Concern on HSE's bonus bonanza

  • Niall Hunter, Editor

Concern about the level of bonuses paid recently to top HSE managers was not confined to the public or the media. has learned that the level of bonuses paid to some HSE officials last year also caused concern not only to a key member of the HSE board, but also to the HSE CEO, Prof Brendan Drumm.

Around 100 HSE managers shared €1.4 million in bonus payments last autumn in respect of their performance in their jobs during 2007.

The bonuses were paid out as the HSE faced major difficulties in living within its allocation for 2008. These difficulties have increased in 2009, with nearly €1 billion in cutbacks expected this year.

Bonus payments ranging up to €30,000 were paid to top HSE officials last year, according to documentation seen by

The documentation also reveals that reservations about the level of bonuses paid in some cases were made at HSE board level and by the HSE CEO, Prof Brendan Drumm.

However, in spite of these reservations, the bonuses were eventually approved by Prof Drumm last August.

The payment of the bonuses at a time when the HSE is making major cutbacks to live within its reduced allocation has caused a public furore.

Correspondence released under FOI shows that last July, Donal de Buitleir, HSE board member and chair of its remuneration committee, pointed out to Prof Drumm that the Board accepted his recommendations for staff bonuses but had asked him to consider reducing some of the awards recommended so that they would come within the 0% to 5% of salary range.

Mr de Buitleir is also a senior executive with AIB Group.

In June, Prof Drumm had recommended that in the case of National Directors within the HSE, they should get bonuses equivalent to 7% to 16% of salary in respect of their 2007 performances.

He said the National Directors had in turn recommended that Assistant National Directors, Hospital Network Managers and other senior managers get awards ranging from 5% to 15% of salary.

The correspondence shows that Prof Drumm had a number of concerns in relation to some award recommendations made by the National Directors. He said he had requested a review of these bonuses in advance of endorsing them.

However, he said he had been advised by Human Resources within the HSE "that it would be difficult to reduce awards for performance year 2007 at this stage."

Following the letter from Mr de Buitlear in July, Prof Drumm wrote to the HSE's Human Resources Director Sean McGrath recommending that the awards now be paid.

However, that the recommendation that some awards be reduced to the 0% to 5% range does not appear to have been taken up by the CEO.

Prof Drumm said: "I expressed some concerns about some of the awards but considering this further and the fact that we are proposing to alter our approach to performance-related awards in 2008, I wish now to proceed with payment."

A table of the level of awards paid shows that National Directors received bonuses ranging from €11,000 to €31,000, and senior staff in the National Hospitals Office received between €6,600 and €17,000. Senior staff in the Estates section received bonuses varying from around €11,000 to €16,000, while senior staff in the CEO's office received bonuses of between €8,000 and €12,000.

The correspondence shows that the HSE bonus payments scheme is to be reviewed in relation to payments for 2008 and beyond. Mr de Buitleir, in his correspondence with Prof Drumm, said the HSE board would expect to see more awards in the 0% to 5% range from 2008.

He said it should be clearly communicated that performance awards are to reward exceptional perfromance and the pool of funds available for the bonuses "is a limit and not an entitlement".

There has as yet been no confirmation from the HSE as to whether it will be paying a bonus to Prof Drumm in relation to his 2007 performance. He would be due around €80,000 in bonus payments, but it is understood that this has not yet been paid.

The HSE is planning to make savings of nearly €1 billion this year to live within its budget.

The HSE had planned to review its bonus scheme for top officials in relation to 2008 and future years. While top HSE managers would normally be in line for more bonuses later this year, these are thought unlikely to be paid out as a result of the worsening crisis in the public finances.


hammer - 16/02/2009 13:43

"However, in spite of these reservations, the bonuses were eventually approved by Prof Drumm last August."

was he afraid he wouldn`t get his bonus if he didn`t sign off on it?


CATHY - 16/02/2009 20:29

We should all try to get a job to work in the management of HSE, no fear, no work, more money and bonuses.

brandy - 18/02/2009 19:04

Hello hammer et al,

"cuis custodiet ipsos custodes" (or words to that effect): we should all remember this latin phrase, which means....the fox is guarding the hen-house...or, more appropriate to Ireland....the shepherd is watching the sheep....but who is keeping an eye on the shepherd?

The Irish government, in ALL it's departments, is supposed to be the steward (shepherd) of our country....not to be an 'inverted Robin Hood'....robbing the poor and giving to the rich!!

These latest HSE revelations do not surprise us any more....we know that there is (and has been since before and after Haughey) a coterie of wonderful/special people...who have been laughing at the 'idiot' prsi tax-payer for years !

The above, I fear, will pale to insignificance if the real truth re the banks and the 'favoured' hits the news this space !!

Banana Republic ?  YOU BETCHA !!!

KarlMarcks - 19/02/2009 15:21

More of the same...

Normalperson - 19/02/2009 15:36

What do you expect, the system is set up to depend on trust. we trust the government to use our taxes wisely, we trust them to pay themselves a fair days pay for a fair days work, we trust the finance institutions to invest our savings wisely and securely, NOT TO STEAL IT AS BONUSES AND LOANS...                                       

We trust capitalism to work fairly for all...


sceptical - 19/02/2009 19:09

Why is nobody surprised? Why does nobody believe a word that issues forth from the mouth of any government representative or their lackeys in the Health and Civil services. Maybe because, in a country with a population equating to Greater Manchester, we apparently believe we need 126 TDs. We apparently believe we need to pay the President and Brian Cowan double the money earned by the President of the USA. WHAT!! To pay TDs more than US Senators or MPs in any other European country? If the salaries and benefits and arrogance, is not evidence of 'jobs for the boys', I'd like to know what is.

A FF government of political families who take it as their 'right' to rule. The true gauge of a Banana Republic - political power and prestige handed down from father to son or daughter, huge salaries and benefits (expenses!). A culture of 'who you know' and to Hell with merit. The 'Golden Circle' of business, banks, Civil Servants and lawyers; the 'dig outs', the Galway 'tent' and the billionaires who pay no tax. All of these are redolent of Banana Republics in Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe.

And it doesn't stop there. In a country with the worst health service in Europe we pay 30,000 Euro bonuses to people who already earn salaries most of us could only dream about. We pay people who do not know what they are doing.

Dr Fergus O'Farrell (Adelaide Hospital Dublin), has been presenting a Universal Health Plan, costed, and planned on successful European models to the FF government for over 5 years. Nothing doing! Mary Harney, she who is the arch Corporate Capitalist, prefers to impose an American Health system. Those who 'can' pay huge insurance premiums; those who 'can't' are welcome to die. That's why Barack Obama is a symbol of HOPE for the 50+ percentage of Americans who can't afford to be sick.

That's why, returning after nearly 30 years working in the UK, I am stunned. In every part of the UK (including the North), medical care is FREE. It is paid for by workers' National Insurance contributions (the UK version of PRSI). Nobody pays to see a GP, nobody pays for A & E, nobody pays for an operation, nobody pays to see a specialist - except those who choose to "go private". That is, they can choose their own specialist and have their own private rooms in hospital.

The terrible, terrible thing is, for the majority, having to come to an understanding of corruption and betrayal. The betrayal of the dedicated men who fought and died in 1916; what happened to the principles in the Declaration of the Republic? We need to take to the streets in huge numbers, like in France. It is an indictment on the rest of us that the over-70s led the way and FORCED the government to do a U-turn on medical cards.

Make no mistake, it is not that a better health service is impossible, it is simply that we have a government whose corporate arrogance won't allow it to learn anything.

Peter 47 - 19/02/2009 21:18

What are we to believe ??

There is a GOLDEN Circle ??

Ten people get a huge loan from a financial institution.

They then buy a load of shares in the financial institution.

and Hey Presto... The shares are worth millions more than the purchace price, a few days later...

I don't understand how it worked, but why are the government institutions not doing this.

it would solve our money troubles after a few dozen transfers.

I for one would be in favour of the people responsible for re shuffeling the financial debt, to receive the just reward in bonuses, which they would then deserve...... Is there any truth in the rumor that every one in the country owes 30 cent a day, acumulating all the time? the big question is ... when did this start, I have never borrowed 30 cent a day, from anyone ever...

I said it before, when you turn on your telly to watch " today in the Dail" and see only a few in the government benches, it means they are trying to get voted out, on any excuse as soon as a vote can be aranged...

will a change of government happen ??? probably not, there are enough idiots around to vote the same way as they always did, and then complain to the media, that the voting must have been rigged, or should we be using the second hand voting machines, which are costing more per week than a blind person has on his pension..... central heating ?? lighting ??? security ??

Question ??? is your pension being CUT ???

Are all the current members of the Dail, who are back benchers at the moment, allowed to draw the pension on the ministerial positions they previously held???

I heard an afirmative on that one, not one but sometimes several at the same time???

Was the budget cancellled ??? or is the increase to my social welfare payments coming anytime soon............ Back, after a few months "treatment", Peter 47

Constance - 20/02/2009 09:58

A bonus that equates to more than a year's salary for another poor mortal living in the same country with the same cost of living - how inequitable and polarised our country has become! how do these people justify their bonus in such a shambles of an organisation - lack of timely access to assesment of needs for anyone over 5, lack of speech and language therapists, occupational therapists, psychologists and psychiatrists....... for children who are not developing typcially, lack of supports for people in general with disabilities, lack of timely access to consultants, long waiting times in A&E and follow on clinics - how do these guys actually earn their bonus?

Anonymous - 20/02/2009 10:23

I think maybe you're right hammer.

Wise words Brandy.

hammer - 20/02/2009 12:17

Roll on the Revolution.

They can only DUMP on us for so long.

If someone offered us shares worth 30 million and a loan of 30 million with no downside we would all of taken it. Its the THICK bankers and Govt that let this happen that are to blame. ( it was to save the economy - stupid.)

Is there anyone with a brain out there that believes that the Central Bank and Financial Regulator didn`t inform the Govt. of this deal and that Brian Lenihan never READ certain sections on Anglo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Anonymous - 20/02/2009 12:42

Excellent points Sceptical.

I wonder Peter could you point me to that article about owing 30 cent per day? Is that the interest on govenment debt or is it referring to our personal debts? I can see how it would be realistic tho' considering most of us have or have had mortgages and I'm sure many have car loans etc.

Peter 47 - 20/02/2009 17:09

Hello Anon

The 30 cent per day, per person ( all ages ) was the presumed amount being lost as repayments on our National Debt.

This is before the Debt was Nationalised, by the Citizens of our great country who bought out the Bank debts. I have no idea what the bail out funding is costing us, or indeed I don't know if anyone (including the dept. of finance ) knows what the figures are.

It is a definite fact that the question has been asked of the Minister for finance by Vincent Browne, and no answer was forthcoming,  just the usual garbage answer of the good things which are happening since FF gave a helping hand to the financial houses.

The first figures proposed were well in excess of the figures proposed for the USA.... Brian Cowen in Dail Chamber ... but were dismissed as a "typo in his reading of the notes in his hand.. and excused on the national news that night . Personaly I cannot comprehend money in the 9 zeros range,,,, how many millimeters in a mile.??? You have to multiply by 2.54 or is that Kilos or Dollars ???

This thread started on discussing the bonuses accepted by our department heads in the HSE. The HSE is NOT controlled by the Department of Health, it is vice versa to this-the HSE runs the Department of Health. Poor Mary Harney has no say at all in matters like this, nor has she any say in how many people are employed in this executive or the rates of pay they are on. All we know from the Opposition research is that the hundreds of extra staff employed to squander the funding promised under the "Disability Act" was spent on office staff and equipment and on "training" the staff, how to fob off people with disabilities who were looking for equal treatment, under the "act"



QUACK - 20/02/2009 19:45

The biggest industry in the country,THE SICKNESS INDUSTRY ,is sicker than ever. When will the people of this little isle wake up to the realisation that their health is their very own responsibility and nobody elses. As an 81 years young believer in Ronnie Plant's maxim I practice his slogan of nine words. 'WE ARE AS WE EAT, SLEEP,DRINK AND EXERCISE' .My daily dose of 11 prescribed medicines has now been reduced to one aspirin. I have also been able to leave aside my walking stick.

anon - 21/02/2009 21:53

A very well written article, but what a shame that these bonuses are being paid to people whose jobs are secure, while thousands are out of work. I would be interested to know how many H.S.E. managers there are in total.

Anonymous - 23/02/2009 09:47

Yes Quack, your health is your own responsibility, but sometimes, regardless of how well we eat, sleep, exercise and look after ourselves, our health breaks down and that is when we need to hand over that responsibility to the people with the skills to care for and cure us and right now, they seem to be doing a singularly bad job of it.

sceptical - 23/02/2009 12:50

In my last post, I said "We pay people who do not know what they are doing" but I think it is actually worse than that. We pay senior civil servants who are only concerned with maintaining their own status; people who are entrenched in a system which, benefits one strata of society (large salaries, bonuses, power) AND at the same time, protects our elected representatives from accountability.

WHY is Mary Harney 'run' by the HSE? In any other country in Europe, the 'buck stops at the top'. The system in Ireland allows a person who is elected to oversee "the greatest good of the greatest number", i.e. the citizens of a Republic, to abdicate all responsibility BECAUSE the managers and civil servants 'run' the Minister!! Where is the logic?

The 'buck' has no natural destination in Ireland. There is a legal system which protects civil servants - ergo Neary (the Financial regulator) can allow his friends in the banking system to bankrupt the country but still walk away protected by legislation specifically placed to protect senior civil servants. Never mind the reward of 100,000+ Euro for doing the government the favour of resigning thereby closing down questions, he also gets a full pension of E120,000 per annum + a lump sum ++++++ what else

The same with Mary Harney. In other countries Health Ministers resign if they are found to be inadequate for the job. All those reports, committees, promises; money wasted; a Canadian brought in at huge expense.

All they had to do was take a walk over the border to see an efficient, universal health service. Which, literally saved my life in 2001 when ambushed by an illness from which 90% of those affected die. NO MONEY changed hands. I did not lie on a trolley in a stinking A&E unit. I was seen, diagnosed and wired up to life-saving equipment all within the space of one hour.

Ergo, it can be done. My daughter had a similar experience in France. I know people who live in Germany who can't speak too highly of the health provision they enjoy. Reports from the Scandinavian countries show excellent health services. Why, with all these examples to learn from, is Ireland on a par with a Third World dictatorship?

This government has run out of excuses. The system is not only 'flawed' but corrupt, they have betrayed the people, nobody at the top is held accountable for anything. One can only conclude they, government and civil servants are not 'fit for purpose'. Either they haven't the intelligence to implement proper, MORAL, effective, government or else, they are using whatever brains they possess to accumulate wealth and status for themselves and their immediate families. I, and many others, now believe the latter is the case.

Peter 47 - 23/02/2009 13:28

Hi Anon.

I have just took a peek at some Employment figures for the health service...

These figures are from 2000 - 2006, which is the last year details available...

Any wonder we are in financial difficulty, if the books are 3 years out of date...

Some figures as follows.

Total Management/ Admin......... 12, 366.44 (how do you get .44 people)


Total Nursing...............................29, 177.28

Total Paramedical (therapist, technicians, social workers, radiographers, )


Total Support Services.... (ambulance service, catering, attendants, electricians,plumbers, mechanics, workshop technicians,

Beauticians/hairdresser/barber. (19.6)

............ 1,533.14

Personnel census total 2000 * ............ 81,512.96 people (2006)

2006 stats...

Medical Dental 7 %

Nursing 35 %

Health and Social Care Professionals 14 %

Management / Administration 16 %

General Support Staff 12 %

Patient and Client care 16 %

As we can see, if we allow 50 % dentist as staff

this is 54.5 % patient care

45.5 % Administration

How transparent is that,,, or what ???

Looking at the most curent 2006 statistics bar chart.

Nursing Staff up from (1997) 3,750 - 8,900 (2,006) ... more than 50% ***

Management / Administration (1997)3,000 - (2006) 4,800 = 50% +

Statistics are all verry well, % can show anything you want it to,

Where are the comparison figures for the grand total, 81,512.96 persons in 2006

Are the missing people all on leave due to overwork ???


So if "Staff" numbers went up over 50% in 8 years (2 years obsolete figures)

How many non esential Administrators, have we on our payroll ???

That spent a wasted hour to find out how many employees WE have.

It's a bit more difficult to find the "Wages and Bonuses" files ???

How transparent do you think they are???


Now back to more domestic duties, bye. Peter 47Foot in mouth


Peter 47 - 23/02/2009 14:33


Hello Quack

You deserve a round of aplause ...Surprised

We do live in a SICK society.

We have a sick Government. We also have a sick population, which allows this sickness to fl0urish.

Years ago when it was them and us, it was considered a good move, to pull a stroke, workimg a few days, while signing the dole, or staying off work a few extra days on a sickie...

Well there is no Them and Us now .....

It is all up to us, and the strokes are being pulled by the Fat Cats of society,

Did they lears from us ???

Pulling a stroke was admired when we were under British Imperial Opression

almost "patriotic",,, now it is the fat cats in positions of trust who are sinfuly abusing their position, time and again.. (THIS IS CALLED DEMOCRACY)

I thaught the "Golden Circle", were a dozen fly boys with an ear to the inside track, in high places... (INSIDER TRADING),,, NO,,, JUST DIG OUTS...

Now we find out there are possibly loads of them, ????? BORROWED, what over 40 Billion ???, and wo'nt give it back... then The said financial Institution was bought out on OUR behalf and the existing borrowings, WRITTEN OFF ,

How cool is that, why did WE not get a chance at that slice of the cake....

... We are the people who were told we were going to pay for it for the next several generations ????

Where was the Stock exchange watchdog, where was the FINANCIAL CONTROLLER,where was the "National Bank" Why was the takeover transaction, passed into law when our Teashact did not read the large print, never mind the small print.???

Why will the golden circle never be named ???


hammer - 24/02/2009 16:26

Peter, they will be named.

Just not yet. They all have to get their stories right first.

When did the Dept of Finance know about this deal, when did the Regulator know?


Probably be released the same day that Ireland inc files for bankruptcyCool

Chrissie - 24/02/2009 19:08

Re: Peter's 47 Posting particularly (WE ALSO HAVE A SICK POPULATION, WHICH ALLOWS THIS SICKNESS TO FLOURISH) Would you please clarify more what you truly mean by this statement? God bless Quack for being aged 81 years young.

My Mother lived till 86 years young. I believe we cannot compare these 9 words in this time of bad health/long waiting lists/being misdiagnosed by Docs/not being believed when one knows there is something wrong with their body/women here are regarded a lot of the time as being hyprocondriacs (as in it's all in their minds). We know our bodies when something is not quite right. What I put forward now is that women are more inclined to go to their GPs when something is wrong, men are not, and this has been documented time and time again over the years.

I've stated on other sites here that we should have had more Hospitals, more Beds, More Consultants, more nurses etc., as our population grew. The trouble with our great (REPUBLIC OF IRELAND) is when they let immigrants in when we flourished with the "THE CELTIC TIGER" they went over their proposed quota. I am not anti-racial but the present government and the preceeding government didn't ever fore-see this. All they kept doing was allowing planning permission for housing estates, and more housing estates. A 100% mortgage to anyone buying a house but not much more of schools, hospitals. (I would compare it to say in 1940 when couples were married, because they were so religious had a lot of children to look after on the Father's earnings, and to care for them the best they could they had to miss Peter to pay Paul) I BELIEVE OUR GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT RUN OUR COUNTRY IN THE WAY A PERSON/COUPLE/COUPLE WITH CHILDREN RUN THEIR HOME. We even have Brussell's telling us we're over our BUDGET DEFICIT.

Our present government cannot see THE LIGHT OF DAY and I believe they never will. Look what happened yesterday? Brendan Drumm from the H.S.E. announced 750 Million was projected in December in cutbacks for 2009, now he says he wants to cut 1.1 Billion in health care.

The Coombe Hospital, Holles Street, and the Rothunda Hospital cannot cope with all the births, there's not enough midwifes here. I heard it on the Radio yesterday, they are taking them in, and after delivery within the space of 24 hours, 12 hours they are sent home with their Baby being found to be in good health by the Doctors most of the time. Some of them felt they were being put through a CONVEYER BELT.

