider that perhaps you need a a heavier dose of sedation than is usual for the procedure or even consider having it under general aneasethic. David, it is a mild illness only in peope who are not in the high risk categories with no underlying illness. For those with underlying conditions, they can be and have been ill for weeks at a time and some need hospitalisation.

Hi Jamie

Given that the public sector have probably already booked their holidays for their annual sick leave, and the private sector are dragging themsleves out of their deathbeds for fear of losing their jobs, I don't think absenteeism due to swine flu will manifest itself!

Anonymous it is also a mild illness for most of those in the at risk category as well. It is a problem for a tiny minority as are most illnesses.

NO David, for people with autoimmune conditions, it can be very serious and can and does take weeks to recover from.

I started with sore glands and a sore troath..bit feverish(not bad)

no fever now ...but no energy,, going on for a week...

my Doctor said it may be the swine flu..no tests done..

my question when i get well...can i still get the vacine..as i really dont know

if i had swine flu or not...thanks for any help here...

I'm not sure what you are disagreeing with me about Anonymous. I accept that some people with autoimmune problems will suffer badly from this flu as is the case with many other illnesses. I have read nothing however that suggests that most people suffering from autoimmune disorders will not recover quickly and fully. Perhaps you could point me to something that shows otherwise.

Given that the last swine flu vaccine actually caused thousands of cases of autoimmune disorders I would still be more concerned about the vaccine than the illness. 

Apart from anything the following recent article in The Atlantic magazine shows that despite fifty years of flu vaccinations there is little evidence that they work at all. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

David given that the swine flu vaccienE is only a couple of months old, I would LOVE to see any medical evidence that it actually caused thousands of cases of autoimmune disorders?

Anonymous, I responded yesterday but for some reason it was not posted. 

Here is a link to research papers on the CDCs website about the 500 cases (not thousands sorry my mistake) of Guillain-Barre Syndrome caused by the last swine flu vaccine.  

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/emergency/swineflu.htm

The Polish Health Minister (a GP for twenty years) has refused to sign the contracts with the pharmaceutical companies for the swine flu vaccine because the vaccine has not been tested. She also said that the contracts which grant blanket immunity from prosecution or penalties (similar to the ones our government have signed) had more than 20 clauses which are against the law.

The Polish PM is supporting the decision so the Poles will not be getting the vaccines.

Not enough is known about these vaccines. In their present form, they are untested. We do not know how toxic Pandremix may be to babies in the womb, for example, because it was studied in utero only in rats before being released. And, according to GlaxoSmithKline's consent form for Pandremix in Belgium, the vaccination programme is effectively a trial on human subjects. ? The Health Protection Agency has said the safety of these vaccines is 'unknown'. The UK watchdog is concerned about the risk of Guillain-Barré, a syndrome that can cause paralysis and even death. ? The German Medical Association and the Swiss drugs authority have both banned Pandremix for pregnant women, children and youg people under 18 and the over-60s, due to lack of data for these age groups. Adverse reactions, particularly in children and youg people but also in the elderly, have been posted on the Internet. ? Pandremix contains substances of particular concern in pregnancy, thiomersal and squalene. The FDA has refused to license squalene for swine flu vaccines in the US. Squalene has been linked with a range of neurological disorders, from MS to lupus and rhumatoid arthritis. ? And the problem with thiomersal is that it is a mercury compound: its manufacturer, Eli Lilly, says over-exposure to mercury in the womb may lead to intellectual disability and impaired motor co-ordination. ??Even the European Medicines Agency stopped short of recommending the 2 vaccines in use in Ireland, Pandremix and Celvapan, for under-18s. And all the authorities agree that they should not be given to babies under 6 months. But, if they are not safe for small infants, how can these vaccines be safe for babies in the womb? Everything, but everything, crosses the placenta. Finally, a number of women have miscarried shortly after getting the swine flu vaccine. Their posts suggest that pregnant women, like nursing mothers, should think carefully before they vaccinate. ??Only time will tell, unfortunately, whether or not the benefits outweigh the risks.