I wish to point out here I am not an Atheist, I am Christian, young women and women in their 30s are not having too many babys born to them. Nor indeed those who had a big family in the early 1940s The people at present are trying to live within their means. It's our Government that's at fault, not all the population. When I spoke of Immigrants above I meant all those who can come in because they live in an E.U. Country, but we also had an awful lot of asylum seekers. I don't blame them from fleeing their Countrys, but can someone tell me here did the E.U. at the time this was all happening that they equated how many they would let in terms of population census, not each E.U. Country.

I agree with the posting of one stating on this Site they are trying to turn here like the UNITED STATES on Health Insurance Hikes. I would like to point out here that way back in the 1980s my Sister's children had to emigrate one by one over the years to the STATES because there were no jobs here. Her Daughter became an American Citizen and gave up her Irish Citizenship to eventually upon retirement of my Brother-In-Law take full responsibiliaty for them, and they would never become a burden on the UNITED STATES. My Sister and her Husband emigrated to America in 2001 under these conditions.

I believe that those who have very high Salarys should be paying more than the lower paid, and perhaps Companies won't be shuttting down, or down sizing their employees. This recession is much more devastating to all our detriment than the one in the 1980s. (Brian Cowan has said some time ago in the DAIL that everyone has to tighten their belts to try get our economy right)

It's not right for them to have huge salaries, huge bonuses, being paid for Dail Meetings, not mandatory made to attend each meeting, having Junior Ministers, having travelling expenses. The ordinary Joe Soap does not get travelling expenses to work while at this present time he/she has work.

Foot in mouth Embarassed Sealed Money mouth


Peter 47 - 25/02/2009 18:57

Hi Chrissie and all.

My comment previous, re "sick population".

I was refering to the sickness among the MAJORITY of the voting population, the sickening thing being they all suffer from memory loss at election time.

Chrissie, I would hope I NEVER be guilty of being "sexist"  or believing any hype of "womens troubles" being any amount regarded as "hypocondriac".

I was reared in a small country farm, born 1947, I have seven sisterrs, all TG still alive, some are older and some younger than me, (61), they have all had the usual "womens Problems", also my Mother God rest her Soul, Today is her Months Memory, RIP she survived to 92 years of age, and suffered all of those years, from as long as I can remember.

Unfortunatly I have inherited a lot of her ailments, and carry the same sympyoms from a young age.  All my sisters, are inflicted with some of her ailments, along with the normal problems of women with families in Ireland

I also was reared as a Christian, the misteries of religeon are a necessity, as we could never understand  mans inhumanity to man (women)  and I think should be omitted from this forum ???

I would like to say I am non racist, but it is getting more difficult.  I do believe that when Irish abroad were in need if support and jobs they were glad of the help they got. Similarly every family in Ireland had to endure some form of emigration, and hence should condone, economic migration.....

... As I said it is geting dificult to not be racist when we are surrounded by "foreigners" who come here to milk the system, for all they can get. and as you say, take the hospital maternity beds needed by our own women, (and men).

I therefore revert to my usual soap box. Am I writing the speeches for some of our politicians, or are they reading my posts...

Was'nt it great to see CAB, and Revenue officers, raiding the remainder of the most popular loans bank, will the names be anounced anytime soon ???

Will the Big Bonuses have to be repaid, as they were "stolen", not earned in my opinion.

The roof is about to come off the tax shelters, and there are no free umbrellas, for those who are now being pi**ed upon from a great height. We are the shame of Europe, and have lost a lot of our credibility all around the world.

Has this reached its peak ??? can it get any worse ??? (before it gets better)

Live horse and you'll get grass.  Fine words easily spoken. St V de Paul recignise there are now a serious % of the population, below the poverty line.

Someone said the bubble burst,,, no,,, it was some of our "leaders"  let the air out.

My wife of 35 years had a stroke about 7 years ago, and had a fall this morning. she was checked out and safe to go home, there were 11 people on trolleys, so just as well.

I have to  go now and make her something (fish) nice for her Tea.

besat wishes for lent  __________  Peter 47Cry  Undecided  Surprised

Chrissie - 27/02/2009 00:00

Peter 47: You have answered my question in a more explanotory way now, thank you for same.

I have gone over your 4 postings on this Site, = your reply to me. On 19/02/09 21:18 I quote part of it (Will a change of government happen??? probably not, there are enough idiots around to vote the same way as they always did and then complain to the media that the voting must have been rigged) So I can see where you came from.

You have taken all that I wrote totally out of context. In my posting, the 1st paragraph was directed at you only. The rest was my opinion which I put forward to readers and yourself here. I did not say anything untoward being Christian. Also I said I was not an atheist for anyone who came upon this Site to know this because although there are many religions out there now they are christians. As regards being (Hypocondriac) I meant Medics.


This Site was all about H.S.E. Bonuses, then along came the opinions of The dealings of our Government buying Anglo Irish Bank and these Circle of Friends, and rightfully so. That's why I wrote in. Another point I didn't put in (because I thought it was not appropiate to this Site) I learned last Monday that 18,000 people from Ireland have emigrated to Australia, there are little or no jobs left now over there. So there is nowhere to run now like back in the 1980s.

To Peter 47:- There was no need to tell your story here, no more than I can tell mine here. I have Illness, won't go into it, lost relatives. But I do respect any form of Illness no matter how small or how bad that illness is. The Patient Charter Rights is not worth the Paper it is written on. I do have understanding of those who are ill and wish you and yours good tidings. There are also Sites here for your Wife's Illness God Bless her if you wish to refer to them.




Anonymous - 27/02/2009 08:54

Oh Brandy if all it took were the parents of politicians to make them behave in a responsibe manner, wouldn't that be wonderful. The disturbing thing is that most of these politicians are parents themselves - and parents of not children but young adults. Wouldn't you think that in itself would encourage them to be a little responsible

Peter 47 - 27/02/2009 14:45

Hi Everyone

A note to Chrissie, thanks for your comments.

Yes some of our political leaders have acknowleged that the large bonuses, should be paid back, no comment on their own overpayments.

One thing I find different about this forum, compared to some of the reflectors I subscribe to, there is no opportunity, to reply direct to a comment, or contact a poster who you might like to converse with , outside of the forum. I suppose there is the opportunity for anyone to include their e-mail addresses, but I suppose in this instance, most people will wish to remain "Anonymous".

" Off Topic" I see our leaders are losing popularity big time, so I suppose we will waste another couple of million euro on another election, which will result, in similar fat cats with different hair styles coming into power.

I notice no comment on my research into the % of admin staff compared to medical people,in our "sick Service".......  Peter 47

InnocentCool Innocent

CATHY - 28/02/2009 01:08

Thousands attend A/E {cumulative } around the country and most have to pay 100 Euro, where and what do they do with all that money that comes in?????,

Anonymous - 02/03/2009 09:29

"similar fat cats with different hair styles" - Peter I love your turn of phrase and when you think of it that's about the extent of the difference from what I can see.

Peter 47 - 02/03/2009 12:37

Hi again

Yes (anony) I have lots of cheesy comments, hope I didn't hit a sore spot about hair stiles, I still have all mine, the colour God gave me (grey).

Cathy, well 100 times 1000, is just 100,000 euro, so dosent show up in the money count, probabbly if you share it out among all the hospital managers, it would not buy the bickies (chocklicky ones of course).

Seriously though where does that money go, is it spent wisely? does it make a difference to our health service expenditure? I hope it goes out to well deserving HSE Managers, as bonuses, who are so poorly paid, or is there a deserving team working 24 x 7, to improve the loopholes in the Patient Charter?

In reality, there is a good lump of cash involved in these A&E payments, will someone do an enquiry with FOI, or will it be under the Oficial Secrets act ???

That question will probabably never be answered, all the FOI staff are tied up elsewhere... Did you watch or listen to our leader ??? he made a fine speech for someone who is shy, did you notice all the bad news was delivered by his underlings before Brian came on? What money is spent on the group hypnosis we have allocated on this wide scale, even the reporters and news readers, fell under the spell.....When I snap my fingers ,you will wake up... and completly forget everything that happened...

Wouldn't that be great? How do these people get any sleep at all, have they no conscience.... will they never put their hands up... no, they only put their hands OUT........... sorry....... we are doing this for the next generation. Its for the common good. Its not doing the health service any good, there are NEARLY as many administrators as medical staff. If a few dozen doctors and nurses are sacked, there will be more cash available for bonuses. And thats all this discussion is about.

Tighten your belt again. 3 cheers for the leader ... Peter 47

sammi - 02/03/2009 12:58

Hi Peter47

I just came across you by accident actually. See my recent post chronic pain sufferers / bulging disc. My husband was REFUSED admission to a ward for contolled pain relief due to herniated disc. He was basically told to get out. It took him ten minutes to hobble out in great pain, no assistance, no help, no care. Wasn't even offered a wheelchair.

All my life I've been involved with animals and never seen one treated with such lack of care. Except the cruelty cases, but hey, at least there's a law for animals.

EUROPEAN CHARTER FOR PATIENT RIGHTS is not worth the paper it's written on.

It would be helpful if there was a PM service, but I wonder if there is a 'reason' for that.

This is not a 'health service', it's a business and it's all about the lads at the top, managers and consultant's pocketing the money. there is nobody in charge of it, there is noone with control over it, if I'm wrong someone please tell me, who is their overall boss

IRISH PATIENT'S ASSOCIATION is a body that may be able to help people.

If they had to run it as a business in the real world by the people who are now running it they wouldn't last long.

Maybe if it was run like a proper business it would be in a lot better state than it is.

The country is crooked from the top, corruption abounds. and it's bred into these people down the generations from times past. Social political network, an old boy's club .......... hand in hand with the Church. Need more be said?

As the recent news over the banking scandal shows there is no punishment for corruption, it abounds under cover, in secret. But at last it's all coming out now.

Strange too how all of a sudden foreign investors are looking to buy Anglo, I wonder what else they are trying to suppress from coming out in the wash, running scared someone is I think.

Peter 47 - 02/03/2009 14:18

I'v just been reading the first few posts and further down, boy, am I way off topic ......early post says, Professor Brendan Drum, his bonus is a mere €80,000. this translates to a mere €220, per DAY. (7 day week )

Thats as much as I get for a week on Invalidity Pension ... How equal is that. So I don't have his qualifications for HSE Management, well Neither has HE. He is an eminent Surgeon, rapidly losing his skills, in a job he has absaloutely no qualifications for.... So how does he qualify for a bonus? bonuses are a way of reqarding ( tax free ) people who have made extraordinary decisions, or changes in work practice, or just good at their jobs.

I think Professor Brendan Drum, does not fall into any of these catogories. But well, it's a dirty job, and someone's got to do it.

I mean, someone has to make sure that the eminent Professors, Surgeons, and Specialists in the HSE, have a decent wage, make sure that they work the full 40 hours for the HSE, and only do PRIVATE work, on their PRIVATE patients, above and beyond their normal days work, this means they must work loads of extra hours and weekends.

Now, if that extra income is paid direct to the specialists for working PRIVATE, on top of their salary, who pays for the PUBLIC beds which are occupied?? Who pays for the hire of theater, equipment, anethisetists, theater nurses, oxygen ect..... Why we do stupid, the private patients sometimes have GMS cards, or are their TD's slipping up.

Who allows this double jobbing, and double pay outs, why the people in executive positions, stupid, thats how the system works so smoothly. so of course they have earned their bonuses, well and truly.

Another mammoth task, being administered (I didn't say done) by HSE staff is the scheme for taking patients off the waiting lists and allowing them the dignity of going to a private hospital for their long awaited procedure. Isint that well worth paying bonus for. If you find yourself in this position, why all you have to do is send a report from the specialist who you have been waiting months to see, to tender your medical report, and a private hospital will be allocated. Thats fine, now all you have to do is wait to see the specialist for another 12 months or so, and bingo, off you go the the private hospital, if the undertaker didnt get there first.

So why are ye all cribbing, is it jealousy ?? is it dog in the manger ?? (or is that the hospital food ?? why can ye not leave well enough alone. Tighten your belts another notch, what a stupid suggestion to even think of repaying the bonuses which are well deserved. dont forget that was 2007 fiscal year. How would you like to be paid 2 years in arears ?????

Peter 47 Innocent Laughing

sammi - 02/03/2009 17:40

News paper article oct 30 2008

€ 1.4 MILLION in bonuses paid to 100 HSE exectutives, on top salaries, ranging from € 250,000 - € 380,000 per year, and to the fees and bonuses given to PR consultants.

Fine Gael West TD Padraic McCormack calls for resignation of Mary Harney.

€ 1,367 a day was paid to a close associate of Prof Brendan Drumm, the chief executive HSE.

Others received € 724 a day for work outside their contract.

Now these senior health personnel are to pay themselves unearned bonuses.

€380,000 per year plus bonus of € 80,000 will bring his pay up to €1,700 for every working day, or €8,500 per week.

Peter 47 - 03/03/2009 18:56

Have replied to "sammi" message # 34

Must have been moderated

More later

Going for my tea now


docg - 05/03/2009 20:11

Well, we've elected the same people to rule over us (we may have believed they would govern! ) not once, not twice, etc.  So we cannot say we were not warned. 

If we swallow the bait next time, - and there will be carrots! - make no mistake, nothing will change. We are experiencing a recent version of the Divine Right of Kings, for that is how the ruling coalition is behaving.

Power, as always, is corrupting.  Though, I have to say that the accelerated rate of corruption has surprised even my cynical self.

polly - 06/03/2009 01:57

Why is everybody so surprised at these people getting massive bonuses?

This has been going on for years!

County managers, hospital managers, politicians, top brass in the Gardai.

civil service officials and anybody else in the know have been getting

these perks since time began!  Same families, new generation, the corruption

is handed down like the family silver!

sammi - 06/03/2009 20:19

hi all,

good to see a few more voices coming on board about the shocking state of affairs.

personally i'd like to see a good clear out of the top decks, across the board. this government should be thrown out and a new one put in place as voted for by the people.

before i never really paid too much heed to what was going on, but lately i've been watching the papers everday and do you know, there isn't a day that goes by without something new coming out.

i see Mary harney is reviewing salaries for consulatants, orthopeadics are not on the list though.

there needs to be big changes, but how can that happen when the people don't have a voice. total corruption in place here, total power.

this is something i've wondered.

what ever happened to council houses? doesn't the government supply them anymore.

the country is full of rental houses and the builders developers are raking it in, as paid by the government. we've had to bail out the banks, the builders are not paying tax now, the developers owe mountains of cash.

why doesn't the government take ownership of these houses, for the debts, and have the money going back into the coffers instead of out? or provide council houses.

HSE is spending a fortune on imported pork. takes three offices to handle the buying in of meat for one region. that was in papers today.

hammer - 09/03/2009 11:26

Council houses.

Can this Govt realistically continue to provide housing for people after the way they have mismanaged the exchequer?

Lets be honest. The deficit will be over 20,000,000,000 this year. To fiance this at 4% alone is 800 million.

This alone would pay the wages of 17,778 public servants !!

If we take this 4.5 billion out of the economy we will actually reduce vat, excise & income tax as dole ques surge towards 500,000 - this means that the 500,000 have practically NO disposable income. We need knowledgeable people in the Dept of Finance. These clowns believed that if they put up CGT they would collect extra CGT in 2009. Dumb ?

How many years of growth does this Govt think it will take for all these unemployed to find work? Our growth rates will be NEGATIVE until 2011 at least.

500,000 people at €25,000 per annum - lost taxes and dole payments, medical cards but EXCLUDING rent allowances and mortgage assistance will cost the exchequer 12.5 BILLION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!Frown

buzz - 09/03/2009 13:21

It still baffles me how people can qualify for a system which basically allows them to live for free. Surely if we have a system where people can claim rent allowance ect then there is no need for free housing? If I am wrong, or missing something, corrections welcome. Regards

hammer - 09/03/2009 15:47

Bar the elite ( politicians / developers / hospital consultants / HSE consultants / top bankers / directors of plc`s )

we`ll all be living for free SOON.

If there are no small private companies (which is the way we are going) there will be no public service and no social welfare, education or health service.

Profit is now a dirty word. No Profit No employment. Therefore no tax !!

We can do all the shopping we want in Northern Ireland but our dole money would hardly pay the petrol when our YELLOW PARTY introduce the carbon taxes ( bear in mind they already added 8 cent to the price of a litre in the last budget which everyone seems to have forgotten ).

Normal price today 104.9 - the Govt get over 60% of this figure 60% 60% 60% 60% and they speak of carbon taxes - don`t figure !!!!!!!!

We are blinded by these lu la`s. We need to wake up NOW.Embarassed

Peter 47 - 09/03/2009 17:12

Hello All

Back after a few days on a foreign soil...

What have ye done while I was away ?? The green party has copied the constitution of the PD's,,, they had their AGM, in a phone box , on Leeson Street. The only bit I actually heard was the guy who promised that ALL the white collar crime will be punished,,, "they will not get away with it"....

So, one of these days, we will surely have the programme started for building half a dozen new Prisons, and the apointment of a dozen or so new High Court Judges >>>

I was surprised that there was no mention of grants for grow your own herbal cannabis, or is that going to be listed on the medical Card.

Great to see several delegates with their sleeves rolled up, others with their jackets on the back of the chair,,, does this mean they were hard at work, or was the heating turned up too high... was the heating from a pellet boiler,,, They are harder to regulate,,, I wonder who pays the bill for all these Ard Feis'sss ??.....we probabbly do same as allways..

Heard on the radio last Friday,,, deisel in Dublin City is less than €1.00....... How do the city people stand for that,,, Diesel is €0.94 , can they not do what they were told by the polititians,,,,, shop around... I'm sure they all do that... we had the statistics on the state purchace of "cars",,, did they shop around ???... it would seem not... but after all its who you know..... I am delighted that the Garda have some new veichles... wasint it a shame on the country that a young Garda was killed in a squad car which was 13 years old... If there is any pay cuts iFrownn public service, the garda and Ambulance Service would NOT be included.

Anything new on the bonus saga ??? or is this now becoming a part of the official secrets act ??? we will have to wait 30 years to find out,,, or will the books be up to date by then... I think its time for a big computer crash, or a fire, in the department of finance... no one seems to know how much we really owe, its true, no one is working in that department,,,, or most of the others, either,,,,,, but the department heads will still collect their well earned "bonuses"

What is the rule in "Europe", about a member State going bankrupt ???

Is there a financial penalty for being broke,,, or will they take a dodgy check from one of our comunally owned high street banks ???

Lots of questions, I'll catch up with the national scandal over a week or so, meanwhile, I will inform myself with the global situation by watching the Cartoon Channel,,,, I need something to cheer me up, and it's certainmly not the FT index...

cheers ye all.... Peter 47 Frown (:i )=[

sammi - 09/03/2009 17:44

I didn't mean free housing.

I mean low rent for starter families, people who are working. At least they pay tax, then that goes back into the governments pocket, not the private landlords. I believe the average rent for a house is € 150 - €160 a week.

I don't think anybody should be entitled to get anything if they have never worked. There are plenty of opportunities out there. If kids are too lazy to go to school, do their study, go on a training course or get an apprenticeship, hell even joining the army is a puts a roof over your head and food in your belly.

If you can't afford a house, don't have babies. I know it's a social issue too as kids who grow up poor in towns just don't have the guidance.

But if there were no hand outs you'd have to find a way. We had to leave in the 80's as there was no work.

Just look what's happening in England. Welfare is crippling the country and the lower paid workers are crippled with taxes to pay for it.

The state needs to get tough, there's too much dogooder softies and human rights out there but no balance.

And there's too many scammers out there abusing the system.

buzz - 11/03/2009 10:25

Agreed. Those who are "lower tier" (I hate such hierarchy) workers, are now only coming out with slightly more than those on welfare. I am not a public service worker, but i have to say, with the pension levy, if someone was coming out with say 420 after tax (as a public worker) and now with the levy, plus we have the pending "mini budget" where we will most likely be on a higher tax rate and have lower tax credits, this person will come out with maybe even less than someome who gets a free house, dole, rent allowance etc just because they got pregnant? Look at all the couples who cripple themselves paying lofty mortgages and childcare fees so that they can both work..