Jamie,

I am also surprised that the State is spending something like 88 million Euro

on fast-tracked flu vaccines to be given FREE to everyone in the State.

Thanks but I think I will say no to this offer.

There is no such thing as a free lunch!

Hi,

Can anyone clarify whether I am more likely to develop a bad dose of swine flu if I do get it as I am hypothyroid, have fibromyalgia, am neutropenic and have positive ANA??

Thanks

Hi Carol - PBC

I created a new discussion topic under "General Discussions" if you have any questions or concerns re PBC

Hopefully we will hook up with fellow-sufferers and compare stories.

Hope you are Well

I have flu for one week now, not feeling much better, started with sore throat and slight fever, aches and pains etc, headache unbearable just took Paracetamol and stayed indoors. Did not have swab test so dont know if swine flu or not, all I know is it's not like any 'flu Iv'e had before.  Total exhaustion and no appetite whatsoever. I would be wary of the injection as I work in healthcare and none of the doctors would have the vaccine. 

Thanks David, but surely considering this vaccine is new - then it is not the same as the one 20 + years ago which was linked with the cases of GBS. Marie, quite recently a pregnant woman with no underlying conditions - other than pregnancy, died as a result of swine flu. As risks to a pregnancy go - that is about as serious as it gets. Why however do consent forms in Belgium differ from here? Both are EU countries. The very groups which are being recommended to get the vaccine here, it seems are being "banned" from getting it in Germany! As for things "posted in the internet" - unless it is from a reliable medical source, you can hardly expect anyone to take it seriously can you. There is a vaccine available without thiomersal - it is being used in Germany and it is that which is being supplied to medical personel, government employees and armed forces. Redz, hypothyroid and fibromyalgia alone would indicate an immuno-compromised condition. Zuppy, it is healthcare workers and doctrs who were the very first to be provided with the vaccine in order to protect not only themselves but patients as well.

has anyone got their 3 year olds vaccinated against swine flu?  had they any side effects and if so what were they?

thanks in advance

I have lymphocytocis,haematology report said" r/o CLL".I have had seasonal 'flu vaccine in early Oct. and had "Asian 'flu" in 1957. Is it safe or necessary for me to have H1N1 vaccine?I've also had CVA with resultant (L)hemiparesis in 2008 .Still recovering.Your views pro and con would be appreciated.Thanks.

Lolene,

The following recent article in The Atlantic magazine (based on a paper from the British Medical Journal) shows that despite fifty years of flu vaccinations there is little evidence that they work at all. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200911/brownlee-h1n1

Lolene, the best person to advise you wpuld be a medical professional - your GP or the specialist who looks after you lymphocytocis and CVA. There is a reason why professional specialists have spent many years becoming expert in their chosen speciality

Yes, Anonymous, a pregnant woman with no underlying conditions is believed to have died from swine flu. While every death is a tragedy, we need to keep one death out of a possible 60 000 in perspective, however. Her death was used to push HSE’s vaccination programme, yet she may have died due to failure to administer timely and appropriate medical treatment. The risk benefit equation is far from clearcut, contrary to what you suggest. Neither vaccine has been tested on pregnant women or on the human fetus. The toxicity of Pandemrix in the womb was studied only in rats, for example, while the pharmacology data on Celvapan came solely from mice. Both the British Health Protection Agency and the Association of British Neurologists have compared the current swine flu vaccine with the swine flu vaccine used in the US in the 1970s. Last July, the Agency wrote to 600 neurologists in Britain warning them that the current swine flu vaccine could trigger Guillain-Barré syndrome, based on the experience of the American swine flu vaccination programme in the 1970s. The Association of British Neurologists also alerted its members, noting that there had been an eight-fold rise in Guillain-Barre following the rollout of that vaccination programme in the US. As for posts on the Internet from mothers who miscarried shortly after being vaccinated, individual case histories written by doctors have always formed part of medical science. Is it not arrogant to dismiss case histories that are written by women? Of course, I understand that there is a long medical tradition of discounting women as mothers: they have been excluded from what is known about pregnancy and childbirth. But who knows more about her pregnancy, the pregnant woman who lives it or the doctor who sees her for five minutes? Finally, the consent forms in use in Belgium are for employees of GlaxoSmithKline. Canadadian medical authorities have just withdrawn almost 200 000 doses of their swine flu vaccine, Arepanrix, after it killed 200 people in Manitoba, and led to a severe allergic reaction in 37 others.