Anonymous - 11/03/2009 11:38

If someone was coming out with 420 after tax and levies (remember many private sector workers are already payin into their pensions and have been all along) then they're on twice thew social welfare level. While an increase in the tax rate is likely I really can't see them lowering the threshold. It is already below the average industrial wage. As for those who get a "free" house and social welfare - what would you have them do? Rear their child on the street? Yes, most couples need two incomes to pay a mortgage and thus need childcare but that is not is not to say we shouldn't look after those who need help, surely. And in that way we ouselves can get help should we ever need it. Kind Regards - Maura.

buzz - 11/03/2009 12:29

well they may be coming out with "twice as much" but that is not taking into account that they do not get the mirade of other freebies such as medical cards, rent allowance etc so taking THESE into account, the DISPOSABLE income COULD very well be less. Of course nobody wants to see children being reared on the street, but this country practically rewards single mothers, and persecutes those who wish to pay their OWN way.

buzz - 11/03/2009 12:31

Also, there IS talk of lowering tax credits to "pull in" more lower paid workers to pay tax. I am sure this will be demonstrated soon.

Anonymous - 11/03/2009 16:15

If those on medical cards had a choice between paying their own way and what is, from what I can see, the third tier of a three tier system do you really think they would opt forthe medical card system by choice. Those with mortgages get mortgage interest relief so rent allowance doesn't really apply.Also those with mortagages will one day own a property so a mortgage has its own reward. Renters are not in thre same position. I would hardly consider the pittance that is the lone parents allowance a reward - regardless of whether the lone parent is the mother or father. Maura

sammi - 11/03/2009 18:48

I understand what your saying Maura.

The welfare system is there to protect the vunerable and it's a life saver for those who have the misfortune of ever having to need it.

If a woman is left on her own by her husband with children she is entitled to it.

I've just had to give up my job to care for my husband, who can't work at the moment. Now I have to enter it, and thank god too, but it's not nice. I haven't a clue about it all. We're not skilled workers, our own faults for not realising how important college was to us when we were young. We did it all the ' right way ' got married, had a mortgage and struggled along. That was how we were brought up. 

Other People we knew lived together while the mother claimed single parent's and the fella was bringing in a wage. They had free housing, medical care, the works and were out every weekend on the razz, great life.

My father left Ireland at 16 with the clothes on his back and a carrier bag. I'm the youngest of 7 and we never went hungry and were minded. Growing up I saw my father have to work away from home and his family, my brothers, my father in law and my husband, to provide for their families, it's been a way of life for Irish men for generations. But work they did.

In england there is no medical card system, health care is for all. As it should be for workers who pay taxes. If you earn more than € 250 a week here you don't get a card.

How many of us saw our mortgages go up to that much a week ? we did and we are lucky, we bought a site and built our house and our mortgage is probably half that of most workers. I gave 3 years in a mobil home with 3 kids so we could afford to have our house. the same as did my sister many years ago, and many other women. That was the way.

You used to be able to rent a council house for an affordable price and after a few years, buy it if you could, that was a good system, it gave lower paid workers a chance.

But a girl who leaves school and has never worked can get pregnant and get free housing € 160 wk, welfare probably € 200 wk (more if you have more kids) family allowance every month. Free health care, free dental care. also other allowances, fuel, back to school etc. So there's a basic's week wage for a man, what many families are surviving on - only they are working and paying tax. Then do they work for the next 15 yrs while they are raising kids ? It often creates a vicious social cycle, look at limerick and other inner cities.

Most families can't afford to pay into pensions and pay into private health care ecover, because on top of all the other bills, and running a car, the money just isn't there.

The point I'm making is that the system is stacked against the workers.

Workers have to manage as they are working to a better life, and for their kids.

You may own your house at the end of 30 yrs, but you have grafted hard for it along the way. and you can easily lose it if anything goes wrong and you can't keep up repayments, as many are finding out now, unfortunatley.

You may not be well off on the dole in a free rental house on benefits but I tell ya, there aren't that many of us workers with our endless list of bills that are much better off.

Professor Brendan Drumm is getting € 400,000 a YEAR. He won't be worrying about his medical card. Or anything else.

Peter 47 - 11/03/2009 21:46

I see speculation on the tax regime for the next emergency budget,,,,Speculation is fine, but will it be a case of rob the poor to pay the rich, once again ? orr will the long threatened tax the family allowance, or whatever name it goes by now, be one of the first hit.

I would be delighted to see a tax on Family allowance, IF, it were applied fairly, eg, only to those whose income allowed and deserved to be taxed.

What is the betting there will be a cut in the Back to school clothing and foorware allowance,,, that comes under the HSE. Sack another few dozen special needs teachers, that is another wastage that the HSE oversees on behalf of the Department of Education. The education of the children of the nation is much more important than, giving millions in grants to universities for research into providing cronies with the opportunity to become millionaires, under the guise of promoting new Industry.

Peter 47

buzz - 12/03/2009 09:38

I am sure many if them do have the choice to walk away, but they refuse because life is made too easy for them. Mortage relief is not a huge sum of money, and certainly nowhere near as much as rent allowance. There was a time when paying money into a mortgage may have been seen as a wise investment, this is not so anymore, with more and more people finding themselves in negative equity and simply walking away from the thousands that they have paid off their home. I WOULD consider it a reward, considering that they do not actually have to do anything to earn it.

Anonymous - 12/03/2009 13:07

Buzz, being at the very bottom of a two or 3 tier health system is hardly life being made too easy for a person. No, I know mortgage relief is not a huge sum but a the end of it all own our homes. Renters don't. We never bought at over-inflated prices. Perhaps we were wise or lucky. Given that a roof over your head, is, like food a basic human right then it is no more reward than feeding someone who is hungry. Rights are not priviledges so in that sense they do not have to be earned or won, that is why they are called rights, instead of prozes or favours. Maura

buzz - 12/03/2009 15:41

Are you now trying to lump in those who work and pay high rent with those who do not work and get council houses? The two are completely different. It would appear that welfare is only a right for specific groups. For example those who never actually worked in the first place. What about those who worked for themselves and chose NOT to be a burden on the state, and then fell ill and lost their business and everything they had (including the roof over their head) THEY are not entitled to handouts! No it would appear that it is only those freeloaders who procreate incessantly and know how to peddle the system who benefit.

Anonymous - 13/03/2009 09:03

Maybe we come from different generations Sammi - I'm in my forties and to me if a woman is left on her own with children to care for, regardless of her marital status then we as a society have a duty to help and that is part of what the welfare systme is for. Similar if you have to care for a partner or ill child or ailing parent. I thought we did it all "the right way" too except that we are now ralising that there is no "right way". it is different for different people. we went to university, decided to forego post-grad travel for saving and getting our own place on a mortgage. Then saved to get married and had our children. Others travel then get a place of their own, then have childre, then marry. Others don't have children at all. There is no "right way" I've come to the conclusion. My fahter was lucky in that he never had to emigrate unlike the fathers of his peers. I agree, there is a lot wrong with the NHS but at least it is there for all.

The council housing system is the same for all who find themselves in poor circumstnwces regardless of whether they have worked or not since school or college. If a woman with a baby or family unit has no home or means of spport they enter a waiitng list and housing is decided based on need and priority. The housing is not freee, it is on a rental basis with a reduced rent. Like the council housing sytme of years ago. We never neded it ourselves - we are very lucky in that regard.

Anonymous - 13/03/2009 09:05

The lone parnets allowance is similar to the job seekers allowance. On that level of income for anyone, a medical card is provided - be it sociual welfare, lone parents or non-contributary pension. Free dental care?? Now you are making me laugh? Have you any concept of what the waiting list is like? No parnet would leave their child to wait that long for a basic health care right unles they were destitute and had no choice. Fuel and back to school allowance is for anyone on low incpome or gettign a family income supplement. Most families to survive need more than basic adult weekly wage. I see what you mean about it creating a vicious social cycle - which is what intervention is so so important along with childcare measire to get both parnets back to work and self-supporting.

Yes people can lose their house if they miss repayments and cannot negotiate wiht the banks but thankfully this is rare due to Irish legal contraints compared to the UK. However many banks and maybe borrowers were very irresponsible in the last 10 years with regard to their lending practises.


I am on the average industual wage. My husband is on slightly less but it is better than social welfare any day and yes, we have experienced both in our time.


Oh Brendan Drumm won't be worrying about his medical card. Or anything else. That is a fact.


Anonymous - 13/03/2009 09:09

No Buzz "those who do not work and get council houses" is a convenient misnomer. Those who need it, get a rent allowance be it people on very low income or on social welfare. Welfare is a right for anyone who needs it. "What about those who worked for themselves and chose NOT to be a burden on the state". What you're tryign to say now is that everyone in the PAYE system in both the private and public sector is a burden on the state?? What nonsense.You think everyone bar the self employer are " freeloaders who procreate incessantly and know how to peddle the system who benefit". What a disgusting attitude. It seems you have real chip on your shoulder there Buzz.

buzz - 13/03/2009 10:54

"Welfare is a right for anyone who needs it" - I have already shown you how this is false. I know people who need it and get NOTHING.

buzz - 13/03/2009 10:55

"What you're tryign to say now is that everyone in the PAYE system in both the private and public sector is a burden on the state??" - when EXACTLY did I say that? If someone is WORKING then they are hardly a burden now are they? Those are YOUR words NOT mine

buzz - 13/03/2009 10:56

"a disgusting attitude" is the ridiculous approach that we have to fereeloaders in this country and I never said that the public sector workers were spongers.

buzz - 13/03/2009 10:59

"You think everyone bar the self employer are " freeloaders who procreate incessantly and know how to peddle the system who benefit" - what utter rubbish, please READ my posts before you respond again thank you.

Anonymous - 13/03/2009 14:07

You said Buzz "What about those who worked for themselves and chose NOT to be a burden on the state". If this is not what you meant then maybe some clarification is needed or you need  to READ youtr OWN posts before you submit them.

buzz - 13/03/2009 15:52

oooh tetchy..... If you READ my post properly you will see that the context that that statement was made in VERY CLEARLY refers to those who do NOT work. The reference made to one who is self employed is there to illustrate those of us who do NOT have any entitlements to social welfare. It was NOT a dig at public sector workers.

sammi - 14/03/2009 08:36

Seems I missed a lot while I was away. Finally after many years of complete agony my husband has had his back surgery. Please God his troubles will be over.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

I can remember what Clint Eastwood said about that one.

The trouble with people posting under the 'anonymous' is ya can't tell who's who with the posts.

-" Given that a roof over your head, is, like food a basic human right then it is no more reward than feeding someone who is hungry. " -

A basic HUMAN RIGHT - i see, the right to leave school, doss around and do nothing all day and hey, for lying in bed and doing absolutely zip, someone is going to come along and feed you. And hey guess what, not only do you get fed, FOR FREE for doing nowt, You also get a roof over your head. FOR FREE. Not to mention free health and dental.

But it's not for FREE though is it. someone somewhere is PAYING for it, who? Oh let me see, i guess it's the sector who ACTUALLY have to work to earn money. As a result of having to support this social system the worker suffers. HIGHER taxes. They PAY taxes into a system that rewards people for sitting at home for in some cases 20 - 40 years, that's right cos some of these people in that social class NEVER WORK a day in their life.

- " to me if a woman is left on her own with children to care for, regardless of her marital status then we as a society have a duty to help and that is part of what the welfare systme is for. "-

READ the script - nobody mentioned a woman deserted. Genuine cases. We are talking about young girls who never worked a day in their life having not one baby, but many.

-"The lone parnets allowance is similar to the job seekers allowance"- How can that be. You only get jobseekers if your ACTUALLY LOOKING for and WILLING to WORK. Get a job, get training, to get off welfare.

"-there is no "right way". it is different for different people"- Are you deliberately trying to take what i said out of context - that's why it was in comma's - dugh !

-"I agree, there is a lot wrong with the NHS but at least it is there for all."- Have you read the recent reports, the pot is being drained at such an alarming rate it's probably going to be empty by the end of the year.

By the way, it wasn't there for my husband - if anyone has read my other post's - chronic pain, back surgery - he was REFUSED treatment by a consultant. REcently he was REFUSED admission to a ward for pain relief after being referred to hospital by his GP. There was no sitting at home on disability in a FREE HOUSE, he did his best to carry on working over the years when he could.

-"The council housing system is the same for all who find themselves in poor circumstnwces regardless of whether they have worked or not since school or college"-

There is NO council house SYSTEM - they are private owned houses by LANDLORDS who are raking in the money. The money isn't even going back into the government coffers, it's going OUT.

That is the point we are talking about. MONEY GOING OUT, it can only keep going out for so long, when there is nothing coming in, what's going to balance the books.

WE are not talking about all the GENUINE cases out there that fall on hard times and need assistance. We are talking about those WHO abuse the system, continuously year in year out, draining money and not contributing.

IRELAND simply cannot afford it. If you do some research and follow the papers you will see the figures. It's not hard.

Chrissie - 15/03/2009 23:49

I dug deep into the Oireachtas Archives to try make head or tail of what our so called democratic Ireland is all about. I read The Taoiseach is Head of Ireland's Government. He is answerable for Government Policy as he is the State's Chief Policy Maker. Each Taoiseach that was sworn in from inception of this, had their names signed and underwriten by each serving President of Ireland.

Would anyone here believe as I do, As being Head of Ireland that this english word answerable is equated to accountable? I would also like to point out that Brian Cowan will not listen to any suggestions put forward by any other political party ideas. News I learned last week while watching Dail Live on the net he told opposition that asked him questions about this Budget that they will receive all about 3-4 days before the Budget Day in April. I don't quote him word for word, if persons here heard it too? if I left out words please let me know. I remember he also said either (1) On Tuesday 7th April we'll discuss it or (2) Tuesday 7th april is Budget Day.

buzz - 16/03/2009 11:03

Sammi I hope your husband will make a good recovery. My Father had a similar situation, had a bad knee from an old injury which was made worse from his job that involved him doing very heavy manual work for many years. He is entitled to NOTHING. When he was out of work during and after his op, he basically supported the family by raking up credit card bills! We dont want a free for all, some of us actually want to work (I enjoy my job and would not give it up) but the double standards we have in this country are RIDICULOUS. Why should some people live for free just because they do nothing to further themselves? Some of them actually view babies as another form of income. My parents and those of many others had to PAY for their childrens upbringing, and many sacrificed having bigger families because they simply could not afford to have more children. For these "claim culture" people doing a days work (unless it is a dodgy cash in hand event) is not something that ever features in their minds. We have too many "Holy Marys" as my Nan would call them, in this country who are so frantically pc that they are practically communist in their views. I wonder how these people will feel when they find themselves paying much higher tax and PRSI in order to feed and house the wastes of space that are infecting this country. The fact remains that there simply IS no money to go around as many bums as there WAS and to keep up with welfare demand the money is going to have to come from somewhere. Perhaps they will change their minds when the schools are falling down around their children and they can no longer drive their kids to school because of the state of the roads. Or how about not stepping out in the dark because we can no longer afford street lights? I reckon we make the do-gooders put their money where their mouths are and make them pay more to keep these scumbags in Nike gear and Mamas and Papas buggies, because it is certainly not something that interests me, especially when i see my family working hard and having NO social security should things go wrong.

Anonymous - 16/03/2009 12:27

Of course self-employed workers should be entitled to social welfare just like private secotr and public sector workers. Is there not insurance that can be taken out for this? Entire generations views children as income streams - for the farm or factory. Thankfully, we are educating ourselves out of that now. Frankly I see nothing wrong with being communist in viewpoint, It might well mean a more egalitarian society. Yes, you and I pay for our childrens upbringing and have the health, education, ability and opportunity to work. For those who don't, we have social welfare. We do not let people, for the most part, die on the streets. I do not view human beings as "wastes of space that are infecting this country" or "scumbags". That to me is an apalling viewpoint. Hi Sammi, sorry to hear your husband is ill. Hope all goes well with his recovery. I think the Eastwood quote went something like 'opinions are like ***holes - everybody's got one.

The lone parnets allowance is similar to the job seekers allowance - in amount, is what I meant. What would you have us, as a society do. Continue to leave people on a housing list, not house them and have them live their lives and bring up their children in hostels and run-down B&B's becuase that is the other option. There is a council housing system. Your local county council will confirm this.

buzz - 16/03/2009 14:03

God I am so sorry Chrissie (and Sammi). I was half asleep this morning posting that. Chrissie regards to your husband for a speedy recovery!

buzz - 16/03/2009 15:22

Well thank God You are not in power thats all I can say. Communism? If we WERE communist, do you really thnk that people would still want to work as hard, knowing that ALL their EARNINGS were going to subsidise bums (yes that is all they are - being human does not give one a carte blanche to be a layabout) and more to the point, do you think these people on the dole would actually get up and work? I DOUBT it, they wouldnt know what work was if it jumped up and hit them in the face. So your communism would fail miserably.

buzz - 16/03/2009 15:25

Incidentally I find your reference to people sleeping on the street quite ironic. THe beauracracy faced by the homeless is ridiculous in this country, you cannot get welfare or rent allowance without an address, you cant get an address without help etc etc its a total catch 22 for these people yet we STILL have homeless on our streets you have to be blind to miss them! This country rewards those who KNOW how to play the system, dont bunch those people in with homeless men women and children who GENUINELY need help and those are the ones who do not get help.

sammi - 16/03/2009 19:53

hi buzz.

I'm laughing away at your post. was it early hours of morning. don't be sorry, can't figure why your apologising.

- God I am so sorry Chrissie (and Sammi). I was half asleep this morning posting that. Chrissie regards to your husband for a speedy recovery! -

Hubby's op went well. my God what a difference. before he could hardly stand. he is sore from the op but at least he can get up and walk, the BAD pain is gone.

See the thing is this post has taken a turn. cos that's what conversation does, people express views and then talk about them, which is great. I'd say i'm doing 3 or 4 different one's at the moment.


Everybody is of the same line of thought. The country is sliding headlong in to a black hole. the country needs new leaders.

the politicians at the top obviously are at fault and need to be cleared out, and all of their cronies.

we all know what a ladder looks like. that is exactly the way the political social structure is.

there's a well known saying 10% of the people have 90% of the money. it's true.

But i've said the same thing, everybody needs to work together and fight and get rid of the government and the hse and a lot of their other convaluting money wasting eejit ***t for brains (so it seems) fool friends.

and i tell ya for all their education they are the biggest fool bunch of thick morons that it seems ever walked. they have destroyed the country yes destroyed it and they are getting away with it.

the irish people fled to the four corners because they had to. but the MAJORITY of them worked, slaved virtually to earn it. i've seen it.

Now i'm not racist, extremist, sexist or anything anti that would cause harm to anyone. but the facts are there is an element of society that will not work. the term is freeloaders.

Not unfortunate or hard done by. WILL NOT WORK.


yes anonymous there are council houses, i do apologise, what i meant was that there are few council houses, mostly they are owned by private landlords and the government is spending out the money and it's not coming back in.

Self employed workers are hung out to dry. maybe it's better to set up a limited company so at least your working for 'someone' and getting the protection of the system.


It's simple economics, the money isn't by magic brought down from the sky. The everyday worker is struggling to pay his taxes,mortgage, bin charges, car insurance so he can get to work, car tax, petrol, maintenance,electric bills, heating bills, weekly shopping, school uniforms, school bus travel, books,overheads and feed and clothe his family. that's without counting treats and niceties like furnishing the house and buying nice clothes, or going out for a night.

Is it any wonder some people get a bit cranky, when they see it all going on and know they just gotta take it cos there aint nothing ya can do to change it.

Peter 47 - 16/03/2009 21:37

Its wonderful to hear comments about Communism, so poorly understood !!!

Communism, as it was invisaged was to give the masses the best system available, [every village represented, every county, every region, all governed by members of the public who were trusted local negotiators] after the regime which had dealt the common folk a vrry raw deal under the Tsar, Royal Family had taxed the people of the Greater Russias, almost out of existence.