Marie. the swine flu vaccine here is new - so how could it be the same as the one in the U.S. in the 70s?

The side effect of the swine flu in pregnant women is death - there is no greater side effect.

The Canadian vaccine is not relevant here.

The HSE has confirmed that there have been no miscarriages here as a result of the vaccine and nor is there any evidence to suggest an incease in GBS here.

The pulling together of irrelevant data does not make them relevant facts.

A pregnant womans death has "been used to push the vaccine" but if a woman were to die from the vaccine this too would be used to push for no vaccine. People will always cherry pick. That doesnt make their points relevant. So what if her death had scared people into taking the vaccine? Its just as bad (if not worse) to use AE's to scare people into NOT taking vaccines...and this is something that the ant-vacc crowd use a LOT....

I think there is enough information among all these posts for people to be able to make an informed decision (no thanks to the HSE or the mainstream media). 

One last point I'd make: the flu season is over in the Southern hemisphere and it seems to have been a relatively mild one in comparison to previous years.

Seeing as we are not being generally informed of the contents of the various untested swineflu vaccines it is then our own responsibility to seek it out ourselves before we are coaxed coerced or compelled to offer our arms for the flu jab.As there is little difference between seasonal and h1n1 flu symptoms the data itself could be in error.The best immunity is to live right and build up resistence to all unnaturally induced diseases and vaccines. regards, ecosave.

Ecosave, the datra sheet is freely available both from GPs administering the vaccine and from the maufacturers. No-one will coerce or compel ANYONE - not even at risk groups, to have the vaccinE against their will. The difference between H1N1 and seasonal influenza can be confirmed with a blood test. For at-risk groups such as young children, athsmatics, those whoi are immuno-comprimised / suppressed and pregnant women, no amount of "living right" will prevent them becoming infected if they come in contact with them - as the deaths and serious cases can attest to.

Anonymous, It seems to me that accurate mapping of the spread of these different forms of flu is required. Can you give us the total number of H1N1 cases that have been blood test confirmed in Ireland (ROI) since last September (as near as possible to date)? And how many blood test confirmed cases are there in ROI of seasonal flu over the same period? Can you break down these figures for young children, asthmatics, those whose immune systems are compromised or suppressed and pregnant women? Without these figures, it seems to me, those who feel under pressure to vaccinate remain in the dark, to a degree.

Marie as you probably very well know, it is the HSE you will need to request this information from, not posters to discussion threads.

If the h1n1 virus is losing its potency, as has been reported,and by all accounts is almost similar to regular flu then what is the great rush to vaccinate with this untested combination of various adjuvants ie.mercury and scaulene to name just two.I believe we have right to know how many doses the HSE has contracted for,how much it is costing the taxpayer,what happens to doses not voluntarily taken up, have they storage facilities in place,have they got blanket immunity in case of any serious adverse reactions.I am not sure if the FOI act covers this.Is it advisable that doctors administer h1n1 vaccine and regular flu vaccine at the same visit.A chap I know got these two shots together,and wouldnt you know it,he got the flu! regards, ecosave.

On numbers rather than potency: I have now established the position on reliable data collection. There is none! We have no idea whatsoever how many cases of swine flu are out there or have ever been out there. Last summer, Tony Holohan, chief medical officer with the department, ruled out lab testing. “The number of laboratory confirmed cases has ceased to be a meaningful measure of the burden of the infection in the population”, he said. This was last July. So before the swine flu had even begun to take hold, HSE had 'moved' to a policy of coming up with numbers of cases through GP diagnosis instead of laboratory testing. The number of cases were be estimated weekly using a 'sample' of 50 GP practices. How scientific is this?

hi, all

can anyone tell me that where i got swine flu vaccine?

The reason for the rush to vaccinate is the danger for at-rosk groups. And no, it is not advisble to administer the swine flu vaccine at the same tinme as a the tregular vaccine. My clinic at the hosp recommends a 2 week gap. Are you sure your friends didn't merely get a heavy cold or a chest infection. An aewful lot of poeple are very foind of saying "I have the flu" when it is simply a heavy cold - but of course a cold sounds far less serious and far less important than the flu. Marie, if the numbers are thru GP diagnosis - then how can you possibly say there is no data?Hir, most GPs and clinics provide the vaccie to at-risk groups.

Hey ecosave

just to comment about you message they actually made an 88 million euro contract with the big pharma's,for a flu that is milder than the normal seasonal flu,there are stats out the that say 500,000 die from the regular flu so why the big hype about a flew that has only killed 10,000 or more.its fear mongering propaganda,keep the people crippled with fear,and make huge profit of them.problem,reaction,solution.they create the prob,we react and come back as the good guys and jump in and save us.research the the 1976 swine flu were it was released in an army barracks in the usa they vaccinated 50 million,one person died from the swine flu and dozens died from the vaccine and thousands got seriously ill many with the guillian barre syndrome.not way my my family is taking a mercury squalene riddin vaccine that is linked to autisum and other neurologicol conditions!

Anyone could coud post "only killed 10,000" - about ANY disease needs to take a good long look at themselves.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of GPs take the vaccine.Do they know much more than the general public about the short and potentially dangerous long term side effects of adjuvant loaded injections?I see the HSE is renegotiating with the vaccine supplier to roll back on the number of doses needed in Ireland.As we have no facilities to accurately test for h1n1 virus then it has to guesswork for the most part.If we constantly rely on substitute immune treatments for ANY virus,natural or manufactured,then our own natural individual and community protection would be redundant in the foreseeable future. I believe we ought to wean ourselves off medication as much as possible and get back to being the healthy people we're very capable of.We have the right to be our own healers by hanessing Nature and our own COMMON SENSE.

hi im pregnant at the mo and when i went to my doc for my check up i asked about the swine flu injection. he said the decision was mine but he would not give it to his wife if she was pregnant as there is not enough evidence that it wont cause medical problems in later years . when the big hype about the swine flu first started the doctors were against vaccinating and all of a sudden most of them are now handing it out to their patients and as far as i know no further testing on the vaccine has been carried out. is this because they have been promised cash bonuses for filling their quotas or is their some other reason

It is a very personal decision and your doctor was right to say he can't influence you, I think he was out of line telling you what he would or not support the vaccine, as this quite obviously IS influencing your decision.

There is plenty of reading material out there which is unbiased and presents the pros anc cons in a factual, non agenda way and from this you should be able to make an informed decision.

Although I would support the vaccine I will say that I think the media have people very scared. Of course it can be a serious condition but the media HAVE blown it up out of proportion so this is something to remember.

Whatever choice you make I hope it works out for you and good luck with the pregnancy.

Ecosave, unless underlying auto-immune conditions are present, then it doesn't make sense to CONSTANTLY on immune treatments in ADDITION to our own immunity for EVERY virus (no concrete scientific evidence that this one is manufactured) but there are specific infections and specific cases where is makes good medical (and common) sense to treat with something which is effecient and effective alongside our own immune system - be that an anti-viral, antibiotic or vaccination. This has not made our own natural immunity (where it is string enough to be somewhat effective) redundant. No one takes medication for fun - we take it where it is required and neccessary and ANY attempt to "wean" off medicvally perscribed medication should ONLY EVER be done so WITH THE SUPERVSION OF QUALIFIED MEDICAL PERSONEL - any attempts to do so without medical supervision can be DANGEROUS. It may seem like stating the obvious but you'd be surpried. Yes, the vast majority of people are capable of being healthy but many will from time to time need qualified medical help to prevent illness or when they become ill. 