It fell down poorly, when the New people in power (elected majority ) used their new found power to abuse the system even worse than what the tsars did. they even went so far as to build private roads for the "top government officials", the common people could use cart tracks as they had always done.

The Communisim lasted as long as the masses believed blindly in it, eventualy someone saw the light, and spread the good news that there was an option.......... how many disapeared for their attempt to publicise the wrong doing. or if they were lucky... sent to work in the salt mines in Siberia....

All very well for the comune ideal, where everyone supports every one else... all through the country.

Here in Ireland, we too were persecuted, by the rulers, we also had a revolution, we too set up a govermnment, from the parish pump, to county level, and at national level... we even have a second layer of government to keep am eye on the others [ Dail and Senate]

People faught and died for this, not just against the Foreign power in high office but also a civil war among the common people. The result of this bit of recent history is the Republic of Ireland.

Unfortunatly the systyem in USSR was betrayed by "get rich quick" officials, and turned to anarchy. We on the other hand, have not recognised the anarchy in our society, and reward the people in power, and their friends with turning a blind eye to the "good time Charlies" who are robbing us blind, and leaving the Country in a state of poverty.

So our policy was give everyone a taste of the crumbs from the communal cake...give them SSIA's,,, give them the highest minimum wage in Europe,,,spend, spend spend,,,its not real money,, its only paper... euros,,, they have no real value... you can never buy a house that you can afford... keep the voters happy,,, keep the tax treshold low for the people on slave wages,, Keep the fat cats happy,,, give them huge awful bonuses, even if they say it is too much,,,,,,

That is the reason why we are as we are... have you played your part to your best ability,,, are you ashamed to call yourself Irish, when the whole world knows we let ourselves be robbed blind

ENOUGH Peter 47. Happy St Patricks day to ye all.

sceptical - 17/03/2009 01:21

Cripes! Looks like the people really responsible for the mess we're in have escaped AGAIN. Scapegoating, what is referred to here as, the 'social' class or 'bums', is EXACTLY what this inadequate and arrogant government, their overpaid TDs, managers, consultants, bankers and tax-free billionaires HOPED would happen.

What is it about the Irish people that they are so slow to confront, REALLY CONFRONT, those they see as authority? Has it something to do with all those years of total obedience to the Church? Why are people not concentrating on the fact that FF haven't got clue how to organise proper government. Not only that, they are sailing along as though all the waste of resources and mismanagement of public services had nothing to do with them.

The term Health Service is a misnomer. It is not a 'service'. This government don't know the meaning of the word 'service'. They are elected to serve but what they do is RULE. Just listen to the arrogance FF and Green TDs are still exuding. Mary Harney? Shameless. Handing out money in bucketfuls to the consultants while asking the people to 'take the pain'.

It is a shocking indictment of a government who WILL NOT take responsibility. They will not change the structures which brought the country down.

I have no truck with young women getting pregnant in order to get a house and welfare. But they are a small minority of the population. That said, WHY and HOW was it allowed to happen? Why, in the years of plenty, were there no properly funded and compulsory training programmes for those applying for welfare. Too many civil servants and quango chiefs whose responsibility that was supposed to be, were tripping off (1st class) on junkets. Instead of DOING a job for which they were paid several hundred thousand, they spent their time 'looking' at how other countries did the work. Plenty of 'looking', plenty of committees, plenty of foreign advisors, NO results.

An accountable, intelligent government would have planned ahead; would now have Reserve funds to fall back on. Norway, Sweden, Denmark? Those countries banked reserves in the good times. But in Ireland it's all about a 'wing and a prayer'. They are puffed-up inadequates, incapable and unaccountable.

We need to wake up to the REAL wasters and 'bums'.

Anonymous - 17/03/2009 08:49

So Buzz, you think that communism means that ALL people's earning go to "subsidize bums". I think you have a lot to learn. With 350,000 people unemployed, I'd love to know where you think the extra jobs are going to come from. I'm sure everyone would be very interested in that. I agree entirely in relation to homeless people needing help but in following your pholosophy, there would be a heck of a lot more of them.

buzz - 18/03/2009 10:26

"With 350,000 people unemployed, I'd love to know where you think the extra jobs are going to come from." - oh right, so now these people are unemployed because of a lack of jobs? Tell me, what was their excuse during the tiger years? And no I am NOT talking about those recently unemployed.

buzz - 18/03/2009 10:39

You think with my philosophy there'd be a "heck of a lot more" of homeless? Quite the opposite actually, if we made those who peddle the system get off their arses and actually WORK then there would be more money in the pot for those who GENUINELY need it.

Anonymous - 18/03/2009 11:46

A very interesting post Peter and sceptical. It's true, it may well suit the governmnt when we are turening the blame on different scapegoats in society - immigrant, jobless, lone parents etc and refer to then as "bums". As for the inertia. I have no explanation for that. Pevious generations were willing to rise of for what they needed despite the power of any one institution. Why, in the years of plenty, were there no properly funded and compulsory training programmes for those applying for welfare.- This is exactly the question we need to be asking instead of scapegoating. Buzz, givne that there are hundreds every day losing thier jobs, then I think unemployment due to lack of ob is MORE than obvious , don't you. Those who were unemployed duting the tiger years form a tiny percentage of those now unemployed and much of it was lack of skills and lack of opportunity. So you make a lone parent work for minimum wage - who is going to look after her child, you? Of course not and there is no state support for childcare whatsoever, none. Regardless of whether one is a lone parent or two parent family.

Peter 47 - 18/03/2009 15:34

It's nice to see that someone else is aware of the quotation.... 10% of the population own 90% of the wealth.

The second part of that quotation (not fairytail) is :-

If all the wealth in the world was gathered up,,, and then divided equally to each and every individual,,, the situation would revert to where it was in 6 months.

ie. The 10% would have gathered back all the wealth, by one means or another..

Are we believed the Celtic Tigre is in a coma, or dead,,, well its our fault, we were led to believe that the good times were here, to last forever. The welfare state system was never meant to subsiidise layabouts. No it was subscribed by one section of the population,,, The PAYE worker. Recently, a few years ago, workers were told they had a part to play in growing the wealth of the country,,, by making a contract with the employers, and Government, to allow a fair wage system.

This also included, things like making allowance for people with severe disabilities, to live in relative comfort and decency, with a regular quality of life.

Well the workers held to the contract for the most part. The disabled groups were allowed to wait 8 years for the Disability bill to be constructed, and then rejected, as it bore no resemblance to what was promised !! There was then another few years wasted, and finally disabled people organised themselves into a group to enter discussion directly with government.

This discussion was on an all party basis, with union reps, department heads and education buffs, all involved. After another few tries, and rejections,, the "Disability Act", was published and "passed" into law.... No the Act has not made things any better,,, just the odd prosecution under the "discrimination Act", against buisness , mostly for not allowing Guide dogs on the premises, or such.

There have been no prossecutions, for the hundreds of Hotels and licenced premises, for not providing accessable rooms, dining areas, coffee bars, or toilets, ect. Two days after the "Bill" was published,,,, CIE was on the news, boasting about the dozens of new busses that had been supplied for service, around the country,,,, Yes you have guessed it,,, not one of these new fangled busses, was built for disabled accessable use. [ CIE were represented on the talks].

That bit of news was squashed by the time the evening news came out,,,, the coachbuilder (from outside Ireland), was asked about the order, and was quoted as saying,,,, What are we supposed to do with a load of busses which were ordered below normal specification,,, no one else wants them,,, we will have to strip them down and rebuild them for normal use,,,, ie., accessable.

There was a promise of €9,000,000]to be spent on upgrading the health " system", to include making everything good for the disabled community,,,, well where did it go... We are told it was spent as designed ??? for training "HSE Staff" in working with people with a disability,,,, Obviously they had to engage an outside contractor costing millions (someones buddies), and enlist hundreds of new staff,,, and managers,,, well the money had to be distributed over a 3 year period,,,, the money was spent well inside the designated time,,, but still no facilities for change in the "Quality of Life" for the people at the bottom of the pile.

This is the way our rulers make things happen, and we aplaud them for it.We are still waiting for the payment "Cost of Disability Allowance", that was discussed, but got left out somewhere along the line..... Is it discrimination, to pay a person on an "old age pension", who perhaps never worked a day in their life, a higher rate, than a person on "Invilidity Pension", whether paralised, or something lesser, but living at home, with no other cost to the state -

Isin't democracy a fantastic system !!

Yes, of course I have a chip on my shoulder, its more like a plank,,,, it may be so large that it impairs my vision of the rest of the "able bodied community",,, but its damned painful, and I'm not forgiving easily.....

Am I discusted with our political leaders ???? Yes, Yes, Yes..... Can the situation be changed ????????? Not unless there is a change in the humanity of the system,,,,,,, we see adverts for blow the whistle on your neighbour who is cheating the system ,,,,, its community wealth ?????? it loks like, we have dropped off the invitation list big time,,,,,, I don't feel like an equal member of society,,,,,,,, I feel like a member of society who worked had for nearly forty years, and paid PRSI ??? ,,, Health Insurance,, Sickness Insurance,, Out of work insurance, and pension Insurance,,, and plenty of TAX....[ and a contribution to FAS ]

That is what I paid for with my forty years PRSI,,, so where is my allowance to live above the poverty line ????????????????

Without being racist or pointing the finger, I can look around, and see where the PAYE money is being mis spent,,,,,,,,,, Not just on the layabouts who never do a days work in their entire life,,, BUt lining the pockets of the people we gave the job, of "minding" our money.

Yes .... The fox is minding the chicken coop ... yes,,, we put him in charge, so if the fox gets fat at the expense of the chickens,,, thats the way we allow it to go...........

Do we cry Fox ! Fox Fox! or wolf, wolf, wolf !!! is anyone out there listening ?????

My tiping finger is sore from all this key hitting,, so I'll leave this to another day, as most of my posts are cut short, by our edditor,,, and maybe just as well !!!!!

Stop bickering among yourselves,,,, write to your elected representative !!!

bye for now Peter 47

Chrissie - 18/03/2009 23:33

To Buzz Re: Your Post # 70 16/03/2009 15:25

You said on this Post to me (God I am so sorry Chrissie. I was half asleep posting that regards to your husband for a speedy recovery!) Will you let me know where you got this from?!!

Ironically yes he is not well, but I did not post it here on this Site, nor on any other Site here - particularly "Rate your Hospital Site". I will indeed post my Husband's experience with this Hospital in due course on RYH.


sammi - 19/03/2009 01:19

WOW isn't lively discussion just great.

Got to be honest guy's i don't know a massive amount about politics, it's something i chose to avoid growing up along with talks on religion, due to the destruction both wrought on people under a veil. too much lying and cheating and hypocrisy. i'm more into logical thinking. 

(but as they say if you aint running with the pack your gonna be left alone) which is clearly how this country is set up, it's rotten and crooked from the top down to the man on the street. money hungry, and pretentious snobbery abound. people have lost the run of themselves in this class system, they've forgotten where they actually stand on the ladder of life. it's ok for the business man who actually has the money, but not for those who were foolish enough to buy ridiculously priced houses at the height of a boom, ( we personally had been counting down to this day for the last 3 years, we knew it was coming, but just didn't know when, but it was sure to arrive and it did, with a bang.) and on top of the overpriced house, they bought seriously over priced cars, but didn't own these cars as they weren't bought they were borrowed really, HP. what's wrong with something low in the miles which does the job, at least you own it.

but it's not the workers fault, as they didn't know the magnitude of the skullduggery that went on behind closed doors. and i think it's fair to say no one saw that coming.

i can tell you one peice of information i gained that i know to be FACT.

the government knew it what was happening, and it PURPOSELY set the public sector and the private sector fighting against one another cos it knows if the two got together and fought the government, they would be a very powerful force and the government would be in trouble.

that is why i keep saying that everybody needs to pull together as one and actually do something about it.

what happened when the ants realised they were more in number than the grass hoppers, they realsied they had more POWER.

and peter 47 you have every right to be vehement about things. as a man who worked for forty years and paid his way only to be kicked in the teeth like a lot of men have.

writing to an elective representative i fear will not achieve much. aren't FG out there every day riding their ***es like zorro to no avail.

this present government needs to be stripped of its power and they all want their big salaries taken off them and their big pensions and they want to be villifed among the people and they ought to be made sign on the dole and live in rented accomodation and taste the hard life and get a bit of an education in this system they've created. for once they should have to work for their money like everyone else.


What is it about the Irish people that they are so slow to confront, REALLY CONFRONT, those they see as authority? Has it something to do with all those years of total obedience to the Church?

it's true. the people are afraid to confront those in authority, those who have the power. now i don't know if your irish and therefore have an understanding of this religious political power.

but yes it is to do with the church, but not alone the church, the church's right hand man, the government.

the saying is " no priest ever went hungry in this country ".

buzz - 19/03/2009 09:58

"Buzz, given that there are hundreds every day losing thier jobs, then I think unemployment due to lack of ob is MORE than obvious , don't you" - what does that even mean? You make no sense. The fact remains that there ARE a lot of people screwing the state, a blind man can see it! And until we get these people back to work there will be less and less money for those who need it and yes by "those" I DO refer to recently unemployed, but then I think you will find I have ALREADY addressed this so please do not put words in my mouth. Of COURSE unemployment is increasing, but I never denied that! All I said was that we should get the layabouts back to work. Why should one couple have to break their backs trying to pay childcare costs while they both work to pay a mortgage while another lives with her partner, claims single parent allowance and sits around all day? Bleeding hearts and the pc brigade would have us believe that all those who claim such welfare have been deserted and left at the side of the road with a clatter of kids but the truth is for MOST this is not the case. I pity you for your naiivety that you cannot see how the state is being swindled out of resources left right and centre by these freeloaders who refuse to work. The Back to work scheme where one retains 100% of their welfare for 1st year, 75% for the second etc etc as well as subsidised FAS courses have ALL been available to these people yet they STILL will not work. There are no excuses left anymore, and anyone who doesn't see through it is blind. Then again I wonder how pious you would be if you were asked to put your money where your mouth is. I genuinely feel for those who were working and have lost their jobs due to the recession, a lot of these people have familes and MORTGAGES to pay, and if YOU really cared about them too then you would support such measures which would force the freeloaders back to work so that there is more money in the pot for those who actually deserve it. You seem to think there is an endless supply of cash. BY supporting those who have lived worry free off the state for years you are not doing any favours for those recently unemployed!

buzz - 19/03/2009 11:19

Some good points, I dont think however it is fair to say that those who bought a family home during the tiger years were necessarily being greedy. There were times when it would ahve cost maybe 1400 per month for a three bed mortage (and if one had a family this was required) and the same house may have been for rent for say 12 or 13 hundred. Given that rents were almost parallel with mortgage repayments, I do not blame anyone who tried to buy rather than rent if they could afford to do so. That said, there were a lot of people who did indulge themselves, wanting the large family home AND an aprtment to rent, the 4wheel drive rather than the ford focus, people iving beyond their means on credit cards and personla loans in order to keep up with the consumerism, instant gratification craze which we went through.

Anonymous - 19/03/2009 11:54

Well Sammi, its true, many people did buy overpriced houses - maybe they thought the book would last forever. And bought overpriced cars, which to me was just silly. Many of us knew the bubble was going to burst and some of these who saw the signs ignored them. Oh wouldn't you love to see some of the over-inflated salaried pompus ministers try to live off social welfare in rented accomodation. Ok Buzz I'll try and rephrase it

Hundreds of jobs are being lost. ergo, unemployment is due to lack of a job. Can't get plainer than that. Yes, there are a small minority screwing the system to say that it is only those recently unemployed who need help and the rest are screwing the systme is a fallacy., Even in the boom there were other reasons for unemployment. I have ALREADYaddressed these. 

The useof perjorative terms such as layabouts, bums etc doesn't acheive anything., If someone lives with their partner then they are quite clearly not a lone parent. Just as if someone is working then they are clearly not entitled to job seekers allowance. It might enlighten you to know that not all lone parents "sit arround all day" but of those who do, as I ALREADY said, if they were working, particularly in low-pay low-skill jobs, who is going to care for the child? There is no state support for childcare here and sadly it is those who vannot see that who are blind.  Thankfully I have no need of pity as I can clearly see far more to the circumstances of many than your scapegoating and use of ignorant terms such as "bums and layabouts"  I put my money where my mouth is every month in the taxes, PRSI, health levy and income levy I pay. OF COURSE I care about those who have lost their jobs due to the recession and I don't think anyone imagines there is an endless supply of cash.

sceptical - 19/03/2009 14:33

Sammi comments: "it's true. the people are afraid to confront those in authority, those who have the power. now i don't know if your irish and therefore have an understanding of this religious political power."

Yes Sammi, I am Irish but with an 'odd' history. Born in Cork, reared in the North - I benefited from free education including third level; totally free medical and dentistry care. The 'dream' of the Republic (Free State), held onto by so many in the North, didn't tell us about the collusion of Church and State BUT, I in the 70s, as a student in Dublin - with all my fees paid and a subsistence grant from the North (British government) - for the first time in my life, I was thought of as "rich"!! My family were - in my mother's words "respectable" - meaning hard workers but there was no surplus money. I would not have the education I have had my father stayed in Cork. They simply couldn't have afforded it.

That's when I started asking questions about the POWER of the Church - well before the truth about Magdalene Laundries, Industrial Schools and child abuse going on (covered up by bishops) in the parishes. Couldn't believe that a REPUBLIC hadn't a proper Health Service; that the Church had TOTAL control over education, both of these meant the poor suffered shocking cruelty but the elite were indulged. None of the rich kids were hammered by the Brothers; none of the rich were incarcerated in homes for 'fallen women'!! I kept thinking - how can the Church favour the rich and persecute the poor.

The big 'rot' started with Charlie Haughey. He lived like a king and for some reason, the people saw nothing wrong with it? I listen to FF supporters all the time who STILL think Charlie was 'great for the country'! Thousands went into exile to get jobs while the Haughey family bought bigger houses and private islands and lived better than the old Anglo-Irish landlords.

How do we explain that mindset? What's the obsession with America? The crazy idea that a small country with 5 million people is on a par with the most powerful nation in the west? The insane notion that we are closer to America than to Europe is pure fantasy. The Republics of western Europe are examples of HOW small independent countries SHOULD function.

The problem for the bloated egos of our FF 'rulers' is that those European leaders have salaries and benefits reflecting the ideals of a Republic; they have adhered to the idea that a Republic 'cherishes ALL the people equally'. They all have better and more equitable systems of government and infrastructure - roads, education, health and APPROPRIATE welfare; there is ACCOUNTABILITY - ministers take responsibility for the failures of their departments and resign.

Ah Sammi - I could write a book. But repeat: the mess we are in today is ALL to do with incompetent, self-serving and profligate rulers who are incapable of learning and don't know the meaning of SHAME.

buzz - 19/03/2009 15:16

"Hundreds of jobs are being lost. ergo, unemployment is due to lack of a job. Can't get plainer than that" - yes some unemployment IS due to losing one's job, I realise that so there is no need to be condescending. The point I was making (Which you have cleverly veered away from ) is that a lot of people are unemployed because the never HAD a job in the first place, or they left to scrounge off the state. THESE are the people I referred to in my first post, and THESE are the people I am STILL referring to. You however remain convinced that these people belomg in the same category as decent men and women who have recently lost their jobs and that is simply not true.

buzz - 19/03/2009 15:18

Yes anonymous the money that you have paid in taxes etc may cover one or two welfare payments - thats it! You are no more special than anyone else who pays tax you know.

buzz - 19/03/2009 15:28

Increasing child care support is something I am in favour of, to help out GENUINE people who are trying to work while raising children. You have yet to convince me that the ONLY reason people claim lone parents is because they do not have the means to return to work. It would be interesting to see what these people would choose to do if given the opportunity to return to employment, though I am confident I know what the result would be. NOTHING would change for them. I will continue to call a spade a spade or a layabout a layabout, as long as I see fit, and no amount of bleeding heart do gooders have convinced me otherwise that these people are anything but. What will you say to the family man who has worked hard all his life, ahs three kids to rear and a mortgage to pay when he loses his job through no fault of his own, and there simply is NO money left after the scroungers have played the system to death? You obviously DO think there is an endless supply of cash if you think we have the resources to fund ALL these indefinitely, otherwise you have had your head buried in the sand for the past year.

hammer - 19/03/2009 15:47

We need to stop generalising.

All public servants are overpaid - people on dole are layabouts - HSE is overstaffed - people with a 2nd home are wealthy - tax the rich -

We need to get people back working. The people who are lucky enough to remian in employment cannot finance Frown

public service wages & pensions, social welfare, education, health service, quango`s, dail eireann, overtime for public servants, dept of justice ( gardai & army etc...)

They also need to be in a position to have disposable income to support retail business, car showrooms, construction sector employment etc.....

SAMMI - 19/03/2009 20:04

hi guys, how ya all doing. Good i hope.

Hi Brandy. You gave me a laugh when i read your post.

Would have replied sooner but along with my spreading b*stard arthritis...

But not in a disappropriate way,

I now have, what they tell me, is a (possibly) recurring pilonidal sinus.....happy days!!

sorry to hear this, although i don't know what it is.

Hi Hammer

We need to stop generalising.

All public servants are overpaid - people on dole are layabouts - HSE is overstaffed - people with a 2nd home are wealthy - tax the rich -

i'd just like to emphasise, i for one am not in the habit of generalising. i'm not voicing opinions on the unfortunate, but on observations of a certain type of people who Buzz, and i have to be fair, rightly so, calls layabouts and bums, i support him on that label as that is the description that fits. Again just as Buzz is saying NOT ALL. But a niche.

there is a family with 7 kids who have been given a fine big free house and they are getting ....... wait for it ........ take a chill pill buzz before ya see it ......

€ 1,200 a WEEK off the state. for not working and having lots of kids. isn't that a great life.

this is the kind of madness i'm talking about.

there has to been an iron fist brought in. simple as.

If a person or persons for whatever reason have children - it is their responsibility to work and provide. if there was no free loading system in place it won't take long for people to be more careful about having kids. NOW don't jump all over me anyone. I'm talking LOGICALLY to prevent and curb an abuse of a system that's in place to make it acceptable for certain TYPES of people to abuse the system.

Now i believe the problem lies with the eejits that are in government, they can't see beyond their pockets.

there should be an apportion of money spent on PREVENTION not CURE. educate young people that it's not happy days to get pregnant. that they are messing up their lives but not working on their education / training / life skills.

there is no excuse to spend years on the dole. there are training courses out there. there is the army.

if the youth were told " you better work hard in school on the study / training cos if you don't it'll be the army for training for 5 years until you learn skills " they would try harder or tough, into the army for training.

if single people were told, there's no new houses. you can't afford to rent one. you've never worked / contributed to society. bedsits are the only option. or else a communal apartment housing scheme where the girls would be put to work / training until they gain skills and EARN their money. NO i'm not insinuating anything like the magdalene laundries etc. and their barbarism.

i'm talking about a system to HELP people, get educated and be trained for the benefit of their future.

there are women out there who for whatever reason the marriage has failed and even though they've needed assistance they have still taken on some form of education / training and they've done it with young children and very little support. but THEY DID IT.

Farms need workers. the army needs uniforms. offices need cleaning. towns need cleaning / tidying. public parks etc need tending. hospitals and hotels need linen etc etc etc the list of possibilities is endless if only the right people, with the right brains and a bit of foresight and the ability to think outside the box, were running the country.

and to be honest ........ and i'm probably gonna be shot for this one ....... this country is not big enough to support all of the non-nationals now the bust has come. and they should be told this and sorry, it's time to go back home where your own government will have to look after you until things get better.

i also happen to know there are a lot of non nationals who are extremely well educated, with degrees and skilled craftsmen etc they are working here, claiming for their children that do not live here ? how does that happen? they are not supporting the foundations and building blocks of this country, their money is going back home, for a majority of them, where they are building their houses and building up their businesses off the backs of this country. then off they go, happy days. YES i know it for a FACT.

so in 5 or 10 yrs the eastern european countries, especially Poland, will be the next up and coming wealthy states, and will any of us be entitled to the same from their government as they have from ours. NOT BLOODY LIKELY - you can be sure of it. you mark my words, it'll happen. and we will still be on our ****s

ooh sorry about that. got a bit carried away didn't i.

Peter 47 - 19/03/2009 23:12

Hi Brandy and all

Just read your post re, Arthritis and your other ailment (second navel). I too am crippled with arthritis for the last 30 years,,, I managed to work up to 10 years ago, until other circumstances blocked my weekly wage... Mine is osteo A. and I was able to work for the 20 years or so on differing medication Cocktails.

Mine is hereditory,,,, I also have Fibromialgia about the last 15 years or so...

You may debate the health service,,, I know one patient who waited to be diagnosed as a diabetic for 5 years,,, that was 2 years after he had a leg amputated.... I know him well,,,, that was me !!!!!

Some years previous I had a road accident, and serious re build leg surgery,,,, I was in a POP for 15 months,,,, I was "on the sick".... after about a year I was "referred", and yes... I was judged fit to return to work,,, on light duties,,,, In the middle of on going surgery, in a full leg POP.

I wrote back to the complaints board, stating my medication [from the Orthapeadic Surgeon] I was forbidden to drive or operate machinery,,, and would not be insured in any work area.... They wrote back, that I should look for a lighter job, or get retraining..... My next door neighbour was driving a new car at the time,,, with 5 children,,,and had NEVER worked ,,,, EVER...

Such is the system,,, Like you Brandy, I was raised and educated (well) under British opression, and was raised in a work environment, in a country area, in Co Down,,,, I never heard of pocket money,,, I earned mine at home and with neighbours doing odd jobs, at all hours........ in all weather.......

Still the system was made to wotk, and there are plenty who know how to work it ...... I know a family on slave wages, who qualify for Medical card,,, just about.... at one stage last year one child was in hospital for about 4 months,,, and loosing that child to the hospital system, nearly lost them the medical card for the whole family.... isint it a great system, where a Bank Manager in a small town, had his mortage paid by the Health Board,,, while the other ranks in the bank were on strike.... I overheard it myself I was in the next office.... Great !!!


This is the system we are living with all the time,,,, That same Bank Manager forclosed on quite a few Mortgages in the last recession... Is this the way it is to continue ??? will we ever know the extent these fat cats have robbed the system ??? we are the ones who will be paying through the nose, for years to come,,,,,,, and why not,,, we are the working people, and will allways be dependable to cover up the "indiscressions" of our Masters and leaders.

The time is here now for REVOLUTION, and we have our own self stiled ROYALTY, who treat us all as slaves, and take the cream for themselves, and leave us the dregs, and if we're lucky ????,, the buttermilk ?????

I wonder what would be the outcome, if there was a revolution,,,, imagine all the blood from the beheadings.... who wouldd we put in charge of cleaning up the mess of blood and gore ???? HSE ???? what does HSE stand for ????

Can someone please sort this out,,, I'm trying to be a retired person,,, in my old age ! Peter 47

Chrissie - 19/03/2009 23:58

I saw on RTE tonight all information re: how they run our government, it was quite informative to see how much money they are all getting running our government all TDs. Ministers, Junior Ministers, expenses for same. The whole lot was absolutely astounding to know.

I learned anyway that Budget is set for 7 April. I know from some of the posts here as in e.g. (heard lower tax credits may go down) we know P.A.Y.E. is set to hit all workers who are working. (it was said here and quite so the less workers there are - how can they pay those on benefit - they cannot balance the Books) I quite agree with that.

As our Leader Brian Cowan said some time ago everyone has to tighten their belts. It now looks like we just have to wait and see who he is going to penalize to stay within the remit of monetarty figures to help our economy!

I do hope they do not lower benefits in kind as in Disability Benefit, Invalidity Benefit, and Benefit to those over 70s. It seems everyone here has an idea but who will listen to us. To know about this Programme I listened to, it can be heard on the internet on Editor do let this go to post. Users here can watch it there, if they missed the programme on RTE.

Chrissie - 20/03/2009 02:14

To Peter 47 Re: Your Post 18/03/2009 15:34

I would just like to let you know "What you wrote on this post speaks volumes:-

Most importantly "Stop bickering among yourselves.... write to your elected representative!!!

I would also urge persons reading this Site to in-undate them to do this. I will write, email them (Maybe someone from this Site, or other Sites here will say I've already done this and got no replies). I say this not to vent those who have done this. Well I have written, did emails too. I got some replies, then got no replies. But before our June Local Election comes if we keep on in-undating saying our opinion again and again, just maybe things will change for the very young trying in hard times to keep their homes.

As regards my post to Buzz saying Ironiically my husband is ill. Yes he is, it took 4 weeks for his full sick contributions to be paid to him, we are still awaiting a Medical Card which we are entitled to. It's been costing me 100 Euros for my medication, 55 euros to my G.P. each time I saw him. (I'm not complaining about my payments which I had to pay while he worked) and he too has worked an awful lot of years. Now we have the add ons of him paying for our G.P. to come to our Home, he's now on medication for his illness, but at least the (Drugs Payment Scheme 100 Euros) covers his mediction.

I'm not only talking about our Family circumstances but to explain I've looked over posts here and no one has come forward to say how they are affected with their Wife/Husband losing work or both of them either having children or not. Well it happened to my Niece who is 25 years old and Married with two children. Her Husband lost his job and went down with his P45 to the unemployment office. He had to wait 6 weeks to get his Dole money, had to wait to get help for his Medical Card to cover his Wife, himself, and 2 children. They are buying their home since 7 years ago before they got married. They still have a big mortgage per month, and don't know how they'll cope with all this. She's looking for a Job and he is too. I believe I can tell my story as others did on this Site. Both sides of their Family are trying to help them, and they appreciate this. I say all this to yous now to try make things change.

I believe the young, and their children, our Grandchildren, we all want a better life for them.

hammer - 20/03/2009 11:30

Lets have a look at deficit prior to MAXI budget April 7, 2009

Deficit 22,500,000,000

Working population 1,800,000

40% pay no tax , people contributing therefore 1,080,000

deficit divided by people contributing = €20,833 each !!!!!!!!!!

Peter 47 - 20/03/2009 11:39

Hi Chrissie

I have only one piece of advice, -- make that two.

1 ) Have your neice, her husband, and the children go to the local Community Office. Get a claim form,,, they will need married Licence, birth certs (for all). P60, (declaration of earnings) for him, and a certificate of income from Social Welfare.

Take home the form,, fill it in,,, add extra reasons and answers to everything.

Bring them to your local office suply shop , or somewhere you can photocopy EVERYTHING.... at least twice.

Bring a photocopy of the P60 to your local tax office (Revenue, not road tax) LOL.. Tongue out fill out a claim for return of tax, since the start of the year,,, you can say he does not see himself getting a job within the remainder of this tax Year.

Get claim forms for everything you missed out claiming on in the past, Back to school, Clothing and footware; Childrens school bus; Obviously Medical card ( General Medical Service Card); House hold allowance.... you will qualify as the husband is the sole breadwinner, eg TV licence, ESB allowance, Fre Travle, Heating Supplement, try for Diet allowance too, Telephone allowance (now includes Bill Pay Mobile) and DO'NT FORGET RENT ALLOWANCE.(Mortgage Reilef)

There is more,,, but its years since I did volountary Citizens Information...

To put it bluntly... these are the allowances given out to all and any economic migrants who arrive in our fair land,,, on day one...

Also extra clothing for winter / summer... Travle allowance to go to hospital or your GP; They have free food stamps, FFS, in USA... We have free everything else.

Yes go to CIS and get all the leaflets,,, send for claim forms for EVERYTHING...There will be a Community Welfare Officer call to your home....Be ready to show him/her, the condition they are living,,,, needs a new push chair,,, new washing machine... carpet in the living room..

Have I opened your eyes somewhat ?????.... No, I do not qualify for all that stuff... I do have the free travle, but cannot use it,,, I do have a TV licence and a rebate on my ESB,,, but I reckon I earned that well... over the years, I nearly lost my GMS card a while back, my second son called around one day, and that was the day the on the spot check was done,,,,,, lucky he was able to show proof of residence, down the country, and there were no beds in the bedrooms,,,, its that close,,,, they did not call to my neighbour with the new car,,,, he fell off the list years ago...

VIVA LA REVOLUTION ! peter 47 Innocent Happy Days Cool


Peter 47 - 20/03/2009 12:09

Hammer !

I think your figures are way off.... you say take out the non tax payers ???

Take out the Public Sector numbers,,, its more like €50,000 each for this year.../ or €1,000 per week [ deduction ] or €143 per day for the PAYE workers,,, who will be the ones to have the pleasure of being the modern Patriots, by giving their sweat and blood, to keep the Nation from Drowning.

Peter 47 Frown

buzz - 20/03/2009 12:12

Sammi you seem to have the same opinions as me, though perhaps my anger at the situation given personal circumstances clouded my ability to be as eloquent! :) Of course nobody wants to see a woman and her child living on the streets or in a bedsit with limited resources, nobody wants to see those who are recently unemployed struggling to feed their babies or paying for the roof over their head but the fact remains that a lot of people do swindle money from the system, and this is unfair. Of course if a woman has a clatter of children and her husband deserts her (or indeed if the man is left with the children, as has happened) then they should have access to welfare, especially considering childcare costs for one let alone a couple of children. It would be next to impossible for this person to return to work with so many children to look after, and after paying childcare, one would have to be on a huge salary to make it worth their while. But what about people who were never in employment. Who left school and started having babies? If they required social welfare payouts on their FIRST child then why did they have the second? if they required payouts on their first and second child then why did they have the third? See what i am getting at? There needs to be a PROPER system in place that allows for GENUINE applicants to be awarded payment, and those who are making a living off the state be singled out. A system where one is granted payment for one child, but if they keep on churning them out should we be taken for fools? This would be a good deterrent I believe. Now more than ever we need to ensure that those who do NOT deserve payment cannot take the proverbial, in order that we have enough funds to support those who DO.

Also, I said this before and it did not go down too well, but the big danger with cutting payments is that it is the children who will suffer, not the parents,and that is not fair as we need to protect our children. Instead of giving someone (for example) e400 per week and trusting them to use it for their children (after all that is its intended purpose) why not give 200 in payment and the other 200 in vouchers for school books, clothes, food etc? degrading as it may sound, I have heard from the horse's mouth (though I wont disclose the area) that at one stage in a deprived part of Dublin, free school books were supplied for the children. What did the parents do? They sold the books for drink and cigarettes. How is that helping the kids? This is the kind of mentality we are up against

buzz - 20/03/2009 12:24

Hi Chrissie I hope your husband is doing well. To be honest I am not sure how I knew, I think there was some confusion with posts but I cannot be sure. My Father is in a somewhat similiar situation. He was self employed all his life (and no he didnt stash thousands during the tiger years as most people seem to think is  agiven with the self employed!Laughing) He worked a physically demanding trade from his early teens and now he is in his 60's and he is so bet down and unable for work. He is entitled to NOTHING so for the next four years he has no income. Between my siblings and myself we are paying what is left on the mortgage and we are lucky that this is something we can afford but there are rakes of credit card bills and loans that were ran up over the past few years, NOT to buy new cars or flash holidays but to actually keep food on the table and bills paid. It is a great worry for him and he should not have this worry after nearly 50 years toiling! This is why it angers me so much to see the financial rewards for getting pregnant and living with your partner (and pretending that you're not) it is a ridiculous system that is played day in and day out by those who know it best. 

When I consider the difference between my Dad and myself re work, it seems a joke to be honest. I have a secure and reasonably well paid job, pay 20% tax and PRSI like everyone else on this band. My Dad comes out with LESS money than me every week, he pays 20% income tax and he pays slightly less PRSI as he pays S class instead od A class. If I lost my job tomorrow I would be entitled to unemployment or job seekers at 204 per week, plus rent allowance at 85 per week. If my Dad is physicaly incapable of working or work dries up due to economic downturn, he gets NOTHING. Wheres the logic?

buzz - 20/03/2009 13:12

Um... perhaps its the way its phrased but if someone is giving up €1000 a week in DEDUCTIONS then they are probably paid enough to afford it! Deductions ARE after all a PERCENTAGE of ones wage, people seem to forget that!

buzz - 20/03/2009 13:17

Why on earth are we trying (once again) to create a public/private divide? There are plenty of discussions on this going on elsewhere! Just because someone is private sector does not mean they dont pay tax!

SAMMI - 20/03/2009 16:45

Hi guys.

i agree with you buzz and there is nothing wrong with expressing righteous anger, it's just sometimes you get a peach who chooses to take what people say out of context.

We are only a few expressing the same concerns. can you imagine the hundreds of thousands in the country who are saying the same thing !!!!!!!1

Imagine if those same hundreds and thousands took to the streets. then the government would HAVE to hear.

One question i have all that's been playing on my mind for weeks is this .......

is it possible to oust a government ?

if so, How?


Chrissie - 20/03/2009 17:11

To Peter 47 and Buzz

Thank you so much for showing the concern on my Niece's situation and my Husband. It's good to know that in these times of troubles being it monetary matters, health matters there are people who care.

I will let yous know how things progress, Peter you and your Wife have a heavy load to carry. I sincerely wish you every blessing. To Buzz you and your siblings are very caring to your Dad.



Peter 47 - 20/03/2009 23:37

Just a side note... Anyone who has hospital inpatient treatment,,, ask to see the Patient laison officer,, Hospital welfare officer, S/he can short track a General Medical Services card, on the condition that that patient is the breadwinner, and is in medical care, and will be for X number of weeks..... If they are not working, they will qualify for the GMS card on the spot. (they cannot work in hospital)

If the patient has to stay off work for lets say more than 13 weeks... there is +an option to claim "back to work allowance" which allows some time, to retain the GMS card, for GP and Medication  as well as any family supplementary payments which may have qualified. This will vary from 1 HSE area to another.

There is a definet NO reply to all this, but if suggested that it is the done thing, and expected, you will usually get around it,,, after a few weeks maybe.

Ask your GP to put OTC medication on the presciption, and take a photocopy as well as the pharamacy receipt...

Also if you are paying Private health insurance, be sure to get a bill off the GP. also if an inpatient in a hospital where you are not impressed with the service, tick the boxes on the return form, advise a deduction be made for the poor service or food or whatever........ don't forget, the HSE is funding the bill in part, somewhere along the line, and that means me and you !!!

If your patient is coming home to recupriate, and needs medical care at home, ask the patient liason in the hospital to arange for the district nurse to call... its her job... make sure she provides any and all dressings and bandages needed for home use. Its easier than geting receipts and refunds, and work out cheaper on the system in the long term.

Thats all for tonight boys and girls,,, I have to take me meds,,, and get a nights sleep... Perhaps ???

Peter 47 =:)

docg - 23/03/2009 13:17

Some of these bonuses are more than my annual income. I suppose I should be grateful that the H.S.E. is making a mess of things. I'd hate to think how much money these incompetents would be getting if they were by chance successful!

buzz - 23/03/2009 14:58

Hi Chrissie, yes if you can please keep us updated, my thoughts are with you. It can be so difficult to see a loved one ill, one can feel so frustrated and helpless to do anything! Re my Father, we are simply returning the favour. Had my parents made a decision not to have children I am sure they would be (financially) much better off now! The tables turn, things go full circle, and we give back as much as we were given, if we can. Since our system is so screwed that those who play up on it get everything and those who work hard all their lives and pay slightly less PRSI get nothing if they are too ill to work, then of course we must step in and help out, because if we dont, nobody will! Of course, we would help out anyway regardless but I sometimes wonder and feel for those who may see their parents in a similar position, worked to the bone, weary of life and being left with nothing - who cannot afford to help out.

buzz - 23/03/2009 15:00

Some of the bonuses are sickening. Can anyone imagine what it must be like to have such a vast amount of money? I think I would have problems knowing what to do with it!