Sabs,

I think you are correct in saying there has been no further testing. There was little or no clinical data available when Celvepan was pushed on the public. What is disturbing is the failure to study the side-effects of this vaccine properly. The authorities have relied on a passive recording system which will not give an accurate picture. Within the small circle of my family I know of at least six relatives who had bad reactions to the vaccine ranging from vomiting and diarrhea to severe arm pain (to the point of not being able to use the arm for days) and extreme fatigue. None of these reactions were reported and I suspect that this is the case in many circumstances.

The other thing worth considering is that vaccines are claimed to be effective for long periods of time yet there are little or no studies to see what side effects might occur over long periods of time.

david

ya my neighbour got her kids the vaccine. 2 out of 3 kids got vomiting and diarrhoea and the mother herself got bad pain in her arm. im not big on over medicating children anyway unless they cant shift an illness them selfs i just cant believe so many parents would let a doctor inject something into their children that hasnt been proven to be 100% safe

Sabs it is not your place to judge parents who made the decision to have their children vaccinated. They were doing the best that they knew...the same way that others do the best that THEY know how to by not getting them vaccinated. I hardly think they are intentionally vaccinating their children through negligence.

It is a principle in responsible medical practice that people are fully informed of what ingredients are in any vaccine before innoculation,as well as any possible or probable adverse reactions from the jab.Every doctor is issued with an insert which comes with the delivery of vaccines which people have a right to know about because it contains a list of ingredients and expected adverse reactions.Very few people even know this information exists! Good nutrition builds strong immunity leading to better health and hopefully less visits to GPs and hospitals where it's possible to pick up another infection as,especially hospitals,the environment is not conducive to robust good health and freedom from further toxins.The culture of the over prescribing of pharmaceutical promoted medications can oniy be changed by people themselves being empowered with knowledge,self reliance and self healing Of course this might mean less ''health professionals''.Whatever happened to natural approach to health! Has it been driven to near extinction by ''modern''medicine.regards, ecosave.

Ecosave, anyone can get the package insert from their Dr for EVERY medication they are on. In fact, everyone can get the package insert from the manufacturer for a medication they're even interested in - I have done this. The point about nutrition is an obvious one, an obvious requirement and not exactly "self-healing" (whatever that is supposed to mean) - but perhaps it should be taught in schools.

im not judging people and when they make the decision to give it to the children im sure there doing what they think is best but speaking from what i no and the people i have spoke too they them selfs have told me that they know nothing about the vaccine and have not looked into it at all. most of them seem to be getting the vaccine because they think its the thing to do. most people dont question there gp on any decision he makes they take his word as law. all doctors are only human and can make mistakes too. im just saying if any parent has even 1% doubt about it or isnt sure what to do maybe they should just wait and look into it a bit further.

Hello all,

very interesting comments mostly, on this thread.

I highly recommend analysing the Royal College of Surgeons textbooks which include fascinating revelations from long ago on the impact of various vaccines.

Each and every graph shows a steady decline in reported cases from the early 1900's. Most vaccines seem to have been introduced since the 1950's and have not affected the downward trend.

Look this up for yourselves. Continue to educate yourself.

Well done and thank you to all who take time to express an opinion. 

Sorry sabs but what you actually said was

just cant believe so many parents would let a doctor inject something into their children that hasnt been proven to be 100% safe

Are you now backtracking on that judgement?

Ecosave this information IS made available to those who are actually interested or bothered you know.

Yes nutrition is important but it cannot guarantee immunity from contagious disease.

Its hardly surprising Buzz that parents had their children injected with a substance that has not been proved to be 100% safe considering the fear that was generated about the swine flu "pandemic". As you said yourself Buzz "The media have an awful lot to answer for - they blow everything out of proportion"

My last post as to graphical statistics on the history of vaccines as published by Her Majesty's Stationary Office, should have read "reported deaths" and not just "reported cases". Reported deaths is far more valid.