SAMMI - 23/03/2009 21:26

Hi all hope ye are well.

i couldn't belive what i read in the paper. HSE consultants etc are to get their bonuses. the mind boggles. it really does. it just gets too depressing to buy the paper.

i feel the same as you buzz, it's just a given that if your parents get ill ye will do all ya can to help/look after them.

chrissie i hope things are going ok for you.

illness benefit is something that can be claimed when a person is off sick. i've had to put in for carers allowance as i can't claim jobseekers as i can't work due to my husband's back op. but thank god he is a changed man for it. it should of been done years ago. it has cost us so much financially and emotionally. what a roller coaster ride. it's been hard for the kids too as ya can't play with them or do anything when your flat on your back. and it's so upsetting to see a person in so much pain that you can do nothing to help.

but it's highly unlikely i'll get anything for carers as that's another beaurocratic admin system.

" the devil looks after his own ".

how true.

can you imagine 320,00 a year plus 80,000 on top.

buzz, i'm afraid i certainly know what i would do with it. SPEND SPEND SPEND ha ha.

just think, no mortgage, no worries. heaven.

they are the highest paid in europe for god's sake. and from what i can see it wouldn't be too hard to get someone to so a better job for less money. and that includes the politicians.

i sent an email to mary harney's office, didn't even get an acknowledgemnet. i'd love to meet that one on the street.

i see they have gone bonkers in france, mass disruption. fair play to them i say.

Chrissie - 24/03/2009 00:01

To Buzz thanks for your thoughfulness - To Peter 47 Thanks for your Advise:

Well we finally got a Letter covering myself and my Husband for a Medical Card. In this Letter it states same information sent to your General Practioner. In due course we'll get our Plastic Medical Card which covers us for a year. I went on the Net and found out who represented where I live, rang our Local constituency office and told of our circumstances. I also told her I would email them, and put our full name and address on same. When I enquired last time of our medical card in our H.S.E. Area I was told it would take up to 7-8 weeks to process it, that there's a big backlog of Medical Card Applicants.

So verbally I got back onto constituency office and told them about this, and within a few days my Husband received a Letter from this T.D. more or less saying in a very refined way as regards your query been dealt with. Should you have further enquiries please do not hesitate to contact me. Then a few days later we got the Letter for our Medical Card.

Just to let yous know my Husband's medical condition is not life threathening Thank God, but he will be out of work for months on end for rehabiliation seeing Doctor and Physiotherapist in the Hospital per 2 weeks ongoing. But mostly what worries us we have 9 years to go to finish our mortgage, he was a manual worker, and if he does not get his leg muscles back working again because of a fall he had which needed more extensive orthopaedic surgery than was thought before they went in to do operation, but I'll work on that and approach our (Local CWO) Community Welfare Officer to see about any help for finance.

I will try to recover my two months Drugs Payment Money if I can, I have receipts for them. Also I have said here I will Rate my Hospital, it's for him. In between I'm getting him to write it from his opinion. So I'll do that in the next few days and add my name.

If yous would like to refer to a posting on "Why our Hospitals Simply Aren't Working, I have a post there about my Daughter.

Just to end this for now-medical conditions do happen, and in most cases we have no control over it, but for years I am really worn out fighting for my rights. On that Site I wrote at end "I will walk that street, and the right street". What I'm now saying, I'll do it on Budget day, I would love to see many many others do it too if they can or their relatives that they are not to hit those on Social Welfate Benefits, especially those on Books. I say this for others, not just for myself, I survived a Brain Haemorrhage many years ago and have an Invalidiaty Pension. It is our right in our Democracy to protest on the Streets once it's a peaceful march. If persons do this, they have an absolute right to do so. Editor I do hope you will allow this last paragraph to be posted.



Anonymous - 24/03/2009 11:25

Well Sceptical, you have a mine of insight and your posts make very interestign reading. Keep them coming. Buzz, I was not trying to be condescending at all. You asked me to explain, therefore I explained. Yes, there are a small minority of people who are unemployed now, were unemployed during the boom years when there was plenty of work and were unemployed in the 80's and 70's. I saw them in my parents village and I see them in my own village. These are of course a different ctegory of people than those recently unemployed as to me, they seem to lack both the skills and the ability to work. No Buzz, my tax payments are no more "special" than yours but with that comment you have no room to accuse others of condescension.

"Increasing child care support"? Well havign it in the first place would be a great start. At the moment it doesn't exst. If you have two children and no partner, with no child care or means to pay for it - then no, you cannot go out to work with no one to are for your children. Yes, it would be interesting to see what lone parents would choose to do if given the opportunity to return to employment - and until that is the case you have NO way of telling what the result would be - unless of course you have spoken to every lone parent in the country! The use of perjoratve terms achieves precisely nothing - except attempt to pit one sector of society against another, which might well suit the corrupt elite. "bleeding heart do gooders" Now there's a cliche which makes me laugh. Of COURSE no one thinks there is an endless supply of cash - anyone imagining that DOES Have the head buried in the sand. For a family man or women who has worked hard and has three kids to rear and a mortgage to pay , when they loose their job, they see the banks being bailed out, the politicians coining it and the 'golden circles' and property developers who have gotten obscenely rich and like anyone with a pair of eyes in their head, they KNOW where the money has gone. Brandy has it right - the biggest and most destructive 'freeloaders' in this state are the despots who have misled, misdirected and murdered the economy through their arrogance, stupidity and bloody greed.

Anonymous - 24/03/2009 11:26

I agree Sammi, If a person or persons for whatever reason have children - it is their responsibility to work and provide. But where those people cannot, for whatever reason, provide, it is the responsibility of the state to step in. When there were no payments, children suffered, children went hungry, lacked basic medical care, and became the hidden poor. Is this a system we want to return to?However, I agree completely with your sound common sense, there should be money spent on PREVENTION - educating young people that it's not happy days to get pregnant. that they are messing up their lives and not working on their education, training and life skills. Well said. When are schools goign to be compelled - yes, COMPELLED, to make this part of life skills for ALL young people.

The army is not suitable for everyone nor does it admit everyone. I agree with regard to trainign courses but it is not possible to remain on job seekers allowance for years, There is assessment and pretty stringent assessment after a year. The Army commander has already spoken out and said thy are not some sort of back up "youth boot camp" or unemployment trump card. That is not their function whatsoever. Also, I believe conscription - which is what you are suggestion, is unconstitutional.

If anything, the housing authorities are trying to phase out bedsits - even for single people with no children as they are simply not of an acceptiable standard. A communal apartment housing scheme sounds like a positive thing and young mothers (or fathers) would be able to help each other out. I glad you clarified that you weren't insinuating anything like the magdalene laundries - becuase when you mention "where the girls would be put to work" that is exactly what it sounds like. On the subject of non-nationls, as EU citizens they have a legal entitlement to be here and are within their legal rights. This is what we signed up for as EU members. YES, we are entitled to live and work in Poland and claim national assistance there should we need it.

Peter, you were treated ABOMINABLY with regard to social welfare while you were ill. And there was the Bank Manager, foreclosing on mortgages while having his own paid by the same system which was denying you your entitlements. Sickening.

Anonymous - 24/03/2009 11:37

Buzz, If a lone parent required social welfare payouts on their FIRST child then why did they have the second? Well without asking them, I couldn't know - all circumstances are different. If there is a system where one is granted payment for one child, but then has a second, what do you propose, we let the second child starve?

200 in payment and the other 200 in vouchers for school books, clothes, food etc sounds like an excellent idea. At least now we are hearign some positive suggestions. The way your father is being treated is totally unfair also. There needs to be a social welfare system in place for the self employed where they can also pay the same rate of contributions, in cases where they cannot afford private unemployment cover - as I'm sure some cannot.

Some fantastic advice there Peter 47, Good to know.

buzz - 24/03/2009 12:01

Sammi re the carers allowance I can offer some advice, having experinece with the application process through a family friend. Do you work? Carers allowance is intended for those who cannot work because they are caring or have to give up work because they are caring for someone. It will be means tested. What you need to do is apply for it in your name (they will take spouse's income into account). Also, did you have to install anything in the house to make life easier for the person you are caring for? Do you have to help out with things like washing (him or his clothes), meals etc? Do you have to be there for the majority of the time. or if not have you a direct line of communication where you can be reached and make yourself available if you are needed? See what I am saying? The system that will decide if you are entitled is worked on a points system and you get certain "points " for each piece of criteria filled. Also doctors letter which states that this person NEEDS your help and CANNOT be without it. Good luck! You sound like you deserve a bit of helping out!

buzz - 24/03/2009 15:33

no of course I dont propose that we let the second child starve that is ridiculous, what I propose is some system that provides a deterrent from having more children if you cannot afford to feed them. Having a child is not, like you wish to believe, an automatic right that the taxpayer should fund. What about providing payment for the first child, and vouchers for the second. or cards that act like credit cards that are charged with money and can be used in school book/uniform shops, grocery stores (with the exclusion of alcohol and tobacco) and toy stores, childrens clothes shops etc. Our government needs to THINK. I have no problem feeding a second child that is unfortuante enough to be born to someone who cannot care for it, but I DO have a problem feeding drink and drug habits of those who procreate recklessly.

buzz - 24/03/2009 15:35

Yes anonymous he enquired about paying a higher rate in order to have more social security and he was told where to go (proverbially!) Laughing

buzz - 24/03/2009 15:43

Anonymous I think you will find that I have already quite clearly addressed the distinct difference between those recently unemployed and those freeloaders who simply have no desire to work. I never lumped the two in together. I was not being codescending with my point re tax, i was simply pointing out that many people will not put their money where their mouth is and the reality is the funds are drying up and soon there will not be enough cash to fund the freeloaders. When this happens, they will of course continue to up the taxes on people who DO work. How is that fair?

Anonymous - 24/03/2009 17:50

Buzz, deterents have been proven not to work unless there is something to support them. I know a great means of preventing babies - it is called contraception and requires education and the means of access. This should definitely be in place. I don't believe that having a child is an automatic right that the taxpayer (you and I) should fund. Where did you get that nonsensical notion from? I have no problem with the provision of vouchers or cards that act like credit cards that can be used in school book/uniform shops, grocery stores, toy stores, childrens clothes shops etc. I think we all have a problem feeding drink and drug habits of those who are irresponsible.

That the right for your father to pay a higher rate in order to have more social security - in the absence of a private unemployment insurance, was deneid to him, is frankly apalling. A system should be in place where that is made possible. As I've said before, creating divisions between people and using perjorative terms achieves nothing, except maybe the delight of the actual freeloaders who are corrupt beyond beyond beleif and have taken the ordinary men and women of this country for an absolute r*d* financially over the last years.

SAMMI - 25/03/2009 19:59

Hi anonymous 

On the subject of non-nationls, as EU citizens they have a legal entitlement to be here and are within their legal rights. This is what we signed up for as EU members. YES, we are entitled to live and work in Poland and claim national assistance there should we need it.

NO IRISH NEED APPLY those are the signs that are up on building sites in Poland to my knowledge.

and i wasn't talking about the workers. i was talking about the non workers, living on benefits, free houses etc. those that are not paying tax and contributing to the country. those that are sitting on the streets all day begging, or stealing.

thanks buzz for the advice on carers.

my husband ( see hope for chronic pain sufferers ) had to get op on disc, he was so crippled he couldn't work for some time - or walk for that matter -  i had to give up work to stay home and mind him pre-op. he had surgery 2 wks ago, is looking good so far but will be off work for 6 months at least. he's not allowed drive at moment, only walk, stand up, sit down and lie down. so i have to mind the house, kids ect as he can't do anything.

so i can't claim jobseekers, as technically i'm not able to go out to work so i'm putting in the paperwork for carer's. i was talking to a lady and she said unless you are incapacitated and need round the clock care almost, then it's really hard to get anything off them.

he's not working, i'm not working, lots of bills and the mortgage to pay, happy days. still there is light at the end of the tunnel, hopefully he'll be sound again.

years of suffering because a consultant says he won't operate, goodbye. didn't even get on the list for an operation so we could avail of patient purchase fund, soo now we also have the €6,000 debt for that to pay back.

a simple 55 minute operation was all it took and i tell ya buzz what a difference, the following afternoon he could walk.

these lads know they can do what they want and treat you like dirt because if you haven't got large financial means to go down the legal route for negligence or misconduct there is nothing you can do.

i read in the paper today an ex-running mate of cowen's who's been done for fraud, was crying to the judge ( assets have been frozen ) he needs € 4,000 a week to live on to run his house.

a kick up the h*** i'd like to give him.

My one wish if i could make it happen is throw out the government on the street, along with brendan drumm and ALL top executives and consultants on stupid la la land wages, strip them of everything they own and make them live on social for a taster.

wouldn't a reality progrram be nice, follow them around with a camera and see how they fare.

buzz - 26/03/2009 11:55

Hi Sammi, it is difficult to be awarded it that is true but dont be put off by what other people tell you. I know someone who was recently awarded it and the person that they are caring for does not live with them full time. If the person does not live in it suffices that you are within commuting distance to them and at the other end of the phone and can travel to them within a reasonable amount of time if needs be. In this case, they do a daily visit to clean and provide a hot meal at dinner time as well as preparing sandwiches for supper. They bring him to all his doctor appointments, collect prescriptions, do food shopping, collect pension and pay rent, do laundry, buy new clothes and towels etc when needed as well as taking care of maintenance of the property - bins, ntl, phone and other services. They were told that they didnt have a hope in hell of being awarded this payment becasue the elderly person was not living with them but once you can prove that you have to provide care and be available to do more if needed then you should not have a problem. The 3 most important things to keep in mind is that: 1. it is means tested, 2. you must be available (so not working) and 3. a doctor to certify that this person requires assistance. Good luck

Anonymous - 26/03/2009 11:56

Hi Sammi, those signs then are illegal.

The only non-nationals here who get a "free house" (rented for them by social services) are asylum seekers who are on a subsistence benefit of €20-odd euro per week. They are not ALLOWED to work until their case is heard and decided. Those who are here illegally are another matter and some means need to be put into place which will ensure all cases are heard and decided within weeks - if we have leanred anything at all from other countries experience of this.

Sounds like your husband had a terrible time of it healthwise. I'm glad to hear he's on the mend now. Best of luck with the carers applicaiton. It really does sound like you are definitley someone who needs it and is entitled (or should be) to it.

€ 4,000 a week to live on to run his house!! There are people doign it on one 20th of that. I'd be right behind you in giving him a kick up the ***.

The government ministers I'd like to see live of social welfare alone for about a year - see how thet get on. As for ALL top executives and consultants on la la land wages, it would be legally  impossible to strip them of everything they own unles by means of the Criminal Assets Bureau if they are guilty of a crime (I know they are morally many of them but I mean legally.)

A reality program to follow them around with a camera and see how they fare sounds absoluely genius!! Make it a 'pay-per-view' of a euro per episode. Sure the whole country would tune in and the revenue made would have us out of a recession in no time.

Peter 47 - 26/03/2009 12:26

Hi Sammi


I presume you did not win the lottery ???   So I would advise you call to both Citizens Information, and MABS, in your own town.

There is money available, in the case of an accident where for example  a compo claim is invisaged....   Community Welfare Officers (HSE), will provide a living wage for whatever period of time,,,, and re-claim the payments when settled.

No one is expected to live with no means of support.  Get all the current info from HSE and MABS, and make an apointment with the Supervisor, Community Welfare Officer, in your district,,, have all the forms ready (post 97 and 103). You may have to show a current Bank Statement, and Credit card Debt, but that is the regulation, and as you had no luck on the lottery !  you will definetly be due a payment,,,, regardless of work history.

There is an allowance for "money put by for Bereavments".   I do not have the figure, also a few € as well not included. Get explanatory leaflets with all application forms.

You HAVE to get a living allowance right away !!!

Things like Mortgage allowances can wait a few weeks,,,, the hospital bills can also be worked on... HSE again.... do try to talk to the engine driver,,, not the oily rag...

Things will work out,,, you are an Irish National,,, you would be entiteled to all this subvention in any other EU Country,,, so why not your own ????

I'll have to close now, as I had a good few posts bounced as "Too Large".

Best of luck      Peter   47 

PS.   There is a booklet on Payments from DSCFA.

Peter 47 - 26/03/2009 13:35

Hello again Sammi.

Glad to know your patient is doing well, and on the road to recovery.

Just had a look at the web.

If you gave up your job to help at home you MUST qualify for Carers allowance...

You said something about low rate PRSI Contributions,,, well,,,

People with a disability can claim "Disability Benefit" for 12 months, with class "P" contributions. [ farmers, fishermen, self employed ].

After that with a means test, he can claim "Disability Allowance", from HSE rate at present is €124.80, + 1 Adult @ €82.80.,,,, dont know if the Carers  Allowance is paid as well.,,,, if you were working, and he had full PRSI, he could claim for you, and carers as well, if done by another family member...

Here is a list of "Means Tested", payments, Allowances are paid by HSE. Benefits are Paid by DHCFA.

Disability Allowance; Mobility Allowance; Supplementary Welfare Allowance; Occupational Injury Benefit; Injury Benefit / Medical care; Unemployability Supplement; Constant Attendance Allowance; Constant Care Allowance;  Diet Supplement;home heating allowance; also Household Benefits Package, which includes, Phone Rental, ESB, TV Licence, Free Travle Pass.... and dont forget......

GENERAL MEDICAL SERVICES CARD,,,, That is the one which will determine the Means Test..

If you have any fast success with some of those you can start buying groceries again, and stop living on Blackberry and turnip sandwiches....

Cheers  ________  Peter  47

SAMMI - 27/03/2009 09:29

thanks guy for advice.

peter you are a wealth of info. have put in claim for illness benefit, will look into it too see should it be disability.

trouble with hubby is - typical olde worlde irish man - they hate to have to mention the word social, let alone have to claim it.

has anyone else noticed that the people behind the desks are not inclined to actually list out your rigths an entitlements, like you should automatically know all this stuff. and god, you'd want to be a secretary to deal with all the paperwork that's involved.

hi anonymous

we know the signs are illegal. but they are there.

i know of houses that are full of non nationals claiming benefits. rent allowance and dole? not asylum seekers. also they get children's allowance for their children that are living back home and are not in this country.

my point is, if they are on welfare here, there is no work for them and given the present economic climate, why can't their own government pay it.

cadbury's is the next big firm to move to poland. devastating blow.

does anyone remember the gama scandal in this country not so long ago.

all the small non skilled jobs that were depended on and were vital to the women returners and non skilled workers and students are gone. shops, garages, agri stores, builders stores, farming, equine, building sites, road works, a broad spectrum, these jobs were given to non nationals and a lot of them are doing it for low wages.

they are better of here on welfare than they are at home working. there was an article in the paper when it was announced dell was moving. it showed how little money they get back home.

love your idea of the pay per view - ha ha. it'd make millions.

can anyone answer me this.

how is this government still here? why hasn't it been replaced?

Anonymous - 27/03/2009 12:11

Hi Sammi, I see what you mean about non-natioanl claiming now - you mean people from other EU states. Well yes, they are entitled to claim here, just as we are. I can't understand them recieving social welfare from our government for children who don't live here tho'. To be that makes no sense whatsoever. I do indeed remember gama - the scandal were low-paid workers from eastrn Eutrope were being exploited if I remember rightly. Didn't know about Cadbury's tho. That will be another big loss.

Good luck with all the paperwork, sounds like you need it.

Peter 47 - 27/03/2009 12:45

Hi Again Sammy

Right on.... Apply for everything, and keep a photocopy,,, keep all your till receipts from shopping, have a statement from your Bank / Mortage Co.

Make out a claim without delay, for Rent / Mortage Allowance,,,, Diet Suppliment, heating ect. You may claim for exta warm winter clothes, electric blanket, .....

don't forget, when the Medical card comes through, you will qualify for all the "Household Benefits" package... Travel Pass, TV Licence ,,, ect...

There has been negotitations for many years for a "cost of disability" allowance, we could have aforded it in the Tiger years,,,, but the barrel is nearly empty now.

Keep the pressure on,,,, MABS and Comhairla and CIS, can help,a lot.

Smile now and again,,, it releases endorfins,,, and helps you live longer !!!

Cheers Peter 40 (getting ready for the budget cuts) Cool

buzz - 27/03/2009 12:55

Cadbury is relocating? No doubt this will affect the quality of the chocolate, the same way that marks and spencer clothes started shrinking in the wash when they began getting them made in developing countries. Cheap labour, cheap product quality. Great.

SAMMI - 27/03/2009 21:13

OMG Buzz



So you saw it too. About clothes shrinking in the wash. I knew it had to be so. I've been saying it for years (my lot think i'm slightly nuts, wandering around mumbling to myself about all this crap they don't give a s**** about -oh to be young again).

Peter your a darling, thanks so much for advice and your wit that always makes me smile.

thank god for the internet,ha.

Peter 47 - 28/03/2009 17:56

I see Mr Fingerton is going to return the €1,000,000. Taken after the bank was bought out by the Irish Public..... They say it was allocated early last year ?????

All I can ask is :- If he got the money on or before October 1, and hands it back, say, this April fools day !!! How much intrest was accumulated in those 6 months and... is that going to be repaid as well ????

So,,,, Thats a start,,, what about all the other Managers and Board Members ??? what was their bonus worth, and was paid to the other directors , in the smouldering remains of the Major loan Bank in the Island of Ireland.

We are the sharehilders now !!! do we demand pay back time is here ???

Did yous all see the AGM, stockholders meeting on TV the other day?? Was'nt it great to hear the New Head of BOI apologise for the "poor dividend", being paid out this year ??? What else would you expect, the Shares had fallen in value from €80 odd to €0.18 or thereabouts,,, any wonder they needed a new top man !!!! How much is it going to cost to pay back all this, when WE get the BILL for it.

Still no leak on the next budget secrets act ??? I see Labour is crying in the wind for the "Cinderella" pasport holders to have some decency and pay their fair share of Tax,,, thats like asking a child for the sweets back, when they are all gone,,,, No Chance. The laws on Tax for "exiles" must be changed to enforce the collection of these loophole friendly tax dodgers.

If the Tax laws were changed in the new budget, how long would it take the CAB, and Revenue, to rake in the millions " owed " for say the last 3 years ???

The loopholes were created for the "friends of Friends" who seem to be allowed celebrity status, as "Irish Men", when they are allowing the rest of the country's poor, pay the lions share, to try to support the system.

We heard a rumour of two and a half billion, at the last budget,,,, that was from the figures available at the time!!! We now hear talk on TV shows ?,,, of something more than 9 Billion ,,, yes €9, 000,000, 000 yes 9 zeros... I cannot count that on my fingers, even on a good day,,, How many fingers has Biffo ? ...... is that 2,000 for each adult or 20,000. I cant count that good in my head.... I will be a politician , and say about twenty euro each,,,, that does not sound so bad... 4 cents a day for a year !!! We can manage that... but the sums still wont add up again .. Arent mathematics wonderful ?? you can write anything down,,, but it comes out all wrong , again , and again !!!!!

Just looked up "billion" on the webb _in America = $1,000,000,000

in "Britain" could be 1 million, million - £1,000,000,000,000, in the "old" system

Q? how many million in one billion Euro ?????

I think our finance people are of two differing schools of thaught on this ???

Bye for now. looking forward to Easter ?? What are you giving up for the budget ???

Peter 47

buzz - 30/03/2009 13:40

Just looking now I see we are being asked to expect a drop of ten percent in our standard of living. Sure isnt that just a drop in the ocean for the super rich??? Mildly inconvenient for the middle class, a slap in the face and a cold "cant sleep at night" panic for the working class but what about those on the bread line? What about those who truly CANNOT afford to take a 10% hit? If someone is already desperate (and I mean really desperate people not just worrying about changing the car or selling off the pedigree pups), if they cannot FEED themselves or pay for fuel, how are THEY going to cope??

Peter 47 - 30/03/2009 21:29

Hi Buzz and all

From someone who is already below the breadline*, as regards a cost of living cut of 10%, is just another reason to read the riot act to the campainers who will be coming around looking for votes for the local elections any time soon.

They have already started the letterbox campain.

Is it OK for Government Parties to use Dail Postage to send out fliers for constituency candidates for local elections ????

That would be say 4 million postage stamps, ~ €0.55c = 2 million plus for fliers !! Why am I paying for this, why is it allowed, in this current financial situation ???

Will the ruling class come round the doors,,, only the new ones who have never called to my door before, most politicians have a hex mark on my gatepost. I have a habit of long delay tactics, and plenty of questions, for all prospective candidates,,, I make sure that anyone who realy wants my vote, must realy prove why I cannot be aforded a postal vote, as democraticaly allowed, without having to under go a cash up front medical examination, to prove that my wheelchair is not a figment of my imagination.

Do members of the Defence forces and Garda, have to pay for a medical to avail of postal vote ? NO, No, No. Thats not very democratic, is it ??

If I telephone the director of elections for my area to verify there will be a ramp available at my polling station, I can never get an answer,,,, after being left for 10 minutes waiting,,, I am told that it is supposed to be, acording to the list. But as it is my local primary school, the only ramp is away round the side, and no lighting,,, and the door locked. I usually end up with being lifted up the steps by a Garda and some volounteer member of the public,,, with great promises of making sure it never happens again.

I wish the present government would never happen again

You say a published cut of 10% !!! if the sums are right as usual that probabbly means 20%,, allowing for inflation over a couple of weeks,,, that seems to be the average.

Any chance of the "golden Circle" paying an extrta 10% of their fortune to RE FILL the coffers, which they have nearly emptied

I think not !!

regards to all who need a diet..... you can tighten your belts, and enjoy the cuts. Peter 47

Peter 47 - 31/03/2009 10:00

Latest piece of information says between 14 and 16 (billion) is the current defesit..... thats a difference of only 2 (2 billion) sounds like they are talking about €0.2c

Latest leak, says tax the people with second homes, that will be good, we all know that the second and third house is registered in a childs name so as to avoid tax,,,, children pay no tax, do they ???

Well I'm sure we will have some good info tomorrow (April 1 ) will someone please phone me I have won the lotto, just to give me a smile,,, I'm fed up getting e-mails from all around the world telling me I have won some foreign lotto , and picked as a lucky winner,,, if I send my Bank details and pin numbers,,,, yes they want my phone number and proof that I was born ???

We all live in hope !!

Roll on next week for the new fix all budget,,, I hear a rumour that the VAT on caviar is being reduced to zero, cigaretts will be €20 for 20 and champaign will be €10 euro just to level the pitch

There will also be an incentive for people waiting for operations for more than 90 days,,,, a €1 per day bonus will be paid to the individual, sent out by regular post, at 5 o'clock every day, for the first 30 days. After that you will be taken off the waiting list, and go back to the end of the queue.

The unemployment figures will also be re jigged, school leaving age will be 29 years of age, and retirement age adjusted to 40, this will be compulsory, and will look good for statistics in other EU states.

See U all @ the Soup Kithen. best regards Peter 47 Foot in mouth

SAMMI - 31/03/2009 10:05

Hi all. Hope ye are all well.

regards the t.v licence. we cannot get tv as we are in a bad area for reception, so we have to get sky. so on top of having to pay for t.v licence, who are not providing us with a service, we also have to pay sky € 35 per month for basic package, or else we'd have no stations. crazy, yes.

Chrissie how are you doing, how's your husband?


A single man i believe gets €180 a wk dole. Should a single man living at home get this much? correct me if i'm wrong.

hammer - 31/03/2009 10:49

ignore that 10% figure immediately.

there is no basis for calculating it.

if a person loses his/her job what effect will that have on their cost of living.

wages cuts approx 10% in private sector.

pension levy 7.5% public sector.

and this is b4 tax increases and various increases in excise duty allowing of course for a little deflation in goods & services but inflation in Govt services.

Keep it going everyone. It was great to hear that the Irish Public have increased their support for Fianna Fail in the last opinion poll.

Are we thick..............?

buzz - 31/03/2009 14:04

Sammi for what it is worth I believe that perhaps during the boom years it was an acceptable amount, but now considering how little money there is in the pot, and there are people recently unemployed who have to feed their families and pay mortgages, as well as those who cannot work because of disability, those who carry out carers duties and save the state millions in convalescence/nursing home fees etc etc then perhaps it should be lowered. I know that there was a time (thank God we are better off now) when my partner and I had only 200 a week between us to spend after rent and bills. Hardly seems fair that someone wont work and have the same disposable income. Then again, I think we need to be careful how we lump people in these days - a while ago there was pretty much no excuse for being on the dole, now a lot of people are claiming because they have been laid off and desperatley need the money so I wouldnt be as quick as I used to be to judge because I believe there are many deserving cases signing on at the moment. Regards

SAMMI - 01/04/2009 14:14

hi Buzz

I know those days well. 3 small children rent and bills. God how did we manage eh. Then we built our own house and, as is the natural order, things got better, nowhere near lavish, but better. Which is why i guess i'm so bitter with HSE at moment, what with the way my husband was treated (oops actually wasn't treated ha ha). I was in a car accident a few years ago, i wasn't busted up, but i was never right after it. It ruined my life. i also ran the gauntlet of doctor's etc.

Because the way they fumbled and bumbled with my husband, we've gone right back to square one. No jobs, no income, the worries and stress. the frustration of being caught up in a socio/political system where unless you have you business and your business contacts you are basically a peasant and that's how the governments treats us.

I say about the dole, because, NOT TALKING ABOUT GENUINE CASES now.

I know of single men who are living at home, have no overheads, and they get €204 per week. and they drink it. Now i know we won't be allocated €204 x2 plus allowance for 3 children. even though we were both working prior to husband's predicament.

buzz - 01/04/2009 15:09

Hi Sammi of course I think that is ludicrous that a single man can have over 200 disposable income, while at the same time a family with rent and food bills etc are expected to survive on not much more. Typical of this country though, hard work is NEVER rewarded. NO WORK IS! :(

Chrissie - 01/04/2009 17:11

Hi Sammi

after checking entitlements, if your Husband paid a full A1 social insurance contribution while working (which was known in the past as Class J contributions) God bless him being ill he is entitled to 204.30 for sickness benefit plus 135.60 for you as his spouse, each child under 16 years 26 euros. I cannot quite remember what class you said you paid contributions while you were working, but it was a low one, which is disregarded for his claim, because you worked lesser hours and have no payment from your Social welfare office in your own right.

If his class A1 ran out due to him being ill, you have a right to see your local clinic the Community Welfare Officer (CWO) to get supplementary welfare allowance. Bring all documents from your Doctor, Neurosurgeon Letters, bills, your Medical Card as Peter 47 has said in a post here, that is the essential card you need to bring there. If he is covered for this, when it all goes through and backdated, the (CWO) recovers Supplementary welfare allowance from the backdated cheque sent out by Social Welfare Deapartment. As regards help with bills bring them over as well-you are entitled to some help with bills and this cannot be recovered back from your Husband when his illness benefit is paid out.

As regards a single person getting 204.30 it's means tested, and takes into account what the other person living in the house gets, if that person is on any form of social welfare payment they get aound that much too, as Buzz pointed out here he was talking more or less about the long term unemployed, and not those who recently became unemployed.


Later tonight I will post my husband's condition, thanks for the concern yous have here.   

SAMMI - 01/04/2009 21:59

Hi Buzz

take a look at the post ' why our hospitals simply aren't working '. as a man who has also witnessed failing's on behalf of his family you may be interested in a reply, by a doctor to my post i put on it - re standard of care to patients and neglect, attitudes of doctors/consultants.

See what you think.

Anonymous - 02/04/2009 08:50

I think it depends Sammi on what you mean by 'living at home'. If a person has a home of their own they have extra overheads and I believe that there should be help with a mortgage just as there is with rent becuase the mortgage holder is tryign to buy a home of their own. Obviously then if a person, be it man or woman is in a couple and both partiues are unemployed then of course both should recieve unemployment benefit. If there are children I believe an allowance should be provided for their care also. Of course a single perosn who is living in their parens hoime is not going to have as much overheads as a person or couple paying a mortgage or rent or a person or couple with children trying to rent or buy. That's not to say a singleperson livign with their parens doesn't have expenses, they do of course as you cannot expect another adult (ie their parents) to support them but their overheads would not be as high.

Peter 47 - 02/04/2009 09:18

HI Sammi and al,

Did you get a rates book [allowances] ??

It dose not say,,,, BUT,,, if you were both working, you can both make seperate claims.....  [ whatever you call them ]

Payment in each case would be  Adult Payment Each,,,,say €204.oo  + 3 half childern each.  Never claim for an adult dependant if both adults have a PRSI number (old insurance nunmber).    I KNOW ITS ONLY €116.oo DIFFERENCE,,,, BUT IS SOME DIFFERENCE to any family budget !

Only in Ireland, could you have a claim for half a child,,,,, was'nt Solomon a wise old man ??

As was said before,,,, you ware never told what your entitlements are,,, or which scheme you should be claiming under...

Its ironic you may end up, like some other families with 2 adults and 6 half childern... better off living on state benefits,,, not to mention food parcels from St V de Paul.

Good weather for elections ?  ,,,, I think not,,,,  no party wants to be called to task by the public in the present climate  .....  and any party in power could be ruined by the present pile of manure.

Sorry mostly drivel today... ye can amuse yourselves by correctingly the bad spellings.

Cheers for now..................   Peter  47

Anonymous - 02/04/2009 11:48

More great advice Peter. Tell me tho', the part about never claiming for an adult dependant if both adults have a PRSI number - isn't every person in the country automatically issued with a PSI number at 16 or 18? Or does it maybe only apply if you are claiming perhaps for an adult child with a disability which prevents them from working? I heard on the news this mornign hat there has been a dramatic increase inthe last 3 months of people queueing for food parcels. So much for our achievements during the so called celtic tiger.

Chrissie - 02/04/2009 13:50

Hi to all here

Sorry I was late in telling yous about my Husband. Was on the phone looking for our entitlements/rights etc. Well as I said before thank God his condition was not life threathening.

His accident happened when he was heading off to work, he fell on black ice, he felt something snap in his leg. He couldn't get off the ground near our home and he phoned our Daughter on her mobile. I was in bed and never heard anything. She went out to him. Some man kindly helped him up and they both got him into our home. They rang 999 @ 9am they brought him out on a chair kind of thing with 2 wheels and our daughter went with him. I was so much in a deep sleep never even heard the sirens of the ambulance coming here, but when I got up I found note they left me. They got to hospital @ 9.20am. He was seen by a Triage Nurse. It was ordered by a doctor injection for pain, but it didn't last long. Doctor told him after looking at leg he would have to see othopaedic team. They are down at a clinic in another hospital. He was put outside to sit on chair in A&E waiting room. Our daughter held up his left leg because he had no power in it. She repeatedly looked for a wheelchair, but could not get one for him. It turned out that 18 people were there with falls from that bad ice that morning in the waiting room in A&E.

The Team arrived @ 9.30pm to see some patients besides him who fell. She checked his leg and ordered a backslab this is a plaster cast from below the top of his leg right down to end near his foot, but right behind where the knee bends no plaster, there was dressing wrapped around it several times, and that connected to plaster cast. Then she ordered an appointment made for Othopaedic Clinic @ 11 o'clock on 15th January. He left hospital @ 11 o'clock that night. Our other grown up children were also with him, when they all arrived home because I saw him in this cast, I thought well it will be probably only 6 weeks for him to get better.

Please bear with me, it's a long thing to say here this is my Husband's writing of it all. Then on the 7th he fell down our stairs and broke cast, he had to go back to A&E and wait his turn to be seen, they replaced backslab cast again.

At his appointment he was told he may have ruptured his Petella ligament and if he did he would need an operation. They made an appointment for an ultra sound scan the next day. He waited for scan results, when ortho doctor came back told him scan was inconclusive, he would need an MRI Scan. Our daughter was with him, then they told him taken you in straight away that was on Friday, he was let home for a few hours Saturday, Sunday.

Sometime on monday morning the Consultant came to him checked his leg, no need for M.R.I. you have a ruptured ligament, taking you down to theatre tomorrrow. He signed form that day for same. When brought down he told me wondered why he didn't get a premed. Well when brought, the Consultant asked him how are you doing-he said I am in a lot of pain well we'll sort that out. Please believe me he was told to bend over to give him an epidural. He said I cannot bend over, they helped him through the agony we was in he had to stay real still to get this. They then put up this Green big cloth so he could not see what they were doing. He heard the noise of the drill-it was like a nightmare for him, but he felt no pain. When they were finished some time later brought back to ward. He thought things were not so bad as they were, he had a full plaster cast on again. They asked him later when doing obs how are you? he got injections for pain, and injections in his stomack for stopping clots travelling.

Anyway the next day a porter brought him down to X Ray he asked porter why am I gettting X Ray? He said was just told to bring you up. When he got there he asked radiologist why am I being X Rayed they fixed my leg. He told him we have to check that the nuts and bolts are properly in place. I swear to God above we tell the truth he went into total shock.

He was there for a few days can't remember, neither can he, got bill from Hospital 2 days later near enough to 900 euros, and guess what am being told because he did not have a medical card then even though he has one now he has to pay the bill. When I said in previous post he's seeing Ortho doc per 2 weeks and physio told he would get extensive physiotheraphy. He's now there on appointment with my Daughter, seeing ortho doc not Consultant because they are so short of Orthopaedic Doctors he's telling the Doc he sees about the physio because after he sees Doc he waits 4.5 hours to see physio on hard chair he can barely bend his knee, but the most important thing he was told 2 weeks ago, this is your month for your window of opportunity. Given instructions how to try get back the nerve muscle surrounding the Petalla, it's like a long narrow bone that's connected to his knee bone and goes all the way up like a string right up to his thigh. He'll be home about 6.30pm this evening. the operation involved his knee cap taken out completely and then screwed together, all surrounding tissue reconnected, I'm saying this in the best possible way. He has not seen the Consultant since the day he operated on him.

He is asking Doctor he sees what's the point of physio seeing me for five minutes and gives me instructions in writing to do exercises at home. He's asking in a say mannerly way can this be done, and he'll see Ortho each 2 weeks. It's like a horror story to be treated like this. He's on pain killers Tylex, but they don't work for the pain. The exercises are very painful I can see it in his face when he does them. I know they cannot give him stronger meds would make him drowsy, he can't afford to fall again. He's trying so hard to regain muscles working again where the thigh to the knee is, and hopes to get back to work.

I am right now very depressed, was told never to have any stress, or avoid stress as much as I possibly can since my Brain Haemorrhage, though easier said than done, but my Neurosurgeon was brilliant to me, he is one in a million. My Hubbie's accident could not be avoided, I truly realise were lucky to have him here with us.

Sammi here will understand what I mean. Editor please post all I wrote here, didn't name any names, and on rate your hospital I foolishly thought when I went into it I could tell his illness there. Anyone reading this who knows about this sort of injury I would gratefully have their knowledge of it, and it's outcome, we're trying to be positive about him regaining strength of his leg.

So to you all after this long true story I'll say goodbye for now, and will let yous know how he progresses.


Thanks all for your caring and asking about him, it means a lot to us


SAMMI - 03/04/2009 09:32

Hi Chrissie

God, what can i say, you are going through so much what with yourself, your husband, and i think you mentioned your niece? as well on another post. Memory not the best. You didn't say if your husband slipped on a footpath? if you live in an estate area you can sue the council. Yes you can. If you have a one off house in country you may be able to claim off your own insurance. My advice to you is to go and see a solicitor who HAS EXPERIENCE with this kind of thing and get some independent advice.

Experience has taught me one thing over the years, think ahead, be prepared and take no chances. You don't know what lies down the road for hubby, he may never work again ( don't want to scare you but we have to think of worse case scenario) or he could be off for years. I was unwell for 7 years. 7 years is a long time to lose out of your life, and you know too well the money worries.

Please correct me if I'm wrong if someone knows better, I thought everyone was entitled to free treatment even if you don't have medical card.

Chrissie contact

Citizens Info Service.

Irish Patients Association

Your Local Fine Gael Td, yes, they can act for you, I did it, and they relish the chance to point finger at FF for another blunder.

Go to you own GP and ask about putting you through for Physio locally, if there is a provider he may be able to arrange a better set up.