Apologies.

I have not heard of anyone being offered the insert voluntary by any doctor anywhere in Ireland.People are just handed the hse leaflet.

As is now established without a doubt there is no h1n1 virus pandemic.Yet people are still getting injected with vaccines that in my opinion have not been properly tested which goes against the Nuremberg Code. The general populations are no more than guineypigs for big pharma stockholders! regards ecosave

I had the swine flu jab back in November.  I felt pressured into it as I was 23wks pregnant and suffer with asthma. I lasted 19days and gave birth to a baby boy at 25wks gest. it has totally opened my eyes to a whole different world. our baby is ok hes 8wks old now its been a very rocky road for us. he was just over 1lbs born and is at 2lbs now. I have talked to so many women over the last 2 months n everyone of them has had pre term babies after havin the swine flu jab. nobody lasted anymore than 3wks before givin birth. when I had my son I asked if it was something to do wit the jab and was answered (no comment). there was not enough research done before we were all bullied and frightened into gettin it, so anyone out there think twice before u decide on it.

Yes david I do remember what i said thank you, and I remain clear on my stance regarding the media. That however does not change my stance on the swine flu vaccine, nor does it mean that I wont react when someone tries to judge other people for doing what they believe to be best for their childre ie getting them vaccinated

Ecosave the Nuremburg Code actually pertains to those undergoing clinical trials NOT those who are being vaccinated by a licensed drug.

Ecosave, have you ASKED those people whether they ASKED for the insert or not?

I got the Swine Flu Injection last October. The Vacine was Celvapan. I was told at the time that i would be called for a second Injection but i heard nothing since.?? Should i have herad by now.

Johnb

Just got letter from my daughters' school to do the vaccination for Swine Flu. Little or no information was given with the leaflet. Bit concerned now as whether to go ahead or not. Are the stats for Swine Flu correct in that it is not as prevelant as they thought it would be?

HI Cyprus Mum, No the swine flu is not nearly as prevalent as thought. More people have died from the seasonal flu than swine flu. Please take the time to read up on the ingredients and side effects of this vaccine. It has not been tested properly and if you read up on the list of ingredients you may reconsider giving your child this vaccination. If you are happy with the ingredients,

"Officials from the Department of Health said it had granted indemnity to the two companies, which would leave the State picking up the bill in the event of anyone being damaged by the vaccine"

from the Sunday Tribune, February 7:

WHO chief: H1N1 alert an 'angst campaign' stoked by drug firms

"...German Professor Ulrich Keil, who is director of the WHO's centre for epidemiology at the University of Muenster, and a senior adviser to the organisation for over 35 years, also said in an interview with the Sunday Tribune that "there is no H1N1 pandemic"."

I wonder if any of the people who died here from swine flu had taken the vaccine.

answer for johnb my son also got that vacine, we were told he didnt need second injection unless you suffer with severe alergies, or leukimia or major illnesses.

Thankfully there are alot of people who were'nt taken in or fooled by the hysteria, alarm and fear that was generated by a gullible media and unaccountable HSE, when they were promoting various vaccines, all claiming to prevent people getting sick, or worse, from a harmless virus that should never have got level 6 pandemic status.It seems we were supposed to take the risk while big pharma gets the benifits$! regards, ecosave,

ecosave, while agree with you about hysteria etc. I will point out that the WHO Pandemic scale of 1 to 6 is about how the virus is spreading, not about the ferocity of the virus. Phase 1 - no animal influenza in circulation has infected humans Phase 2 - animal infleuenza infects humans Phase 3 - sporadic or small cases of animal to human infections, no human to human Phase 4 - human to human infection at community level Phase 5 - Sustained human to huam infection at community level in two or more countries in one WHO region Phase 6 - same as phase 5 but added outbreak in at least one country in another WHO region.

Q.does anyone know if the swine flu injection damage the kidney? lorraine

this is for peggy, the vacine does not damage kidneys as my niece is point 5 reflux of the kidneys and she got the vaccine