God bless and I hope things start to get better soon.

We are but numbers on paper.

Anonymous - 03/04/2009 11:50

Hi Sammi, everyone is entitled to treatment in the public system(for all the good it is if you're on a waiting list but anyway) but that means you still have to pay for it - bed charges alone are something like over €100 per day. If you have health insurance, your insurer should take care of the bill

WAYFORWARD - 05/04/2009 18:57



Chrissie - 14/04/2009 17:29

Hi Sammi and all

Just letting yous know how my Husband's progress is. Since last post he's to see othopaedic doctor in two months time, see physio in 6 weeks time. Can barely bend his leg-he didn't get chance to ask about his condition because Doctor was called away to see another patient. Next day I rang up our GP he told me with his condition he will never be able to do his manual working again, he could only return to work if he were working at desk in an office job. He'll need one crutch now, don't know for how long yet. He's keeping in line with physio instructions. Our own GP cannot get a physiotherapist to come to our home we are so short of them here.

We have one grown up child living with us age 19. She cannot get any help because she's on a 2 day post leaving course and is not entitled to any labour, I've checked it all. Was told to get her leave college and she apply for Jobseekers Benefit. Would be entitled to this because he's sick, I'm on invalidity book. Husband getting 204.30 euros per week.

If our daughter goes to social welfare where we live she'll not get 204 euros jobseekers benefit, because as we all know our minister halved this benefit and will take effect from 1st May 2009.

Waiting on (CWO) to come over to our home because neither of us can make it over to the clinic where they sit.


Thanks for all your concern

Alo - 15/04/2009 22:16

Hello all,

All I can say June elections are on the way I hope all of you know what to do and what NOT to do . It may not cure the patents but a good kick up the backside on that day may give this government a bit of a setback for the government elections which may not be to long.


Peter 47 - 19/05/2009 10:36

Been out of touch, for some weeks now,,,,,,,,,

How are ye all surviving, these last few weeks...

I seem to have fallen off the list,,,  Or did everyone give up,, ????  waiting for the Spring bonus !!


Come back,,, all is forgiven,,,    Peter  47 

hammer - 19/05/2009 11:36

"Wages are frozen in the public service................"

.............except of course the annual increments.

..............except the bonuses

these people are absolute clowns, and yet 20% of the population still support them. Let`s just blow the YELLOWS out of the water in June !!

WAYFORWARD - 21/05/2009 20:13


I have recently learned that the HSE. is selling 32 acres of land for 18 million euro, to a developer / builder. This Land belongs to St Luke's hospital which specialises in all forms of CANCER and patients do not want to see it go.

buzz - 22/05/2009 12:26

wfwd that is an absolute disgrace. no doubt some of these developeers are affiliated with those who were partly responsible for bringing down the country. I ahve been in Lukes and it is in such a beautiful setting, people who are recovering or suffering from cancer should at least have these grounds available to them for the serenity and peace that they may bring, if not even to keep the grounds in case more funds are available in the future to build on to exisitng buildings and improve facilities and provide more beds.

hammer - 22/05/2009 12:37

it doesn`t matter what patients think.................

the HSE do what they like and are answerable to THEMSELVES !!

PS Good deal for developer !!

Peter 47 - 22/05/2009 16:13

This looks like a good deal all round...

Should be enough cash for this summer strand of the bi-annual bonuses.

I am surprised it is not being sold to a "middle man", who could make a few million, and then sold to the developer,,, with a few hundred  shares thrown in,,, for the BOYS,,,just to show no bad feelings.

Perhaps it will be a Public / Private Partnership,,, perhaps a new private Hospital, for those who can pay cash, from under the mattress..

The part I nearly forgot !!!

Will there be any VAT, or Property Tax, Stamp Duty, and do'nt forget Capital Gains Tax !!!,,,,

not deducted, but paid as a dividend, for develpoing "waste land", which no one is using....

 as happened in Ardee Co Louth,,, the developer, was forced to sell back land to the NEHB [old HSE], by not commencing the development within 12 months.....

Cheerws for now  ______   Peter  47

brandy - 24/05/2009 20:24

32 acres in Rathgar?  You betcha they'll sell of the most lucrative pieces of land in the country; wouldn't we all like to know who 'knows' the developer....wonder if he/she owes money already....we'll never be given that info of course....we'll have to wait 'till the press gets usual....don't ya just love all politicians??

SAMMI - 26/05/2009 18:52

Hi guys

i see the country still stands as normal, ha sarcasm there, cos we knno it's far from normal as the LUNATICS HAVE TAKEN OVER THE ASYLUM AND HAVE BEEN RUNNING IT for years.

But where are the people to take to the streets and revolt by the thousand to say enough is enough?

As usual, nowhere to be seen.

That depresses me more than the system.

Peter 47 - 26/05/2009 21:20

Hello Sammi ! Good to have you back

The inmates are all around,,, they will be coming to your front door in the next few days,,, be sure to,ask them directly, how much per day you personally are paying to recoup the millions, re allocated from the "national purse !!! to repay the banks who are still well in the black.

There will be some ingenious excuses,,, I have had a few already,,, but no one can tell what th overall debt will turn out to be !!

None of the current idiots should be returned to office, Nationally, locally or European,,, this is the only way change will be brought about. There is still a massive waste of OUR MONEY, on a daily basis.

One of the conditions for to qualify for a "bonus", is how many staff are under you directly,,, so we can realise that there are more than 60% more clerical staff, now, than before the HSE, took over.

They simply gave every one an assistant, or sometimes two,,, this has developed into a situation where medical personnel are not replaced, on retirement, or maternity leave,or on holiday, and so medical staff are overworked, as well as having a smaller budget to work to.

In some areas, Physio, and Ocupational Therapists, are at 50%, because of this.

Unions will not stand for this, they will refuse to work, where patients are left at risk, by bad managment.

This must be the starting point,,, if responsible people are in charge of our monies, we have a small chance of getting fair play.

Vote YES,, to Change... Peter 47 [ Non Party ]

buzz - 11/06/2009 13:42

surprise surprise...

hammer - 11/06/2009 17:37

these are the only gob****** in the World that believe there is confidence in  the Government after 76% of the electorate voted against them.

The Greens are absolutely useless and will all be gone next election. They can then disband like the PD`s.

They crave power and they actually believe what they are doing is right. Cry

FG and Labour should say absolutely nothing for the next 5 months or so and let the gob***** introduce

1. reduction in minimum wage 2. taxation of childrens allowance 3. property tax 4. further cuts in education & health 5. increased levies 6. cuts in employment levels in public service 7. further bad debt loans !! to Anglo Irish Bank

after these happen there will be a revolution led by the opposition

sceptical - 14/06/2009 00:03

Has it occurred to anyone that the culture of secrecy employed by FF was learned from their masters in the Church?

What details do we have about the bonuses paid to the HSE, top civil servants, and bankers.

I heard a FF person talking today about the SALARY INCREASES awarded to Anglo Irish bank employees in September last year. He said they were "legally obliged to honour them"!

All we hear is "legal obligations" when Seanie Fitzpatrick and fellow directors have their loans wiped out at our expense. How many of them have been prosecuted for fraud? None.

How many TDs have given up their 500,000 entitlement for a second house if they live out of Dublin? How many apart from Mary O'Rourke have given up the pensions they draw along with their TD salaries? WHAT do we really know about the huge increases FF awarded to themselves and their supporters at all levels, Senate, Dail and councils when times were good? NOTHING. Nothing because that would mean we had a system of transparent and accountable parliamentary democracy.

How many of the 'people' knew that Michael Woods and Bertie Ahern were conspiring to make us pay for the atrocities perpetrated by the religious?

Even the Attorney General didn't know. Even the department of Finance were EXCLUDED from the secret negotiations between Michael Woods and two nuns.

Note how Cowan and his cronies were telling us after the Ryan report that they could not "for legal reasons" renegotiate the terms that Woods and Ahern had agreed! Note how the tune has changed since they got a kicking in the local and European elections.


Anonymous - 23/06/2009 13:53

Hi Brandy, yes that was apparently "leaked" (accidentally on purpose) to 'soften us up' for when they bring it in in the December budget.

hammer - 23/06/2009 15:50

It hasn`t been leaked. It`s been on the agenda all along. The Govt spinners will be out the day Bord Snip reports that welfare will be cut.

Interesting comments yesterday on the Radio. If the Govt stopped paying civil & public servants, and pensions to retired public servants then and only then would the exchequer finances be balanced.

this country is in a very deep hole

( the above doesn`t take the 11billion paid to the 3 banks with a further 3 billion likely )

As i said previously 1 billion would give me a salary of €40,000 for 25,000 years !!!!!!

WAYFORWARD - 23/06/2009 20:58


Todays breaking news is an example. The H.S.E are able to award themselves bonus bonanza? Yet a gross error was made in a deficit for a childrens hospital pacing many children at risk. The deficit is 10 million euro. Now explain to me how can bonuses be awarded when the nations health service is in such a bad state of affair. And of course who ends up paying with there health the general public from infants to senior citizen age. This goverment should go out gracefully and resign & a general election called for A.S.A.P. What can be gained by a new goverment? I say it cannot get worse than we ae already in. I would like to know the posters for any election who pays the bill for such as an intended person in the running for a seat for their make up  lets FACE IT these people have to look the part in the posters, the staff & transport for hanging the poster campaign. , when the count is finished , who pays for th removal of the posters from various sites before the deadline of being fined ,


Chrissie - 24/06/2009 14:39

I believe right now they our FF are driving persons to despair. Just heard on our radio, the one o'clock news that many many unemployed are waiting weeks and weeks for welfare payments, waiting weeks and weeks for to see the (CWO) community Welfare Officer to get Social Welfare Cheque entitlements. Entitlements they are entitled to but not many to man this system-it's like them stepping back to 50 years or so before our Free State made social welfare payments legal to unemployed and those who were sick.

In such an over unemployed Ireland Brian Cowan is checking out why the CWOs are not there, on holidays, out sick, nobody to replace them!! It was said on news that if a Chipper, Shop had staff out sick or on holidays replacement would be filled. If we all ask ourselves why didn't Brian Cowan see this coming? What are all those to do to live on for weeks, months on end to live only on fresh air? Time after time he's seen nothing about to happen, which he should have seen happen with all our unemployment.

My Husband has been sick since January no payment yet from (CW0) despite him looking for his entitlements. Our clinic is only open mornings Monday-Friday 10-12 am. Friday emergencies only.

No doubt he will pay a Bonus to those who draft up reasons why this is occuring. In areas of Dublin there are Supervisors who run the (CWOs) and oh nobody saw this coming!!

I have an inner inclination that our different politicians do read what's written on We're barely into this recession and look what's happening. It's not a recession, now it's becoming a depression of how everyone can look after their own in our monetary climate change.


They are now looking into (CWOs) the need of more of them!!    

Peter 47 - 24/06/2009 19:56

Hello  Chrissie,  and all

It may be news to some,,,, but ,,,there are mostly, in most areas,,,


There could be 3 or 4 deputy CWO's in any "Area" [HSE.NW]

and up to 4 assistants in each area..

For example, in the smallest County [ Louth Community Care],,, there is possibly 4 deputies, and each with a couple of assistants..

Other staff areas within each County, could include, a similar number in "statistics",,, eg,,,  ' Louth Disability database'

Now, you'd think, that after an initial survey,,, the data base could be easily maintained,,, how dificult is adding on new names, of people registered by their GP, as having a disability,,,,  and scratching from the list, those who are gone to their reward.

Well in Kells, I am told, there is someone with overall responsibility, for the HSE.NE Area....  and in Dundalk there is a TEAM, who cover County Louth.

They have a fine office block,,, and at least 5 parking spaces all mostly full

There is I am almost sure, a parralell set of people, doing a duplicate job ,,,,

Two sets of people, involved in "Disability" which has two departments [perhaps more] ... one is 'Physical & Sensory',,, the other ' Learning, Hidden, and Others

Now you may think, that this information, would be valuable to the people "working"  [employed] in the CWO departments,,,,,  No such luck,,,   this information on individual disabilities, is compleetly confidential to each individual disabled person.

Supposedly,,, the two groups of computers cannot talk to each other,,,

AND, under Data Protection,,, well , how could anyone think of such collaboration, between departments,,, Totally impossible !!   Thank You...

Knowing all ,this, can one asume that the total staff, in Louth Hralth Care [ Non Medical]  could be  15 + 10 + 10 = 35..........  ??

We have not even started,,, Take the Social Worker Network,,, Possibly 2 Chief Social workers for the County, and maybe 3 "others",,, for the whole County,,,

Then there are only one Community Physiotherapist, that I know off [not hospital],,, then there is Occupational Therapists,,,  A total of one at maximum,,, and another one on Maternity leave,,, and no vacancies filled, or sick or matermaty leave, substituted, as the " Budget", cannot stretch

Both Community, Physios' and Occupational Therapists,, have to look after their own paperwork ..... severely understaffed here...

There is a large complex of buildings, in Ardee, Co Louth,,,

It is mostly the Vacant wards of "St Bridgids"  Psyciatric Hospital,,,,,

I visited there once, about 7 year ago,,, there was a handful of medical staff, running the hospital,,,,There are only a few patients, not treated in "the Community" now.     The other staff are a couple of office workers, plus catering, and janatorial.

What do you know  ???  I had reason to re visit St Bridgids, some months ago,  and was surprised at the number of "new" car registrations wer in the staff car park.     Dozens !!!

Well I asked one of the cleaners,, she said,,, they are all the new people who got jobs with the H S E.   The place is crowded with desks,,,   sure they were months connecting them computer things up for each desk,,, and dozens of phones, a couple for each desk,,,, I did not get a guess, as to the number of new staff, but was told,,, we are probabbly on the way out [cleaners] same as they done everywhere else [HSE] private contractors.... Friends of Frienda...

Can the "Freedom of Information Act"  be used to have a comparison with staff numbers, before and after, the HSE,,, How many EXTRA Managers, and GROUP LEADERS, are there now,,,, all getting BONUSES ???????

Well it may be so many less off the DOLE,    but,,, ARE THEY DOING PRODUCTIVE WORK,   or are they PREVENTING, new staffing levels, where they are NEEDED   ?????

Any wonder there are no "CARE WORKERS"   when ABUSE  is reported !!!

ENOUGH  !!!     or    NOT  ENOUGH ???

P S. What was the bonus criteria for those working on the RYAN REPORT ?

Peter  47

sceptical - 25/06/2009 15:26

Brandy Posted: 22/06/2009 18:19

sceptical,You serious?  What's that about €500,000 for TDs....outside Dublin?Please explain.....would love that info if you can post it !


Hi Brandy

Posted a long, detailed reply to you on 23 June. That has apparently not been blocked! Don't know why. It is all on public record. Either Irish Independent or Irish Times. Try again.

YES they have 'entitlement' of 500,000 (according to John Drennan, Sunday Indo). They can also claim for ancillary expenses if the 2nd house is purchased during their term of office. These include lawyer and auctioneer fees. They can also claim for maintenance - light, heating, repairs, insurance etc.

And we were all talking about the UK expense fraudsters! Small fry compared to our lot.

I included details of the salaries + pensions (claimed by sitting TDs) + long-term bonus payments + (of course) their generous expenses.

The most lucrative package (according to the Indo) is claimed by Bertie Ahern (pension 164,000 Euro) + TD salary + long term bonus (approx 7,000 Euro) + expenses + a state car + a newly refurbished office.

The qualification period for ministerial pensions is TWO years in office and is payable from the age of 55. Ministers and minister of state also avail of generous severance payments if they are demoted after only TWO years' service. TDs and senators also avail of a raft of unvouched expenses and allowances administered by various departments.

Members can claim a range of payments without receipts, mileage allowances while using public transport, and daily overnight costs of €139 without necessarily having incurred any outlay. The expenses bill for TDs and senators is estimated at over €40m this year.


Also pointed out that Michael Woods (of the two nuns, tea and buns 'agreement') benefitted from a 'special' change to the law which allowed him to claim unpaid back-dated pension 'entitlements' and that he has also claimed 40,000 Euro in expenses despite living close to the Dail.

All the above was published by the Sunday Independent - follow link. None of it has been denied by government.

hammer - 29/06/2009 13:38


As you are quite dilligent can you check out the process where you & 1 start our own politican party.

The party name will be the Revolution Party as opposed to Republican Party

Membership is openSmile now

Chrissie - 01/07/2009 18:44

Hammer agree with your posting - I think we need people to run our Country the right way and not shimmy shammering on proposols put forward publicly then they change minds like taxing childrens allowance on our forthcoming December Budget stated by Brian Cowan and switch to means testing it.

Then weeks after April they decide to declare as was seen on our TV that now Mary Hanafin is arranging a way on means testing 2.5 billion euro paid out in childrens allowance. She wouldn't address questions as to how this means testing will be done. Another bonus on the way for whoever checks this for her. Isn't it great to have a job like that?

She also wouldn't address questions put to her on why persons had to wait to see (CWOs) why they were out sick, on holidays, no replacement (CWOs)

I learned there was legal aspect that childrens allowance can never be taxed that's why they changed their minds and reverted to means testing.

Isn't our government just wonderful - Nothing like the Island of Ireland


hammer - 06/07/2009 12:31

The Greens have once chance to survive. They don`t have the balls.

As for the €200 tax on holiday homes. This is another €200 that joe public needs to find. Our minister of wealth saw nothing wrong with having a blow dry that cost $400 on a visit to Florida...........

Peter 47 - 17/07/2009 00:45


We seem to have run out of slagging the "Bonuses for People in Power"

So here goes with my latest Household Budget Chringe !

My Current income is, Invalidity Pension €209.80 per week,

Thats an annual total of €11,119.40

My "CUTS " this year so far as follows :

Christmas Bonus €209.80

5% An Bord Snip €85.48 per week

Prescription Charges, 12 items @ €5.00 each

13 times a year, €786 at least

That leaves a total of €,538.12 per year at least for meds.

That leaves a whoping €183.70 per week

Or ............................ €26.24 per day.

When I allow for €76.00 Rent; €9.00 Refuse; €20.00 Phone; €20.00 ESB; €30.00 Gas; .... I'm left with €32.70 to cover,,, Food; Housekeeping; medical; travle; Clothing; Entertainment and "Socialising" ???

I am a 62 year old man, part time in a wheelchair, with :

Diabetis; Arthritis; Asthma; Hay fever; Fibromyalgia; High Cholesterol; Right Leg Amputation, failing Eyesight, and generally Failing Health.

Is there any chance at all, that I would get a part time job, as an assistant, to an assistant,,, sonewhere in the HSE ?? [ I need a BONUS soon ]

I may also be "taxed" on my Free TV License, and maybe even loose my Medical Card. !!!

Looking forward to a mild winter !! Peter 47

Chrissie - 22/09/2009 21:43

Hi Peter 47 + everyone

Have not been posting for awhile - how are things going? In our case my invalidity pension + his sickness benefit total him €204.30 me €209.80 = €414.40 p.w. We waited and waited to be called to CWO he told us we were €70 over the limit for any help from the Clinic. We cannot get the care package (Free Phone Rental+TV Licence+some units of electricity or gas) He told us there maybe "exceptional needs entitlement" if our cooker, washing machine totally breaks down, he'll give a litttle something towards one household neccessity. Rang up Citizens Information to find out our rights, got phone call back from them, they checked same - (we are over the limit) Our Eldest son is helping us with our mortgage, while he and his wife pay their mortgage, plus to boot 3 children to look after. I hope and pray that they keep their jobs, health, and the health of their children - our grandchildren.

The be all and end all, like so many not enough coming into the Pot and not enough to pay out for our Housing needs - not luxuries. Yet the banks were bailed out, bonuses paid from everything to the Ryan Report - McCarthy report, CSO Reports. Can you think of any more. Oh yes, the IMO report, The INO Report, please add on more Lists of bonuses upon bonuses in our now Current Economic Climate.

The only entitlement we got was Medical Card, could not get back refund of 2 months payments for our medication Total paid €200 under Drugs Payment Scheme, while we were waiting on long List to receive Medical Card even though he was not working, not able to work.

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